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2009 Nissan Maxima

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  • Not fair, you caught me in the middle of my Johnnie Walker Blue with that response. In looking at the BMW 328i, it has a 2.8 liter V6, no doubt a fine automobile but anemic in HP (230 BMW vs 290 for Maxima/280 for Acura) yet it can keep the 0-60 time at 6.3 compatible with the other 2 cars, performance wise a champ as you call it. I just find the car to be smaller than both the Tl and Acura if space is a decision making consideration. That is why I passed up the BMW, no I did not just walk by it with blinders on, I had to take space into consideration, otherwise I would have a Audi A5.
    On another note, I just never figured that comparability between cars would be based on price and thought it was more towards what the manufacturer is trying to accomplish. I considered the Honda Accord in looking for my 4 door sedan but found it to be bland, spiritless, and uninspiring when compared with the Maxima. Great value, but just not exiting enough.
  • sergeymsergeym Posts: 262
    Wow! A new BMW with a 2.8 liter V6! Must be a rare find.
  • Is the Spare Tyre full size alloy or Steel
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    I agree, although the 3 series has grown quite a bit over the past 2-3 decades, BMW keeps it just enough smaller than the 5 series that it does not offer quite the rear seat space of the Maxima, Camry or TL. It is a space compromise that many can't afford to make.

    On the performance front, BMW has always used Clydesdales to measure from, whereas most Japanese manufacturers appear to use Shetland Ponies. You may recall that Acura/Honda, Mazda, Nissan and several other Japanese manufacturers had to restate (lower) their horspeower ratings a couple of years ago when they were independently found to be overstated. BMW, Mercedes and Porsche would never have tried that, even on "gullible" Americans. The [non-permissible content removed] tried to make it seem like a new SAE measurement standard was being implemented, but the fact is, they were caught cheating. And even now I still think the European horses are bigger than the Japanese ones.

    Another big part of the performance difference is BMW's RWD setup and excellent drivetrain efficiency. Anything over about 200 horspeower in FWD doesn't add much to performance. Witness my 190hp 1995 Maxima that was tested at 6.6 - an extra 100 hp (and 600 lbs) only saves you 0.3 seconds. When BMW puts their 300 hp in a RWD 335i, they get sub 5 second 0-60. It's almost impossible to get a similar sized FWD car down to under 6 seconds, let alone 5. We'll have to see how Acura does with AWD in the 300hp TL, but that adds even more weight and AWD has at least 5-8% lower drivetrain efficiency than RWD.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Wow! A new BMW with a 2.8 liter V6! Must be a rare find.

    Give him a break - that was the Johnny Walker talking. ;)

    I'm sure with a clear mind, he would have written 3.0 liter (non-turbo) I6.
  • tom17tom17 Posts: 134
    sanjaysdca

    Which car did you end up with ?
  • Four doors and space was important to me...
    Ended up with MDX Tech with Power Tail Gate

    Here is my rationale/thinking process

    2009 Maxima
    Liked the car.... but I thought 35K is little too high for what it offers (my opinion). And somehow I was not that enthusiastic after the drive... Cannot pinpoint the cause

    2008 TL. Nice car, liked the fit and finish, Decent space, I was getting one for 28.5K base & 31.5K for TL type S with NAV. I probably would have bought this if not MDX. A good value.

    2008 RL: Could not understand the purpose of this car. Is not significantly better then TL type S. Rear seat space is less then TL

    Audi A6: 3.2L engine felt weaker. Liked 4.2...but it was over my budget

    BMW 528: Best driving car. Was putoff by the I-Drive. wife did not like the all around visibility - specially from B piller back.

    Lexus GS: Nice car, good treatment by dealer, was priced well too (41K for base). Dont really know why I didnt consider it after first test drive

    M35: Best overall 4 door CAR. Good space, good driving & dealership experience. If TL was not 31K I would have bought this (CAR)

    E350: Like the design. But after reading the reliability issues here at edmunds I scratched it off.

