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Mitsubishi Outlander vs. Subaru Forester

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Comments

  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    If you sold 1 last month and 10 this month you could also claim an increase of 900%. :shades
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    The PR machine was working overtime. That is a nice spin on things, I'll give them credit.

    Usually sales are compared to the same month a year prior, and then YTD vs. the year prior.

    sales were up 11.4 percent compared to December 2008

    That's a good sign, but per Automotive News:

    Overall, December sales of 1,030,096 light vehicles rose 15 percent from December 2008

    So minus the PR spin, the Outlander actually lost a little bit of market share compared to the old model a year ago.

    Having said that, if demand for the GT is hot as you mentioned earlier, it'll take time to adjust the production lines to output more of those. It could take a couple of months to adjust.

    It is an encouraging sign after a dismal November.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    If you get it on TV, it was on this weeks' episode. Link to text:

    http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/carkeys/02.shtml

    This part made me go "HUH?"

    Inside, dash and doors don synthetic leather trim
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Same on the Mitsubishi site:

    The Outlander GT Prototype is loaded with premium features like grained synthetic leather, double stitching and generous chrome accents that raise the bar on CUV luxury

    http://www.mitsubishicars.com/MMNA/jsp/company/concepts.do

    That sheds new lights on this post:

    http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f185114/849#MSG849

    Quote from it:

    Forester is not suppose to have leather dash. It has plastic dash appropriate to the price

    As it turns out, neither does the Outlander. :P
  • comem47comem47 Posts: 390
    Forester is not suppose to have leather dash. It has plastic dash appropriate to the price

    As it turns out, neither does the Outlander.


    Well it's obvious there were no New Years resolutions regarding minutiae

    Oh well...... :cry:
  • p0926p0926 Posts: 4,423
    Actually, I was fairly impressed that Mitzu had outfitted the Outlander with a leather dash. Especially since as chelentano claimed:

    $45K Mercedes GLK has plastic dash instrument panel, while the $29K Outlander comes with double-stitched leather instrument panel

    But even if it's not really leather, "grained synthetic leather" sounds so much nicer than calling it what it really is... plastic :P

    -Frank
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    ...and that was my point, he was really rubbing that in our faces, turns out he was wrong all along.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Here is a sales chart from Automotive News, spin-free:

    http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100105/RETAIL01/100109984/1- 400#

    Automaker 12/09 12/08 Pct. chng. 2009, 2008, Pct. chng.

    Mitsubishi 4,357 4,570 –5% 53,986 97,257 –44%
    Subaru 23,074 17,287 33% 216,652 187,699 15%
  • >> This part made me go HUH? That sheds new lights on this post:
    http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f185114/849#MSG849
    Quote from it: Forester is not suppose to have leather dash. It has plastic dash appropriate to the price. As it turns out, neither does the Outlander.

    .

    "This part made me go HUH?" :)

    1. I've never said the Outlander has genuine leather dash. But even if synthetic leather, it is still a double-stitch leather and not molded plastic. Mercedes sells M-Class, GLK class and others with synthetic leather seats and which is hard to tell and it feels luxurious. The Mercedes dash however is a molded plastic and feels cheaper.

    2. My post 849 of Dec 1 only suggests that Forester doesn't have a leather dash, which is true. I also suggested that it's not suppose to have leather dash at that price, which is also true.

    3. And actually the funniest thing is that you are the one who said first on this board that Outlander has leather dash. In message 769 on Nov 20 "Leather on the dash looks great".

    O-o-ps you did it again on Nov 29 post 829: "The leather dash is a nice upgrade, and it runs across the dash an into the tops of the door panels."

    So you've mentioned "leather" here first and at least twice before I did. Then what's a problem? I saw the GT interior only on pictures, but you have inspected it in person back in November reporting to us "The leather dash is a nice upgrade, and it runs across the dash an into the tops of the door panels".
    .

    >> he was really rubbing that in our faces, turns out he was wrong all along.

    "HUH"? Are you going to apologize or what???
  • p0926p0926 Posts: 4,423
    But even if synthetic leather, it is still a double-stitch leather and not molded plastic

    Nice try but it's still PLASTIC. It may look and feel better than a molded plastic dash but regardless of whether you call it plastic, vinyl or double-stitched synthetic leather , it's still made from petroleum distillates :P

    -Frank
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    There's an old expression about walk like a duck and talk like a duck. Plastic is still plastic. This is the reason a lot of people opt for the leatherette...er plastic on BMWs because it looks and almost feels like the real thing. Regardless of what one calls it, it's not the real thing.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I saw the GT around November 20, but there was lots of hype about it before it arrived. I read about the dash on another forum before then, here's a link:

    http://forums.motivemag.com/zerothread?id=4614545

    jwaters943 wrote "Leather trimmed dash".

