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Acura RL

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Comments

  • jwilson1jwilson1 Member Posts: 956
    The RL is still a Legend outside of America.

    JW
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    hunter - Do you own an RL? I don't, and I think I would be insulting many of the actual RL owners who frequent this forum by telling them how decontented and overpriced their cars are.
  • hunter001hunter001 Member Posts: 851
    I almost bought an RL when I purchased my TL in 2000. I am not telling the owners how decontented their car is - they know that themselves...I am telling Honda to put its house in order. I am a Honda fan and would not want their products to be looked down upon, in the marketplace.

    Later...AH
  • l943973l943973 Member Posts: 197
    As an RL owner, I have no regrets on getting the RL over a TL. I occasionally drive his 2000 TL and would still get the RL even now.

    Some things I don't like about the TL.

    - seats too narrow/headrest doesn't tilt
    - driver side door arm rests are uncomfortable
    - center armrest is too low. Can't put your arm there.
    - rear seating feels cramped (not enough knee room)
    - windshield is too steeply raked. Generates glare sometimes (similar to my NSX)
    - no power tilt away steering
    - throttle response is only good a higher rpms
    (3000+). I like to keep rpms below 3000.
    - looks are subjective, but I love the looks of the RL and don't really like the TL styling that much.
    - stereo has too much treble and not enough bass
    (The RL stereo system is excellent). I had to turn the treble down to 1/4.

    Things that I like the TL over the RL
    - steering is more responsive
    - as quiet as the RL even with stock Michelins
    - had umbrella holders in the armrest
    - climate control is excellent

    thats about it.

    If you just look at content, its hard to justify an RL over an TL. The RL ride is much better the TL. My dad is thinking about trading in his 2000 TL (Ruby Red-15k miles) for an RL.

    The RL is an awesome car. I love it.
  • markindallmarkindall Member Posts: 1
    Response to fredvh's question: I Would like some real-world opinions on comparisons of the RL, TL, and ES300. In many articles they say the TL is the better bargain. Do you owners agree? I believe that you can get a new non Type-S for around 27,500.

    6 weeks ago I turned in my leased '99 RL and bought a '03 TL-S (for $30k, with spoiler). While I really liked the RL, it wasn't "fun". Great interior, liked the exterior styling, but it felt slow, engine was noisy, downshifts were often abrupt, etc. Drove the TL-S and found the interior very nice (not equal to RL, but sufficiently luxurious). Liked the styling, but the biggest improvement was the power and refinement of the engine/tranny. Silky smooth and MUCH more fun. The five speed Sportstick is fun too. The engine is much more quiet, the downshifts are seamless. Interior is slightly smaller, but close.

    Considered the ES300 - the interior has to be the richest in this class. But the performance was about the same as the RL, and that was my biggest frustration. Also, there was $6-8k difference in price.
  • gweinsteingweinstein Member Posts: 4
    I am considering buying a used RL '96 with 96000 miles. Any comment on reliability or expected mileage out of a well care RL will be greatly appreciated.
  • mike734mike734 Member Posts: 128
    Never buy the first year of any model car. Especially a Honda
  • lenscaplenscap Member Posts: 854
    I owned a first year 1988 Honda Prelude that I bought new. I got it the first month they went on sale, and everything about the car was a new design including the engine. I got rid of it eight years later with almost 100,000 miles and never had anything go wrong, ever.

    My family also had the original 1990 Lexus LS 400, bought three months after the cars came out. As with the Honda, it was flawless.

    Perhaps I was just lucky, I don't know.
  • mike734mike734 Member Posts: 128
    Yes you were lucky. Actually, you were probably the norm. However, It has been my experience that the new models experience more problems than the next models. Of course that only means that maybe 3 in a 100 have a problem instead of 1 in a 100. Anyway, Honda often make quite a few changes in the second and third years after a major change. I think the best year to buy is the last year of a model line. That is the year they come out with the SE models. They are a good value.
  • jsfknchstjsfknchst Member Posts: 1
    purchased a 98 Rl today, although I was planning on getting a 00/01 cl or tl (I test drove them both, but just didnt feel comfortable in them). Then I took the rl out for a spin... whooooooo niiiiiiiice. the comfort is outstanding. its like night and day compared to the cl/tl. even for a freakin' 98!

