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Geo Metro Tire and Wheel Questions

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Comments

  • geoman2geoman2 Posts: 7
    so Butch22...Don't tell me about my mistakes,I have not made any but you have made plenty!
    1.Not finding 12"tires on the internet or even looking on the internet...(not too smart on your part!)
    2.Doing all those unnecessary conversions and all that work...Not too smart!
    3.trying to tell me about the "convertibles"having 13 inch tires when the discussion was about 91-94 hatchbacks...NOT convertibles which are still 12",not 13"!Very unsmart!
    4.believing that parts stores will give you the correct fit simply because their computer says so...triply unsmart!!!
    5.and not admitting or correcting your mistakes...quadruple unsmart!!!!!!!!!
  • geoman2geoman2 Posts: 7
    also,butch22,I have tried the susuki wheels on my 92 Geo metro hatchback,I believe the salvage yard originally said that the 95 13" wheels would fit.Although i'm not sure of the year anymore.Well,those wheels,...the same ones i'm sure YOU are talking about,did fit and matched up "almost"perfectly!The key was "almost!"
    Again,the holes matched to the 92 Geo's studs,but as I told you before...there was too much play between the stud and the hole in the 13" susuki wheel making it somewhat unsafe.So,i'm calling you a liar to your face!
    And this you can add to all your other mistakes!
  • My dear Geoman2. I will list the specific steps and part numbers to clarify what I was trying to explain in my earlier post. If you could read the entire thing I am sure you will see that I have considered how to completely and safely accomplish the proper swap of 13 inch geo wheels on to a geo that came standard with the 12 inch wheels. . . . The 13 inch wheels that come standard on a Geo convertible will (and do) properly and exactly fit a geo hatchback that came with the 12 inch wheels IF YOU DO THE FOLLOWING.

    Step 1 - Remove the front hubs and the rear drums.
    Step 2 - Remove the studs. Some people call wheel studs "lugs." (Press or knock them out.)
    Step 3 - Purchase the studs that fit the 13 inch wheels - There are two different lengths to fit the front and the rear. AutoZone.com lists the following parts - Front- Dorman/wheel stud part number 610-334.1 and Rear- Dorman/Wheel stud part number 610.336.1. These are the correct diameter and length to properly fit the geo convertible 13 inch wheels. They are size M12-1.25 thread.
    Step 4 - carefully drill the holes in the hubs and drums to a larger size to accept the larger wheel studs. If you don't have the correct equipment like a drill press and proper size drill bits then go to a machine shop and have the holes enlarged professionally.
    Step 5 - press the larger studs into the holes in the hubs and drums.
    Step 6 - Purchase the correct wheel nuts. (Some people call them "lug nuts.") Autozone.com lists them as Dorman/Wheel Nut part number 611.064.1 (same size front and rear.)
    Step 7 - reinstall the front hubs and rear drums.
    Step 8 - install the 13 inch geo convertible wheels on the new larger studs on the geo hatchback.

    If the person considering this swap would rather get the parts from NAPA look for part numbers 6411534, 6413158 and 6413144.

    This works. It is 100% as safe as using the production 12 inch wheels and I can assure you that it can be done. I have done this job. I have a 90 geo hatchback in my garage with the properly fitted 13 inch convertible wheels.

    Why you feel compelled to call me a liar to my face is sad and puzzling. I offer this information based on experience and the facts can be verified. I am not simply throwing out unsubstantiated opinions.
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 5,854
    Let's back off the personal edge on thing before they get too sharp. Thanks!

