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Mitsubishi Outlander vs. Subaru Forester

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  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    USB input

    Cool.

    songs streamed to it via Bluetooth

    How's the quality on that? I tried a Bluetooth headset with MP3s on my phone and wasn't happy with the sound quality.

    I spoke to my old college roommate who has one, and he mentioned those limitations. He's an IT guy so he knows that stuff well.

    He also said his iPhone loses the bluetooth connection. It works but it drops when he gets in it the next day. What bugs him is that the vehicle has to be stopped to pair it up again. I guess just try your phone before you buy any Bluetooth-enabled device.

    My Garmin and my BlackBerry 8900 were paired up a few days ago and connect automatically when I get in the car. The voice dialing feature works, too, and traffic data is better than I expected (DC capital area).

    I will write up a full review for the GPS & Navigation Devices thread and link it here for reference.

    I'd rather have HD Radio than Sat Radio. XM and Sirius already had to merge, you gotta wonder if they'll even survive much longer.

    Happy wife, happy life. :shades:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    http://www.iihs.org/news/rss/pr111809.html

    Forester makes the list for 2010.

    Outlander was dropped and is no longer a Top Safety Pick for 2010:

    For the first time, good performance in a roof strength test to measure protection in a rollover is required to win

    Small SUVs
    Honda Element
    Jeep Patriot with optional side torso airbags
    Subaru Forester
    Volkswagen Tiguan

    The overall list was pared down to just 27 choices, and notably absent is Toyota/Lexus/Scion.

    Subaru tied VW for the most wins with 4 models.
  • fushigifushigi Posts: 1,241
    Bluetooth
    How's the quality on that?

    Not sure. BT can be problematic sometimes. Worth trying, though, as my phone can stream Pandora pretty nicely and it'd be great to get that in the car.

    iPhones don't impress me to be honest. Too expensive, too many limitations, too much ceding control to Apple, and having to rely on AT&T's poor yet expensive network.

    I've been an IT guy for over 20 years and have watched it evolve from DP to IS to MIS to IT. While I'm knowledgeable in most areas, security is my specialty.

    Agreed on the HD v. Sat Radio.

    I've yet to call my dealer but will do so to line up a '10 Outlander test drive once they're released. Should be in the next couple of weeks. I'm on the fence about buying now. I'm (just past) due for my 150K service but if I buy now I can skip that. And if I buy in '09 the sales tax is a federal deduction. Getting AWD for winter would be nice although I've survived without it so far. Countering that, there's nothing actually wrong with my car and I've maintained it well; it would probably last a few more years. Honestly, I'm just tired of it and am ready for a change.
  • I see, $190 from Costco with popups : --)

    So now we are talking about aftermarket stuff vs. Outlander? Well, would you like perhaps to discuss aftermarket Xenons vs. Outlander Xenons since Forester does not offer any? You can get genuine Mitsubishi HID lighting in multiple colors: blue, green, yellow, etc. How about FAST Key? Any aftermarket DIY options?

    You can also get genuine Mitsubishi wood or chrome dash/door panel/shifter cover/interior accents, or cool blue LED-light “Outlander” sign on the side and bottom of the door opening, just like they offer it on Mercedes, and even LED cigarette lighter (the one which is used by your Costco GPS). EVO racing style interior accents, parking sensors, several stereo systems, bike, kid, boat, dog accessories, and more. I’ve got the Mitsubishi OEM catalog with all this stuff.
    Or, if we discuss “advanced” aftermarket navigation accessories, it’s worth to mention what other Nav you can get from Mitsubishi dealer. Unlike aftermarket units, these Mitsubishi multimedia/navigation accessories are actually compatible with Outlander information and electrical system, so you can access Outlander various car settings, audio, trip computer, etc. so you can get:

    5 Mitsubishi branded multimedia/navigation units.
    image

    2 Clarion units (US brand):

    image

    Carrozzeria unit (Pioneer)

    Eclipse (Fujistsu)
    image
    They include features such as: flash memory or HD based, text-to-speech (TTS) – you can change gender voice, many languages incl. Portuguese, traffic info, USB and SD memory, Gracenote's music database, TV tuner, DVD-Video/DVD-Audio, DIViX, Blutooth audio streaming, iTunes tagging, OEM Steering Remote Ready, motorized LCD, USB, iPod direct control, ID3-TAG display, SAT, Remote, MSN Direct, HD and Satellite radios, color switchable illumination, Mosfet amps, 24-bit DA converter, PC connection for map updates, rear view camera, and more…

    One of them even offers iPhone app-based AVIC feed: you take picture with your iPhone, and it saves your destination in your Nav unit based on Geo Tag.

