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2010 Toyota Camry

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  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116
    Disagree, drive a FWD with stability contol blows the RWD out especially when cornering, BMW's next hot rod is going to be.FWD

    Not holding my breath on that one.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,456
    Yes I agree - FWD is much safer than RWD. Let off the gas and the front end comes right back. RWD is way too twitchy.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116
    I ask, is it better to go off the road front end first or rear end first? At least in the former case, a driver instinctively tends to do the right thing before he or she leaves the pavement -- ease off the gas and steer into the turn. In the latter, you've got to catch that rear end fast before it comes around and you're just going along for the ride

    That is totally apples and oranges. In a fwd car, you aim the front wheels where you want the car to go and hit the gas, pulling the car through a turn. In a rwd car, you typically use braking to put weight over the front tires and the apply throttle after the apex, pushing the car though the turn.

    In a fwd car, letting go of the gas mid turn unloads the rear wheels, spinning the car off the road backwards (or going into a turn with your foot on the brake - trail braking - gives a little bit of extra rotation in a pre-runaway Toyota world where you could push the gas and the brake together). If you overcooked it to begin with, you just plow straight off the road without the spin.

    In a rwd car, you still brake in to a turn to get weight over the front wheels, but as you apex you want to transfer the weight to the rear wheels. Usually, if I have traction (i.e. not snowing) I feel like I have a lot more options in a RWD car. Braking will usually give understeer, and a foot in the carpet will usually bring throttle induced oversteer. Trail braking can also give oversteer if you keep the back end too light.
  • acdiiacdii Posts: 753
    If people really learned how to drive a car on a skid pad, they would easily go for a RWD car. The one and only thing FWD has over RWD is being able to get moving in slippery conditions, and only due to the weight factor. But, that weight factor is meaningless when you apply power to the wheels. What is the very first thing a car does when you accelerate? It lifts the front end off the ground, reducing traction to the drive wheels in FWD, but transferring weight to the rear wheels in RWD, added traction. Add in torque steer, and you can easily see why real drivers prefer RWD over FWD.

    In slippery conditions, in a RWD car, if you feel the rear end start to move while under power, lifting off the gas immediately puts the rear end back in place. With light feathering you can easily control forward motion. In a FWD car, you have your braking, your steering and your power all on the same set of tires, if you loose traction, you loose all 3. It is much easier to push the steering through when power is not being applied to the front wheels than it is to steer when your front wheels are slipping. I drove RWD car and trucks since I got my license back in the early 80's. I prefer RWD, because it gives me more control than FWD, even with all the gimmicks, can ever do.

    In a RWD car, a pair of snow tires in the rear is all you need, in a FWD you need them on all four corners.

    In a RWD car, adding 200 pounds to the trunk is all that is needed for added traction, can't add additional weight to a FWD car.

    In a RWD car, if the rear end starts to come around, lifting the gas, or applying power will correct it.

    In a FWD car, if the rear end starts to come around, Hang on, you are going for a ride. The rear end does come around in FWD, and when you least expect it. I got rid of our much loved Hyundai Veracruz, only because it was FWD and the rear end had a habit of coming around in the snow. I had a 79 Plymouth Horizon TC3, it took me for a ride when I was making a turn onto an on ramp, I hit a slick spot, the rear end broke loose and away I went around for 3 spins before smacking a curb, and I was only going 20 MPH. Since then I only drove RWD until recently when I needed a more economical car, the Crown Vics were getting too expensive to drive, only getting 18 MPG. I got a Prius, Hated it, could not stand the FWD wheel slip and stop traction control, I did not feel safe in it. Got the Hyundai, it was fine for our driving , but had severe steering torque when you applied hard throttle, and the above mentioned problem in snow, had a Camry Hybrid, It was OK in all weather, but handled like a rowboat. I now have Fusion Sport, I would have preferred an AWD, but none were available, and it is a chore to drive in snow. It has enough power to light up the front tires, and it does it quite frequently when making a turn, needs better tires, but it handles OK. The car would be so much better if it were RWD though.