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  • drewkohlsdrewkohls Posts: 12
    the wheel bearing is not pressed in, and you do have to take off the whole knuckle. and you do have to take off the ball joint and tie rod end, but if you're a novice mechanic and you get up early on a weekend or whatever then you should be able to get it done before dark, taking somewhat frequent breaks in between. I am, what i would call, a shade tree mechanic, I've been doing my own mechanic work for quite some time, but with no actual training, and i changed both my front wheel bearings in under 4 hours. It's a fairly simple process, but just to for warn you, you may bust the seal on your tie rod end and need another one, and the oil seal that goes on after the inner wheel bearing will likely break too. so just two simple and for the most part cheap parts that you may also need. Good luck
  • Wow what a thread !!! This thread helped me a little in my research, so now I'm BACK, to give back!! Let me hit a few points first.

    /quote geoman2
    Forget the larger lugs.You won't find them with the substandard mm inside diameter and larger outside diameter...does NOT exist!
    /quote

    First, the the studs ar NOT SUBSTANDARD! 10x1.25 is a standard metric size. 10mm is common bolt size, 1.25mm is metric 'fine' thread. the word 'substandard is misleading and wrong!

    Second, Larger lugs DO exist. I have been a mechanic for 25 years (school trained), and there is NO safety issue with them. I will detail below.

    BTW, I am glad you are happy with your 145/80/12's. I wasnt...

    Moving on. During the process of converting to a 13" wheel, I compiled some information to help others along. Here it is:

    OEM Info
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Wheel = 12" x 4"
    Tire = 145/80-12
    Bolt pattern = 4 x 4.5" (114.3 mm)
    Fender well clearance 597mm

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Car Year Pattern Stud Size Center Bore Offset
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    METRO 89-97 4X114.3 10mmX1.25 59.6 35

    EXCEL 86-94 4X114.3 12mmX1.5 67.1 46

    New Wheel
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    13" x 4.5" Steel Wheel
    SILVER; 12 SLOT
    Model: Hyundai Excel 86-94

    (as you can see I used Hyundai excel rims because I got them for $10 ea, and all I had to do was paint them, surely many more will fit)

    Most compatiable sizes
    (the 155's were exact replacements I bought a while back, shown for comparison purposes only, they were Douglas brand from Walmart, they dont carry them anymore BTW) (the numbers on the far left mean nothing, it was just a list)
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Size total Radius +/- clearance ea side

    OEM 145/80/R12 537mm (21.1) +0mm 30mm

    Mine 155/75/R12 537mm (21.1) +0mm 30mm

    3 185/60/R13 552mm (21.7) +15mm 22.5mm Sumitomo HTR 200 (High Performance Summer) 46.00 Price: $184.00 for 4 - Shipping $40.90 ============= $224.90
    5 195/60/R13 564mm (22.2) +27mm 16.5mm Sumitomo HTR 200 (High Performance Summer) 49.00 Price: $196.00 for 4 - Shipping $42.18 ============= $238.18
    8 205/60/R13 576mm (22.7) +39mm 10.5mm Sumitomo HTR 200 (High Performance Summer) 54.00 Price: $216.00 for 4 - Shipping $46.02 ============= $262.02
    9 215/50/R13 546mm (21.5) +9mm 25.5mm Sumitomo HTR 200 (High Performance Summer) 52.00 Price: $208.00 for 4 - Shipping $43.46 ============= $251.46
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    These tires were all from tirerack. You can look around if you want... Other sizes may fit, but hitting the fenderwells is questionable, since they had to be shipped, I erred on the side of caution. BTW, I went with the 215/50/13's. They do not rub fenderwells or ANYWHERE!!

    Anyway, heres more:

    Stock Tire - 145/80R12 215/50R13
    Section Width: 5.70 in 145 mm Section Width: 8.46 in 215 mm
    Rim Diameter: 12 in 304.8 mm Rim Diameter: 13 in 330.2 mm
    Rim Width Range: 4 - 4.5 in Rim Width Range: 6 - 7.5 in
    Overall Diameter: 21.13 in 536.70 mm Overall Diameter: 21.46 in 545.08 mm
    Sidewall Height: 4.56 in 115.82 mm Sidewall Height: 4.23 in 107.44 mm
    Radius: 10.56 in 268.22 mm Radius: 10.73 in 272.54 mm
    Circumference: 66.38 in 1686.0 mm Circumference: 67.41 in 1712.2 mm
    Revs per Mile: 984.3 Revs per Mile: 969.2
    Actual Speed: 60 mph 100 km/h Speedometer1: 59.0 mph 98.4 km/h
    Speedometer Difference: 1.557% too slow Diameter Difference: 1.54%