    I am sorry though that you did not earn any Subaru Bux at Costco since they don't accept your Subaru credit card. Anyway, enjoy your “advanced” Costco-bought / vent-mounted / cigarette-lighter-powered GPS unit with popup advertising.
  • It’s ridiculous, that this thread evolved ( from being Outlander vs. Forester ) into Outlander vs. aftermarket accessories. Obviously Forester has nothing to offer : --)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    HID lighting in multiple colors: blue, green, yellow

    Dude, are you serious?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Safety means nothing to you now? It did a day or two ago.

    Reliability means nothing any more?

    I see, things only matter when Mitsubishi has the edge.
  • tazzitazzi Posts: 23
    but, in terms of driving, handling, reliability & cost to own - what are the major differences between the Outlander and the Forrester. They are both on my short list along with the Equinox.

    I'm curious about the real world driving experience, likes and dislikes for each, etc.
  • >>I see, things only matter when Mitsubishi has the edge.

    When you think Forester has an edge you talk about it. But when you see there no edge you talk about aftermarket accessories. There is really no edge except for large sun roof, which by the way eliminates that good roof safety test.
    .

    >> Safety means nothing to you now? It did a day or two ago.

    You r talking about that new roof strength test. Outlander’s roof test is still rated 3 on 1-4 scale: better then CRV, Escape, Tribute, etc, even though it’s made of aluminum. A softer Outlander roof actually has positive safety implications: it was purposely made of more expensive aluminum to reduce center of gravity, improve handling and prevent rollover. As result of several improvements Outlander has excellent emergency handling / lower rollover risk (see impressive slalom test): great for safety. I mean I’d prefer not to rollover at all, rather than rollover and test the strength of my roof (and my neck). Other available safety features include HID headlamps with Adaptive Front Lighting System which includes automatic leveling, superior AWD system, parking sensors, and a rear view camera.
    .

    >> Reliability means nothing any more?

    I’ve already commented on that. Forester is very reliable, but so is Outlander. Outlander was least 4 years: 2006-2009 CR at the top 4-6 most reliable in class:
    http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2006/11/crreliability2006.jpg
    http://s215240594.onlinehome.us/CR2008_smallsuv.gif
    http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/uptospeed/2009/02/consumer-report.html

    Even though this quarter Forester is higher on CR list, remember that it has older and more proven equipment, and much less features. Example: if Forester does not have FAST Key, or rain sensors, satellite radio, these will never fail. If you house does not have a dishwasher and A/C those will never brake down.

    Subaru sells basic dependable cars equipped with outdated but proven technologies. This helps them to stay on the top of reliability charts and move funds from R&D to marketing, but this strategy may eventually backfire.
  • >>>>HID lighting in multiple colors: blue, green, yellow

    >>Dude, are you serious?

    I am serious, Dude. Glad I could enlighten you about color HIDs:
  • >> but, in terms of driving, handling, reliability & cost to own - what are the major differences between the Outlander and the Forrester...

    * Driving: Forester XT will be quicker in terms of pure acceleration, since it equipped with Mitsubishi turbocharger, and don't even think about non-turbo Forester if you looking for driving fun. Forester's dated 4-speed auto tranny is jerky, while Outlander 6-speed auto is super smooth.

    * In terms of handling and overall driving experience Outlander GT wins: in spectacular slalom test Outlander GT beats every CUV except for $95K BMW X6 M: see my previus post #723. It even beats Mercedes C-Class sedan. Outlander has modern 6-speed tranny with padddle shfters, smooth V6, superior tri-mode AWD system with side-to-side torgue transfer, and superior entertainment.

    * Reliability: Otlander V6 and Forester non-turbo are most reliable and both have excellent reliability, though Outlander offers superior warranty and road side assistance.