    Here is the biggest thing RWD vs FWD. When you loose traction in FWD, you lose not just travel, IE drive wheels, you lose steering as well. In RWD if you lose traction, you only lose it in the rear, where power is being applied, but you still have full steering, unless you are on ICE, then it doesn't matter what you drive, you are hanging on for the ride. With subtle throttle applications you can also steer the car with the rear wheels, but you cant do that with FWD. This is why RWD is preferred for drivers, better overall control, but because of the influx of easier to produce FWD cars over the past 30 years, people no longer know how to drive properly in RWD, and are basically scared of them because they lack the knowledge of how to handle one.

    My 69 YO mother drives a Lincoln Town Car in all weather, though she prefers if I drive her if there is snow, she knows how to drive a RWD car in snow, and hates FWD, she had one go off the road with her because she lost steering when she lost traction, but has never had that happen to her with the RWD cars she has. She was taught how to drive in a RWD car, same as me.

    Just curious, but what does this have to do with the Camry? :confuse:
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    edited March 2010
    Actually we should be thankful for the strong popularity of FWD and F/awd. Look at all the safety features that have been designed in over the past 20 years in order to dramaticlaly increase their safety factor.

    Now put those in the RWD vehicle that was safe to begin with.....

    Even the newest Porsche C4 is a beneficiary. The electromagnetic clutch now used to linearly apportion engine torque to the front wheels is right out of the F/awd Ford Escape's "playbook".
  • pixshooterpixshooter Posts: 51
    edited March 2010
    Back to topic~~~~
    Toyota Repair Document Uncovered: Toyota warned dealers of throttle surging in 2002
    http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/03/22/toyota.throttle.warning/index.html?hpt=T2 Read Toyota Service Bulletin

    The internal Toyota document was given to CNN by a group of attorneys now seeking a nationwide class-action lawsuit against the company. Ditlow said the document -- not previously made public -- indicates Toyota knew much earlier about an electronic connection to sudden acceleration problems. He also said the bulletin was apparently ignored or hidden from the public not only by Toyota, but also by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.

    Read National Highway Traffic Safety Administration memo

    "The government is really hiding this information from the consumer," Ditlow told CNN. "They're in a conspiracy with the auto industry to keep these out of the public's sight."

    The attorneys now suing Toyota say the repair bulletin is proof the car company knowingly lied to the public about the causes of sudden acceleration, blaming floor mats or stuck gas pedals instead.

    "They can fix these problems easily," said Tim Howard, a Northeastern University law professor who heads the legal group suing Toyota. "But it would cost them about $500 a car nationwide. If you have six [million] to seven million cars, you add the numbers -- it's between $4 [billion] and $5 billion. It's hard to actually tell the truth when those numbers are at the bottom of that truth."

    NHTSA did not respond to requests for comment. And Toyota did not respond to questions about the bulletin, but it issued a statement to CNN attacking Howard and his fellow lawyers.

    "Toyota strongly disputes these completely baseless allegations being driven by plaintiff's attorneys like Mr. Howard," the statement said. "Toyota intends to fight against these unfounded claims vigorously."
    Howard and his legal team say they plan to appear in federal court in San Diego, California, later this week, trying to persuade a federal judge to combine the 88 individual lawsuits so far filed against Toyota into a single class-action litigation.

    Video of the Toyota service bulletin>
    http://clipta.com/Toyota_repair_document_uncovered__nNjg3NA==


    In related news>>> Toyota shareholders sue over fallen stock price
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100322/ap_on_bi_ge/us_toyota_investor_ire_5
  • 210delray210delray Posts: 4,722
    edited March 2010
    Surging, especially in this case going from 38-42 mph and back, is hardly the equal of sudden acceleration.

    Anyone who drove a carbureted car in the early 70s would consider this trifling.

    Plus this was hardly a "secret" document -- it was a Technical Service Bulletin that anyone can obtain by paying for it through a subscription service. I actually was able to obtain a number of TSBs online through a public library, at no charge. (These have since been removed from free access.)

