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Dealers Selling the GT-R at MSRP?

996twint996twint Posts: 10
edited April 5 in Nissan
I'm looking to place an order for a GT-R. I've found dealers charging from $10k over to $30k over. Any leads on MSRP dealers?
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Comments

  • croco83croco83 Posts: 1
    The only advice I'd have is to call around and compare asking prices. I know for a fact that if I get a price that's marked up by over $10K, I'm walking out. If my numbers are correct, then the price for a GT-R with taxes, title and plates should be somewhere between $75-80K, and you shouldn't have to pay any more than that.

    Good luck on getting that GT-R, man. I know I'm in line for one as soon as my fiancee and I get her deceased father's estate sorted out...so hopefully I'll be shopping around for one soon.
  • vperlvperl Posts: 1
    I have called and visited several Nissan dealers, all around the area, even out of stae....

    If you can find a NEW GT-R for under 90K good luck.
    ebay has about 8 or so for sale.... many have not sold becasue the reserve of 98K was not met. goto ebay.com type in the search window 2009 Nissan GT-R, if you see a better deal...post it.
  • greanpea68greanpea68 Posts: 1,996
    If you haven't put a deposit down on any GTR good luck finding one under $20k over MSRP.

    I work at Nissan store and we have 4 people waiting for delivery all with $5000 in house. They don't take delivery they loose their deposit. All prospects informed that it will be $20k over MSRP...

    Once again there is only 1500 being sold in USA and there are 1100 dealerships in USA. The mark up is about $6000.

    For a dealer to get certified they are investing any where from $30k to $70k depending on what they have at their location.

    Good luck if your going to get one.

    This car is incredible!

    GP
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    They don't take delivery they loose their deposit.

    And just what dealer do you work for? They may have to "invest" another $50k in legal fees and settlements once they run into customers that have any knowledge of their legal rights.

    Unless you have a demo GTR in stock available for test drives AND unless the customer is ordering the car to specifications that will cause the dealership to lose money if he/she cancels the order, then you don't have a prayer of collecting a deposit in front of a judge. The law of the land in virtually all 50 states - certainly Massachusetts - is that for a two party contract to be valid, the buyer has to have "reasonable knowledge of and valid expectations regarding" the product they are buying. Without the ability to test drive a demo, you lose on that account alone. Plus, if you can't prove damages - i.e. reduced sales price resulting from cancellation - you couldn't collect even if you had a demo.

    At Ferrari of Washington, they are more than happy to refund a customers deposit that has been sitting in escrow for 2+ years if they change their mind. At FOW, they sell new cars at MSRP, not a penny more. But in the case of a cancelled contract for a car that has gone into production, it goes to the open market and, bingo, they make a healthy premium. Same with my Porsche dealer on the GT2.

    Apparantly Nissan and your dealership want to play in the big leagues with the GTR, but are employing sales tactics unbefitting for a Sentra. Another reason why the GTR is likely to be a short lived flash in the pants. McDonalds may be good at cheap burgers, but they aren't exactly the connoiseur's choice for prime rib. And if Nissan thinks that an "investment" of $35-$70k can turn the monkey wrenchs who bang away at the drum brakes on that Sentra into the same level of mechanic that works for the typical Ferrari or Porsche dealer, good friggin luck. Maybe I can buy new golf clubs and take on Tiger.
  • the GTR is likely to be a short lived flash in the pants. .

    You seem to understand buyers' rights pretty well, and everything you said up to that last rediculous rant made sense.

    The GT-R has been in production for 40 years. The AWD versions for 20 years. Your comment has already been disproven. There's nothing more to it.

    And Nissan already went through this process with the R33/R34 in Europe.

    The company 'Nissan' also includes Infiniti, which like it or not is a BMW competitor. 'Nissan' doesn't just work on Sentras any more than Porsche only works on Jettas.

    Maybe I can buy new golf clubs and take on Tiger.

    Seems that if Tiger is the undisputed number one in the world of golf, this analogy doesn't really work well for Porsche.

    Oh sure, they are profitable. And they have a loyal following. But Tiger consistently comes in with the lowest number on his score card. Thats where Porsche falls short.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Perhaps I should have qualified it as "the GTR is likely to be a short lived flash in the pants in the U.S."

    I honestly don't know how well, or not, the GT-R "Skyline" competes with Porsche, Ferrari and others for sales in Eurpope and Asia. Someone mentioned in another forum that it competes more with the EVO and WRX in brand marketing as it does with a 911 or 430, but I have no idea if that is accurate. What are the actual sales volumes - i.e. is it a halo car or a mainstream car?

