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2009 Subaru Forester

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Comments

  • chelentanochelentano Posts: 634
    Mitsu is already offering the paddle-shiftable 6-speed Twin-Clutch Sport Shift Transmission (TC-SST) on 2008 Lancer Evo MR. The car is already selling in Japan since November. It delivers spectacular 1g on skid pad and 0-60 in 5.2 sec. in automatic mode. The Motor Trend reviewer seem to be happy with the tranny:

    Lancer Evo
  • growler5growler5 Posts: 67
    If you read the bulletin carefully, it says that the problem has been noted "in other markets". I didn't see anything that says it's a problem in the US.

    Let's see how this plays out before jumping up and down and saying "waa waa waa I want my money back !!!"

    Also, note that the Lemon laws typically has requirements that the dealer be given a chance to fix the problem. It does not mean that if the manufacturer finds a severe problem and is aggressively working to fix it, you still would automatically qualify for a refund.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    When the transmission has proved reliable (about 5 years from now)

    Mitsu's current 6 speed auto has not been out for 5 years, so by your standard that's not proven either.

    The paddle shifters are OK, but they are only simulating what the Twin Clutch SST can do.

    That trans would have been in the EVO for about a year by the time the Outlander comes out with it.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    and will be around for the next 20, thanks to Subaru

    Actually, a CVT is due next year, so you're just plain wrong about that.

    Plus, batman47 is looking for a transmission that has been in production for 5+ years and had proven reliable.

    The Subaru 4EAT qualifies for that, the 6 speed Mitsubishi does not (not 5 years yet).
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    The Mitsubishi fans very quickly went to the word "lemon" to describe this problem, and that reveals their bias. They seem to be enjoying this.

    How about some definitions?

    As you said, a lemon is a vehicle in customer's hands that a manufacturer has already attempted to repair (3 times in most states) where the problem still persists.

    Kurt's XT is not showing symptoms, nor has Subaru tried to repair it yet. The stop sale means a lot of them aren't even in customers' hands. The engine has been in production since 2004. Show me one lemon that was bought back by Subaru. That is not a lemon by a long shot.

    And remember, if this were Mistubishi, they would keep right on selling the defective parts, hiding the recalls, and end up with half the execs in jail like last time. :P

    Let me guess - that was a long time ago, and only affected a few Mitsubishi cars.

    Really? Try from 1977 until 2000.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:DeLarge/recall

    The fact that this went on for 23 whole years shows there was a corporate culture that allowed this fraud to continue. Best-case scenario we can hope that all the execs are in jail so you'd hope the entire corporate culture has changed 100% from that 23 year era of corruption.

    "arrest of 26 members of staff"
  • kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Posts: 1,715
    The phrase Ateixeria mentioned, which I missed :blush: reads in full:

    "The reason for this immediate Quality Assurance action is that there have been several reports of “Engine Knocking Noise” from other markets on vehicles produced after the production dates listed."

    Also unknown is how much use those other vehicles "in other markets" had before they failed.

    So while I am concerned, my Forester (other than chirping dash) is not "knocking" nor beltching oil smoke. I checked its oil level yesterday and after nearly 500 miles it's used very little oil, while its economy may be improving (the dash indicator's certainly more optimistic ;) )

    BTW, Consumers Union recently published a ranking of service quality of both Auto dealers and Independent shops. Subaru was just above average, followed by Chevrolet. The bottom dwellers were Volkswagen and Mitsubishi.
    Also, in CU reliability rankings, Mitsubishi doesn't do as well as the other Japanese brands.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    growler5 actually deserves credit for point out the "in other markets" tid bit.

    I'm shopping for a normally aspirated model, so it won't affect me at all. In fact, now that the VIP program is in affect I just requested a letter so I can qualify for that pricing.

    Hang in there, we have to wait and see what the verdict is on the turbo engines. Worst case scenario, they would replace the affected parts and you would get a free extended warranty for 100k miles.
  • ecotrklvrecotrklvr Posts: 519
    I'd like to continue reading about the 2009 Subaru Forester in this Forum - after all, that is what it's here for. I'm considering buying a 2.5X right now, and I've been pleased to see all the action here.