    Another case of the lawyers groveling to cash in.
  • motorcity6motorcity6 Posts: 427
    My preference is RWD..Maybe it's because of my elevated age and RWD was all that was being produced for the greater part of my life..Each drive systems has it's advantage..My first ride was a tweaked 35 Ford, straight dual exhausts powered by a flathead 1948 V-8 .so I am dated..Owned many FWD cars, no AWD..

    Waiting on my Mustang GT, 2010 or 2011..

    Camry update--2002 XLE gas mileage--4banger-23.04mpg versus 2006 Pontiac GPGT w/S/C 260hp V-6---20.85mpg---similiar driving routes, not much of a difference in gas mileage..I buy gas for both, Camry on a cheap regular and the Pontiac on Shell V-plus less 6% due to old shell credit card. Why go the 4-banger route???
  • acdiiacdii Posts: 753
    Wait on the Mustang until you can get one with the 5.0. Right now my Flex EB has 35 more HP and can smoke a Mustang GT, and it is only a V6 on 87 O. That Camry mileage is pretty low, is that all city driving?
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Your 2.5 ton Flex with 355 horses won't smoke a 1.7 ton Mustang with 315 horses.

    The EB Flex is fast, but not that fast.

    Back to your regularly scheduled Camry. :)
  • motorcity6motorcity6 Posts: 427
    The Pontiac is a glutton on gas mileage, however the Camry should win the economy by a larger margin..In the last 3 yrs I have driven the Camry probably 300 miles.. It is female driven and gets about 1 fillup/monthly..The Pontiac gets a weekly dose of petrol..

    The Flex sounds great and I shall be on the lookout for an road comparsion between the GT and the racy Flex....

    Driving pattern is 50/50, town/open road. Sarasota County, mainly Venice area.

    The local Camry dealer has had 4-2011 SE w/sunroof, mats and the Toyo policy on his lot for almost 2 mos, and was willing a couple weeks to eliminate dealer fee, mats,Toyo policy charge and discount the base by 18%..

    Owning a Camry SE-4banger might save me 50.00 a month on gas. However I believe that the price of gas will "skyrocket" within the next 18 mos due to our left-hand leadership of the WH...and the raising of gas mileage, fleet stds from 2020 to 2016.. $7.00/ gal on the horizon...
    ,
  • acdiiacdii Posts: 753
    edited April 2010
    It all depends on who is behind the wheel! :) Between the Flex and the Stang, the difference in the quarter can be as little as .6 seconds, and it all boils down to who gets out the chute first, and if the lighter Stang spins any rubber, Flex wins. I fully expect a Mustang Gt with a competent driver to be able to beat the Flex in a race, but an average drive in a Stang against a competent driver in the Flex, would make for an interesting race. A Taurus SHO with a CAI and tune ran 12 seconds, other than a weight penalty on the Flex, a CAI and tune would make the Flex one scary fast ride.

    However I believe that the price of gas will "skyrocket" within the next 18 mos due to our left-hand leadership of the WH...and the raising of gas mileage, fleet stds from 2020 to 2016.. $7.00/ gal on the horizon...

    And watch, no one will be bashing Obama like they did Bush. If you find a car you like that isn't a Hybrid, or sub compact, better get it now, you wont find one in 6 years, not with the average MPG being 35 MPG. Anything larger than a corolla or civic will need to be a hybrid, or be really underpowered.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    Mustang, Camaro, Charger, Corvette, and Viper or only about BIG IRON. Porsche is about finesse and GREAT driving dynamics.

    Stop waiting for the Mustang and shop for a used Boxster or Cayman.

    I have owned a '67, '71, and '72 Mustang FB's, and lately a 2001 Mustang convertible, V6, manual. '01 was purpose bought for a run on the track at daytona.

    Our '95 LS400 gets 24.5MPG hwy.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    Did you know that Reagan, on the advice of Kissenger, was the cause of the huge gas price increase back then. The idea was to prop up the Shah of Iran by filling his personal coffers.

    IMMHO the best thing our government could do is pre-annonce gas tax increases over the next 10-20 years, a $ a year tax increase. Use the excess funding to build high speed railways and inner city subways.