    My point is that in the U.S., I just don't see the GT-R having a long lifespan. Nissan has too many other fish to fry trying to stay competitive with Toyota and Honda to put anywhere near the effort of a Porsche, Ferrari or even BMW in keeping their cars on the forefront of performance engineering. Hell, the 1995 Maxima that I own and am a big fan of now only comes with a CVT transmission and Nissan dares to market it as a "4-door sports car". Nissan isn't a car company that exudes an image of performance engineering. Whether the GT-R lasts as long as the honda S2000, Acura NSX, or Toyota Supra TT, who knows. But in all of those cases, the big splash introduction was followed by ..... almost nothing (in evolution).

    The other factor, unfortunately, is the "Nissan" image devolution. The Wall Street Journal had an interesting article a few months ago analyzing the customer demographic of Nissan. More than any other major car company, Nissan has "downscaled" into econoboxes. The average sales price has actually declined. The Maxima sells less than 20% of the volume it did 15 years ago and the bulk of Nissan sales are at the low end of the market. While Hyundai is going upscale with a V8 RWD vehicle, Nissan is going in the other direction. The owner of the Nissan dealership I bought my Maxima from also owns a BMW dealership. He acknowledged that while there was some limited cross shopping (Maxima vs. 3 series) 10+ years ago, there is NONE now. At least when you handed Acura $80k+ for an NSX, you had the potential of seeing familiar faces at the dealership. A $90k customer at a Nissan dealership will have absolutely nothing in common with the other folks sitting in the service lounge.

    None of this takes away from the fact that the GTR is an impressive engieering feat. About 800 lbs overweight for my preferences, but impressive nonetheless. But from a business perspective, I wouldn't bet on it still being at your local Nissan showroom in 2015.
  • The company 'Nissan' also includes Infiniti, which like it or not is a BMW competitor. 'Nissan' doesn't just work on Sentras any more than Porsche only works on Jettas.

    I think you are making habitat's point, more than your own. If the GT-R were labeled as an Infiniti and sold through Infiniti dealerships, it might help with respect to brand image and the purchase/service experience.

    And your VW comparison also makes habitat's point. Look at the Volkswagen Phaeton V12 - a car that could easily compete with the 750i or S550 in performance, luxury, etc, but sat on dealers lots until the paint peeled off trying to get someone to pay $75k+ for a VW. The Audi R8 does spectacular by comparison.

    Nissan may have more luck with the GT-R than VW did with the Phaeton, but after going through the expense and effort of establishing a "premium" division with Infiniti, it seems counterproductive to try to entice serious sports car enthusiasts into a Nissan dealership. I stopped in (by "private invitation") to have a look at the GTR a couple of weeks ago. When I pulled up in my 2 month old 911 GT2, the showroom practically emptied out to take a look at it. And about half of the gawkers didn't speak English. I finally got to the general manager, who was all of about 35, but I had to go through a few sales people who looked like they were 2 weeks out of a cheap used car lot. The entire atmosphere made a flea market seem upscale. And this is the dealership in my area (out of 8-10) that Nissan designated as their GTR showplace. Embarassing.

    As an M5 owner, I'd have a hard time agreeing with you that Infiniti competes with BMW on anything other than the entry level G35 level. But one thing is certain, as a brand and from a sales/service perspective, Nissan has absolutely nothing in common with Porsche or Ferrari. Granted, Nissan's underachieving objective of 1,500 GT-R's is a tiny fraction of the number of $75k-$200k+ 911's sold in the US year in and year out, but I still think Nissan needs to re-evaluate their strategy. To take habitat's analogy a bit further, you wouldn't devote a few years to developing the best recipe for prime rib and then try to serve them through McDonalds.
  • It is and always was a halo car. Very limited production. It'll sell 100% of the ones built. Demand is such that they are still going for a $10K premium. That means there are 2+ buyers for every car coming to the US.

    While Hyundai is going upscale with a V8 RWD vehicle, Nissan is going in the other direction.

    Incorrect. They are going in both directions. They are already saturated in the V8 market with the M45. They offer the exact same lineup as Hyundai. Where exactly are you expecting them to expand? By your logic, Porsche is going downscale by acquiring more of VW, and VW offering the Golf.

    NiMoCo has a wide spread from Sentra to GT-R. Same as from Golf to 911. From Fit to NSX. From Cobalt to Z06. From FIAT to Ferrari.

