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Mitsubishi Outlander vs. Subaru Forester

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Comments

  • >> One huge thing against the RAV is that stupid swing door. Think about tight parking along the sidewalk in the city and emptying out the contents in the rear. Oops! :confuse: Opening upwards is clearly better than a door that is in your way. The low height flip down lower tailgate on the Outlander comes in handy hauling over sized loads. (extends the floor and you can drive with the the liftgate up) I thought about buying a RAV until I really THOUGHT about it some more. Other than that I can't fault Toyota.

    A agree. Since the conversation about Outlander - Forester is spreading into other brands, I am moving my response here form the Oulander - Forester thread

    Forester is good basic dependable car, but it's not best in class in any category.

    For instance, best in class per category, small SUV class under $35K:
    * Acceleration: RAV4 V6 (6.3 sec MSN Autos)
    * V6 fuel economy: RAV4 V6?
    * Small SUV CR reliability: Honda Element
    * Handling (slalom): Outlander (faster then any small SUV at any price)
    * Navigation: Outlander (free traffic info and Diamond Line Guidance)
    * Audio System: Outlander (710 watt RF w 10" sub)
    * Warranty/roadside: Outlander (5/10/5 roadside)
    * AWD: Outlander (torque vectoring with Active Yaw Control, 3-mode)
    * Lighting package: Outlander (Xenon/LED standard)
    * Top IIHS safety pick: Honda Element
    * Transmission: Outlander (6-speed with paddles and neutral logic)?
    * Interior?
    * Value?

    Comments, corrections are welcome.
  • >> "That last bit is Japanese hyperbole for an electronic front differential that senses driver inputs, vehicle attitude, and wheel slip to vary engine torque to either of the front wheels with an electronically controlled clutch pack"

    So now when we see the actual quote, tell me, where does it say that S-AWC "operates ONLY on the front axle"???

    It does not. This is your “hyperbole”! All they said that there is electronic front differential.

    Wow, what a big discovery! Hey, it says everywhere including Mitsu site and even initial Outlander GT press release of New York Auto Show: “More than just four-wheel drive, S-AWC is a handling system that provides increased handling, traction and stability. Utilizing a first-in-class active front limited-slip differential and an electronically controlled 4WD coupling, S-AWC can prevent wheel slip between front to rear and side-to-side to enhance tire grip.”

    This is still ALL Wheel Drive and ALL Wheel Control system, which by definition controls ALL wheels, not just front axel. This very S-AWC system produced the spectacular slalom results.
  • >> One huge thing against the RAV is that stupid swing door. Think about tight parking along the sidewalk in the city and emptying out the contents in the rear. Oops! :confuse: Opening upwards is clearly better than a door that is in your way. The low height flip down lower tailgate on the Outlander comes in handy hauling over sized loads. (extends the floor and you can drive with the the liftgate up) I thought about buying a RAV until I really THOUGHT about it some more. Other than that I can't fault Toyota.

    A agree, but since this conversation is spreading into other brands, I am moving my response to the crossover thread
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Nothing says "SUV Value" like the driving the car with the best-in-class lighting package and slalom speed.

    :D
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,661
    "Best in Class" is meaningless if your sales are floundering. Mitsubishi's sales are off year-to-date 46%, and the Outlander is off 26.1% (Outlander is down 54.2% in November as compared to November 2008).

    http://www.autoobserver.com/2009/12/automakers-see-glass-half-full-after-flat-no- - - - vember-sales.html#more

    The question should be; not as to which car, the Forester or Outlander is better; but rather will Mitsubishi remain in the U.S. market. ...And that being the case, would I want to purchase a car from a brand that could well become an orphan in the American market, as the resale value will plummet big time? Also service and warranty issues could become a problem.

    Sure, Mitsubishi will claim they're sticking around, but will they if this trend continues?

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Agree on the poor design of the swing door. It opens the wrong way and needs tons of space. I won't repeat it in the Crossovers thread but I've already mentioned that.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    There's no torque vectoring on the rear axle, I think that's pretty clear. If it could Mitsubishi would mention it.

    3 speed automatic? In what?

    This is another case of let's agree to disagree.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Mitsubishi i MiEV electric vehicle priced at $45,660 in Japan:

    http://www.autoweek.com/article/20090605/CARNEWS/906059997

    * 99 mile range
    * 14 hours to charge @ 110v, 7 hrs at 220v
    * 30 minute charge with high-output quick charger
    * LED headlights (1st Mitsu to do so)
    * eligible for tax credits - $31,170 final cost

    Price in the UK is higher ($69,000 at current exchange rates), though all cars cost more there.

    If they can get US prices down below the Volt's, it could be a neat niche car for them. They're actually adding Lithium Ion batteries, though, so it's likely to cost more than the $31k.

    Still could carve a niche for itself.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    That's not all - you can buy green HID headlight kit.

    Also, the headliner is odor-absorbing, so your flatulence actually does not smell bad!