    Genesis: This is the car I really wanted to like. The testdrive was OK. Has all the Doodads that you can think off. Was put off by Kerney Mesa Hyundai Dealer after he said "Genesis is probably too rich for you". Hyundai brand was scratched off

    Suburu Outback: We do quite a bit camping etc. Thought a wagon might be a good thing to consider. Suburu Outback 3.0R is selling very well. Very difficult to find.

    Finally Acura MDX: Was a good balance of the space we needed and the most car like 7 seater you can buy. 7 seater was not my first choice, but it was most PRACTICAL choice for us. Acura also had good incentives (Got mine for $358xx +TTL)

    Other SUV's that I drove either too soft or too expensive.

    A long confusing journey to buy a car
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Wow, that's an interesting set of vehicles you cross shopped - you are going to send out4cat back to his Johnny Walker tring to comprehend all of those violations of the manufacturers' marketing intentions.

    But I have to ask about some of the prices.

    - The TL and TL-S at $3k+ BELOW invoice? $7k below MSRP? And the MDX you bought at $35.8k was at $4,300 below invoice and close to $9,000 under MSRP? I haven't been seriously shopping lately, but those seem like huge discounts. Is Acura that desparate? Where are you located?

    - If you took your negotiating skills to the Nissan dealer and got a similar discount, you'd be looking at a $27-28k Maxima. Would that have changed your mind?

    - On the A6 4.2 being over your budget, but the E350 not? I get A6's when I take my 911 in for service and in our area, the actual price after discounts of an A6 4.2 is less than an E350 (and even 535i). But all of these are in the low to mid $50's.

    - What made you describe the M35 as the best overall car? The Infiniti dealers can't give them away here and the 2 people I know that bought one are both moderately unhappy. Ho-hum performance and driving dynamics, lousy gas mileage, and just not a "luxury feel". I have only riden, not driven the car, but even from the passenger seat, it wasn't very impressive.

    - Did you consider used? I've never bought a used car, but a friend that had been shopping for a LS460 recently bought a 2004 S500 4-matic w/ 31k miles in absolutely pristine condition for $35,000 including a (additional) 4/50k extended warranty. With basic entry level luxury sedans like the Maxima pushing $35k+ and mid-level luxury sport sedans in the $45-$55k+ range, that $35k S-Class (or even cheaper A8 or 750i) looks like a great deal to someone who wants the extra space. Did you consider that option?
  • It was interesting set.. or as my wife says irritating set as these vehicles have nothing in common except price... Towards the end she refused to come with me for test drives.

    About the pricing... All prices are in Southern California. I used carsdirect.com in zipcode 90501 for comparision...and decided to shoot for 500 to 1000 below carsdirect prices.

    For example this morning cars direct had following prices:
    TL: 27.9K..so 28K is not that great
    TL type S: 32.8 K

    A6 3.2 base: 40.7K..add some options and tax ~45K
    A6 4.2: 46.8 K add options and tax ~ 50K above my budget

    E350 base: 41K add options etc ~45K. If I could wait till January I might have considered this... as there will be big deals on E350 in January to march time frame.

    MDX Tech with PTG: 37.2K..so 35.8 is not that out of line. There is factory to dealer incentive of 4000...so I dipped 300 into his hold back.

    Infiniti M: They have 3000 fectory to dealer incentive + 3000 loyalty cash for infiniti owners... That is 6K off invoice.

    My assessment of Infiniti might be tainted as I have owned G20, I30, first gen Q45...and have been spoiled by the service. If Infiniti had a mid size non nissan based 7 seater I might have considered.

    Maxima dealers here in So Cal are not that willing. Having said that I did not like the Max enough to start negotiating. Moreover I generally dont like buying first model year car.

    No I did not consider used. I generally buy new, take care of them, and run them to ground
  • Tom,
    2008 MDX with Tech Pkg
    Sterling grey
    Black interior
    No other add ons

    Resisted buying a 7 seater for a long time...but in the end practicality won....
  • The funny thing is I knew it was a 3.0 liter and for some reason associated 328 with a 3 series 2.8 liter (My fuzzy logic).
    It is Mercedes that designates model number based on engine displacement (E350 is a 3.5 liter, C300 is a 3.0 liter, S550 is a 5.5 liter, you get the idea, makes sense too).
  • I totally agree with you on the M35/45 model from Infinity, here in the D.C. area, they are allover the place but I still say the design is uninspiring. I don't quite know why Infinity struggles with the design/appeal when it comes to this vehicle. In pricing an M45 a few months ago, I almost dropped when I saw the sticker price over 50K, BMW 5 series is definitely the choice when looking at that price range.
  • tom17tom17 Posts: 134
    My assessment of Infiniti might be tainted as I have owned G20, I30, first gen Q45...