    The owner of the Nissan dealership I bought my Maxima from also owns a BMW dealership. He acknowledged that while there was some limited cross shopping (Maxima vs. 3 series) 10+ years ago, there is NONE now.

    Because of what I already mentioned, this is just a nonsense comment. The 3-series competitor is the G37. They have NOT exited that market, they just changed the naming scheme on their cars.

    A $90k customer at a Nissan dealership will have absolutely nothing in common with the other folks sitting in the service lounge.

    Uhhh... yeah they will. Doctors, lawyers, bankers, and managers shouldn't feel too uncomfortable around their customers outside of a sterile environment. If they do, they live in a shallow, pretentious, egomaniacal world.

    GM sells a Corvette for the same price. And they'll sell 10x as many as Nissan will make.

    By 2015 they'll likely have released an Infiniti version. And then the R36. And it'll probably be the fastest production coupe in the world for a few months. And those that bought the R35 will want to upgrade to the R36. It'll have the same 'splash' as did the R32/R33/R34/R35.

    Because unlike the NSX, Supra, S2000, each version of a GT-R has been a radical technological update to the one preceding it. No GT-R has been a boring continuation of the one preceding it.

    Sorry, but it's going to be hard to ignore this car for many, many years to come.
  • Granted, Nissan's underachieving objective of 1,500 GT-R's is a tiny fraction of the number of $75k-$200k+ 911's sold in the US year in and year out, but I still think Nissan needs to re-evaluate their strategy.

    What? Nissan doesn't have the capacity to build more than that yet. The demand exists, and they just are holding back supply.

    Why do you all assume that just because this car beats more expensive cars in terms of performance that it needs to compete with Porsche and Ferrari from a brand perspective, or even in sales?

    At this price point, its more in line with the Corvette Z06, a car that will sell 10x more than Nissan plans to build GT-Rs.

    That shows there are plenty of $70K-90K buyers who don't mind going through a Chevy dealership.

    That was a false assessment. Every single one will sell at 1500/year for 5 years, followed by an update.

    When did I say Infiniti has the entire BMW lineup covered? BMW doesn't have the whole Audi lineup covered. They still compete. Though Infiniti is rumored to be getting an M3 competitor based on the GT-R.

    They probably won't up production numbers that much, but that says nothing about its longevity. You will have to deal with the limited-production Nissan for years to come.
  • To take habitat's analogy a bit further, you wouldn't devote a few years to developing the best recipe for prime rib and then try to serve them through McDonalds.

    the rediculous metaphors need to stop. I don't know why anyone thinks these work for any situation involving cars.

    I'm Tiger Woods and I eat GT-Rs and drive a Prime Rib from McDonalds

    What does this accomplish? Tiger Woods doesn't sell at 1500 units/year, and Prime Rib doesn't go from 0-60.

    Run this same argument through with the Corvette ZR1. They'll sell every single one of these limited-run McRib sandwiches with extra 'special' sauce. Yeah, thats right. Its the best Prime Rib in the world right now. Sold at the Taco Bell of automakers, Chevrolet for a buck-ten.

    You dragged performance into the equation. GM has not only been chasing, but beating Porsche and Ferrari on and off for years now in terms of performance. Performance can be had for cheap, in the generic dealerships, year after year.

    They don't need to change the strategy. Any more than Corvette needs to be a Cadillac. GM's financial situation regardless, GM will always have a market with Corvette fans. If Chevrolet discontinued the 'Vette, they would have about as many loyalists as Porsche would if they discontinued the 911. i.e. none.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    I thought I was typing pretty slow, but let me be clear. Nissan as a brand HAS gone downscale. Period. The fact that you can go across town to an Infiniti dealership doesn't have anything to do with NISSAN's brand image. Don't blame me for recognizing that distinction, Nissan decided to create a separate luxury division so that they could try and market a distinction. You may think that Nissan and Infiniti are interchangable as brands, but that's not what Nissan is spending tens of millions of year in advertising - and running separate factories and production lines - trying to prove.

    And by my logic, yes, Porsche would be going downscale if it decided to acquire and absorb VW into it's line-up and start selling VW's at Porsche dealerships. But whether it's corporate parent owns 20% or 40% of VW's stock has nothing to do with with Porsche's brand image or, more importantly, management priorities.

    You have said it yourself - the GTR is a limited production halo car. If every one sells for $90k, gross sales will equate to less than what the S2000 brought in annually for 8 years. But a $33k halo car in a dealership that sells $30k Accord EX's makes some sense. What in the hell is the GT-R "halo" benefit going to be to getting folks into the Nissan dealership when the next most expensive car in their line-up is an obese 350Z that is selling for under invoice at less than 1/3 the cost of the GT-R? Are the Nissan salespeople going to send a prospective customer accross town to test drive an Infiniti M50? I don't think so.