    As you can see, the rim size is too small for the tires I selected, they work fine, but honestly, if I had it to do over again I would have gone with the 195's. I almost did, but I LOVE WIDE TIRES!! :) The rolling resistance is kind of high too, and that has hurt my gas milage, but at 57 mpg, I had some to spare ;)

    I used a javascript program on a website to calculate alot of this. I will post the link here, but I dont know how they are about links on this website. I really joined up here to make this post so hopefully other people wont have to do so much research like I did.

    http://www.rims-n-tires.com/info_specs.jsp?

    (this site seems to be down sometimes, maybe my security settings, but often I had to try back later to get there)

    Anyway, on to the lugs. The brand is Gorilla Automotive, the style is acorn, and they are also a 'bulge seat' style, which means simply, they are one size larger in physical form only. The hex size is listed as 3/4 inch, which is a direct cross to 19mm (close enough ok?), the same hex size you would get if you had 12mm studs!!! No need to change studs the seat is .5mm larger than the hex drive, more than enough to cover the hole.

    Here is a link to their catalog:
    http://daliracing.com/v666-5/download/Gorilla_lock_nuts.pdf

    or google 'Gorilla_lock_nuts.pdf'

    The part number is 41118 (bulk package), 41117 (clamshell package) 41117B (bag package.

    This is a link to where I bought mine, I got 20 for about $23 after shipping. If your buying custom stuff that has to be shipped, DO GET EXTRAS, 20+ they were only 0.82 cents each (before shipping) I couldnt find these in retail stores around town either.

    http://www.brandsport.com/grla-41118.html

    They fit very well, a little long, but they will STILL allow wheel covers no problem. If you dont want chrome like me, you can acid bath them first, and they will be a beautiful black chrome!! ( I have yet to do this myself)

    Anyway, I can post pics if anyone wants, I have dozens of pictures already taken (point me to an online picture dump). I also have pics of the washers I made before the lugs arrived. This is NOT safe in my humble AND professional opinion, even though they sell expensive lug washers. I got 3/8 zinc flat washers, lift wheel off ground, center wheel with two opposing lugs, put washer on stud, use nut and torque wrench to make flat washer conical. Then repeat for other lugs. This is real dangerous IMO because people 'forget'. I was checking the torque on my lugs every 10-15 miles for about 5 days!!! What a pain!! Its really unsafe, and I dont recommend it unless:

    1 Its very temporary
    2 You never forget anything
    2 You check the proper torques (with a torque wrench) very often (95-100ft lbs)

    If you leave them like this, your damn wheel WILL fall of sometime you are least expecting, and maybe kill someone, so use the PROPER LUGS!! I only include this information for completeness.

    It's been a great experience even for a seasoned mechanic, but I hope I have saved someone a little research. Please be safe, and change the studs, or buy the oversized nuts.

    questions/comments?

    Colt
  • The person that recommended this site: Offset Lugs for the shoulder or acorn seated lugs is spot on.
    Please be safe and enjoy a few new shiney parts by investing in the proper upgrade lugs.