    * TCO: Forester will cost you a couple of grands less over the 5 years, but you get what you paid for, or even less. Forester is relatively expensive for what it offers.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I did acknowledge the infotainment system, look back and you'll find it. But why did you feel the need to lie about the capacity and capabilities? 6 Gigs is not even close to 30 Gigs, nor is 9 close to 40. Why embellish?

    I wonder if even the Mitsubishi owners believe you.

    Source for the claim that the Forester IIHS crash tested did not have a moonroof, please?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Glad I could enlighten you about color HIDs

    Add some spinners and that's a game changer. Safey it so overrated.

    That's hilarious. I thought you were kidding.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    First let me ask, what's your budget? Buy or lease? Can you drive stick? Do you want the powerful engines, or the most fuel efficient ones?

    That will help narrow it down.

    Forester has a good balance of ride and handling. It's comfortable and user friendly, has good lateral grip for its class, solid fade-free braking. The turbo has very good acceleration.

    The non-turbo automatic has average for its class acceleration, on par with the 2.4l Outlander with the CVT, CR-V, or 4 cylinder 'nox. If it's "slow" then so is everything else with the base 4 cylinder engine.

    If you want efficiency with a bit more pep, try the manual transmission Forester. CR got 25mpg and it's quicker than any of the base 4-banger automatics. It actually very nearly matches the V6 Equinox in acceleration. Try it out.

    Equinox has Direct Injection engines, very impressive on paper, though road tests have been a bit disappointing. I think it may just be too heavy, but neither engine is particularly quick. 180hp is more than either entry here offers in its base engine, though the PZEV 175hp Forester comes closer, plus the Forester is the only one that offers a manual.

    EPA numbers are better, but CR got 21mpg. Forester 2.5i and Outlander CVT got 22mpg, but the champ here is the Forester manual at 25mpg. Plus it's the quickest of all of those - if you can drive stick.

    If you want a V6 or turbo, the DI 'nox again is well ahead here, with a lot more HP (264), but again it's heavy. CR tested one (Nov 09 issue) and it wasn't as quick as expected, nor as fuel efficient. Comparing mileage, the V6 'nox got 18mpg, 19mpg for the 220hp Outlander V6 (not a 2010), and 20 mpg for the Forester turbo using premium fuel. Forester was quickest, even with the fewer gear ratios accounted for.

    Kudos to Chevy for at least putting a larger gas tank in the V6 model - a whopping 20.9 gallons. But it will have the highest fuel costs. Run Edmunds' TCO tool for an idea of total costs over 5 years, they'll account for everything.

    I have not driven the 'nox yet. I did drive its little brother, the Saturn Vue, and didn't like the electric power steering. No feel at all, reminded me of my Toyota. If you test drive one pay attention to the steering.

    Forester is the only one of the 3 to make the IIHS Top Safety Picks list for 2010. Not sure if the Equinox went through all the tests yet, to even be eligible.

    Forester 2.5i is also ranked #3 in class in terms of reliability, the only model here to make CR's top 6 in class. 'nox is too new to be rated.

    We have an 09 Forester PZEV Limited auto. Despite the haterade here, the transmission is fine. We've owned it for more than a year, not just a test drive around the block. The shifts are smooth and decisive. My Sienna has a 5 speed auto compared to the Forester it hesitates and feels indecisive. It's more than just the number of ratios, it's the feel, so drive it and evaluate this for yourself.

    We've beat 30mpg on a trip, and I've seen 33mpg for short periods. People with stick shifts have gotten tankfuls of more than 32mpg. Very pleased.

    Dislikes? Well, look closely at all of these. The headliners feel like card board with dryer lint or peach fuzz sprayed on. The dashes are not padded, and plastics are hard. Carpets are thin. I'll take a close look at the Equinox come Auto Show season, but both the Forester and Outlander have cheap materials that simply do not belong in a price class beyond $30k or so. Maybe even $25k. :sick:

    We have no regrets. If our Forester was stolen or totalled today, we would buy another Forester. Same model, even.