    I suspect that when Nissan figures out that this halo effort isn't really adding to the bottom line, some MBA exec will turn down the funding request needed to keep it current with competition. And eventually it will die.
  • I thought I was typing pretty slow

    I'm sure you were. But thats not surprising.

    I love when people use that line to try to make someone else sound dimwitted on a post-based forum where everything shows up at once. I feel it has the opposite affect.

    The GT-R does not exude luxury. I think we can all agree to that. Sitting around in an Infiniti dealership won't help sell G's and M's. Its function over form. Doesnt fit in.

    Especially when the GT-R crowd is closer to the Corvette crowd in terms of what 'class' of dealership they'll frequent. And they are also a larger percentage of the urban-youth gamer and AWD rally enthusiast.

    You guys said it, GT-R would sell STIs and EVOs like crazy. If a dealer owned all 3, he'd make a killing, IMO.

    Name the next most expensive car in the Chevy lineup. You are the one not getting this. You say they moved downscale as 'fact.' When really that sounds like the least like 'factual data' I've ever heard.

    That would imply they were ever 'upscale'. And your Maxima regardless, I don't really think that was ever the case. We had a Datsun pickup. How non-luxury can you get? It makes the Hilux look like an Escalade SUT.

    I've always viewed them as utilitarian. Its good that they separated their luxury brand. Infiniti's don't need to be sold next to Frontiers and Pathfinders, which have been in production for 20 years in the US.

    More or less the same market segment they inhabit today. Pickup trucks, minivans, sedans, hatchbacks, coupes.

    In Japan, the GT-R has always been the halo car sold alongside the Z-car. And the Z-car was the best selling sports car in history.

    Nissan is taking great strides to lighten the 370Z, give it more power and benchmark it against the 911.

    The GT-R is there to prove that a Nissan can beat a 911 again. The Z-car was never supposed to be pure luxury. Its a volume selling sport/GT car. The GT-R is a means to an end. And if the 370Z can deliver performance like the GT-R can (no reason why it can't), it'll sell like the old-school Z's.
  • And let me be clear. I don't think the Maxima is, was, or ever will be a 4DSC.

    They put a manual transmission on a V6 FWD sedan. Then they took it away. The transition to and from a 'sports car' never took place, IMO.

    And I don't understand why you sidestepped the issue of Infiniti getting its own version. Yup, hopefully it won't be long before they actually create a GT-R that looks proper in an Infiniti dealership. That way Spirit can go for a test drive without having to learn a foreign language :P

    If the GT-R doesn't work with Infiniti, come up with something that does.

    I'm pretty sure they didn't have Dodge Vipers trying to sell the E-class.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Especially when the GT-R crowd is closer to the Corvette crowd in terms of what 'class' of dealership they'll frequent. And they are also a larger percentage of the urban-youth gamer and AWD rally enthusiast.

    Hey, we agree!!

    Which is also why Nissan can "benchmark" the GTR or 370Z against a 911 or 430 and pat themselves on the back for a meaningless achievement when it comes to actually converting those prospective buyers into Datsun drivers.

    And I can relate to both sides of this market equation. I still have a fond spot in my heart for my old 1978 Datsun B210GX. 0-60 in about a half hour, but at the beach, with the hatch up and a Fosgate amp, Nakamichi tape deck and JBL Studio speakers pumping out the music over an impromtu campfire, it was more fun than 0-60 in 4.4 seconds with the top down in my 911S.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    And I don't understand why you sidestepped the issue of Infiniti getting its own version. Yup, hopefully it won't be long before they actually create a GT-R that looks proper in an Infiniti dealership.

    That we still don't agree on. If Nissan can't make more than 1,500 GT-R's due to production constraints, it hardly makes sense to come up with another version and further dilute any profit potential. Honda had the S2000 and Acura got the NSX. Not a hard concept to follow, IMO.

    However, I find it absurd that 1,500 is a "real" constraint for Nissan. BMW makes considerably more "M" cars annually, and all are hand built engines. I think Nissan is scared to death that if they built 5,000, about 3,500 would go unsold. At least at anything over about $60k. After all, they missed their original sales target on the 350Z by over 50% after only 1 year. The pent up demand got satisfied very quickly and below invoice deals became common.
  • Well I don't think they ever stood a snowball's chance of converting all the Porsche and Ferrari fans out there. No use trying. Some people will always love Ferrari. End of story.