    You'll enjoy the better ride and handling w/ the 13's over stock 12's, but remember your speedo is going to be off by 5 to 7mph so do 5mph under what it reads.
  • Hello Don't know if it will help you or not but that size wheel comes on 1992 Geo Metro. Found a Place tht can order than 45 a piece brand new. took me 2 months to find this place. Good luck
  • My metro just started to make a noise.I pulled the driver-side rear wheel and spun.I could hear the noise.I pulled cap off and bearings look okbut i guess they're not.Are they pressed in or bolted?
  • candoitcandoit Posts: 1
    LETS MAKE THIS SIMPLE IVE BEEN MAKING ALL SORT OF CONVERSIONS ON GEO METROS AND SUZUKI SWIFTS SINCE THEY WERE NEW YOU WANT 13 WHEELS GO TO A LOCAL JUNKYARD FIND A CONV OR LATER MODEL METRO IE HATCH OR 4DR BUY THE 13 INCH RIMS AND TIRES AND FRONT SPINDLES INCLUDING CALIPERS AND ROTORS I USUALY PAY ABOUT $100.00 THEY WILL BOLT RIGHT ON NO MODS BUY 8 STUDS FOR REARS SLIGHTLY DRILL REAR HOLES BIGGER TO ACCOMADATE BIGGER STUDS NOW YOU HAVE A REAR BRAKE SYSTEM WITH SLIDE OFF ROTORS AND 13 THAT WILL IMPROVE FUEL ECONOMY SLIGHTLY AND ALSO HANDLE ALOT BETTER ANY QUESTIONS FELL FREE.
  • colt1911colt1911 Posts: 2
    Did you read this whole thread? No offense, but how much simpler can it be than a set of rims an lug nuts??

    your way:
    1. Find a Conversion or late model geo at the bone yard that hasnt been stripped already (tough)
    2. buy conversion, or late model spindles ($$$)
    3. buy conversion, or late model calipers ($$$)
    4. buy conversion, or late model rims ($$$)
    5. buy conversion, or late model tires ($$$)
    6. Dont really expect to get all that for $100
    7. Do alot of work changing spindels, rotors, calipers, rims, and tires
    8. buy 8 studs for the rear
    9. pray you have a decent drill press to precision drill the rotors for oversized studs
    10. Install all this and do it your self
    10. have tires mounted

    My way:

    1. goto: www.teamswift.net (or google) search the forum there. There is a LIST that tells you every wheel that fits the metro for nearly ANY GEO. My '94 is 105mm 4 lug I think. But you can search out any conversion you want online and make you own list. This is easier than drilling rotors!!

    2. Go buy any set of 13 in rims that you can find off of multiple cars for multiple years. I bought 89-94 hyundai rims for $10 ea! Painted them they look great.

    3. All the 13" rims you find will be to accomodate a 19mm stud the originals are for 17mm, so the lugs are smaller, sooooooo, go buy some online!! They are around 75 cents each, and get a few extra. look back in this thread, and you will find the link I posted. The BRAND is GORILLA. The STYLE is BULGE SEAT. the SEAT is over sized, and you need this because the hole is larger on the 13 inch rims, and your old lug nuts will slip into the hole itsself.

    4. buy a set of tires and have them mounted.

    5. install the tires and new lugs.

    Just to recap, you can do all those mods with brakes, spindles, calipers, and drilling rotors, OR you can do it the EASY way:

    1. Get a set of rims, tires to fit, and ovesized lugs

    2.Have the tires mounted, and put them on with the new lugs

    @candoit

    I do not mean to be harsh. What seems easy to us is not to others. I have been working cars since I was knee high to a grasshopper (30+ yrs), have a degree in it, and dont mean to be rude to you. But you have to look at the fact that buying a set of rims availible from many cars, tires and lugs to fit is pretty easy for most people. What I consider easy is replcing the V-hold chip and channel in your TV, or rebuilding a transmission or engine, or engineering an idea from scratch and fabricating parts. Most other people do not have the knowledge, tools, or time to do such things. The fact that I 'discovered' there was a lug nut that would omit the 'need' for a conversion, and made it a very strong point to come back AFTER I finished the project so that the information could help other, really solved the problem for many people. Some have even posted so in this thread. I think its commendible that you took the time to post your ideas here, but I do not agree your way is easier.
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