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2009 Toyota Camry

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  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    Nissan (as you might expect) claims less warranty repairs costs on the many CVT cars they make compared to what they used to. The continued worship of the almighty MPG will mean that most (if not all) mfgrs. will need to develop their own CVTs to remain competitive . The conventional AT should become a thing of the past particularily on sedans like this. While the CVT is more dependent on those infamous DBW/computer decisions, it also means for substantially less mechanical losses (slippage), more simplicity, and (sooner or later) less repair costs vs. the usual multi speed AT. Right now there is a very limited market for CVT repairs primarily because Nissan is preferring to replace them as opposed to repair them. I have no doubt that they are cheaper to produce, but believe that the primary motivations for them have to be their relative efficiency.
  • notmybmwnotmybmw Posts: 101
    Hi, Mark.

    Do you know where I can download a copy of this infamous TSB?

    Thanks, buddy!

    Ciao,
    Mike
  • notmybmwnotmybmw Posts: 101
    Thanks, Mark.

    I'm gonna love waving this hard copy of the TSB in my dealer's face tomorrow.
    He said your number was all wrong and that it referenced some bulletin from a "third party"

    He's nuts.......and I'm gonna tell his dealership owner!

    These uppity service managers need some "come uppance"!!

    Thanks again!
    Scotty
  • Thanks for the explanation. I believe you are right. I have not driven a CVT, but from what I have read in auto magazines I think I still like the old transmissions better.

    Fred.
  • mcdawggmcdawgg Posts: 1,668
    Glad I could help. Please let us know how it goes.
  • notmybmwnotmybmw Posts: 101
    Does anyone out there have access to ANY Toyota Canada Technical Service Bulletins? (TSBs?)

    I'm trying to get my hands on the Enhancement to Shifting Performance and Smoothness TSB that pertains to the 2007, 2008 and 2009 CANADIAN Camry. This TSB applies to Camry LE models with 5 speed automatic transmissions. I believe the American version of this TSB is the 0068-08.

    I had my dealer perform the software upgrade defined in the bulletin today, but the service manager is being pissy about even showing me a copy of the Canadian TSB, never mind giving me a copy of it. This, even though I was the one who informed him that the TSB even existed....which they didn't know last week, before I went in. (NOTE: Anyone who's purchased an 07, 08, or 09 Camry LE from Performance Toyota in the Niagara Region, in Ontario Canada, can now go in to the service department, with the confidence that Performance will NOW know what you're talking about if you tell them you want the Engine Control Module (ECM) TSB for Enhanced Shifting performed on your car.)

    However, make sure they do the required test/training drive (which they didn't do on mine) AND affix the Authorized Modification Label under the hood, as required by Toyota. (They didn't even have the stickers on hand.....but I advised them that this is a necessity, so they're ordering them now.)

    So, any Canadian TSB sources out there?
    Thanks to all,
    Scotty.
  • notmybmwnotmybmw Posts: 101
    Sorry, I forgot to mention in my previous post that after having had the "shifting" TSB performed on my 07 Camry LE, it does seem to be a little peppier around town, but I've not yet had a chance to take it out for a highway run to see if the flipping and flopping of tranny speeds still occurs at cruising speeds, as it used to.....or if the transmission still hunts for a gear when re-accelerating after having slowed down on a ramp, etc.
    The dealer was supposed to put the car "through its paces" under a prescribed regimine of gear changes and speed levels......but he said he "didn't have time for that". Nice. This is my dealer in St. Catharines, Performance Toyota. Can you tell they're the only Toyota dealer in town?
    My plan is to appeal to a dealer principal to have the required test drive performed. I'll keep you posted (so to speak.)

    By the way, they referred to this TSB as the 2650.....which I'm not at all confident is the correct TSB number.

    Scotty
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    When the TSB was done it is highly likely that the engine and transaxle control parameters that were "learned", adjusted, over the duration you previously drove the car were discarded in favor of restoring the factory original "default" (engineer's "best guess"), or a new default parameter set more in line with the TSB changes.

