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BMW 335d 2009+

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  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,363
    AWD 'Vette link.

    link title

    Regards,
    OW
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 6,357
    I don't have an ego, genius

    That's great! You'll probably be a much better student when you finally do decide to participate in an HPDE.

    Nowhere in there was I calling anyone out and saying they were untallented(sic).

    So THAT is why you compose a post entitled "I see posers(sic)" which includes comments such as:

    "I detect egos outstrip their skill by a wide margin." and
    "Don't pretend like liking a more basic car makes you more skillful."

    But many are claiming that anyone driving cars with electronic traction aids are incompetent drivers.

    No, we are claiming that incompetent drivers use the stability and traction control technology as a crutch. These drivers rely on the safety nannies to save their bacon and thus they never learn basic car control skills.

    Fun little computers would save your life in the Mazda. If you think otherwise, yeah, I'll put that to the test

    Well, bring it on; when I want to make time in the MS3, I disable the DTC...

    You can pick any other FWD car that has no electronic locking front diff, and I'll take the Mazda.

    Well, I hate to break it to you, but if you take the MS3 you won't have a magic electronic diff either. You see, Mazdaspeed fits a mechanical LSD.

    But considering you and I seem to like the same types of cars, who you should be challenging is someone who claims they are more talented because they hate electronic traction control and you don't.

    Nope, you are the one who started the poseur thread, so it's time for you to step up- but I'm not holding by breath. When you are ready to test your assertions in the real world -as opposed to relying on magazine articles- we'll discuss this further.

    2009 328i / 2004 X3 2.5/ 1995 318ti Club Sport/ 1975 2002A/ 2007 Mazdaspeed 3/ 1999 Wrangler/ 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica

  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    become little more than a food fight, let's take a break before the walls get any gloppier.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    I'm reopening this thread. Let's stick to the car this time and leave the personal and off-topic comments for some other world. :)
  • jlbljlbl Posts: 1,333
    Last month I bought a 335d coupe. Having put 2,000 miles in her odometer by now, I can say the more I drive her, the more I like it.

    With this car I am doing 32.7 miles•gallon at best (cruising at 80 miles•hour) and 19.7 in town & commuting. Before this car I owned a 530d sedan, which was more economic (36.6 miles•gallon, my cruising average after four years).

    Though I was very satisfied with that 5-Series diesel, the driving comparison between both cars forces me to forgive the 335d higher fuel consume.

    I asked Pat to re-open the thread just in case people is interested in discussing first-hand information on this car, her driving, etc.

    Regards,
    Jose
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,886
    Do you know anyone with an X5 diesel? What kind of mileage are they getting. Not that I am holding my breath for anything decent to offered in the USA. Thanks for the info.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Congratulations on the new ride. ;)

    Question: Over here there is a rumor that when the 335d hits our shores, it will be in the form of an automatic only. What transmission does your car have?

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • coupedncalcoupedncal Posts: 252
    Do we know if the engine being offered in 2009 335d and X5d here in the US is going to be same as what is being currently offered in Europe? How does it compare with the two diesel engines offered in X5 in Europe until last year. I believe one was regular diesel and one was with a turbo diesel.
  • jlbljlbl Posts: 1,333
    Reply to Gagrice and Coupedncal:

    Do you know anyone with an X5 diesel? What kind of mileage are they getting.

    No, I don't know X5 real mileage. Those mileages I post below are the officials; based on my experience with my former and current diesels, they might well be underestimated at least to a 15%.

    How does it compare with the two diesel engines offered in X5 in Europe until last year. I believe one was regular diesel and one was with a turbo diesel

    Currently there are two X5 diesel versions offered in Europe. One is the 3.0d, the other the 3.0sd. Both have L6 engines, each with a capacity of 2,993 cc; both have automatic Steptronic transmissions and Brake Energy Regeneration. Sport suspension is optional for each.

    But the 3.0d engine comes with one turbo, delivers 210 hp and 126 miles•h at 4,000 r•m, and gets 0-60 miles•h in 8.1 sec; CO2 emissions are of 214 gr•km (EU4). Mileage (urban/road/combined, EU4): 23.1 /34.1 / 29.0 miles•gallon.

