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2009 Subaru Forester

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Comments

  • p0926p0926 Posts: 4,423
    Aside from not being able to a get manual on the turbo

    Bob- Some aside... that's a deal killer for me :( Probably a good thing though since without the manual, I'm not tempted to want one :P Which is good news considering there's absolutely nothing wrong with my 04.

    I've not gone to look at one in person but from what I've read it sounds like they've made improvements in almost every area and my fears of the Forester losing some of its handling ability appear misplaced.

    Now if Subaru decides to re-offer the manual in the XTs in a year or two, then I'll be in big trouble :shades:

    -Frank
  • kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Posts: 1,724
    No, Subaru's said nothing in response to my describing my fix to them.
    They've been a fair number of hiccups on their my.subaru web site as well (having difficulty updating stuff, service contracts not being listed, etc.).
    Visiting some dealers for accessories, I've found they don't always have '09 parts lists.

    Perhaps the support infrastructure for this car's still evolving? :confuse:

    Wrt body-mounted rear-most door weatherstrips, they seem to be reforming to their original shape and are not being pitched by the added "wheel well" trim.

    I'm curious...do any other '09 Forester owners see a groove in this weatherstrip? The strips' grooving/additional lip starts from the lower rocker panel to about 6" above the rocker panel, then gradually blends into the weather stripping.
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,675
    I keep hearing rumors of an upcoming Forester STI—and that would likely have a 6-speed. ;) They've done it before, so there's no reason not to expect one in the future. Now they just need to bring it over here.

    http://www.carspace.com/arvin1/Albums/Japan%20cars/originals/subaru-forester-sti- -version-9646.jpg/photo/v./original.jpg

    Bob
  • p0926p0926 Posts: 4,423
    Yeah if they brought the Forester STi over here I'd really be in trouble!

    Anybody still have the link for the British car magazine comparison between the Forester STi and WRX STi? I'll never forget the woman driver's reaction to the acceleration and cornering of the Forester (to say she was surprised is an understatement).

    -Frank
  • Anyone have a pic of what the Sports grille looks like? Less chrome I hope!
  • skeletonskeleton Posts: 37
    Is Bluetooth included in the iPod kit?

    I was looking for Bluetooth but haven't seen it listed with any of the accessories.
  • batman47batman47 Posts: 606
    I have read a number of forums and participants and I have learn that many of them are like ‘mum’ or ‘grand ma’, i.e. It doesn’t matter what naughty the child is (i.e. vehicle) or how many faults the child (vehicle) has, ‘mum’ or ‘grand ma’ will always prise the child as faultless and look somewhere else for naughtiest child to justify the child faults. What lack is objectivity in judgments by fears to upset followers that want to read just one side of a coin?

    I have the most sympathy for owner of the new Forester who, perhaps of bad luck got in the first week of buying the vehicle some problems (little faults). I have also experienced these horrible disappointments that eat your flesh, just to be told by people, like here in this forum that he should be in high spirits with the rattles in his car, because many others vehicles has more rattles. Is this a consolation? Or more salt onto the wounds. Mates I have had a Hyundai Tucson for 3 years with more than 60K miles, and although the vehicle was not a proper off road I used the vehicle as a proper off road. Before I sold it I did not have any experience of any rattle and the vehicle was a Hyundai (supposed to be a junk vehicle).
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Before I sold it I did not have any experience of any rattle and the vehicle was a Hyundai (supposed to be a junk vehicle).

    They are not junk, but there are people who have had their fair share of problems with Hyundais also. Citing Hyundai as an example of a shining star is perhaps the worst possible example. That's like saying I never had a gas tank explosing in my Pinto. :shades Unfortunately lately, no manufacturer, maybe except for Porsche is seems to be immune from issues.
  • batman47batman47 Posts: 606
    Sometimes I ask myself why all of this fuss about the Subaru reliability and its ‘Boxer’ horizontal engine (instead of vertical). The only advantage I can see is the center of gravity of the whole vehicle in comparison with the V6 or 6-in line or 4-cyl (vertical). There is, however, one point that is forgotten and this is the extra force of gravity on a horizontal piston edges that inexorably will eventually create problems in a boxer engine. This is what the physics law may say but I have seen few forums about the need to change piston rings after 80K miles for example. Subaru is an exclusive technological club and this is based fundamentally in its engine design that not body want to copy as a replacement if it is so great.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    but I have seen few forums about the need to change piston rings after 80K miles for example.

    Can you cite some sources this is a widespread problem? Or, did two people post on a forum and now this is a catastrophic issue. Inexorably all cars will have issues. The Foresters in general will have less than most. I fully agree some model years have been problematic, but that can be said for every manufacturer on earth. Subaru isn't exempted nor does it lead the charge.
  • batman47batman47 Posts: 606
    I still have a Lexus SC300 V6 3.L with more than 125K miles and this engine is still running smooth and so far the engine is still virgin. With the Subaru engines I have read a number of owners saying that they changed the piston rings at about 70K-80K miles. However they talked like this was a routine maintenance duty as for example changing timing belt or thermostat, etc. My reason is that the only difference between these two designs is the position of the piston that moves horizontally million of times per year. Each of this movement by the physics law carried an extra force (i.e. gravity force) that pushes down the piston harder to the walls of the piston. This is just a hypothesis.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    still have a Lexus SC300 V6 3.L with more than 125K miles and this engine is still running smooth and so far the engine is still virgin

    I can post some links to owners who have had Lexus lemons with sludge problems.