    Best of luck shopping, and feel free to ask specific questions about the Forester.
  • >> But why did you feel the need to lie about the capacity and capabilities? 6 Gigs is not even close to 30 Gigs, nor is 9 close to 40. Why embellish?

    We’ve never got into details about HD memory allocation for different functions. Please point to my post were I “lie”. “40GB HDD digital music server” or “30GB hard-drive-based music server” with several variations, that what it’s called in many online sources:
    http://www.cars.com/go/crp/research.jsp?section=optionsAndExtras&makeid=34&model- - id=6708&year=2009&myid=10689&acode=USB90MIS032C0&mode=&aff=national

    http://www.thecarconnection.com/bottomline/mitsubishi_outlander_2008

    Your Forester is using only 4.7 Gb DVD for maps. Do you really what to get into conversation about Outlander music server capabilities not knowing once again what you are talking about?



    >> Source for the claim that the Forester IIHS crash tested did not have a moonroof, please?

    The IIHS site states that tests conducted on cars with typical equipment. Large panoramic sun roof is not typical, it’s a $1000 option. Good luck rolling over on that large glass sun roof though.
  • comem47comem47 Posts: 395
    Yes, the newer Equinox looks interesting and MPG looks great. Back in 2007 the Equinox was a different beast altogether and was quickly ruled out. As much as I love my Outlander I have no preconceived allegiance and would have to give this a serious look if I were shopping now(my wife has a 2006 Malibu Maxx V6 that has treated her real well with great MPGs) Chevy has also caught up on the warranty thing with the Outlander for a few years now. (the 100k part, not "or 10 years part")
  • fushigifushigi Posts: 1,241
    Being from the manufacturer it can be considered propaganda, but I find them interesting. As I wouldn't be off-roading (intentionally), I was mostly impressed with the ice video. That is applicable to road conditions that can happen on occasion here in Chicagoland.

    Ice: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b203wKwGrYA&feature=PlayList&p=50AC73FE9DBAA271&i- ndex=1
    Offroad: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmpT9q8puyI&feature=PlayList&p=50AC73FE9DBAA271&i- ndex=0

    As the comparison is against 4WD and not AWD this is probably more valuable for comparing the Outlander v. the RAV4 since the Foreester has an AWD system.

    I also found it interesting that the Outie they used appeared to have normal tires and not snow tires or anything specific for off-road conditions.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Please point to my post were I “lie”. “40GB HDD digital music server” or “30GB hard-drive-based music server”

    Sure.

    More than once:

    http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f185114/705!keywords=allin%3Amsgte- - xt%20limit%3A.f185114%20music%20server#MSG705

    "voice activated 40GB music server"

    and here:

    http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f185114/637!keywords=allin%3Amsgte- - xt%20limit%3A.f185114%20music%20server#MSG637

    "40 GB music server"

    and here you didn't mention it can't copy MP3s:

    http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f185114/15!keywords=allin%3Amsgtex- - t%20limit%3A.f185114%20music%20server#MSG15

    "build-in MP3 music server"

    I bet you wish Edmunds let you edit those right about now. :D
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Your Forester is using only 4.7 Gb DVD for maps

    That's wrong, but I'm going to let you figure out why that's incorrect.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    The IIHS site states that tests conducted on cars with typical equipment

    The moonroof is typical equipment.

    Models without moonroof: X base.

    Models withmoonroof: X Premium, X Limited, XT, and XT Limited.

    4 out of 5 models have it, including the best-selling model.

    So if IIHS tests a typical Forester, than means they tested WITH a moonroof.

    it’s a $1000 option

    Nope, it's not an option, it's standard in all 4 of those models. In fact it is not sold seperately in any model.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    They are available on any Forester model, have been since 12/08, BTW.

    Source: cars101.com.

    Twice chelentano implied they were not, messages #741 and #746.

    Visibility is good enough that they're not necessary, IMHO.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    To clarify once again, you can get satellite radio on a Forester, It's not installed by the dealer, and there is no labor charge for any of these 4 order codes.

    For XM 2 ways to get it:

    Popular Equipment Grp 6A, #F9M order code.
    or a-la-carte, #D9D order code

    For Sirius two ways to get it:

    Popular Equipment Grp 6B, #F9N order code
    or a-la-carte, #D9C order code

    So there are plenty of ways to get satellite radio, but I'd still rather see HD Radio, because it's free!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Interesting ice video.

