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BMW 335d 2009+

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  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Cool, thanks for the information. So basically my choices are buy a gasoline engined car WITH a stick shift or buy a diesel engined car WITH a dip stick. They both have a single stick, unfortunately I want a car with two sticks. :p

    Between the two I'll choose a car with a stick shift over a car with a dip stick. :sick:

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • jlbljlbl Posts: 1,333
    Shipo,

    You might as well buy a 330d, a 530d or a 123d if they will eventually come to the USA: every one has two sticks to the best of my knowledge. I can say than the BMW –30 diesel engines are indeed very, very good ones.

    (And the 118d (4 cyl.) I recently drove carring on one more person and full luggage for two weeks along a 2,000 trip up and down mountain roads was amazing—especially when added performance to fuel economy!)

    Regards,
    Jose
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,207
    Jose,

    I certainly hope the smaller diesels with both a proper manual transmission and a dipstick come to the U.S., if we all live long enough. I recently had to give up on rear-wheel drive to get a car with both, but would prefer a small-displacement BMW diesel. I purposely picked my most recent car to have a high resale value in 2-4 years when, if they're ever going to, the more basic BMW diesels will have arrived.

    Sadly, I believe they may never make it here, especially if diesel fuel continues to be 35% more expensive than gasoline over here, a fairly recent development.

    I'm sure you'll continue to enjoy your 335d -- for me, that 118d would probably be a perfect car, or a 320d sport wagon. Time will tell if I'll ever get the opportunity.
  • fphjr01fphjr01 Posts: 3
    What is the torque limit for the 6-spd in the 3-series? The 335d has quite a torque bump over even the 335i. I think 335i + dinan chip still doesn't have the 425 ft-lbs or so that the 335d packs -- could be why no manual is offered. With the diesel, though, I think the manual is less helpful than gas where it is good to work the rpm's -- diesel has power pretty much everywhere in the engine band. Not to say that rowing your own gears isn't fun, just that its probably not as rewarding in a diesel.

    I have a manual now, and I like it -- except in NJ traffic, which is basically everyday.

    Also I was hoping to see a little better than 32mpg, even though it was obtained at 80+ avg mph. The problem is that even with better fuel economy, the price bump of diesel over premium gas is getting close to that 30% fuel economy benefit, making it a total wash. Too bad there was no 335d about 5 years ago.
  • jlbljlbl Posts: 1,333
    What is the torque limit for the 6-spd in the 3-series?
    330d, stick and three pedals, 369/1750–3000 lb-ft/rpm
    (335d, auto Steptronic, 428/1750–2250 lb-ft/rpm)

    With the diesel, though, I think the manual is less helpful than gas where it is good to work the rpm's -- diesel has power pretty much everywhere in the engine band. Not to say that rowing your own gears isn't fun, just that its probably not as rewarding in a diesel.
    Yeah, with such a torque there is enough 'reprise' under your foot in almost any circumstance. However, is good to feel the grip and power that the rightly rev engine gives you when cornering and accelerating.

    Also I was hoping to see a little better than 32mpg, even though it was obtained at 80+ avg mph.
    I hope I will be able to get better mileage further ahead. On the one hand, those 32 mpg were obtained with 3 persons and their luggage within the car within hard engine break-in period. On the other hand, real break-in is longer in diesel engines. With my former 530d I obtained 34.6 in the first year, 36.2 in the second year, and 37.9 in the third and four ones (my own all-road average).
    However, it is true that increasing diesel fuel price can wash away the mileage benefit. It is still not the case over here, but it may well be in the future if diesel fuel taxation increases as in the last year.

    Regards,
    Jose
  • mr42hhmr42hh Posts: 9
    So according to the BMW UK website, compared to the 328i, the 335d is 0.2 seconds quicker to 62 MPH and gets 2.2 MPG better economy. The 335d is also £2,000 more expensive than the 335i.

    The £2,000 is mostly the price of the automatic gearbox, which is standard on the 335d, but not on the models you compared it to.
    So you just compared automatic/manual acceleration and fuel economy numbers. Not a good idea.
  • jlbljlbl Posts: 1,333
    I posted this in other Edmunds thread today:

    I have just read (Spring issue of BMW Magazine over here) that BMW is launching Advanced Diesel with BluePerformance in the USA next Fall. Reportedly they will sell 335d sedans and X5's. On BMW Magazine on-line there is already some promotional video. Interested posters may have a look at:

    link title

    It is old news to you?

    Regards,
    Jose
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,680
    I'll be waiting for that X5 for sure. I like the handling of the X5 a lot. With the diesel it would be a great vehicle.
  • nopcbsnopcbs Posts: 43
    The mileage improvement of the 335d vs. the 328i is, if BMW's own numbers are right, simply inadequate given that; (1) diesel here is running up to 20% higher in cost and (2) you get to pay extra for the diesel engine. BMW is also not planning to import the manual transmission (so much for BMW being run by "car guys") with the diesel.

    I think the big problem is that they don't want to hurt their image in this country by importing diesel (and manual transmission) cars that would have less than sprightly performance. This is the same stupid (sorry, it's true) mindset that stops them from importing the 1-Series hatch (with a diesel or without) and instead they import the "answer to a question no one asked" coupe. Local BMW dealer says the 1-Series coupes are a tough sell when you look at price vs. 3-Series --- and customers do. Dumb.
  • jlbljlbl Posts: 1,333
    Let me to take part in your conversation. :)

    There is no 335d model (Sedan, Touring, Coupe) equipped with manual transmission in Europe.