    With the Subaru engines I have read a number of owners saying that they changed the piston rings at about 70K-80K miles.

    If you read these boards, there are members who have had trouble free ownership well into the hundreds of thousands of miles. You have no substianted proof of any systematic issue. The layout of the engine alows the Subaru handle much better than the competition. Are there trade-offs? Absolutely. Buying a car is one huge trade-off.

    Each of this movement by the physics law carried an extra force (i.e. gravity force) that pushes down the piston harder to the walls of the piston. This is just a hypothesis.

    Are you aware a number of Porsche engines have the same basic layout? Horizontally opposed sixes. Are you aware that Porsche engines are vitually indestructable? I'm not saying the Subie engine is made with the same meticulousness as the Porsche, but if what you say is true, Porsche engines would be breaking left and right alongside of Subie engines.
  • p0926p0926 Posts: 4,423
    Ken- I swear you're almost as bad as Juice in allowing yourself to be so easily baited into responding to nonsense posts :P

    Having said that, I can't resist myself in responding to the most outlandish statement :)

    Each of this movement by the physics law carried an extra force (i.e. gravity force) that pushes down the piston harder to the walls of the piston. This is just a hypothesis.

    Yeah a dumb hypothesis :D Using the same argument, V-6/8/12 engines would also be more susceptible to the "forces of gravity". Which means that the inline engine is the only good design. Huh.

    The reason there are dozens of car manufacturers and hundreds of models is that everyone has different needs, wants, preferences and priorities. The Subaru Forester is obviously not the best choice for many people but... it is for some.

    -Frank

    Edit- Uh oh, it looks like Sam agrees with the inline engine design ;)
  • samiam_68samiam_68 Posts: 775
    The Lexus SC300 never had a V6 - it had an inline-6. Inline 6 configuration is by far the smoothest engine setup you can have, not requiring any balance shafts or dampers to run without any vibrations. The Subaru boxer setup is on the opposite end of the spectrum - this engine is by design prone to vibration at idle, and, due to the H-format, cannot even have a balance shaft - no place to put it.
  • batman47batman47 Posts: 606
    Subaru price are not more than $35K; Porsche vehicle are not less than $60K. Perhaps the piston rings in the Porsche vehicles are made of a very, very friction resistant metal (and very expensive) to stand the extra force due to gravity. I have a Porsche Cayenne cataloge just in front of me and I am afraid to tell you that the engines of this vehicle are either V6 or V8 layout. So you see, if what you said is true then Porsche has been wise to make the big jump from Boxer configuration to V6 or V8 configuration (I am talking about the 2008 Porsche Cayenne SUV).

    With regards to the sludge matter in some Lexus SC300 this has nothing to do with piston design horizontal/vertical piston.
  • p0926p0926 Posts: 4,423
  • kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Posts: 1,724
    ....but Subaru USA canceled the Manual version of the Forester XT because they weren't selling here! Of course that's the one the car mags and enthusiasts wanted - so why weren't more of them sold?

    As for an STI version of the Forester? How many STI's does Subaru sell wrt total Impreza sales?
    If Subaru were to do this for the USA, I suspect it might open a new niche. Would Toyota RAV4 TRD, or Mitsubishi EVOLander, or Honda CR-V-SI, be far behind?
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    With regards to the sludge matter in some Lexus SC300 this has nothing to do with piston design horizontal/vertical piston.

    Your point is about engine failures, Lexus has had it's share.

    I think this entire board, the moderators and Subaru would really, really like to know more about your hypothesis. Can you prove a scintilla of what you infer?

    I didn't think so.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Ken- I swear you're almost as bad as Juice in allowing yourself to be so easily baited into responding to nonsense posts :P

    Frank - over the years at edmunds I've seen some very outrageous statements, but this takes the cake.
  • The Topaz Gold Metallic is the color of my new baby :shades: .
    Thanks for the information on the Tweeters and subwoofers. Now I have to decide on the Sirius radio. If I had to do over, I would order the Ipod interface kit instead of the Sirius radio. Good news, that I have not it it installed, but the dealership already ordered it (Sirius radio) :mad: . Oh well! I guess in am stuck with Sirius!
  • p0926p0926 Posts: 4,423
    Of course that's the one the car mags and enthusiasts wanted - so why weren't more of them sold?