    You can't make this stuff up.

    PS Forester resale is best in class, 62% on a 3 year lease per car_man, Edmunds' host.
  • >> That's not all - you can buy green HID headlight kit.

    Sure you can complain about Mitsu HID colors , when Forester does not offer any HID :-)
    .

    >> Also, the headliner is odor-absorbing, so your flatulence actually does not smell bad!

    Oh, I see, so if you drive Subaru, then your flatulence does smell bad. :) "You can't make this stuff up."
    .

    >> PS Forester resale is best in class, 62% on a 3 year lease per , Edmunds' host.

    car_man / no_name message board host? :-) Prestigious_nomination.

    I actually got more then 62% out of my Outlander. Bought $26.5K sold: $19k.
    According to the KBB though, the Best Resale Value crossover is C-RV:
    http://mediaroom.kbb.com/kelley-blue-book-announces-winners-2009-best-resale-val- - - ue-awards.
  • >> Nothing says "SUV Value" like the driving the car with the best-in-class lighting package and slalom speed.

    Sure, if these are your priorities. Some may like more the other stuff such as:
    * Navigation: Outlander (free traffic info and Diamond Line Guidance)
    * Audio System: Outlander (710 watt RF w 10" sub)
    * Warranty/roadside: Outlander (5/10/5 roadside)
    * AWD: Outlander (torque vectoring with Active Yaw Control, 3-mode)
    * Transmission: Outlander (6-speed with paddles and neutral logic)?
    * Interior with double stitch leather dash and door panels.
  • >> The question should be; not as to which car, the Forester or Outlander is better; but rather will Mitsubishi remain in the U.S. market.

    No, the question should be; will Subaru remain in the global market, with about 50,000 car annual production decline, this year staggering 3/4 billion dollar loss, and desperate measures to cut costs by going to Chinese suppliers and downgrading car equipment?
  • robm2robm2 Posts: 53
    >> Sure you can complain about Mitsu HID colors , when Forester does not offer any HID

    Where did the HID's on my wife's '09 F-XT come from?

    Headlights: Contoured multi-reflector Xenon High Intensity Discharge (HID) (low beam) with auto levelizer
    http://www.subaru.ca
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    car_man / no_name message board host?

    Now you're insulting our hosts?

    If you don't respect Edmunds, why are you posting here?

    Also, your said your lease was 30 months.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Don't forget the 40 Gig I mean 9 Gig music server where you can rip your old CDs from the 1980s.

    image
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    * Top IIHS safety pick: Honda Element

    Forester is also a Top IIHS Safety Pick, and actually scored better on the roof crush test than the Element did, so that's incorrect.

    Forester is also the class winner for the Polk Automotive Loyalty (RL Polk). Not only did in win in Compact SUVs, it beat all Midsize SUVs, all Full-size SUVs, and all luxury SUVs.

    Range Rover came close, but Forester owners are the most loyal SUV owners, period.

    Biggest moonroof? Not sure, but likely.

    Most space efficient - more total EPA interior space than an Outlander with an overall length shorter than a Chevy Cobalt coupe. Small outside, big inside.

    Most ground clearance in its class.

    Best angle of approach.

    Best angle of departure.

    Best breakover angle.

    Best visibility.

    Consumer Reports top rated small SUV.

    Car & Driver 5Best trucks.

    Motor Trend Car of the Year.

    Motorweek Driver's Choice Award.

    ...you get the point.

    Forester wins plenty of wins and best-in-class, I'm sure there are many more.
  • comem47comem47 Posts: 390
    Hey we finally get to see that chelentano and ateixeira are just warring siblings

    :P

    image
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Auto lease residuals are always — always — set as a percentage of MSRP — never on negotiated price. This is a point that is frequently misunderstood by leasing consumers. For example, a vehicle with a MSRP sticker price of $30,000 and a 50% residual percentage would have an estimated $15,000 residual value at lease-end — regardless of negotiated lease price

    So he got $19k after 30 months.

    What was the MSRP? Edmunds loaded 07 Outlander was $30,615.

    So the 30 month residuals was 62%.

    At that rate you could have kept a Forester 6 months longer for free.
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,661
    You had better hope this rumored Mitsubishi-Peugeot tie-up occurs. If not Mitsubishi is likely toast.

    http://www.smh.com.au/business/mitsubishis-fortunes-bolstered-by-peugeot-tieup-2- 0091203-k8s6.html

    A quote from the above link:

    ''With Mitsubishi's earnings taking a hit, Peugeot's stake would provide much needed financial support,'' Mr Kato said. ''Mitsubishi can't survive on its own.''

    Bob
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Navigation: Outlander (free traffic info and Diamond Line Guidance)

    I've never...EVER heard of one instance of people being happy with their traffic info on systems like these. Even Edmunds InsideLine long-term blog addresses this. Info is wrong, or at least very delayed, a lot more than it is right.