    Now we know he should have written "Vinyl trimmed dash".

    Yes I repeated that here first and I'm happy to have been wrong. ;)

    And remember mine was covered in plastic, and had not been PDI'd yet. I even thought it was a pre-production model.

    synthetic leather, it is still a double-stitch leather and not molded plastic

    You should have written it this way:

    synthetic leather, it is still a double-stitch vinyl which is a plastic

    Vinyl is a type of plastic:

    http://www.whatisvinyl.com/
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    By the way, you never apologized for being wrong about the forged pistons and the different turbo engine block.

    I am sorry that the Outlander GT turns out to have its dash wrapped in a type of plastic.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    actually the funniest thing is that you are the one who said first on this board that Outlander has leather dash. In message 769 on Nov 20

    Wrong.

    Remember this discussions started in the Crossover thread, in fact the hosts moved posts here and asked us to continue the same discussion here.

    Well, a quick search reveals psychogun was actually the first to bring it up:

    http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f114238/7004#MSG7004

    stitched leather surfaces on the doors and the dash.

    So psychogun was first. Way back in September.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    From the same post, also by psychogun:

    If you want to tow 3500lbs with the Outlander, you will need to go with one of the 3.0l V6 trims,4WD, and also purchase the towing package

    Is that right? You need to add a package?
  • comem47comem47 Posts: 390
    Yes, like many other vehicles there is a reinforced frame for the tow bar that bolts in and wiring for the trailer plugs into a connector on the frame. I added the factory kit to my 2007 LS but you can also go after market. Why is this so shocking? (my old Dakota needed to add a tow package for the class III hitch too).

    Here is a pic of an after market unit, The factory unit is somewhat similar, but beefier

    image

    and here is a zoomed in pic of the factory unit and ball mount, but I don't recommend using the ball mount shown if you wish to lower the tailgate with the trailer connected (could just barely interfere as my trailer did, so I used an inverted U-Haul unit that also extends.(flip the shown unit over to raise the ball)

    image

    <img src="http://www.etrailer.com/merchant2/graphics/00000001/pics/4/5/45122.jpg
  • comem47comem47 Posts: 390
    FYI: here is someone selling the factory hitch on EBAY

    link">http://tinyurl.com/oem-hitch
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    The tow package on a Sienna includes oil coolers. You're not supposed to tow at all until that's added (it was standard on my 2007 model, but has since been a victim of cost-cutting).

    I was just asking, so thanks for clarifying.
  • comem47comem47 Posts: 390
    yes, I see Subaru sells the forester extra too:

    ">link titlehttp://www.subarupartsmall.com/product_info.php?cPath=24_88&products_id=3051

    As for oil coolers, etc, that depends on the vehicle. My Dakota also had a beefier radiator and power steering cooler as part of the tow package (but that was rated 6800 lbs). I believe that the extra cooling is part of the 4WD on Outlander (required for towing 3500 lbs)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    For sure, you need the hitch and probably a wiring harness (usually included at the higher OEM prices). Foresters are pre-wired, so you just plug-n-play, and bolt on the hitch.

    I compared Sienna vs. Ody and Honda's dirty little secret was that you needed to add not one but two oil coolers for towing, the 2nd for the power steering pump. This is on top of the hitch and harness, of course.

    If you bought an Ody off the lot that didn't have it, you couldn't just bolt on a hitch. That's a lot of labor, too, beyond the parts needed, to install those two oil coolers.

    Sienna had that standard - back in 2007.

    For 2008 they made it a stand-alone option. To me that's cost-cutting, and hidden cost cutting at that. They added more visible content like Bluetooth that same year (MY2008), but I'll take a beefed up powertrain over BT anyday.
  • watkinstwatkinst Posts: 122
    The simple answer

    One is a copy cat offered at a lower price - the other one is the real thing with an AWD system unmatched regarding cost of ownership - maint- simplicity and proven to be quite good.

    Not to mention one of them has always from day one been at the top of the crash safety list the other one not so much.

    One last thing Mitsubishi has been busted a few times for faulty parts - hiding the fact of the faulty parts - not issuing recalls when they should be done and to top it off it doesn't have a reliability rating anywhere close to the Subaru.

    If price is not really a big issue why in the hell would anyone even look at a Mitsubishi?
  • comem47comem47 Posts: 390
    If price is not really a big issue why in the hell would anyone even look at a Mitsubishi?

    More than a few reasons.

    First off for me the Forester was too small when I was looking in 2007. The light finally went on for them with the new Forester, but for years they were cars that got OK mileage, but consider the size.