    Well according the SOA, there's not enough enthusiasts to justify the costs :(

    I'd love to see Subaru bring the Forester STi to the U.S. but clearly it would only appeal to a very small segment of the population. With the canceling of the XT manual, I suspect that the odds of ever getting the STi have gotten even more remote :cry:

    -Frank
  • bigfrank3bigfrank3 Posts: 426
    Well, there are other laws of Physics at play here, fluid dynamics. The rings ride on a thin film of an incompressible fluid, oil, and that force easily overcomes any created by gravity. Cylinder bores are never dry, as long as there is oil pressure, and even though there are "scraper" rings to clean off extra oil there is always some there. This is why ALL engines burn at least a small amount of oil.

    In addition a 4 stroke boxer engine has perfect primary balance, and a small amount of secondary vibration which is dampened by the flywheel. Primary balance is much more important than secondary.

    http://www.subaru.com.sg/dif/dif02.htm

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_balance

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_engine

    A quote from the last link:

    "One benefit of using a boxer engine versus a V-engine is that the design provides good balance because each piston's momentum is counterbalanced by the corresponding piston movement of the opposite side. Boxers are one of only four layouts that have a natural dynamic balance; the others being the straight-6, the V12 and the wankel engine. These engines can run very smoothly and free of vibrations with a four-stroke cycle and do not require a balance shaft or counterweights on the crankshaft to balance the weight of the reciprocating parts, which are required in other engine configurations. Note that this is generally true of boxer engines regardless of the number of cylinders, but not true for all V and straight, or inline engines."
  • batman47batman47 Posts: 606
    A hypothesis is just a hypothesis. The answer to any hypothesis is true or false. If you don’t like my hypothesis then show me that it is ‘false’.

    Some centuries ago Copernicus (The Polish astronomic) dare to say that planet earth is not the center of the universe. He made many enemies because of this. It has to pass many years after his death to be shown that indeed the ‘Sun’ was the center of the universe not the earth. You mates give it just a thought about this gravity force on the horizontal piston and if you have some physics knowledge you may not disregard the possibility of this phenomena indeed happen. I could just demonstrate my hypothesis by saying that nobody has copy the layout of Subaru engine in spite of the fact that the patent for this Subaru engine can be obtained free from the USA Congress Library.

    Equally Diesel the French mechanics that invented the diesel engine at the start of the last century, there were so many economical interests involve that conveniently Diesel was found death and his death was declared a suicidal act. Nobody talked again about the diesel engine for 20 years.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    A hypothesis is just a hypothesis. The answer to any hypothesis is true or false. If you don’t like my hypothesis then show me that it is ‘false’.

    I do not need to show any truth or false. You made an outrageous claim that Subaru Boxer engines are not reliabile due to the layout. You need to show it's true. I don't need to show it's false.

    Let me know when you have some substantive authoritative proof. Not some random posting on the internet.
  • jeffmcjeffmc Posts: 1,742
    waiting4tiguan - you can view a couple shots of the Sport grille on this page:
    http://www.cars101.com/subaru/forester/forester2009photos1.html
  • tinycadontinycadon Posts: 287
    Batman47, you're half right, a hypothesis can be proven to be false, but not true.

    "A hypothesis is just a hypothesis. The answer to any hypothesis is true or false. If you don’t like my hypothesis then show me that it is ‘false’."

    Hypothesis

    A hypothesis is an educated guess, based on observation. Usually, a hypothesis can be supported or refuted through experimentation or more observation. A hypothesis can be disproven, but not proven to be true.

    Example: If you see no difference in the cleaning ability of various laundry detergents, you might hypothesize that cleaning effectiveness is not affected by which detergent you use. You can see this hypothesis can be disproven if a stain is removed by one detergent and not another. On the other hand, you cannot prove the hypothesis. Even if you never see a difference in the cleanliness of your clothes after trying a thousand detergents, there might be one you haven't tried that could be different.

    Theory

    A scientific theory summarizes a hypothesis or group of hypotheses that have been supported with repeated testing. A theory is valid as long as there is no evidence to dispute it. Therefore, theories can be disproven. Basically, if evidence accumulates to support a hypothesis, then the hypothesis can become accepted as a good explanation of a phenomenon. One definition of a theory is to say it's an accepted hypothesis.
  • batman47batman47 Posts: 606
    I don’t think I claimed that the Subaru is unreliable as whole. I have just mentioned possible reasons of Subaru owners for disassembly the engine to deal with abnormal were off of piston components after 70K-80K miles that is all.

    I am sorry to bring the question of the gravity forces involvement in an engine piston, let’s move on with another subject.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    I am sorry to bring the question of the gravity forces involvement in an engine piston, let’s move on with another subject.

    What Subaru owners? All two of them? Did you know Lexus had a major sludge issue? You should be more worried about that, than the Subaru owners who disassembled their engines.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    I have just mentioned possible reasons of Subaru owners for disassembly the engine to deal with abnormal were off of piston components after 70K-80K miles that is all.

    I have not heard of this issue and have no interest or time in finding out if this is even true. Seems to me CR would have reported on this.

    My hypothesis: Your hypothesis was baloney.
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