    In any case depending on the engine and transaxle component wear level, servomotor calibration, and sensor tolerance drift, etc, it may take several drive cycles, factory prescribed, precisely controlled drive cycles, to even bring the "learned" control parameters back into the ballpark, OBDII emissions MIL cleared. Since you are not very likely to rigidly adhere to the factory prescribed drive cycle you should not expect 2 or 3 of YOUR drive cycles to accomplish the task.

    Then it might take as much as 500 miles to bring the parameters back to the level of accuracy they were just prior to the TSB application.

    So the dealer not being willing to put the car "through its paces" was a perfectly reasonable decision. It probably wouldn't have helped matters absent your needing to immediately complete/pass an emissions test.

    You probably will not know if the TSB even fixed anything until that ~500 miles has gone by.
  • notmybmwnotmybmw Posts: 101
    Hi, wwest.

    Thanks for your response. I understand what you're saying about the emissions specs and so on, but it's not the dealer's "prerogative" to decide whether or not they'll perform the test drive........it's part of the directive included in the TSB:
    "3. Start the engine and warm it up to normal operating temperature before test driving.
    4. Test drive the vehicle to confirm proper vehicle operation and ECM (PCM) initial learning.
    Refer to TIS:
    2007 / 2008 / 2009 model year Camry Repair Manual,Drivetrain – Automatic
    Transmission/Transaxle – “U250E Automatic Transaxle: Automatic Transaxle System: Road Test”

    If this procedure is not followed, to the letter, then the TSB has not been performed....just like the labeling requirement. The dealer MUST attach the Authorized Modification Label, otherwise he has not completed the TSB. (If this were an owner-performed procedure, you can well imagine that any warranty factor would be voided if the factory issued TSB were not followed to the letter; it shouldn't be any different for the dealer.....especially since they are being PAID by head office to do this.)

    Otherwise, why waste everyone's time (and credibility) by even including the test drive procedure/description in the fix?
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    "The dealer was supposed to put the car "through its paces" under a prescribed regimine of gear changes and speed levels...."

    My bad.

    I read the above as meaning using the drive cycle technique/regimine to clear the MIL. Yes, the dealer should be required to test drive the vehicle to verify a correct level of performance in accordance with the TSB.
  • exlerexler Posts: 129
    What kind of mileage to expect out of Bridgestone Turanza EL 400 tires in mostly city driving--my at 11K look one-half worn--anyone else had experience with this tire?
  • waltchanwaltchan Posts: 123
    If you live in the southwest area of the United States, you should test-drive both the USA-made Camry and Japanese-made Camry at the same time to compare fit-and-finish qualities. Both the salesman and I were surprised to see that the seats in the Japanese-made Camry felt more stiffer and supportive, wind noise is less, doors closing are quieter, fewer plastic creak interior noise, and smoother running engine that gives 1% better acceleration time. Although an average person will not notice any difference at all, a picky person can tell the difference very easily. We are both picky and eye-alert.

    I drove home tonight with an extremely-rare Japanese-made 2009 Camry LE I4 auto. Everything was put together well. While most of the Japanese-made Camrys are found in higher trim-levels, having a Japanese-made basic Camry LE I4 auto with no option is something that is really impossible to get. The dealer I bought from charged me $1,000 more from the USA-made one due to its rarity, and they only get one in shipment every month. :surprise:

    According to the Toyota dealer I spoke with, only 1% of 2009 Camry productions (excluding hybrids) are Made in Japan, and are strictly sold only in California, Arizona, and Nevada. Because of its low production number, they tend to be build more slowly and carefully. The ones build from Japan come with Michelin tires as standard instead of Bridgestone.