    If you're reading this post in this Forum, and want to tell me how great your Mitsubishi is, please post in that forum. I'm sure that anyone who wants to find out about that vehicle can find that Forum as well.
  • samiam_68samiam_68 Posts: 775
    The stop sale has been issued for all turbo models, including Legacy and Outback.
  • batman47batman47 Posts: 606
    So Subaru forum is exclusively for Subaru patriots, is it not?

    This forum has one or two members that are objective in their judgments and I like to read them. What downgrade any forum is those jingoists that just want to listen the same music on an on. In spite that anything are being said about Subaru Forester XT, and all the reasons to justify the problem, that I think are valid. However the occurrence of the problem has been a frustrating experience for those who managed to buy the 2009 Forester (full of hope) before the problem was published. It is truth that other manufacturers have had similar problems and perhaps worse problems, but that was OK as far as it was not a Subaru. We felt protected driving and buying a Subaru. When the news of the problem came to light, I think many Subaru patriots felt that they have been raped and left unprotected.
  • mfletou1mfletou1 Posts: 508
    I know what the hell a Subaru "patriot" is, but this forum should be about the 2009 Subaru Forester, yes. Or what any of this has to do with nationalistic foreign policy (jingoists?)

    I think some level of comparison discussion is fine, but there are forums that compare the Forester to other cars that are more appropriate for specifics, and there are forums about other cars for details about those vehicles.
  • p0926p0926 Posts: 4,423
    I see nothing wrong with objective comparisons to competing models but you're right, this forum was intended for those wanting to discuss and learn more about the 2009 Forester. Unfortunately it's an open forum so anyone who wants to bash the Forester, Subaru, or Subaru owners is free to do so :(

    -Frank
  • ecotrklvrecotrklvr Posts: 519
    Patriot? Nope - you got the wrong guy. I'd don't own a Subaru, and never have. I might just want to buy one, and so I'd like to read about them. That's why I'm here.

    For the record, I have a vehicle with a 4-speed auto. I chose it over the same rig with a 5-speed auto, because of the issues I read about in an Edmunds Forum - for that vehicle.
  • ecotrklvrecotrklvr Posts: 519
    Yeah, you're right. Well put.
  • As I have driven the car, the ride and acceleration are improving. I believe someone mentioned this point up until 1000 miles driven. I was concerned the pickup was weak but I am now satisfied.The MPG seems to be living up to its claims~~for both city and hwy driving.
    The huge moonroof is a great feature on a sunny day~~esp. after this crappy winter.
    The only thing I would change would be adding fold-in rearview mirrors~~a minor but nice feature; esp. for city parking.
    I am thankful I didn't get a turbo and feel for those who did~~that sucks and wish you the best!!
    I am hearing a rattling from the rear but have been too busy to investigate it thoroughly~~might just be the tire or cargo cover. Anyone else have rattling from the rear/storage area?
    In addition, I did take my car in for the Ipod interface and now, the right dash has been rattling (over bumps). I am taking it back in Sat morn for them to fiqure it out as I won't accept a rattle in a brand new car~~esp. dealer caused!
    I am still not used to having the gas tank on the right~all my previous cars have had the tank on the left~~no biggie; just an adjustment.
    Overall, I would highly recommend the 09 Forester. It is my first Subaru and so far, so good. I also gets lots of compliments on the color, Newport Blue.
  • kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Posts: 1,715
    The XT Limited has fold-in exterior side mirrors.
    The center rear seat belt needs to be securely positioned within its roof holder to avoid rattles from it. Another potential areas is the crossbar for the rear cargo area screen.
    Sorry to hear kahanatina is having rattles in the dash. Anyone else?