    No surprise about all the wheel slip in the first one, with traction control off. Fun maybe, but not safe.

    Is the 2nd one the old AWC model, minus the S for Super? It allowed a lot of wheelslip. Is the the old 4WD lock mode? Or AWC without the "Super" part?

    S-AWC on the 2010 does it with much less drama and a lot more control. There's only slip when the driver guns it.

    Reminds me of the videos Subaru came out with in 2006, showing their cars climbing those ramps with rollers. The Subarus also demonstrated very little wheelspin. Systems from Honda, Toyota, and VW struggled.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,252
    In terms of cost to own, Subarus are selling "well" in this current market. No one else really is, except Hyundai. Subie sales were up 41% last month. Mitsubishi sales dropped 48%.

    So the Mitsu dealer may be more willing to deal than your local Subie dealer. Especially on a Forester or an Outback, since the redesigns for those two have been a big success for Subaru. But TMV for both the Forester and the Outlander is running about $500 above invoice on a mid-level trim without options. More like $700 over for the Equinox.

    Novembers typically are lousy months for car dealers and this November is especially bad, so if you are ready to buy "today" you can probably swing a good deal anywhere.

    Moderator
    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Just watched the off road video.

    Here's one from Subaru:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oY-sstA3Ec

    It's long so the highlights are the first 30 seconds (a summary), then at 1:48, when the Forester has one wheel in the air, a trick copied from the Jeep Grand Cherokee at auto shows. They go a step further and open and close the door to demonstrate chassis rigidity.

    They compare to Honda, Toyota, Nissan, and Hyundai.

    In this one a bunch of rally fanatics who would usually compare EVO vs. STI, but they went a little nuts and compared Outlander to the Forester.

    Check out who wins the tug-of-war at 2:36:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C11-5200ehE

    :shades:

    Time for a rematch, though. The current Forester has more low-end torque and the Outlander added S-AWC and 10 horses.
  • fushigifushigi Posts: 1,241
    Subaru should have split the WRX video out as a separate entry. If I was wanting to see just it I'd have been annoyed at waiting through 9 minutes of Forester coverage for that last minute of WRX footage.

    Really, not bad for offroading. But the most I would offroad would be grassy areas that a sedan could probably take and maybe onto a beach. I would have liked to see footage of the Forester handling snow conditions. I'm sure it handles the snow& ice comparably to the Outlander, but I'd like to see a standing takeoff on ice like the Outlander video had. That's a condition I'll actually face from time to time.

    And speaking of snow, that Russian comparo was hard to follow. Except for the getting stuck thing I have no idea which vehicle did better. There were no displayed track times, no side-by-sides, etc. Both vehicles seemed to do fine as near as I could tell.

    Agreed a rematch is due. But I'd hope to have more useful info to glean from it.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Subaru should have split the WRX video

    Absolutely. I guess they were at the same dealer training event, but I agree 100%.

    Russian Rally Fans + lots of vodka + a couple of rivals = madness. Seemed like they had fun. :shades:

    And please, no cheesy techo music. :D
  • fushigifushigi Posts: 1,241
    After posting my response a question popped into my head. What powertrains do Russian Foresters & Outlanders get? I'd imagine we would not be talking the same 2.5 Turbo & 3L V6 engines we get in the US. Maybe a 2L diesel or something?

    Not that it matters when all you do is line up another row of shots. My niece is a bit too fond of Jello shots made w/Vodka. :sick:

    BTW I priced a Forester XT v. Outlander GT and made them as equal as I could. There were definite differences in equipment levels but in the end I had them within $500 of each other with the Mitsu being more expensive. But I would get a Mitsu loyalty rebate which for me would make the Outlander about $70 cheaper. So cost-wise they're a wash at the equipment levels I would choose.

    I have yet to talk to my insurance agent to see which is cheaper to insure.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I think Russia gets the EJ20 2.0l turbo Forester, at least they used to.

    Not sure about the Mitsu, it was an "XL" model.

    Can you use the loyalty cash on an EVO? :shades:
This discussion has been closed.