    2009 could mark as the final-year for Japanese-made Camry for the North American market as the 2.4L AZ engine will be replaced with a totally-new 2.5L AR engine next year in spring 2009 for 2010 model. The AZ engine was designed in Japan, but the new AR engine was designed in USA.
  • lucky_777lucky_777 Posts: 205
    wow... 1% better acceleration time. Hope it's really made a difference for you. Did you pay extra for "J" in the VIN? I've been reading that Japanese made cars use lower quality steel that American made ones. Personally, I don't believe there is any difference in quality between country of assembly for Camry at this point of production life cycle. It is all subjective, you can easily find people to like one over another.
  • mcdawggmcdawgg Posts: 1,668
    In my experience, I've had a Rav that was made in Japan that had many build quality issues. None were real problems that made the car undriveable, just annoying. Compare that with the Toyotas I have had that were built in the US and Canada, and my experience is that the US/Canada ones have had less trouble than Japan built. This includes a Kentucky-built Camry. Just giving another side of the story. :)
  • waltchanwaltchan Posts: 123
    While all RAV4s are made in Japan, I don't think they were built slowly and carefully because of large production quantities and demand. Same thing as for USA. The early 2007 Camrys had tons of problems due to rush making, especially at the Subaru Lafayette plant in Indiana. It all depends, really. The Camry is an exception. But, historically, the Japanese-made ones tend to be slightly higher quality than USA-made ones. Take at look at the Lexus, Acura, and Infiniti, and compare them to Cadillac and Lincoln.
  • waltchanwaltchan Posts: 123
    Wow, lower quality steel. I think that's better news for me. It lowers the curb weight of the car a little, so I get slightly better MPG. :)
  • lucky_777lucky_777 Posts: 205
    It also might explain 1% faster acceleration. :shades:
  • Toyota OEM tires tend to get low mileage because they want both good traction and low road noise when people test drive them.

    See my profile: 2009 Camry V-6 LE with under 5000 miles and the tires are the same as yours with a 260 Tread Wear rating. My tires are already starting to show (even) wear but the great gas mileage may pay for it.. My first oil change became due before the six months at 3,800 miles so the tires were not rotated.

    BAD OEM TIRES are the one problem you get with Lexus/Toyota. Go to ConsumerReports.org to find what tires to put on your car. Usually Michellein but there is a new Bridgestone series that has a tread wear rating over 600. Your tires probably have a the same 260 tread wear rating mine do. I don't understand why Toyota puts low mileage tires on all its vehicles ........... probably because they have great traction and no road noise.

    THE GOOD NEWS: Here is the reliability you can expect from your vehicle based on the experience of my family:

    In over a million miles:

    All maintenance done at the dealer but not on their scale - we go by the owners manual and double the oil and air filter changes. My family has bought Toyota and Lexus ONLY with V-6 or V-8 engines since 1991: 1991 LS400 V-8 180,000 miles, 1992 4wd Pickup V-6 that went 150,000 with no repairs other than brake pads, 1997 Camry LE V6 with 200,000 before giving it as a gift to a nephew, 1999 Solara V-6,that went 90,000 before being traded in, a 2002 Avalon V-6 - sold to a fried when it had 89,000 miles - he has gone to 200,000 mile with no repairs, Wife's 2002 Lexus ES 300 and my 2009 Camry V-6.

    .

    Other than brake pads: NO REPAIRS. WI fe's LS400 battery went out in two years. Other than that, you almost feel cheated when your warranty wears out and you have had no warranty claims. I can tell I will have to replace my tires at about 25,000 miles. Read the Lexus forums; they all have the tire wear problem. The answer is there is no answer but after replacing one set of tires, you will be happy with your purchase of the Camry.

    Best wishes.