    At 500 miles on car, fuel economy is 20 mpg.
  • tntmythtntmyth Posts: 70
    I feel for the forum posters that are worried about the recall. It is definitely a strong consideration not to buy the first year of a model. But if you love the car enough, it may be worth the risk. The Japanese usually get it right the first time around more often than Detroit. But if you read across all of the forums, you notice that people without a doubt have more problems with their first model year vehicles than otherwise. (e.g. I have been reading the 2008 Cadillac CTS forum and some on that forum have been having some serious issues). But if you read comments from members that have 3rd 4th or 5th model year cars, whether American, Japanese or German, it seems that they comment that their cars have been trouble free. This even includes Chrysler and GM cars. It makes total sense that the manufacturers would need to "tweak" their cars in the first year. We all just hope that it is nothing major. And in the case of Subaru, they are still using their same standard Boxter tried and true engine. So that is the last place I would expect any issues. A rattle in the dash? Sure. Maybe a sunroof issue? Sure. But I am surprise that they have a problem with the engine. And really, didn't I read that this is a problem appearing in both the 2008 and 2009 Foresters? In any case, I applaud Subaru for standing up and taking responsibility for the problem rather than sweeping it under the rug. That would be worse. And it just encourages me that Subaru is the kind of manufacturer I want to buy from.

    I have not bought my Forester yet. It is on the top of my shopping list. I am considering a few different cars. 2009 Subaru Forester, VW Passat, 2008 Cadillac CTS. Nissan Murano, Hyundai Sonata or Santa Fe. The forums at Edmunds are a valuable resource to help me decide. Anybody has the right to be here and say good or bad stuff. Thats what the forums are all about.
  • tntmythtntmyth Posts: 70
    Futher to my post. Forester seems like the most logical and utilitarian choice, I know. But here is what I like about each of my possible choices listed above.

    2009 Forester
    Most logical choice. Good price compared to my other choices. Gets average to decent gas mileage if you get the normally aspirated model. Lots of cargo room to replace utility of my 2001 Trooper. AWD which I think is safer on wet Florida roads and would be great to have for the snow if/when I visit or move to NC or MA. Should have great crash test results like all Subarus. Should be reliable like its' ancestors.

    VW Passat
    This is a pretty sharp looking car. And all of the reviews say that it drives great. Fast with the 4 cylinder turbo. From the forums here at Edmunds, it gets excellent gas mileage 30-35 mpg., better than the EPA estimates on the sticker. They seem to be well made. I have read both good and bad comments about reliability from the VWs. Overall, it's a sharp car that is quick, fun to drive and gets great mileage and under $30K. If I want utility, I can always get the wagon although the cargo room would not be as good.

    2008 Cadillac CTS
    This car is at a different price point than the others. Could be double the price of a Forester. But I still like it. The reviews speak for themselves. Keeps up with a 5 Series and less money. And I would like to support the American manufacturers for finally building a competitive machine. Gets decent mileage for what it does. Handles great. Lots of prestige for the price.

    2009 Nissan Murano
    I saw one of these recently at a local burger restaurant. Spoke with the owner and he was raving about it. Said that he LOVES the CVT and gets 30mpg on the highway even with the 6 cyl engine. Said that he got it for only $25K. This is the basic V6 model with cloth seats. But seems like alot of car for $25K. I will have to check it out before taking the plunge on the Subaru. I know the Subaru has the AWD but if I really fell in love with the Murano, seeing that we don't often get snow here in South Florida, I could probably get by without the AWD.

    2009 Hyundai Sonata
    As a work car, again it's alot of car you can get for under $20K. Rides quiet and smooth. Gets pretty decent mileage. Excellent warranty. Very reliable from what I read here at the forums. Bad part is that I would have to tell friends that I drive a Hyundai. Most of them say that they would not drive one. Funny thay they think it's OK to drive an Altima or Jeep or Toyota. That's OK.

    2008 or 2009 Hyundai Santa Fe
    Alot of SUV for the money. Rich looking interior for low $20's. 6 cylinder engine. Great warranty and reliability. Would give me the same cargo room and utility as the Forester. What I am worried about here is the resale value down the road. Also the Santa Fe would not get as good gas mileage as the Forester. So I am leaning towards the Forester if I get a small SUV.

