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Ford Fiesta

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  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032
    edited April 2010
    At the LA Autoshow, after sitting in the Fiesta sedan, I even found sitting in the '10 Focus' ugly Americanized interior a huge relief in both room & driving position as well as visibility (especially rearward). Of course, the '07 Focus sedan, which I own one, has the most comfortable interior w/ best visibility & is about as roomy as the '10 Focus.

    The '83 Camry LE, which my parents used to owned one, has more hp than the '83 GTI, plus way more low-end torque. It hops off the line like a V8, & climbing the steep hills of Palos Verdes California pretty quickly & quietly at 3000rpm w/ no sweat. & this high-mpg compact-but-roomy luxury sedan was very fancy -- power everything (window/lock/cruise), great-sounding stereo w/ equalizer & subwoofer, additional A/C duct on top of the dash that blows air directly to the rear passengers w/o chilling the front passengers, & an efficient overdrive auto tranny w/ lock-up torque converter. The car even corners pretty quickly w/ Michelin MXL S-rated 185/70-13 tires. Unfortunately, its steering didn't have much feel, & it has way worse ride comfort, especially for the rear passengers, than even the '83 Tercel! Too bad, the roomy rear seating got one of the most comfortable high chairs in the world, even for 3 people sitting across!

    That's why, eventually, I collected the notchback version of the '83 GTI -- an '84 Geman-made Jetta coupe -- instead of the original Camry.
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,733
    edited April 2010
    Now, you even said that you agree that it doesn't function as well on ice. I would presume that you agree that it does not function as well on snow. Right?

    It's a given that it's 100% your own stupid fault for driving a car on ice without chains and/or proper care. I've driven RWD cars on snow for years, and with chains and proper speeds, they are exactly as safe as FWD cars. Or exactly as unsafe if you're an idiot. FWD on snow won't save you magically, either. Almost every situation that would cause you to lose control with a RWD car would also cause serious problems for a FWD car - and it's the driver's fault every time for not knowing what to do or just simply getting in over their head.

    Unfortunately, most drivers these days are idiots who treat a vehicle as an appliance more than a serious machine and skill to master. They forget that it's not only a way to get around town but potentially a 3500lb disaster waiting to happen if they don't treat it with proper respect.

    RWD isn't an issue in any case today with stability control as an option on most new cars these days. It will be mandatory in a couple of years, so essentially RWD will be a non-issue in any case at that point in time. It's certainly not a reason to make a small hatchback FWD vs RWD. Just look at BMW and Mercedes. They love to make RWD cars and I think there's TAD of snow in Germany in the winter. I don't hear about them going all over the place and crashing every tie there's a little snow on the roads.
  • iamziamz Posts: 542
    edited April 2010
    It's simple physics. There is a huge advantage in having the powered wheels the same as the wheels you steer with. VSC can help on a RWD car but it can't entirely make up for the superior advantage of being able to apply power to the wheels you steer with. VSC, by it's nature, only comes on when the car is going out of control. I'd rather not go out of control in the first place and that is what FWD helps with.

    And to suggest that people need to put on chains is silly. Chains aren't even legal in most states and that includes mine.
  • phill1phill1 Posts: 315
    Is someone (dating) themselves? Hell I`m an old fart in my mid-sixties and I haven`t seen or heard chains on a vehicle here in the USA for Decades! Sure the long haul semi-tractor rigs have them hanging off their cabs in the winter months probably due to the fact that they may haul to Alaska or to the Dakota`s during winter months, but even Police cars don`t use (chains) any longer unless perhaps you live within 50 miles of the Canadian Border. Thanks, you put a smile on my face!
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,733
    And that's why people get into crashes I guess. "I have a SUV" and then they end up in the ditch because they are using street tires on snow like morons. The last time I went to the mountains the police required 4WD and AT or better tires or chains. No exceptions. Thankfully I have 4WD and MT tires and about a 4-6 inch lift over the 2WD version, so I laughed at the dozens of people putting on chains. :P

    The original post, though, was about the Fiesta and FWD vs RWD. And, for the car to be agile and fast you really need to get the power and the steering on different axles. There are advantages to having the power and steering on the same axle but that only applies in a few instances. The rest of the time, it deadens steering response and feel, causes torque steer, and generally makes for a pathetic driving experience.

