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2009 Subaru Forester

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  • dstew1dstew1 Posts: 275
    From nabisco:
    http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=21789696&postcount=1

    FROM: Subaru of America, Inc.
    DEPARTMENT: Service Department
    DATE: 04/04/2008

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    APRIL 4, 2008
    IMMEDIATE STOP SALE ORDER
    ALL SUBARU DEALERS

    We regret to inform you that we must place an immediate stop sale order on all of the 2008/2009 Subaru Impreza and Forester vehicles equipped with a 2.5L Turbo Engine produced with the beginning chassis number and later as shown below.
    Model Starting Chassis Number Production Date

    Forester 701045 2008/01/08
    Impreza 523363 (SEDAN)/825183 (HATCH)2008/01/08

    The reason for this immediate Quality Assurance action is that there have been several reports of “Engine Knocking Noise” from other markets on vehicles produced after the production dates listed.

    Initial investigation confirms an internal wear issue on the failed units.

    In the interest of preventing any possibility of failures for our customers, we have chosen to isolate any potentially affected vehicles by ceasing sales of the potentially affected units until the root cause and correction can be identified.

    All the other displacement engines and the 2.5L Natural Aspirated Engine are excluded from this action.

    Your region/distributor will be contacting you with a detailed list of affected vehicles assigned to your dealership. However, dealer trades cannot be tracked so please be aware of the affected VIN range.

    If you have a vehicle in inventory that falls into the affected vehicle range, please ensure that your sales and service staff are immediately notified that the unit is un-saleable until further notice from SOA or your region/distributor.

    If any of those vehicles has an unusual engine noise, please notify the SOA Technical Helpline immediately with all of the details and submit an E-QMR.

    Should a customer bring an affected vehicle into your service department for an unusual engine noise, please immediately arrange that they are given the use of a clean SSLP vehicle and notify the Technical Helpline and submit an E-QMR.

    You will be contacted shortly thereafter on how to proceed.

    We are still investigating whether any of the SIA produced Legacy Outback turbo vehicles are affected. If any action is needed on the SIA vehicles, you will be notified early next week.
  • kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Posts: 1,714
    Thanks for update, dstew1.

    Once again I am kicking myself in the A__ for buying a first year car. I gambled Subaru could rise above that, but obviously not.

    No more 1st years, ever.
  • p0926p0926 Posts: 4,423
    I don't ever recall Subaru issuing a stop sale order before. Small comfort I know but at least it looks like they're being proactive.

    -Frank
  • kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Posts: 1,714
    I visited my selling dealer to schedule a service appointment for creaky dash and they confirmed the Turbo issue.
    The warning sign, they said, is if you hear a clunk or knocking during or just after the engine has started up.
    They had no info as to what the problem actually is.
    This only applies to the Turbo engine in '09 Forester and Impreza.
  • p0926p0926 Posts: 4,423
    Hopefully Subaru is just being overly cautious and the problem only affects a limited number of vehicles
  • tkaytkay Posts: 99
    KMaxGuy hopefully you can catch a break! Good luck bro!
  • kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Posts: 1,714
    from same web site as before posting the bulletin:

    "APRIL 4, 2008
    IMMEDIATE STOP SALE ORDER AMENDMENT 01 04:08 EST
    ALL SUBARU DEALERS

    We regret to inform you that we must place an immediate stop sale order on all of the 2008/2009 Subaru Impreza and Forester vehicles equipped with a 2.5L Turbo Engine produced with the beginning chassis number and later as shown below.
    Model Starting Chassis Number Production Date

    Forester 700175
    Impreza 507657 (SEDAN)/800140 (HATCH)2007/11/01

    This is a correction of the earlier VIN set:

    **INCORRECT**Forester 701045 2008/01/08**INCORRECT**
    **INCORRECT**Impreza 523363 (SEDAN)/825183 (HATCH)2008/01/08**INCORRECT**

    The reason for this immediate Quality Assurance action is that there have been several reports of “Engine Knocking Noise” from other markets on vehicles produced after the production dates listed.

    Initial investigation confirms an internal piston ring wear issue on the failed units. This investigation shows failure in material quality or incorrect material altogether where in extreme cases the rings have fragmented.

    In the interest of preventing any possibility of failures for our customers, we have chosen to isolate any potentially affected vehicles by ceasing sales of the potentially affected units until the root cause and correction can be identified. "

    Another thread from there says:

    "It looks like 5 months of 2.5L turbo engine production in Japan might have incorporated the defective rings. And Subaru is still trying to determine whether those defective rings went to SIA's engine assembly line. This will be expensive to cure."

    My gawd....
    :surprise: :sick: :lemon:
  • Thanks for update, dstew1.