    First choice at the moment is the Forester because it seems to be the most well rounded as far as what I need.

    2nd choice at the moment is the VW Passat. because it's cool looking, decent price and good gas mileage. The others would still have to convince me to get into the top 2 slots. I plan on buying some time this year or might wait for the 2010 Forester.
  • Sorry, should have made this more clear. The dealer actually took apart my car to put the Ipod interface in when they discovered they had been sent the kit for the Impreza so the wires didn't match. They put it back together~~~leaving a dash rattle~~so, when I go to get the right Ipod interface installed, the dealer will hopefully tighten everything properly and the rattle will be solved~~at least, that is my hope. I don't have a turbo so I am hoping that is the issue~~there wasn't a dash rattle until the dealer had it for the Ipod install. I also confirmed with them that they had all the manuals for the 09 Forester~they said they did.
    Thanks for the rattle advise~~hate em!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    You call us patriots, yet you behave like a Mitsubishi patriot.

    Pot calling the kettle black?

    the problem was published

    We don't know that yet. You keep skipping over the fact that it was models in overseas markets that have had the "problem" you refer to. We don't know if US engines are even affected yet, we'll have to wait and see.

    left unprotected

    Again, this story is far from over, so your conclusion is premature at the very least.

    Last time Subaru had a head gasket problem, owners got free repairs and a 100k warranty. They were not "left unprotected" as you stated.

    The people who were "left unprotected" were the 23 years' worth of Mitsubishi owners (1977-2000 models) who had cars with safety recalls hidden by the 26 Mitsubishi employees that are now in jail. :D

    Link in case you forgot already:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:DeLarge/recall

    The question for Subaru owners and potential buyers is, would you rather know, or be kept in the dark, about a potential problem?

    Should Subaru stop selling the cars until the concern is addressed, or hide the problem and just keep selling the cars. For 23 years! :surprise:

    But Mitsubishi has changed, you say.

    Maybe, after all those 26 people are in jail! :D

    Sadly Mitsubishi has not changed. Check out this comparison chart, thanks to chelentano for the image:

    chelentano, "Outlander vs. Forester" #14, 5 Apr 2008 9:58 pm

    Look at how many mistakes (lies?) they publish about the Forester in order to appear more competitive. Here is my rebuttal, where I point out the, oh, 19 or so mistakes made in that chart:

    ateixeira, "Outlander vs. Forester" #29, 8 Apr 2008 7:37 am

    So Mitsubishi is up to the same old, same old. I think they need to throw a 27th Mitsubishi employee in jail. Then maybe they will start telling the truth.

    Bottom line?

    No vehicle is perfect. I think we all can agree.

    Can you trust Subaru to fix the problem, if it does affect US models? Yes.

    Can you trust Mitsubishi on anything? No. :(
  • p0926p0926 Posts: 4,423
    Juice- you're wasting your time ;)
  • bikerguy3bikerguy3 Posts: 43
    I am definitely what marketeers like to call an "early adopter". I tend to buy cars in their first model year - I suppose because I enjoy fresh, new designs, and I like to be different (ie you'll never catch me driving a Taurus or a Camry). Of course, being on the "bleeding edge" also means sometimes you find yourself with a product that still has a few bugs... I'm happy to report that thus far, my experience with my '09 Forester X Premium has been trouble free. I've had it for about 6 weeks, and have just over 1,000 miles on it. I have no dashboard rattles, etc; and have noticed that the suspension handles going over speed bumps very nicely (not too much bounce, but not too harsh either). MPG is running about 24 around town and just over 28 HWY. I love the solid sound/feeling of the front doors (but it's true the tailgate is not as solid sounding/feeling). Love the M/T shifting, big sunroof, ipod i/f, front seat comfort, visibility, and AWD w/ VDC. I wish it had a telescoping steering wheel adjstmnt, and wish the engine mufflers gave a bit more of a "growl" when you get on it (if that is possible from a 4 cyl non-turbo boxer!).