    Got a pretty good deal on it at a dealers auto auction. (having hookups is great)

    anyhow, just thought i share my joy of owning an rl.
  • goralgoral Member Posts: 145
    ...with 112K miles and it's running strong. Yes, there were couple problems along the way (window regulators, AC compressor, alternator, couple sensors, etc..), but we can easily live with those. We only want to get another 112K out of it... :)
  • kidbebopkidbebop Member Posts: 10
    Re: "I am considering buying a used RL '96 with 96000 miles. Any comment on reliability or expected mileage out of a well care RL will be greatly appreciated".

    I purchased a '96 RL Premium in September with 65,000 miles. I love the car. It's in great condition. I've already had two rear window regulators replaced under warranty. It could happen to any car. The car runs great. Has a great Bose sound system and chicks dig it.

    kidbebop
  • jmw4jmw4 Member Posts: 67
    Although car opinions are highly subjective, I have owned each of the above; the 99 TL, an 01 ES300(old style) and currently a 2000 RL. I had the tL for 3 years and enjoyed it very much for it's combination of good ride yet decent handling. The ES which I traded the TL in for was not enjoyable. It drove too much like a Camry, was not particularly fast, and did not handle that well. Most of all, the seat bottoms were too short, which I understand is a common complaint on the ES. The new model ES seats are also a tad short. The RL is an excellent ride, with a heavier feel, yet decent handling, decent speed and quiet on the highway. I recently drove a friend's new accord and although nice, it in my view does not compare to the ride of the RL.
  • satiresatire Member Posts: 71
    mike734-
    Had a '97 CL. Then a '99 TL. Both first year new models. Neither a problem. Granted each new year brings a host of goodies. But if you wait until "next year" to ensure you'll get more, then you'll never buy a new car.

    '99 TL-
    Speaking of which I drove my old TL again recently and after having my 2002 RL now for 5 months I'm amazed at the difference. While I still think Honda needs to get their act together on options and extras, the RL is much smoother than the TL. Rides better. Feels more substantial. Personally I think the 2002 RL handles as well as the TL if not better. "Smooth" is the only word to describe it. You can find more speed elsewhere. You can find more sport elsewhere. But if you want comfort and a smooth ride, then the RL is just fine thank you very much. However, I still hate the two pushes on the button to close the moonroof.

    Relentlessly,
    Lee
  • hawk4160hawk4160 Member Posts: 5
    Having owned two Legends, ('89 LS '94 GS). I can't wait for the introduction of the '04 RL (possibly Legend). I was the Sales Manager of an Acura store until just before the RL came out. Those '91 - '95 Legends were absolutely outstanding. I still own the '94 GS and with 230HP mated to superb handling, I hate to give it up, even at 120,000 miles. It's the best vehicle I have ever owned. It's been a problem free vehicle always serviced at the dealer. I could never warm up to the current RL with less power and a soft ride compared to the '94.

    I still have some contacts at Acura and here's what I was told by a factory rep about three months ago. The "03" will have minimum changes (which it does as outlined earlier in this section) and the NEW '04 will be an "early introduction" in the spring of '03. Dealers will receive very few '03 models of the RL as the factory tools up for the new model. Acura was ready to introduce a new model as an '03 but after further market research and firing of the RL Division Head in Japan, it was back to the drawing board to make some changes. Acura has always touted performance and luxury and that's what we customers want and expect from them. My contact could not be specific about content of the new car but I personally can't wait for the April/May '03 timeframe to find out what they have come up with. The rep did say to expect close to $50K for an MSRP. If it has what I think it will have, I'll say a fond farewell to the best car I've ever had. (If they still built it, I'd buy another '94 or '95 right now.)
  • jwilson1jwilson1 Member Posts: 956
    What you're saying concurs with what was published in a couple of mags a month or two ago. They had a little more (reliable???) detail, suggesting it may be a hybrid with -- as I recall -- about 200 hp internal combustion and 160 electric. You might do a search back in the posts here.