    And where are you getting that the 350Z had bad sales? This was written after it was only reintroduced for less than 3 years.

    autochannel

    The fifth generation Z(R), the 2003 - 2006 Nissan 350Z, has already chalked up nearly 150,000 sales. Two-thirds of those sales have been in the U.S., where the 350Z has consistently ranked as the first or second best selling sports car in the nation and enjoys a nearly 20 percent share of the sports car market.

    They never produced more than 10,000 GT-Rs worldwide per year. And thats about what they are doing now. BMW only produces ~ 15,000 M-vehicles per year worldwide. And Chevy sells ~ 6,000 Z06s per year.

    I think Nissan is scared to death that if they built 5,000 about 3,500 would go unsold.

    Uhh... they already are producing more than that out of one factory. If you mean for the US, that would mean producing as many or more vehicles worldwide than all of ///M GmbH combined. And only for a single model. I think that would be absurd.

    I don't see any threat of dilution of demand when the V-spec is confirmed, and the Infiniti version is planned. Those will be in much smaller numbers. Adding those other 2 versions might take it to a maximum of 2000 units/year for the US. Or about the same globally as ///M GmbH. This is not a small production effort.

    And I'd be surprised if they did make an Infiniti version that looked anything like the GT-R. Platform yes, body and interior, no.
  • If the statistics are correct, Porsche sales are down 45% for August vs. 2007 in the US.

    Not that its relevant in any way. Just pointing out that sales statistics don't always tell the whole picture.
  • greanpea68greanpea68 Posts: 1,996
    A $90k customer at a Nissan dealership will have absolutely nothing in common with the other folks sitting in the service lounge.

    Uhhh... yeah they will. Doctors, lawyers, bankers, and managers shouldn't feel too uncomfortable around their customers outside of a sterile environment. If they do, they live in a shallow, pretentious, egomaniacal world


    That was my thought exactly. I was going to state that the demographics financialy speaking for the buyers of Nissan are not living in Section 8 homes :surprise: ...

    As stated above they are also Doctors, Lawyers, Police officers, Union workers, Small business owners, VP of big corporate companies....

    But than I thought well maybe Habitat makes $500,000 + per year.... and if he can't sit next to someone who makes $40,000/year I wonder who really has the problem?

    GP
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    A $90k customer at a Nissan dealership will have absolutely nothing in common with the other folks sitting in the service lounge.

    You are confusing the messanger with the message. I was essentially repeating what was stated in the Wall Street Journal article which singled out Nissan as having changed its focus and product mix to compete more on the lower end of the price range. The WSJ article pointed out that Maxima sales are a fraction of what they were 10 years ago and in place, Nissan sales of under $10-$13k vehicles has increased substantially. This "SHIFT" was much more pronounced in Nissan than Honda or Toyota.

    Don't criticize me - I was every bit as content getting my S2000 serviced at a Honda dealership as I am my 911 at a Porsche dealership. Rather, perhaps you should ask NISSAN whay they felt compelled to create a socioeconomic distinction with the INFINITI brand? And please, tell us what Nissans all these Doctors, Lawyers and VP's are driving in your area? Ever since Nissan pissed away the Maxima as a near BMW competitor from the mid-1990's, virtually of the aforementioned professionals in my area have been forced into Infiniti dealerships. Not by me, mind you, but by NISSAN itself.

    Sorry if my previous post was interpreted differently than I intended. Frankly, I'd much rather sit next to an honest landscaper that makes $25,000 a year beautifying our neighborhoods than an ambulance chasing trial lawyer that makes $25 million a year on extorsionist settlements that we all pay for in higher health care costs. So there. ;)
  • greanpea68greanpea68 Posts: 1,996
    Sorry if my previous post was interpreted differently than I intended. Frankly, I'd much rather sit next to an honest landscaper that makes $25,000 a year beautifying our neighborhoods than an ambulance chasing trial lawyer that makes $25 million a year on extorsionist settlements that we all pay for in higher health care costs. So there.

    THat's cool :shades:

    The Maxima sales decreased mainly because the Altima was upgraded nicely and had plenty of power with a 6 cyl,.... Even Toyota's Avalon has been on a decline in sales.

    What are Doctors, Lawyers, and VP's driving? ..... Only the best Nissan product available ;)

    Mostly driving Murano LE, Loaded up Maximas, and Loaded up Hybrids...

    WSJ.... I can assure you of this. Nissan isn't selling vehicles any cheaper than $13k... Maybe $13,500.00 :D

    GP
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