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Ford and GM Small Displacement Direct Injection Turbo Engines

hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,311
GM just announced that, like Ford, it will introduce some small displacement, direct injection turbos, to help comply with the new CAFE mileage standards. According to the announcement, GM will offer a 1.4 liter four cylinder version of this type of engine in the Cobalt next year.

Ford will call its new engines EcoBoost. They'll cost $300-$400 more than conventional, normally aspirated engines, which is a lot smaller premium than diesels and hybrids. Ford estimates the pay back, through fuel savings, will be about 3-4 years, on average. That's a shorter time than the pay back period for diesels and hybrids. It's expected that there will be no performance penalty.

Do you think consumers will go for these new, smaller engines? Would you buy a car that's equipped with one?

Comments

  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,311
    Sorry, please correct the spelling of "engines" in the title of this discussion. Thanks.
  • dtownfbdtownfb Posts: 2,915
    >

    It all depends on the performance of the turbo and the fuel economy. If you're talking 2-3 mpg, then no cause I can get a Civic, Versa, mazda 3 (2.0L), Sentra, Elantra with better gas mileage. If you are talking 5-7 mpg, then you have my interest. Although the new Focus' interior is much improved over the last model.

    do you have a link to the article? maybe they mention the fuel economy in the article.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,311
    There's an article about it in AutoWeek. It doesn't mention the anticipated mileage.
  • michaellnomichaellno Posts: 4,300
    The other issue is HP and torque. The NA 1.4 puts out only 90HP ... if the turbo version put out 120-140HP and improves fuel economy by the 5-7 MPG as stated in an earlier post, then I believe that both GM and Ford will benefit from using this engine in a variety of vehicles.
  • dtownfbdtownfb Posts: 2,915
    Would the turbo engines require premium gas for optimum performance?
  • michaellnomichaellno Posts: 4,300
    Would the turbo engines require premium gas for optimum performance?

    That is an excellent question.

    If the answer is "Yes", then any improvement in MPG could be offset by the increased fuel price.

    When we were looking for a small SUV a few years ago for my wife, we test drove and loved the Subaru Outback 2.5XT. As soon as I mentioned that it required premium fuel, the wife crossed it off her list.

    Daughter feels the same way about the Mini Cooper - even the NA version requires premium.

    Here in Colorado, premium translates to 89 octane -- I don't think 91 octane is available anywhere.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    So the 1.4 liter 4 cylinder I heard about from a customer is true ??? :surprise: Well it sounds like a good idea but I'd still like to see a small diesel as a option also !!! ;)

    -Rocky
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,311
    "Well it sounds like a good idea but I'd still like to see a small diesel as a option also !!!"

    Just wait; you will.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,311
    From the Detroit Free Press, "Power comes from a new 2.2-liter turbodiesel that produces a serious 340 pound-feet of torque -- 20 more than the 4.6-liter V8 in a Mustang GT."

    Now a 4 cylinder turbodiesel, no matter how powerful, just wouldn't fit the Mustang's image, any more than a quiet, high revving, smooth engine would befit a Harley, but it does make one think.
  • kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Posts: 1,749
    All those with these new DI engines should have their favorite mechanic keep tabs on how much carbon builds up on the intake valves.
    DI engines have had this problem for several years, with the euro engines possibly having the most buildup.
    I learned this from various forums as well as info provided by a leading oil specialist researching cleaning methods (sorry, I can't say any more about the latter).
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 6,780
    Would the turbo engines require premium gas for optimum performance?

    Who cares? Let's assume that the price difference between regular and premium is 25 cents. If you own a car that gets 25 mpg and you drive it 15,000 miles annually the price differential works out to the huge sum of
    I hope you are sitting down
    $150 per year
    That's a whopping $12.50 per month, or 41 cents per day.
    Big deal...