    Do you have this? I'm curious as to how well it works and how up-to-date it is. Its a great idea, with terrible execution in most cases.

    Audio System: Outlander (710 watt RF w 10" sub)

    I'm 22, and have never needed any more than the 200 Watt system in my Accord to hear the highs clearly and keep the bass from being muddy; you just have to set-it-up properly. It's fairly basic, but its great to me. Had a check-engine light read at Auto-Zone this summer and the guy working there asked me what speakers/sub I had in the car (I had left my radio turned on to a country station, nothing "thumpin'". Much to his surprise, they're completely stock. Not bad considering the car is a '96 model that came with a 50-Watt Tape-Deck standard. I can't imagine what I'd do with any more power through my stereo - I've never had my volume turned past 18 with anything playing, and then it was only to play something so I could hear it outside the car. It goes to 40.

    Transmission: Outlander (6-speed with paddles and neutral logic)?

    I like the paddle-shifters (although I long for a true manual in my current car); what is "neutral logic?" Never heard of it but sounds intriguing. :)
  • fushigifushigi Posts: 1,233
    Nav: I had a trial of traffic on my handheld Magellan and it was current enough and useful a couple of times when rerouting around an accident. Funny thing is I never paid for a subscription but the traffic data is still there. :)

    Audio: Everyone's desires are different. I listen to anything from Mozart to classic rock to jazz to talk radio to Japanese R&B techno. Add some country and heavy bands like Nickelback and Marilyn Manson and you've also covered my wife's taste. Some music is about clarity and pureness of sound; some is about making the windows rattle.

    Agreed that how well a stereo sounds has as much to do with how it's configured as how much power it has. But also, understand that an audio system's power isn't just for added volume. Here's some info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_power

    Neutral logic: When you come to a complete stop the trans shifts to neutral to reduce trans drag & improve economy. If you turn the wheel or take your foot off the brake the trans re-engages.

    I bought an Outlander GT on Saturday so if you have specific questions, head to the Outlander thread & I'll try to answer them.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    This is par for the course. Toyota owns 17% of Subaru, and PSA is supposed to purchase 30-50% of Mitsubishi. We all saw that coming.

    It's very tough to stay independent, even a very profitable Porsche failed and got reigned in by Piech's mafia at VW.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Congratulations. :shades:

    You're among the first, too.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Finally found the link:

    https://www.alg.com/ResidualValueAwards

    Subaru was the #1 mainstream brand.

    Forester was the #1 compact utility.

    Outback was the #1 mid-size utility.
  • fushigifushigi Posts: 1,233
    One of the first 3000, anyway. The last 6 digits of my VIN are 002xxx.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Cool. I wonder if they start at 0000, or maybe 1000?

    No matter, congrats again.
  • comem47comem47 Posts: 390
    Fushigi.

    Congrats on your GT purchase!!!

    RE: the RF sound system: I only bought a V6 4WD LS in 2007, but had to opt for the "Sun and Sound" package (and not because of the sun part). I rarely set the volume control past 20, but it's the clarity of the system I appreciate (VERY clean bass). There are definitely things Mitsu could do better (I do not have the music server with large display and my version of the radio has red LEDS that wash out in sunlight), but I partially forgive that for the sound quality .Maybe you don't have that problem if you have the server with GPS.

    We'll be listening for your drive reports after you've had a chance to break it in.
  • >> There's no torque vectoring on the rear axle, I think that's pretty clear. If it could Mitsubishi would mention it.

    replied in 4WD & AWD systems thread.
  • >> Forester is also a Top IIHS Safety Pick, and actually scored better on the roof crush test than the Element did, so that's incorrect.

    No, Volkswagen Tiguan had top roof crush rating.
    .

    >> Most space efficient - more total EPA interior space than an Outlander with an overall length shorter than a Chevy Cobalt coupe. Small outside, big inside.

    No. Forester XT has 132.9 cu.ft vs. Outlander XLS 139.4 cu.ft.
    Quote “...the Forester does not lead its class for total interior volume” - Examiner


    >> Best angle of approach.
    >> Best angle of departure.
    >> Best breakover angle.
    >> Most ground clearance in its class.

    No, at least Jeep has better specs of this kind. You did not even make an effort do to your homework. As usual: the “Borg Warner” method.

    >> Best visibility.
    .

    Says who? You don’t get top visibility ranking with no backup camera, no rain sensing vipers and no bi-directional Xenons.

    >> Consumer Reports top rated small SUV.

    No, the last 2 years it’s RAV4 : CR top picks

    >> Car & Driver 5Best trucks.
    >> Motor Trend Car of the Year.
    >> Motorweek Driver's Choice Award.

    Magazine “Awards” we don’t count, since every mag has own “award” paid by advertising dollars anyway. “Polk”? Reading web site: is just another “premier provider of marketing solutions”. All these guys just award their best donors.
This discussion has been closed.