    I got a brand new Cobalt/etc when my truck was in the shop about a year ago(their fault - they had to take 24 hours to fix their mistake). Just your typical 2500lb small jellybean sedan. Maybe 1000 miles on it. The steering was physically harder to steer and slower to respond than the steering on my truck. My truck is 20+ years old, and has mud terrain tires on it. The difference between FWD and RWD when it comes to driving dynamics and responsiveness is huge.

    My only hope if that the next small car like this from Toyota or Mazda is RWD.
  • phill1phill1 Posts: 315
    Well, although I lived until 1998 in Massachusetts and saw a fair amount of snow every winter, I`ve lived the past 12 years here in the Florida Keys (Key West) where the temperature has NEVER reached freezing and has never seen a snow flake. I`ve always advocated that (ice) only belongs in a cocktail class, so "chains" are something for B & D and Leather folks. I`d rather deal with the" Roach "that ate Miami then dealing with snow/sleet/freezing rain and Jack Frost! I still hug my Palm Trees every day!
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116
    edited April 2010
    Is someone (dating) themselves? Hell I`m an old fart in my mid-sixties and I haven`t seen or heard chains on a vehicle here in the USA for Decades

    That's because old farts dont go anywhere :P . I-80 over to Lake Tahoe, hwy 395 to Mammoth, and just about any California road going to a ski area all require chains in winter. So within 3 hours of ocean, you may need chains.

    The worst trip I had was summer tires on a fwd Nissan Sentra. That was far worse than reasonably new all seasons on a 3-series of the same era. Both cars had chains. Tires and weight distribution seem to be important here as well.

    FWIW, Mrs. LilEngineerBoy has an AWD wagon with snow tires in winter in Michigan, but I would have no issues with a RWD sport sedan personally. If I was that afraid to drive somewhere, I shouldn't be out on the road anyway.
  • phill1phill1 Posts: 315
    If you call that kind of "driving" having fun....I`ll pass. I use to drive through Vermont mid-winter to Montreal all the time and still never required (chains). If the conditions are that bad....unless your EMT or Funeral Director doing a "removal" and have no choice in the matter, just wait till conditions improve. So glad to be living now in the Tropics. Just add ice to the beer cooler and I`m good.
  • iamziamz Posts: 542
    Can you find out why the "Compare to Popular Models" feature does not allow me to put an automatic transmission on the Fiesta? Or can you at least forward this to someone at Edmunds that can check into this?

    Thanks! ;)
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 5,854
    A good question! I've passed it along. Hope to have an answer for you soon :shades:

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  • iamziamz Posts: 542
    Thank you.
  • phill1phill1 Posts: 315
    The new 2011 Ford Fiesta has not even gone into production yet in Mexico and the Ford web site has altered the interior color choices. Now in the SE Hatchback, NO Option available. If you select Candy Red Metallic which is a $180. extra premium paint, you cannot select the blk/charcoal cloth interior. You get the light stone/grey cloth interior. Ok with me as thats the color option (I) ordered, but I`m sure some will be disappointed to find the early order for their vehicle was already changed!
  • iamziamz Posts: 542
    edited April 2010
    We were discussing the interior options on the Build site on another forum. We think it might be that they are working on the Build site because the leather options were gone also the last time I looked.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,666
    More likely it's just a website error. Are the official order guides out? Those are usually definitive.
  • phill1phill1 Posts: 315
    Of course the official order guides have been at the Ford Dealerships since late Feb. I ordered mine Mar.5 but like they always say and warn you, manufacturer reserves the right to make changes, add, delete, etc at anytime. It could be that they want to differentiate the SE cloth interior with the light stone-grey interior with the SEL cloth interior being charcoal-black? But, time will tell. Production is supposed to start Apr. 26.
  • Chains are REQUIRED on some highways in California in the winter, during bad storms. I don't know where you folks live that chains are illegal, but speak for yourselves.
  • iamziamz Posts: 542
    Speak for myself? I thought I was. What part of what I wrote says that chains are illegal in California? :confuse:

    "...... Chains aren't even legal in most states and that includes mine. "

    That statement is as true now as when I wrote it. The problem lies in your reading comprehension skills. ;)
  • iamziamz Posts: 542
    At the dealer I ordered from, the order guide I looked at listed and showed pictures of the three different fabric samples. I'm sure it's just a glitch.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,666
    I think the problem was you said "most states" when that may not be true.
  • iamziamz Posts: 542
    Yep, you're right. I Just did some checking and it looks like I am wrong on chain laws. Entirely wrong! Most states do allow them in certain snow and ice conditions. Even my state. I new studded tires were illegal here and thought chains were also illegal.

    My bad. I apologize. :blush:
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