    If we're talking today you can consider that Mitsu is giving a great bumper to bumper and powertrain warranty to ease ones fears. Maybe Subaru is slightly safer (roof) , but not by much when you look at the whole field,

    Third: not everyone fits in the same cookie cutter. If one is blindly Subaru loyal that's fine, but the market is changing all the time. I chose what fit my needs at that point in time and for thousands less than the Subaru at that time. I'll run this vehicle into the ground and evaluate the whole field as it exists in maybe 2017 (if the comet doesn't get here first like the Mayans say) Who knows,maybe it will be a Subaru when the next time comes, but that vehicle isn't built yet and hopefully they will keep up the evolution in line with the competition and not rest on their laurels , i.e. like the size thing of the past. ;)
  • p0926p0926 Posts: 4,423
    for me the Forester was too small when I was looking in 2007

    Actually, I kinda wish they'd kept the Forester the same size.

    Automakers have been slowly but surely growing their models for years to meet the constant demand for more size ("super-size me"). Look at the Accord and Camry, remember back when they were small compact sedans? Now they've more than been replaced by what use to be sub-compacts (Civic & Corolla) and there's a whole new generation of sub-compacts to fill the void (Fit & Venza). Same goes for SUVs. The old Ford Explorer was small compared to today's model. So Ford came out with the Escape. In a few years, when the Escape grows too big, Ford will no doubt come out with a new compact SUV.

    -Frank
  • watkinstwatkinst Posts: 122
    Ford already has one its selling like hotcakes over in the UK and is based on the new Fiesta platform. It's called the Kuga in the UK google it. Nice little SUV - by far not a CRV or a RAV4.

    Anyone that buys a Ford Escape right now should be enrolled in a HS economics class again. It's ancient tech - and being phased out which it should have been phased out 4 years ago. Ford should be ashamed of selling it given it doesn't compete with any rival at any level.

    The American companies have failed miserably in managing their "Brand Image" it doesn't matter how good of a product you have if your Brand image is bad you have some major issues! It's easier to design a good vehicle than it is to change everyone's perception of your brand.

    As such when you have a very old product or a very poor product continuing to sell it simply damages your brand image.

    Given the cost of vehicles today and the fast and easy information via the internet you basically commit brand suicide if you do not own up to faulty products or continue to sell products that simply do not compete with competitors.

    The New Buick's might actually be great cars but no way in hell I will ever own something with a Buick badge on it. Again brand image and in GM's case really bad brand image management.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Both of these models up-sized for the latest generation.

    Remember the previous Outlander?

    image

    Having said that, the Forester is still under 180", which is shorter than a Chevy Cobalt. They've also kept weight under control, which helps every aspect of performance, and economy too.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    The domestics have come a long way, especially recently.

    The Equinox went from having an ancient Chinese-built pushrod V6 to a pair of direct injection engines with both good power and fuel efficiency. It's attractive inside and out. Now if only they can put the rest of the car on a diet.

    MyFord Touch is the leader in Infotainment. Lincoln just won awards from JD Powers for the best Navi systems, and they didn't rest on their laurels - the new system go well beyond what Sync could do. They're showing them off at CES now, and they sure look cool.

    Competition improves the breed, and that's a good thing.
  • fushigifushigi Posts: 1,235
    I'll take the extra length. I had to fly with two others the other day and my wife drove the Outlander to the airport with me and my companions as passengers. Their luggage + mine (including suitcases, 3 carry ons, etc.) all fit in the cargo area below the height of the second row seats without stacking.

    The Outlander fits in my garage even with the hatch open & garage door closed so for me it's not too long at all. My garage is a 2-car garage. Not 2.5, not longer or wider than needed (I actually wish it was wider to allow room for garden equipment). Just a basic box attached to the house.

    (I never warmed to that nose on the Outlander or any other Mitsu that sported a similar grill center.)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    A lot of people don't like the new nose, but I get it - I think of the EVO right away, so to me it's OK.

    As for size, I have the van when I want acres of space, so we wanted something compact that could still carry a family of 4, but was easy to maneuver, park, and good with gas.

    An around town alternative to the big van, basically.

    Edit: I'm not saying the Outlander is too big per se, just a bit on the heavy side. It's actually not big enough to be my primary trip vehicle, because we'll often take our nanny, and it's rare to find a comfortable 5th seat (sit on the "hump" and you'll see it's hard and your head rubs the ceiling if you're tall).

    Different strokes for different folks...
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Per Automotive News/KBB:

    In 2009, the depreciation rate for all used vehicles from the model years 2005 through 2008 was 8.5 percent, Kelley says. But used Subarus for those years actually increased in value 1.3 percent, Kelley says. Audi vehicles lost only 1.9 percent of their value, while the value of Mercedes vehicles fell 3.3 percent.

    Read more: http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100111/RETAIL04/100109902/1- - 132#ixzz0cKJ6QiE8

    Those were the top 3, so Subaru was the only brand to actually gain value.

    :shades:
This discussion has been closed.