    Good luck with the MDX. The discounts are amazing. My wife drives a 98 I30 and I recently traded by 1990 Q45 (had for 14 years) with 180K miles for a new GS350 ($7K discount off $52K sticker). I must say the Infiniti service department is great. Still gave me a loaner just for an oil change on my 18 year old Q.

    The current Infiniti offerings turn way too high RPM on the highway for me.

    What is up with the E350 in January? I did not consider Mercedes since Consumer Reports rates them the worst reliability of any make sold in the US.
  • I love it. It is a sexy and beautiful car. :)
  • Does anyone know if there will be any incentive's on the 2009 maxima in the near future. Could someone post what there leases are on either a sport with navagation or prem with navagation. Thank you
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Thanks for the response - and referral to carsdirect. I haven't used them in the past, but will certainly consider them as an info source in the future.

    Unfortunately (or not) it appears that economic conditions are better in my zip code (20815) than yours. The prices on the Acuras and Mercedes are $2-3k higher here in the DC area than in Southern California. But there are still some impressive deals.

    Regarding the E350 at $45k or less loaded, that is not my first choice in a luxury performance sedan, but at $10k under MSRP, seems hard to beat as the best deal. The carsdirect price for a 535i is full MSRP. I can get a 535i $1k under US invoice by cutting a deal in PA and doing a European Delivery, but that isn't comparable to going down the street and buying from your neighborhood dealer. As for Mercedes reliability, I know it's only anecdotal, but I have at least 4-5 friends and business assocaites who have logged 150k+ miles on E-class's without any major issues. One bought a new E320 Bluetech last fall and his two kids have the previous E-classes, one of which hit 300k miles recently. Other than the fact that diesel is 15% higher than premium gas in our area, he is pretty happy with 25 mpg in the city and 35+ mpg on a recent 1,000 mile roundtrip to Kiawah Island with 2 (large) passengers and 3 sets of golf clubs in the trunk.

    All of this doesn't bode well for Maxima dealers trying to get full MSRP (i.e. $37k+ ). When a Maxima is effectively priced halfway between a TL and a E-class and approaching some other true luxury cars and RWD sport sedans, even the most loyal Nissan customers have to question the prudence of spending that much. I suspect that with the economy the way it is, 2009 Maxima's will soon be selling for under invoice.
  • 2009 Maxima's will soon be selling for under invoice.

    Sooner than you might expect.

    teamdirect.com (Atlanta)
    dobbsdirect.com (Memphis)
    fitzmall.com (PA)
  • Everytime Merc revamps the model completely the o;d one sells at a steep discount.

    Last time when they rewamped S class the outgoing S class was selling for 20K off MSRP.
    New 2010 E350 is scheduled to arrive in March 09...My guess is we will see discounts begning January

    Sanjay
  • Few of my friends have used carsdirect and have been happy with no nonsense shopping experience.

    So Cal seems to be doing well...There is lot more competition...and people, I believe, like to show off more then east coast.

    As they say So Cal is famous for
    Beaches, Cars, and Structured Bodies.

    OUT4CAT: Max is a beauty...dont get me wrong.
    Take good care of that VQ engine...Its very sensitive to gasoline you put in...My 2000 I30 needs either Cheveron or Shell Gas. Else Check engine light comes on...
  • go_mdx1go_mdx1 Posts: 135
    Yep, you can get close to $4k off MSRP - if you look hard enough. Dobbs Nissan had great prices on the internet. However, when I started to negotiate, they added on "required" extra options (pin stripes, protection packages, nitrogen tires, etc..) and much higher dealer prep fees than the other guys.
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