    As for consume, my 335d Coupe is averaging 32 miles per gallon on highway/road and 21 miles per gallon in town along her first 5,000 miles. Not enough distance for the engine to have being properly broken-in, however.

    But I think it is more objective to compare the 335d performance and consume not to those of 328i but 335i models.

    Regards,
    Jose
  • cctdicctdi Posts: 82
    For those who love the diesel engines, please keep this forum alive and updated; I got quite a few diesel cars in this passed 5 years; you have to drive a diesel car to appreciate the car; for more than 4 months, I alternately drive Touareg V10 and 335xi, to my suprise, the EPAs on both cars are just about indentical, with much bigger tank in the V10, I don't go to the gas station as often as the 335xi. I am pretty sure the EPA for the 335d will be better than the number mentioned in this forum. I am looking forward to get my hands on the car with Bimmer's diesel engine on it.
  • jlbljlbl Posts: 1,333
    The 3.0-liter inline six cylinder twin-turbo diesel engine develops 265 hp and, get this, 425 lb.-ft. of torque

    The 3.0-liter inline six cylinder twin-turbo diesel engine actually (and nominally) develops 286 hp and 428 lb.-ft. of torque. Also nominally all this powers the 335d from 0-62 mph in 6.1 seconds.

    Regards,
    Jose
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,680
    Sounds like the perfect engine for the BMW X5. I am glad that BMW is sticking with the inline 6 diesel. I am just not a big fan of the V6 configuration. I drove the GL320 CDI and it had plenty of power and acceleration. It is rated 0-60 MPH in 7 seconds. That is a second faster than my gas guzzling V8 Sequoia. I will wait to see if the Mercedes V6 diesel holds up well. I think the earlier inline 6 was probably better.
  • nopcbsnopcbs Posts: 43
    For the reasons stated, a diesel would have to offer at least 20-30% better fuel economy just to break even vs. a gas engine. The 335d that BMW is going to import here is simply not going to cut it.

    I personally would love a diesel with a manual transmission that got truly superior mileage and adequate performance (adequate means 9 sec or better 0-60 mph), but BMW does not think that is anything US buyers want. BMW is simply nuts in this regard, in my opinion.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,680
    The larger E320 CDI gets 37+ MPG out on the highway. I would think the 335D would do as well. I saw diesel today for $4.79 per gallon. Regular at my local Shell is $4.69 and Premium that the 335xi requires was $4.89. That makes the 335D are real bargain.

    I would rather have the smaller diesel that is not so performance oriented also. However the US public are still buying cars based on that 0-60 figure. So I am sure that is what BMW is trying to do. Satisfy the hot dogs. If they sell enough they may bring over some of the high mileage models for our little 3rd world market.
  • jlbljlbl Posts: 1,333
    In the last 15,500 miles of her 62,000 miles (the last year of her four years), my former 2004 530d averaged 38 miles per gallon on a highway/mountain-road mixture (2-3 passengers, heavy luggage most of the time and speeds up to 96 miles per hour on the highway). (0-62 miles is nominally 7.1 secs for 2004 530d bimmers.)

    In her last year as well, that 530d got 42 miles per gallon in quieter highway cruises at 81 miles•hour (cruise-averaged) carrying 2 people with luggage.

    The yearly averaged highway/mountain-road consume of that 530d improved by 8.6% from first to fourth year (35>38 miles per gallon). Thus I expect the yearly-averaged mileage of my present 335d might well improve up to 34.5 miles per gallon in four years.

    My conclusion is that a 530d (and other mono-turbo diesel engines with equal or less displacement) is an excellent consume/performance combination for everyday purposes even with the current diesel prices. Twin-turbo -35d engines are just biased towards performance.

    At the time they decided to introduce the 335d but not other diesels, BMW USA probably thought American buyers would prefer performer diesels instead of frugal ones. Yet the current diesel prices can turn that decision into a very bad one.

    Regards,
    Jose
  • nopcbsnopcbs Posts: 43
    Where I live, MI, regular is $4.05 and diesel is just under $5. Your numbers are much more favorable for diesel and I agree with you that with those numbers the MB diesel (which only adds ~$1,000 to ~2,000 to the cost of an E-class) is a sensible purchase.

    I like the MB diesel. It appears to be a better engine than what BMW is importing into the US, in terms of mileage...using the numbes that BMW has released.

    Again, BMW has chosen to import a diesel model that gives marginally better mileage and costs (likely) considerably more than a comparable gas engine, and uses more expensive (by a lot, in at least some places) fuel...into a fuel-cost crisis environment.

    Someone is asleep at the wheel in Germany.
  • nopcbsnopcbs Posts: 43
    All we have to go by for comparison with BMW gas engines of the 335d diessel to be sold here are BMW's own numbers and they show only marginally better mileage numbers.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,680
    According to Carpages in the UK the 335D SE gets 52.3 highway which converts to 43.55 MPG US. I think our friend in Spain could get close to that if he was driving at a lower speed. By comparison the 335i SE gets 33.64 MPG US out on the Highway. That is about a 25% increase in mileage. The EPA only rates the 335i at 26 MPG highway. Until diesel production catches up with demand in the USA it will be a tough sell. I know when I bought my Passat TDI, diesel fuel was more than regular and I got the car under Invoice. When I sold it diesel was less than regular. So I made $3 grand. Typical American knee jerk reaction.
  • jlbljlbl Posts: 1,333
    driving a lower speed

    Yup, I'm far of being a hypermiler, but my wife is even farther. :blush:

    Regards,
    Jose
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