    In turn the 3.0sd has twin turbos, 286 hp / 141 miles•h at 4,400 r•m, 0-60 miles•h in 7.0 sec. and 216 gr•km CO2 emissions (it also meets EU4 regs.).
    Mileage (urban/road/combined, EU4): 22.8 / 33.6 / 28.7 miles•gallon.

    I hope this helps in rising your expectations. Of course, I don't know the final specs of the X5s eventually going to the USA.

    Regards,
    Jose
  • jlbljlbl Posts: 1,333
    Congratulations on the new ride.

    Many thanks. :)

    Over here there is a rumor that when the 335d hits our shores, it will be in the form of an automatic only. What transmission does your car have?

    Automatic Steptronic. It is just 335d coupe standard equipment; there is even no option in getting the manual with three pedals. M Sport suspension is also standard with the 335d coupe.

    I had little experience with automatic trannies, and most of it driving rented cars when visiting the USA. On the other hand, all my life I have liked to change gears by my own, in order to control the engine revs up and down so as to brake with the engine or cornering and accelerating matching the best revs. Thus, I had wished 6 gears manual with three pedals for my 335d.

    However, some posters in other Edmunds thread told me I should not be worried with the BMW Steptronic (thanks are dued to them): it is soft and unnoticed in the automatic modes, and quick and efficient in the manual setting. (It also apparently adapts itself to your way of driving.)

    After using the Steptronic for a while (specially in the M mode) I am happy I do not gave up the 335d coupe deal because of the transmission item. In short, in the M mode the Steptronic allows me the same sort of changing tips I am used to do with the classic manual tranny (except skip gears in between). When I set myself in an economic-driving humour, M mode is also more fuel greedy than the automatic modes. My only concern is that the size and placement of the two remaining pedals are not so friendly to the heel and toe maneuver as they were in the 530d, for instance.

    Regards,
    Jose

    PS: 335d coupe has an oil dipstick ;)
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Cool, thanks for the information. So basically my choices are buy a gasoline engined car WITH a stick shift or buy a diesel engined car WITH a dip stick. They both have a single stick, unfortunately I want a car with two sticks. :p

    Between the two I'll choose a car with a stick shift over a car with a dip stick. :sick:

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • jlbljlbl Posts: 1,333
    Shipo,

    You might as well buy a 330d, a 530d or a 123d if they will eventually come to the USA: every one has two sticks to the best of my knowledge. I can say than the BMW –30 diesel engines are indeed very, very good ones.

    (And the 118d (4 cyl.) I recently drove carring on one more person and full luggage for two weeks along a 2,000 trip up and down mountain roads was amazing—especially when added performance to fuel economy!)

    Regards,
    Jose
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,244
    Jose,

    I certainly hope the smaller diesels with both a proper manual transmission and a dipstick come to the U.S., if we all live long enough. I recently had to give up on rear-wheel drive to get a car with both, but would prefer a small-displacement BMW diesel. I purposely picked my most recent car to have a high resale value in 2-4 years when, if they're ever going to, the more basic BMW diesels will have arrived.

    Sadly, I believe they may never make it here, especially if diesel fuel continues to be 35% more expensive than gasoline over here, a fairly recent development.

    I'm sure you'll continue to enjoy your 335d -- for me, that 118d would probably be a perfect car, or a 320d sport wagon. Time will tell if I'll ever get the opportunity.
  • fphjr01fphjr01 Posts: 3
    What is the torque limit for the 6-spd in the 3-series? The 335d has quite a torque bump over even the 335i. I think 335i + dinan chip still doesn't have the 425 ft-lbs or so that the 335d packs -- could be why no manual is offered. With the diesel, though, I think the manual is less helpful than gas where it is good to work the rpm's -- diesel has power pretty much everywhere in the engine band. Not to say that rowing your own gears isn't fun, just that its probably not as rewarding in a diesel.

    I have a manual now, and I like it -- except in NJ traffic, which is basically everyday.