    We really do need to wean ourselves off of foreign energy supplies.
  • 210delray210delray Posts: 4,722
    By the time Reagan took office, the Shah had already been overthrown, and the radical Muslims were in charge. In fact, the American hostages were released on Reagan's inauguration day.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    Sorry, you're correct, it was Nixon.

    Old age creeping up.
  • ksissonksisson Posts: 1
    edited April 2010
    I just got a 2010 Camry a couple days ago. I can't seem to find the feature that tells you how many miles per gallon you are getting. I looked in the owners manual and it shows it as a button on the steering wheel labeled DISP. My steering wheel doesn't have that button though. Is there another place that it can be or does this car not come with this feature? I can't imagine that it wouldn't have it. It is a basic feature on most cars.
  • jerryfyjerryfy Posts: 4
    Only XLE have "DISP" button.
  • motorcity6motorcity6 Posts: 427
    Like the Big Iron, it's Detroit!!!!! In my younger days I went the Porsche route, twice in Germany..Both new, took delivery at factory...58 Super Coupe, and a 59 Super Coupe..356s, The 58 was driven 22k miles in Germany, sold to a GI returning to the states, took delivery on the 59er and brought it back to states, sold with approx 30k miles, making my Porsche adventure fun and breakeven on costs..No problems and the autobahn was a freeway back in those days where you could let it all out..no limit from end to end..Gas was .18/gal at PX, and premium on the local economy was .25/gal..

    Owned 2 Camaros, 71 SS350, went 90k mi, 82 Z-28 wife's car, sold after 2yrs, weeny car. The 71 Camaro was awesome..

    Porsches are too expensive, dealers are too few, and they are too small..I will put my money on the Dearborn guys, Ford.

    We don't need high-speed rail, that's not in my vocabulary, gas tax increase, to pay for social transportation to keep the masses happy--not on my adgenda!!!

    At my senior age I will let you youngsters worry about the shift to socialism....
  • Just saw the 2011 Camry in Spruce Mica at 2 different dealers. The first knocked us off our feet; absolutely gorgeous with tiny pools of green in a black background,..looking like dark emerald pearls! Since the offered trade in was unacceptable for our 20,000 mile red Camry '07, we went elsewhere and were shown a Spruce Mica Camry looking like any other metallic paint! What a disappointment, and we can't account for the difference. It would worry me in case of requiring touch-ups! Our '07 looks great and has a moonroof to boot, so we'll hang in there for a Camry style change year! The 2011 looks too similar to the '09
  • fdm1fdm1 Posts: 1
    Just bought this car in February. I already have a 2007 Hylander Hybrid. I have been averaging 35 mpg overall. The 2007 averages 22.5 in the winter (MA) and 26 in the warmer weather. I am happy with the 35 mpg and hope it continues through the warmer weather. Using Mobile 1. The only negative at the moment is at highway speeds during windy conditions (wind in New England?) you feel the car moving and need to make steering adjustments. At the speed limits it is not a problem. Rear camera is a plus. Today's cars do not give you any rear visibility.
    The wife eminent domain-ed the Hylander (best car I have owned). Great acceleration, rear wheel drive handling, AWD when needed and SUV passenger and storage flexibility. The new Camry Hybrid engine is 147 hp plus 40 hp electric motor 189 hp total. Gives it enough for this type of car.
    Looking for the higher gas mileage and reliabilty for the long run!!
    Happy so far.
  • kingfans1kingfans1 Posts: 137
    I have been getting 32 mpg on my 2006 camry le v6. I use cruise control, shell 87 octane.. I am very impressed with this v6 engine that get 32 mpg.

    I will test using shell 91 v power to see If i can get up to 34 mpg. I will keep you update.

    http://www.fuelly.com/driver/hondavtec/camry

    thanks
  • motorcity6motorcity6 Posts: 427
    2002 Camry XLE, average MPG--23.11, 357 mi.., 2006 Pontiac Grand Prix GT-supercharged version MPG--21.98, 271 mi...Both cars are driven over the same routes, usually a/c is on, and sunroof open..It's Florida!!!!!