    2009 328i / 2004 X3 2.5/ 1995 318ti Club Sport/ 1975 2002A/ 2007 Mazdaspeed 3/ 1999 Wrangler/ 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica

  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 6,780
    edited June 2011
    DI engines have had this problem for several years, with the euro engines possibly having the most buildup.

    That issue concerns me as well. My 2007 Mazdaspeed3 produces adequate power(287 bhp with a Mazdaspeed CAI) and returns good fuel economy(25 mpg-30 mpg, depending on driving conditions), but the valve deposit issue makes me hesitate to keep it past 100,000 miles.

    2009 328i / 2004 X3 2.5/ 1995 318ti Club Sport/ 1975 2002A/ 2007 Mazdaspeed 3/ 1999 Wrangler/ 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica

  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,627
    edited July 2011
    Good review of the new Buick Regal CXL Turbo engine in this Wall St. Journal story, but most of the info may be registration only.

    "The engine—intercooled, direct injection, 16-valve—is punchy, eager, with ample low-end torque (258 pound-feet at 2,000 rpm) and the kind of seamless flexibility across the rev range you'd have expected from larger, naturally aspirated engines. You can thank the clever engine-management software, and variable valve timing, for that.

    And the car is quick. If you stand on the gas, the Regal Turbo will chirp and wiggle its way to 60 mph in about 7 seconds, quite respectable for a car weighing nearly 3,800 pounds. At highway speeds it has surprising reserves of orneriness. "

    From Buick, an Engine Lacking Nothing but a Roar

    Moderator
    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,311
    edited July 2011
    Good article, Steve, but it contains a mistake; the Hyundai Sonata turbo displaces 2.0 liters, not 2.4, which is the displacement of the naturally aspirated Sonata. The Sonata turbo generates significantly more horsepower and torque than the Regal Turbo (274 vs. 220 and 269 vs. 258, respectively), while delivering better fuel economy. The Sonata also beats the Regal on price. All this doesn't necessarily mean that the Sonata is the better car, since the Regal may have some compensating attributes, such as refinement, over the Sonata. We'll soon find out, since I imagine there will be a comparison before too long.

    Also, at 3800 lbs., the Regal is porky for its size, don't you think?

    I wonder how many people will cross shop the Regal and the Sonata?
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,627
    In my town, people will only shop Buicks. I see one foreign car for every ten Big 3 rides. :shades:

    Moderator
    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 6,780
    I live near Louisville, which has two Ford assembly plants, I'd say that the domestic/import ratio is 50/50.

    2009 328i / 2004 X3 2.5/ 1995 318ti Club Sport/ 1975 2002A/ 2007 Mazdaspeed 3/ 1999 Wrangler/ 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica

  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,713
    Michigan will be like that!

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 1,785
    And within a few hundred miles of us we have a huge Toyota plant (in state) and a huge Honda plant (Indiana)...I agree with you--somewhere around 50/50.
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 6,780
    I know a couple of guys who work at the Chamberlain Lane Ford plant. Both guys have Ford pickups, but one guy also has a 3 Series and the other guy has a Camry.

    2009 328i / 2004 X3 2.5/ 1995 318ti Club Sport/ 1975 2002A/ 2007 Mazdaspeed 3/ 1999 Wrangler/ 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica

  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,627

    "Here's another remarkable fact about our scarlet nubbin: one liter, as in, one tiny, spectacularly optimized liter of displacement across a three-cylinder turbocharged engine, what Ford calls its EcoBoost technology. A $995 option on the Fiesta SFE model, the 1.0-liter EcoBoost helps the 2014 Fiesta claim the title of most fuel-efficient nonhybrid sold in North America, with an EPA-estimated highway mileage of 45 mpg.

    But this engine is Godzilla in a shoebox:

    Ford says this 1.0-liter is the most power-dense engine it has ever made. Super-small, in other words. The cast-iron block can fit on an 8½-x-11 piece of paper."

    Ford Fiesta's Little Engine Is Mighty (Wall St. Journal)

    Moderator
    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

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