    Once again I am kicking myself in the A__ for buying a first year car. I gambled Subaru could rise above that, but obviously not.

    No more 1st years, ever.


    Is this really a first year car issue? Hasnt the Turbo been used in a few model over the last few years?
  • 204meca204meca Posts: 366
    I have owned a 97 Civic VX & 04 Audi A4 (still have) with CVTs. Both had "manual shift" capabilities for 6 spds. I love the CVT! Can't beat the smoothness, midspeed acceleration (RPMs stay in peak power range as long as you like), & fuel economy is outstanding. I don't understand why some people find em so hard to get used to. For normal, no agressive driving the only noticable difference I detact is you never feel an actual shift.
    My current 03 Forester XS has a manual, but when I am ready for a newer one in 3 years I will be getting an AT, I hope the Foresters have either the 5 spd or CVT when I am ready.
  • 204meca204meca Posts: 366
    The new Forester has tempted me to start using my Subie Bucks card again so I could have an extra $1,500 cash 3 years from now. My only reservation is 3 years from now the Forester might not look like the best replacement for my 03 model. :confuse:

    Can the Subie Bucks coupons be transfered?

    Is there a market for them at a discounted price to 3rd parties?
  • tkaytkay Posts: 99
    That would be nice.Buy $ 10,000 subie bucks for 1/2 price 5K But it does have your name on them, and says not tranferable or resold..!!
  • batman47batman47 Posts: 606
    It is not good news about the 2009 Forester fault, is it?

    Long term quality control was not professionally performed and this is a serious punch to the prestige of Subaru America. Overconfidence in the reliability of Subaru cars maintained by patriotic all the way is a sombre matter. Can the affected owners claim a Lemon demand to get their money back?
  • jeffmcjeffmc Posts: 1,742
    Use the Subie bucks to pay for service on your vehicle, and put the money you would've spent on the service into a bank account. Then you've got downpayment cash to spend on whatever vehicle you go with down the road, and don't risk losing your earned Subie Bucks.
  • jeffmcjeffmc Posts: 1,742
    "Overconfidence in the reliability of Subaru cars maintained by patriotic all the way is a sombre matter. Can the affected owners claim a Lemon demand to get their money back?"

    If someone is expecting 100% reliability from any auto manufacturer, they're definitely overconfident. Subaru has had a very good track record according to many sources, and IMHO has earned the confidence that, as a whole, Subarus are some of the most reliable vehicles made. A few makes are more reliable as a whole, and many more are less reliable. If you buy a Subaru, the odds are very good that it will be reliable, but there is always a chance it won't be. No manufacter is free from problems.

    We don't even know the number of vehicles this affects, or the percentage of Subarus sold with this problem. Can't be more than 10%. Let's wait & see what Subaru does to fix things before declaring the affected turbos lemons. :)
  • h2k2f2h2k2f2 Posts: 44
    Jeff:
    Thank you. Your post was a reasonable, rational response to batman47's inflammatory prattle.
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    I guess I'm off base here but my 1992 SVX with 230hp, AWD, and weighing about 3600+ lbs got 35mpg on the highway at 75-80mph. It had a 4 speed automatic transmission.

    -mike
  • kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Posts: 1,714
    I've probably overreacted, but it was a real jolt after 4 months of hard research to see the end choice ending up with what could be a major problem.
    Still, as jeffmc suggests, I'll wait and see and try to keep track of what's going on with this, before truly declaring my Forester a lemon.
  • birdboybirdboy Posts: 158
    I test drove a 2009 Forester2.5X. I felt both the ride and power to be fine especially when driving in sports shift mode. I presently have a VW Passat (troublefree) for three years. I need the awd and cargo space . When i finished my test drive I turned the radio in the X on and was beyond dissapointed at the sound quality.The salesperson said that the LL bean sound system is much better , however he had none on the lot for me to hear. I am not buying a car for the radio, however , spending a lot of time driving this is an important creature comfort. Can anyone give me some user info about the upgraded sound or suggestions ? Frankly, I am surprised at this feature being overlooked in what I think was a nice redisign. Thanks for any help.
  • samiam_68samiam_68 Posts: 775
    I guess I'm off base here but my 1992 SVX with 230hp, AWD, and weighing about 3600+ lbs got 35mpg on the highway at 75-80mph. It had a 4 speed automatic transmission.

    Was this downhill with a tailwind? :P
  • chelentanochelentano Posts: 634
    Sure, you can always get stereo upgraded with some better stereo from Best Buy. With labor it may cost you a few hundred bux though.