    The XLE is a 4-banger w/80k miles, and the Pontiac is the V-6 S/C with 44k miles.The XLE is driven by a woman, and I drive the Pontiac..

    The XLE runs on regular gas, and the other one on premium..V-Plus..and synthetic oil..

    I would venture to say that 70% of the cars in Florida carry the Foreign label, not BIG 3 vintage...just an observation..Ford now gives the best Big3 dealer coverage with GM and Chrysler at the bottom of the barrel..Hyundai and Kia seem to have more dealerships than there are gas stations..

    Keep buying the cars from the offshore guys for we must keep the Asian countries in "Good Health"..No more cars for me from the GM or Chrysler, so Ford is the only one left to receive consideration..

    Toyota builds a good car, don't want to offend anyone for after the recall and some lawsuits along with a stiff government fine for covering up a few safety problems, they will return to old way of doing business..
  • acdiiacdii Posts: 753
    2002 Camry XLE, average MPG--23...The XLE is a 4-banger

    2010 Fusion Sport, 3.5L V6, avg. 23.4 MPG. You might want to take that Camry back and have it fixed if you are only getting 23MPG with a 4 cylinder. :sick:
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    You don't know the driving style here, remember -- driving style and route are essentially everything to mileage. A V6 will get low 30s in the right conditions, where a 4-cyl can easily hit the teens under a lead-foot in town.
  • kingfans1kingfans1 Posts: 137
    I think people will still buy Toyota regardless of recall and news.. Toyota build good cars.
  • kingfans1kingfans1 Posts: 137
    Yes cold weather and windy condition will affect the mpg.. I lost about 3-4 mpg in that kind of condition.
  • motorcity6motorcity6 Posts: 427
    Great pick, Fusion Sport, my 2nd choice behind the Mustang GT or new V-6 w/performance pkg..Fusion Sports are priced right, great suspension, nice engine, sunroof, and leather available with out the door pricing around 22,000..for a loaded one..Beats Camry SE 4 or 6 bangers on pricing. by a wide margin.

    The 2002 Camry in my garage just received a 4-wheel brake job, 4 new tires, and a oil change, not performed by a discount house or Toyota dealer. A "Tire Rack" installer, 2 man shop, appt only, hands on, skilled mechanics, and not cheap, but good..Had 4 new Michelins put on the 2006 Pontiac, junked the 4 Handkooks which were shot after 10k miles..

    The driver of the Camry is somewhat aggressive so mileage probably suffers, and I will give it the triple-digit tuneup when I take her to airport next week..100+ for a few miles should blow out the carbon and dust..Always has worked for all my cars, tuneups are allowed@100k..or tradein to avoid a/c or tranny problems..
  • ntassistantntassistant Posts: 64
    I own a 2010 Avalon equipped with a 6-speed auto. transmission. The transmission is very annoying as it hesitates and seems to be confused. The majority of my driving is city driving. What I cannot stand is when I let my foot off of the accelerator, the car literally pulls back and hesitates significantly. It seems as though all power to the engine is cut off completely (almost feels like car is going to stall, but I know there isn't anything mechanically wrong). In other words, the car doesn't coast once the gas pedal is released.

    I have been reading extensive reviews from owners of 2005-2010 Avalons and many owners experience and complain of the same issue. It seems as though Toyota has purposefully designed the transmission to do this to help boost fuel economy.

    Anyway, I am very dissatisfied with my Avalon's performance. I am looking to trade it in for something else (another Toyota) that doesn't have this problem. For 2010, Toyota included the 6-speed auto. transmission on the Camry. For those 2010 Camry owners, do any of you experience this hesitation issue? Specifically those with the 4 cylinder engine? Prior to my Avalon, I owned a 2004 Corolla and this car's transmission was awesome! No hesitation of any kind, ever. This car would "coast" for long distances once I let my foot off of the gas pedal and NEVER hesitated.

    Any feedback from current 2010 Camry owners will be appreciated!
  • adamw812adamw812 Posts: 32
    Why don't you place the transmission into the manual shift mode and upshift it to the next gear to see if that cures your wanting to coast
This discussion has been closed.