    FYI - I bought a Murano when they first came out (Jan 2003). I got the hi-end AWD; paid about $33K. It was a nice vehicle. But my gas mileage was at best 20 mpg & never came close to EPA rating of 24, even on staight hwy cruise. I also never got used to the CVT...it just didn't feel crisp...like there was a rubber band between the engine and the wheels. Also (and this was important for me) even tho the vehicle is AWD it was terrible getting thru snow and/or off road mud/trails/beach. So if you want an AWD vehicle for on-road performance or wet-road slippage safety, the murano is good. But if you need to traverse snowy unplowed driveways or soft sandy beaches, the Forester AWD system & ground clearance is way better.
  • mfletou1mfletou1 Posts: 508
    people have a right to express whatever positive or negative comments they want to, but there is line between that and being a troll. I certainly have engaged in fairly critical analysis of the Forester redesign, including the decontenting of the Premium package and the price point verses the segment leader, the CR-V.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Good point, so where do we draw the line?

    Your posts have been constructive and fair. You've pointed out facts to inform people and kept this thread balanced, which I appreciate.

    We have had a healthy and productive back-and-forth discussion of the pros and cons of the new design vs. the old one.

    So there's your criteria.
  • tkaytkay Posts: 99
    I tend to see us as trailblazers,not afraid to take a chance. It reminds me of a movie "How The West Was Won". There are some who need the assurances of the masses before they will make a move. This policy is sound,but leads to stagnation in the world that is populated by people afraid to risk or take a opportunity to be the (can we say) Test Pilots for the World. Some times it doesn't work out,but somebody has to do it...!!!!
  • bigfrank3bigfrank3 Posts: 426
    The main reason car companies go to more speeds in their auto trans is to better control emissions. It is easier to meet requirements when they have a good idea over what the typical RPM range will be while in use. More speeds closer together allow the normal operation to occur in a smaller RPM band. A constant speed engine would be a piece of cake to control emissions, and the closest thing to that is an engine mated to a CVT.

    This is why even cars like the Corvette have many speed transmissions when they also have plenty of torque, and wouldn't seem like they need the extra speeds. They want "control" of the typical RPM used, especially through a test cycle.

    I have kept a spreadsheet for a number of years on the various trans and final drive ratios Subaru has used, and they do a great job matching torque needs, including launch characteristics. Too bad they didn't think they needed the "control" of the 5 speeds. Nonetheless the 4 speed is an excellent unit.

    My wife an I like the 09 Forester and what they have done. I am a little disappointed in that they didn't go to the 5 speed auto because it would have allowed a lower highway RPM and better MPG for me, while maintaining a good set of 1 through 4 ratios. I get good mileage in normal use with my 06 Premium but on the highway it doesn't jump up like it should because I drive too fast.

    I don't like what they have done with the new Premium because I now can't get the power seat which gave me more leg room. My wife will probably trade her 05 Bean Forester for an 09 Bean at some point, and we both like the fact that the tan interiors are gone. She doesn't mind the leather but I am not a leather person, so I don't know what I would buy if I were in the market.
  • 204meca204meca Posts: 366
    Frank If you want to official Bean model, get it quick. According to Joe at cars101.com (Carter Subaru of Seattle) the Beaner model is on its way out as contract is expiring and the replacement will be Forester X Limited. Not sure what will be different besides no LL Bean badge.
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,661
    Nothing will be different. It's just a name swap.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    That's the model I'm considering, too. Should be around until June, though dealers may have them a bit longer.

    I'm having trouble finding one! The 2 nearest dealers to me sold out of LL Bean models already. They had 4 last time I checked, but zero now.

    So demand seems to be very strong for the LL Beans. Not sure why they're dropping that partnership.
  • bigfrank3bigfrank3 Posts: 426
    Thanks all for the info. I don't think my wife will care whether it says L.L.Bean on it, or not, it is the content that matters... although she did like the L.L.Bean tote bag she got when she bought her present one.

    It will be a while before she makes the jump, but she is thinking about it, and liked the red Bean she saw at the dealership while she was having her sunroof track and motor replaced.
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