    Eight (8) vehicles. They never break down
  • mzhangmzhang Posts: 2
    I am looking for a 2009 Camry CE auto with no options. I am in TX. The quotes I got from the dealers range from $18,750 to $19,500. I think the price is too high. In CA, $17,500 can get an LE. What are the good prices for the model that you guys got in TX? And from which dealer? Thanks.
  • waltchanwaltchan Posts: 123
    Another possibility is to wait for Toyota dealer ads coming on Saturday? What city are you in? I have heard stories of buyers flying from Texas to Los Angeles to buy a Camry LE for $17,500, and then drive it back home to Texas happily. In California, I used to see 2009 Camry CE auto going for only $15,999 and LE for $16,999, but not anymore lately. But it's possible these prices can return after January 2009 when the new 2010 Camry hit the showroom floor.
  • exlerexler Posts: 129
    Right on about that 260 rating--checked another LE in town that had Michelin tires rated 440--so if you can get a Camry with Michelins it might be a good thought--I had some Michelins on a 95 Camry and they lasted about 37K----on a 02 Camry I had Bridgestones that lasted about 23K---Thanks
  • waltchanwaltchan Posts: 123
    This is absolutely the perfect time (if you are extremely lucky) right now to buy a 2009 Japanese-made Camry. For 2009, Toyota will only produce less than 5,000 vehicles from Japan (versus 100,000 in 2007), and will be sold only in the west-coast of United States (California, Arizona, Nevada, Washington, Oregon, Alaska, and Hawaii). This is the lowest amount of Japanese imports since the beginning of 1983. Because Toyota Japan will only need to build 5,000 Camrys for the US market this year, each Camry made will be assembled at a much slower pace than normal, making the build quality and fit-and-finish quality go extremely, ultra-high. I drove home happily with a extremely rare, basic Japanese-made 2009 Camry LE auto with no option. I have never seen a vehicle so well-made and perfect in my entire life. Everything is quiet, no squeaks or rattles, and is similar to a Lexus. I feel like I stole it from the dealer, by not paying more enough, even though the dealer forced me to pay $1,000 more due to its rarity. Most of the Japanese-made Camrys are in higher trim levels, but driving home with the cheapest Japanese-made Camry is impossible to get. The fit-and-finish quality is something I have not seen for more than twenty years from Japan since the 80s. Go test drive and see for yourself (if you live in California, Arizona, Nevada, Washington, Oregon, Alaska, or Hawaii).

    Because only less than 5,000 Made in Japan 2009 Camrys will be produced this year, we probably will not get enough owners to comment their vehicles but me. :)
  • kiawahkiawah Posts: 3,666
    What a great salesman....that is marketing at its' finest..........
  • I'm thinking of buying an '09 Camry with a manual transmission. This will be my first new car (second I owned, the first being a used Saturn SL). I went to the dealer last night and took a test drive. The car had 4 miles on it and was still covered in protective plastic from shipping. When I got back to the dealership after the test drive, there was a burning smell and some smoke coming out from under the hood. Is this just parts wearing in/paint burning off, or should this concern me. The engine also sounded a little rougher than I would expect from a new car. My brother's girlfriend just bought one, and he said when he sits in it he can't tell if the engine is on or not and that this was definitely not as smooth. Is that normal? I'm having a very difficult time deciding on this car or a different sedan.

    Thanks for your input.
  • waltchanwaltchan Posts: 123
    Absolutely normal. This smell is coming from the serpentine belt that requires breaking in for the first 100 miles.
  • Would this cause the engine vibration as well?
  • waltchanwaltchan Posts: 123
    No, it should not vibrate. Try another car. Do you mean to say that the engine vibrates on idle or steering wheel vibrates on idle? My Japanese-made Camry runs very quiet like a feather. When I test drove two different-made Camrys at the dealer lot, the Japanese-made one runs 5% quieter than the USA-made, although they are almost the same.
  • lucky_777lucky_777 Posts: 205
    waltchan,

    Can you share with us how you measured your car running 5% quieter and 1% faster comparing to American made Camrys? How many American made Camrys did you measure for your comparison? My 2009 LE American made and runs very quiet and reasonably fast for I4.
  • kiawahkiawah Posts: 3,666
    ohh lucky, let him go.

    If he wants to pay a 1K premium, because his vehicle came down the Japanese assembly line vs. American, and he believes the vehicle is better, quieter, faster, smoother, and worth more on trade in.......don't bust his bubble.

    He's rationalized spending the extra bucks. Salesman is still counting his commission.
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