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Can VW Overtake Toyota and GM To Become #1?

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 51,804
    Ah, yes. Build it and they will come. Maybe that's why their streets are so darn clean....

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  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 49,700
    edited December 2015

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 51,804
    Huh! Where do you think that big jump for Chrysler/Fiat came from? Jeep maybe?

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  • texasestexases Posts: 6,911
    Jeep, I bet. Proves that CR has a very limited impact on sales...all the FCA brands were on CR's 'worst reliability' list.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 49,700
    There's scuttlebutt in the car biz that FCA won't be solvent much longer. Just forum chat though.

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  • texasestexases Posts: 6,911
    I just checked, the FCA brands were 5 of the 7 worst brands - at least they're consistent!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 51,804
    I don't think so. Some of their US plants are working full steam.

    I'd be more worried about Volvo and Jaguar. I don't see them lasting but a few more years at the rate they are going.

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  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 49,700
    They probably are all "safe". We've lost a few but so long as Mitsubishi is around in the US, there's hope for the rest.

    I'd add Tesla to your list too.

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 51,804
    edited December 2015
    I don't think so. I don't see Volvo as sustainable, and Jaguar is shaky. Tesla? Well that depends on what companies like Audi will do. Telsa seems to live quite well off its stockholders.

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  • fintailfintail Posts: 37,193
    If nationalistic buying becomes a thing among some (and it is already), Volvo can maybe eke out survival with that group alone. Right now though, I seriously doubt it is running in the black, and no way is Jag or LR doing so.
  • berriberri Posts: 5,894
    It's been a few years, but the last time I was at a Chicago Auto Show the trend in upscale cars on display seemed to include white leather seats. I recall that the Volvo ones were the only ones that were getting dark spots from peoples dark pants and jeans. Kind of turned me off on their materials.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 51,804
    Yes I think denim jeans were the main culprit there.

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  • jpp5862jpp5862 Wilmington, NCPosts: 757

    Yes I think denim jeans were the main culprit there.

    My S60 has light tan leather seats and I was noticing yesterday that it has some blue coloring on the seat cushion from my jeans.

    I really like the car and how it drives, but glad I'm leasing it.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 30,384
    edited December 2015
    Will GM ever move back up to the top? Will they be able to survive by importing cars from China?


  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 51,804
    Well most Americans "got over" their cars being made in Mexico.

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  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 49,700
    Moving to the top may not be the best goal. Look at how VW got there, at great expense and loss of reputation.

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  • fintailfintail Posts: 37,193
    Mexico and China aren't exactly apples to apples.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 51,804
    mangoes to pomegranates?

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  • carboy21carboy21 Posts: 756
    edited December 2015

    mangoes to pomegranates?

    fintail said:

    Mexico and China aren't exactly apples to apples.

    Highest selling iPhones in the world are made in China.

    I prefer Chinese made cars then made by lazy overweight overpaid thugs in Detroit.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 37,193
    edited December 2015
    Phones and cars are even more apples to oranges than China vs Mexico.

    Highest selling iphones weren't designed in China, just more multinational overpaid irresponsible untouchable executhugs (if we're going to use that term, let's use it for both sides) taking advantage of exploited labor and a regime that's the grossest IP, social, and environmental offender in the modern world.

    I'd buy a Mexican built car before a Chinese car, just for what it supports. Mexico is a bastion of justice in comparison.
    carboy21 said:

    mangoes to pomegranates?

    fintail said:

    Mexico and China aren't exactly apples to apples.

    Highest selling iPhones in the world are made in China.

    I prefer Chinese made cars then made by lazy overweight overpaid thugs in Detroit.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 51,804
    Ah, so management thugs rather than labor thugs...well, okay.



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  • berriberri Posts: 5,894
    I don't see how shipping cars from China is a long term solution for GM - high freight cost, long supply chain and currency issues. I think it will primarily be low volume, more specialty or niche products that they import to the US.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 51,804
    Yeah, but a Chinese auto worker makes $2 /hr to start. That's about 1/10th of a GM worker. Do the math--that adds up.