    But if you looking for AWD, cargo space and good stereo, you might want to consider the 2.4L Outlander Special Edition or the V6 Outlander version. Outlander has better AWD, more cargo, excellent optional Rockford Fosgate stereo w/650 watt amplifier, mp3 music server, 5/10 year warranty, and Consumer Reports rating of the best predicted reliability in small SUV category. The comparo thread is here: Forester vs. Outlander
  • h2k2f2h2k2f2 Posts: 44
    Here we go with an example of a Mitsubishi Patriot! He's probably one of Batman47's friends.
  • 204meca204meca Posts: 366
    Jeff that is a good suggestions, except since I only put about 10K miles on my Forester annuallyI do most of my own maint, I don't have much need for service at the Subie garage -- I least I don't anticipate much need for service at the Subie garage ;) !
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    FWIW, CR listed the Outlander under their list for highest TCO in its class.

    Forester was on the list for the lowest TCO.

    And yes, folks, chelentano is extremely pro-Mitsubishi, have no doubt. He and I have debated before in other threads.

    While I'm replying to you - have you found a video to prove the Outlander can climb one of those ramps that simulate driving on ice?

    Didn't think so. ;)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    If you really, truly, have not made up your mind yet, and are planning to wait until this summer anyway, then I would strongly recommend waiting for the new Twin Clutch SST transmission that's coming for the V6 Outlander.

    You were the one stating how important transmission technology is, what is a couple of extra months' wait to get what is arguably the best type of automatic transmission available today, a dual clutch setup?

    If you buy a V6 Outlander now, yours will seem outdated in the transmission department just a few months later.

    Here is Edmunds' Blog entry:

    http://blogs.edmunds.com/Straightline/4598

    a way to offer both fuel savings and enhanced performance

    I'll be very interested to see what you end up buying. I guess if you end up buying the current V6 model with the old school 6 speed auto, transmission technlogy wasn't as important to you as you stated. ;)
  • batman47batman47 Posts: 606
    Thank you for the link.

    I will prefer to wait until fast thinking owners will try this new transmission first. When the transmission has proved reliable (about 5 years from now) then I will change my vehicle no necessarily an Outlander or Forester. For example I am considering the 2009 Honda Pilot but my wife has put some restriction in the amount of money to spend. I am even considering the Tiguan.

    I don't give up the 2009 Forester 2.5X + premium package. So I would like to hear more first hand experience for this new car.
  • deerlake7deerlake7 Posts: 162
    We picked up a '09 Forester X Premium today for my wife. My employer is a Subaru supplier, so we received the VIP price, along with a bit above the KBB trade value for the '03 Pilot we traded. I would have preferred something larger, but my wife insisted on downsizing and since she's the main driver of this vehicle, we went for it. It's a fun drive. Good steering and cornering, relatively quiet with acceptable space. Not sure about the sunroof which only rolls back into the roof because of its size (versus flipping up as well), but it's still cold up here, so we'll have to see how it works when the temps rise. I'll report back after we put a few miles on it.
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    I guess I'm off base here but my 1992 SVX with 230hp, AWD, and weighing about 3600+ lbs got 35mpg on the highway at 75-80mph. It had a 4 speed automatic transmission.

    Was this downhill with a tailwind?


    Nope. City driving I managed 17mpg consistently. On the highway usually 30mpg and often on long cruise control trips I hit 33-35 doing 75-80mph. The gearing on it was extreme. In 4th gear at 145mph we turned about 4500-4600 rpms IIRC. If it could hit redline in 4th gear (7000) it would be going 200 mph, obviously it could never attain that due to wind resistance and lack of power, but that gives you an idea of what it was turning at 80mph.

    image

    -mike
  • chelentanochelentano Posts: 634
    My response to you is in appropriate thread: Outlander vs. Forester
  • chelentanochelentano Posts: 634
    >> If you buy a V6 Outlander now, yours will seem outdated in the transmission department just a few months later.

    Mitsubishi new Twin Clutch SST transmission is very cool, but Outlander's current 6-speed tranny with paddle shifters is quite modern. What is outdated "old school" is 4-speed auto which has been around for 30 years and will be around for the next 20, thanks to Subaru.
  • kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Posts: 1,714
    Compared to the earlier 4-speeds, I suspect that "old school" 4-speed in '09 Forester has had a number of improvements. Sportshift is new (most likely lifted from the Outback's trans) and seems to work well.

    I've driven the Audi dual clutch trans several times and found accelerating usually gave smooth shifts, but slowing down or cruising was rather jerky and unpleasant.
    But yes, it is more efficient than a torque-converter based auto-trans.

    Some here may wonder why I didn't consider the Mitsubishi Outlander. Simply because there was only one badly rated dealer anywhere near me.
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