    Also I was hoping to see a little better than 32mpg, even though it was obtained at 80+ avg mph. The problem is that even with better fuel economy, the price bump of diesel over premium gas is getting close to that 30% fuel economy benefit, making it a total wash. Too bad there was no 335d about 5 years ago.
  • jlbljlbl Posts: 1,333
    What is the torque limit for the 6-spd in the 3-series?
    330d, stick and three pedals, 369/1750–3000 lb-ft/rpm
    (335d, auto Steptronic, 428/1750–2250 lb-ft/rpm)

    With the diesel, though, I think the manual is less helpful than gas where it is good to work the rpm's -- diesel has power pretty much everywhere in the engine band. Not to say that rowing your own gears isn't fun, just that its probably not as rewarding in a diesel.
    Yeah, with such a torque there is enough 'reprise' under your foot in almost any circumstance. However, is good to feel the grip and power that the rightly rev engine gives you when cornering and accelerating.

    Also I was hoping to see a little better than 32mpg, even though it was obtained at 80+ avg mph.
    I hope I will be able to get better mileage further ahead. On the one hand, those 32 mpg were obtained with 3 persons and their luggage within the car within hard engine break-in period. On the other hand, real break-in is longer in diesel engines. With my former 530d I obtained 34.6 in the first year, 36.2 in the second year, and 37.9 in the third and four ones (my own all-road average).
    However, it is true that increasing diesel fuel price can wash away the mileage benefit. It is still not the case over here, but it may well be in the future if diesel fuel taxation increases as in the last year.

    Regards,
    Jose
  • mr42hhmr42hh Posts: 9
    So according to the BMW UK website, compared to the 328i, the 335d is 0.2 seconds quicker to 62 MPH and gets 2.2 MPG better economy. The 335d is also £2,000 more expensive than the 335i.

    The £2,000 is mostly the price of the automatic gearbox, which is standard on the 335d, but not on the models you compared it to.
    So you just compared automatic/manual acceleration and fuel economy numbers. Not a good idea.
  • jlbljlbl Posts: 1,333
    I posted this in other Edmunds thread today:

    I have just read (Spring issue of BMW Magazine over here) that BMW is launching Advanced Diesel with BluePerformance in the USA next Fall. Reportedly they will sell 335d sedans and X5's. On BMW Magazine on-line there is already some promotional video. Interested posters may have a look at:

    link title

    It is old news to you?

    Regards,
    Jose
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,886
    I'll be waiting for that X5 for sure. I like the handling of the X5 a lot. With the diesel it would be a great vehicle.
  • nopcbsnopcbs Posts: 43
    The mileage improvement of the 335d vs. the 328i is, if BMW's own numbers are right, simply inadequate given that; (1) diesel here is running up to 20% higher in cost and (2) you get to pay extra for the diesel engine. BMW is also not planning to import the manual transmission (so much for BMW being run by "car guys") with the diesel.

    I think the big problem is that they don't want to hurt their image in this country by importing diesel (and manual transmission) cars that would have less than sprightly performance. This is the same stupid (sorry, it's true) mindset that stops them from importing the 1-Series hatch (with a diesel or without) and instead they import the "answer to a question no one asked" coupe. Local BMW dealer says the 1-Series coupes are a tough sell when you look at price vs. 3-Series --- and customers do. Dumb.
  • jlbljlbl Posts: 1,333
    Let me to take part in your conversation. :)

    There is no 335d model (Sedan, Touring, Coupe) equipped with manual transmission in Europe.

    As for consume, my 335d Coupe is averaging 32 miles per gallon on highway/road and 21 miles per gallon in town along her first 5,000 miles. Not enough distance for the engine to have being properly broken-in, however.

    But I think it is more objective to compare the 335d performance and consume not to those of 328i but 335i models.

    Regards,
    Jose
  • cctdicctdi Posts: 82
    For those who love the diesel engines, please keep this forum alive and updated; I got quite a few diesel cars in this passed 5 years; you have to drive a diesel car to appreciate the car; for more than 4 months, I alternately drive Touareg V10 and 335xi, to my suprise, the EPAs on both cars are just about indentical, with much bigger tank in the V10, I don't go to the gas station as often as the 335xi. I am pretty sure the EPA for the 335d will be better than the number mentioned in this forum. I am looking forward to get my hands on the car with Bimmer's diesel engine on it.
  • jlbljlbl Posts: 1,333
    The 3.0-liter inline six cylinder twin-turbo diesel engine develops 265 hp and, get this, 425 lb.-ft. of torque

    The 3.0-liter inline six cylinder twin-turbo diesel engine actually (and nominally) develops 286 hp and 428 lb.-ft. of torque. Also nominally all this powers the 335d from 0-62 mph in 6.1 seconds.