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  • berriberri Posts: 5,894
    China wages are rising fairly fast lately and it won't be long before their workers catch on to benefits. If you do the math, I'd think Mexico would beat China for big items like cars. Less expensive freight, closer tied in plants for the supply chain and still fairly low wages and benefits. In the end, I don't think that the UAW and D3 were the primary impetus behind Japan Inc. factories in the US. I believe it was currencies and supply chain that drove it (at a politically opportune time as well). But that's just my opinion and I know this subject has a lot of differing perspectives.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 51,804
    Japan was also under threat of retaliation by the U. S. government if they didn't cut the D3 some slack. Japan was slaughtering the American auto industry at one point. I think that without government interventions Japan would have wiped the US auto industry off the map. If you doubt this, look at the British auto industry and what happened to it because of lousy cars and bad management and militant labor. Who owns Rolls and Bentley NOW?

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  • carboy21carboy21 Posts: 756

    Japan was also under threat of retaliation by the U. S. government if they didn't cut the D3 some slack. Japan was slaughtering the American auto industry at one point. I think that without government interventions Japan would have wiped the US auto industry off the map. If you doubt this, look at the British auto industry and what happened to it because of lousy cars and bad management and militant labor. Who owns Rolls and Bentley NOW?

    US regulators very recently hounded Toyota about the unintended acceleration scandal and the CEO of Toyota had to come to USA and apologize in the Congress.
    Compare that to the free pass given to GM when the faulty ignition switches killed scores of people.
    Now VW is being hounded for their increasingly popular TDI engines.
    In the airline industry, the incompetent big three US carriers are running a campaign to hobble the highly successful middle eastern airlines like Emirates , Qatar airways and Etihad.
    It is obvious that USA cannot compete with the worldwide brands that are beating the crap out of the US companies.
    It won't be long before rest of the world starts boycotting American goods.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 51,804
    Well it only points to the obvious myth of the "free market".

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  • fintailfintail Posts: 37,193
    edited December 2015
    Being hyperbolic, or just trolling? Every nation treats its own industries with kid gloves.

    Could be worse, one can look at Air Canuckistan which gets just as many complaints, if not more. Comparing any of the low cost - marginal quality - low amenity (do people really expect to be coddled on a $270 ATL-SEA RT?) US carriers (who can survive on domestic routes where the competition won't compete) to the state-sponsored Middle Eastern carriers who don't need to turn anything close to a profit as they can be subsidized by terrorist supporting states, is as apples to oranges as cars vs iphones. Using these as an example of the US not being competitive makes me wonder, maybe someone was offended at mention of how Britain lost it all when it turned its back on its industries, and will never return to leadership in anything but turning away from past crimes.

    "It won't be long before rest of the world starts boycotting American goods"

    LULZ, bring it. Neither Germany nor Japan are going to boycott American goods. It was a second page story in Germany last month, and people see it as something political, but not too important. The rest of the world will continue lining up for American pop culture, Mickey D's, Coca Cola, American personal tech, clothing, etc etc. The US still does "cool" better than anyone.
    carboy21 said:


    US regulators very recently hounded Toyota about the unintended acceleration scandal and the CEO of Toyota had to come to USA and apologize in the Congress.
    Compare that to the free pass given to GM when the faulty ignition switches killed scores of people.
    Now VW is being hounded for their increasingly popular TDI engines.
    In the airline industry, the incompetent big three US carriers are running a campaign to hobble the highly successful middle eastern airlines like Emirates , Qatar airways and Etihad.
    It is obvious that USA cannot compete with the worldwide brands that are beating the crap out of the US companies.
    It won't be long before rest of the world starts boycotting American goods.

  • berriberri Posts: 5,894
    Those US and Canadian plants let Japan build and sell a lot more cars than they were capable of shipping here from their home factories and facilitated their move into larger cars and trucks. The shorter supply chain saved them time and money and at the time of all that I believe the Yen was pretty strong, so US production was actually cheaper than in Japan. I kind of feel that D3 and their tactics backfired on them really. But US consumers benefited because the old Detroit oligopoly was overthrown allowing quality and value to markedly improve over the old days.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 30,384
    I wonder why Toyota never did as promised with building the Prius here. My guess is too many parts that cannot be built with our environmental laws. They still have that empty plant?

    Made-in-America Prius fades into the future

    http://www.autonews.com/article/20130610/OEM01/306109991/made-in-america-prius-fades-into-the-future
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