    Regards,
    Jose
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,886
    Sounds like the perfect engine for the BMW X5. I am glad that BMW is sticking with the inline 6 diesel. I am just not a big fan of the V6 configuration. I drove the GL320 CDI and it had plenty of power and acceleration. It is rated 0-60 MPH in 7 seconds. That is a second faster than my gas guzzling V8 Sequoia. I will wait to see if the Mercedes V6 diesel holds up well. I think the earlier inline 6 was probably better.
  • nopcbsnopcbs Posts: 43
    For the reasons stated, a diesel would have to offer at least 20-30% better fuel economy just to break even vs. a gas engine. The 335d that BMW is going to import here is simply not going to cut it.

    I personally would love a diesel with a manual transmission that got truly superior mileage and adequate performance (adequate means 9 sec or better 0-60 mph), but BMW does not think that is anything US buyers want. BMW is simply nuts in this regard, in my opinion.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,886
    The larger E320 CDI gets 37+ MPG out on the highway. I would think the 335D would do as well. I saw diesel today for $4.79 per gallon. Regular at my local Shell is $4.69 and Premium that the 335xi requires was $4.89. That makes the 335D are real bargain.

    I would rather have the smaller diesel that is not so performance oriented also. However the US public are still buying cars based on that 0-60 figure. So I am sure that is what BMW is trying to do. Satisfy the hot dogs. If they sell enough they may bring over some of the high mileage models for our little 3rd world market.
  • jlbljlbl Posts: 1,333
    In the last 15,500 miles of her 62,000 miles (the last year of her four years), my former 2004 530d averaged 38 miles per gallon on a highway/mountain-road mixture (2-3 passengers, heavy luggage most of the time and speeds up to 96 miles per hour on the highway). (0-62 miles is nominally 7.1 secs for 2004 530d bimmers.)

    In her last year as well, that 530d got 42 miles per gallon in quieter highway cruises at 81 miles•hour (cruise-averaged) carrying 2 people with luggage.

    The yearly averaged highway/mountain-road consume of that 530d improved by 8.6% from first to fourth year (35>38 miles per gallon). Thus I expect the yearly-averaged mileage of my present 335d might well improve up to 34.5 miles per gallon in four years.

    My conclusion is that a 530d (and other mono-turbo diesel engines with equal or less displacement) is an excellent consume/performance combination for everyday purposes even with the current diesel prices. Twin-turbo -35d engines are just biased towards performance.

    At the time they decided to introduce the 335d but not other diesels, BMW USA probably thought American buyers would prefer performer diesels instead of frugal ones. Yet the current diesel prices can turn that decision into a very bad one.

    Regards,
    Jose
  • nopcbsnopcbs Posts: 43
    Where I live, MI, regular is $4.05 and diesel is just under $5. Your numbers are much more favorable for diesel and I agree with you that with those numbers the MB diesel (which only adds ~$1,000 to ~2,000 to the cost of an E-class) is a sensible purchase.

    I like the MB diesel. It appears to be a better engine than what BMW is importing into the US, in terms of mileage...using the numbes that BMW has released.

    Again, BMW has chosen to import a diesel model that gives marginally better mileage and costs (likely) considerably more than a comparable gas engine, and uses more expensive (by a lot, in at least some places) fuel...into a fuel-cost crisis environment.

    Someone is asleep at the wheel in Germany.
  • nopcbsnopcbs Posts: 43
    All we have to go by for comparison with BMW gas engines of the 335d diessel to be sold here are BMW's own numbers and they show only marginally better mileage numbers.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,886
    According to Carpages in the UK the 335D SE gets 52.3 highway which converts to 43.55 MPG US. I think our friend in Spain could get close to that if he was driving at a lower speed. By comparison the 335i SE gets 33.64 MPG US out on the Highway. That is about a 25% increase in mileage. The EPA only rates the 335i at 26 MPG highway. Until diesel production catches up with demand in the USA it will be a tough sell. I know when I bought my Passat TDI, diesel fuel was more than regular and I got the car under Invoice. When I sold it diesel was less than regular. So I made $3 grand. Typical American knee jerk reaction.
  • jlbljlbl Posts: 1,333
    driving a lower speed

    Yup, I'm far of being a hypermiler, but my wife is even farther. :blush:

    Regards,
    Jose
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