    JW
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    As much as we want, we're stuck with the RL name. Perhaps when Acura decides to revert back to names for their cars (instead of alpha-numerics) we'll see it again.
  • hawk4160hawk4160 Member Posts: 5
    I sure hope the new '04 RL is not JUST a hybrid. It's way too late now but my advice to the manufacturer would be to look at what they did with the Civic. They provided the hybrid for those who wanted it but retained the gas models for the rest of the more performance oriented customers. So why not do the same for the RL? Go ahead, make the hybrid if the market warrants it, but retain the luxury/performance model as well. And why not also provide a "S-type" high performance model for those of us who yearn for it. I personally find it embarrassing that the TL S-type has forty more ponies than the current RL. Just take a look at the E class Mercedes sedans. Up to 305 hp in the E500 and they're selling like hotcakes. So c'mon Acura. You have a lot of very loyal customers out there and a bunch more who jumped to Lexus, Mercedes, and Infiniti just waiting for you to deliver the goods. Anybody else agree??
  • jwilson1jwilson1 Member Posts: 956
    The point's moot. Honda has no desire to compete in a contest it can't win. It has not V8, and has scratched all notion of a V8 project. The Honda technology may progress -- that is where they excel, as you know -- but they will do something to carve a new luxury niche and they'll have to define performance in their own terms. Its styling may be derivative -- as it is now of the LS 400 and Benz -- and invite comparison but when you scratch the surface there will have to be something different, as it is now with the V6 that some feel is disappointing. Note that when I say different, I don't say better, only different and offering real value. This is why the hybrid and maybe awd offer possibility for Honda; these things are not available at this p ricing or in a true luxury car. Mercedes offers awd of course, with Audi, but only on a traditional platform. Honda may do something different.

    Like you, I'd prefer a power model ... but I think they're looking for another road. The performance road is too expensive for R&D and uncertain cometitiveness in the marketplace.

    JW
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    Yeah. Just look at the new Infiniti Q45- an expensive V-8, RWD sedan that very few are buying (the RL actually sells better). That's Honda's worst nightmare.
  • hawk4160hawk4160 Member Posts: 5
    First off, Merry Christmas to all of you on this board. Secondly, I couldn't agree more with what has been said. I've looked and driven the Mercedes E-class. A great driving car, five speed automatic with a select shift, great suspension, good power even in the E-320. Solid as a rock construction. A little expensive, especially if you load it up with all the high tech stuff that I really wouldn't want. Some of the dash ergonomics suck and would take some time to get used to the complexity. I looked at the Q and found it also a bit overwhelming with all the hi tech. And those headlights they are so proud of, yuk! Who needs all those little lights housed behind plastic. Honda/Acura likes to keep things simple and very reliable. I love that. (As a former pilot in the USAF, I can tell you that hi tech rarely means hi reliability.) But back to cars, I would buy the RL right now if it had more horsepower, a five speed automatic with manual option, and for heaven's sake, put the CD changer in the dash like the TL. The navigation system is the best in the industry as far as I can tell. Easy to use and readable due to it's size and position. Some of the others are a joke. And another very, very small thing ... why does the TL have a nice looking chrome Acura logo in the center of the steering wheel and the RL does not? Trivial I know, but just doesn't make sense to me. And just a bit more wood on the dash would spiff things up. I just hope Acura will provide something this spring for this Acura lover so that I can fall in love all over again. My '94 GS Legend stills runs like a young race horse but she may get tired soon considering the 120K me and the wife have put her through. And as for pricing, my '94 had a MSRP of $40K and was worth every penny I spent. The RL is a bargain now and even if the new one touches $50K, it will probably be a bargain as well. Let's keep our fingers crossed.
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    I believe...I think the new 03 Accord has a V6 with 240 HP...so, the lowly Accord gets 20 more HP than the RL (220?), which now really makes it absurd...they can get 260 from the V6 for the TL-S, but cannot figure out what to do with the RL...I am at the point where it is safe to say that they can drop in a 260 HP TL-S engine in there at literally no extra cost to them, as they make them now for the TL...it is one thing to plan so you are not stuck with an inventory of extra Q45s, but an engine already paid for will give the RL the stand-out that it needs...BTW, if they can get 260 HP for the TL-S, you know that they could squeeze 10 or 20 more for the RL and it would cost them pennies...nuff said from me

    Bob
  • hunter001hunter001 Member Posts: 851
    It is not easy to "drop in the 260HP TL-s engine into the RL". The RL is designed with a longitudinal engine (with a 90 degree configuration - not ideal for a V6) in mind while the TL-s is a Transversely mountable engine (with a 60 degree configuration - ideal in a V6). Unless they re-design the whole engine bay and a variety of other changes, it would be impossible to accomodate the high-tech TL-s engine in the RL bay (that currently houses the old-tech non-variable valve timing 3.5L engine). And unless they introduce variable valve timing technology (like every other manufacturer including Lexus, BMW etc), I think they have extracted the maximum possible power from this engine.

    Note: The 3.5L 90 degree Longitudinally oriented RL engine has absolutely nothing in common with the 3.5L 60 degree transversely mounted engine in the MDX/Honda Odyssey/Honda Pilot. The 3.5L engine in the MDX etc., is of the J-series of engines that include the 3.0L Accord engine and the 3.2L engines in the TL/CL/TL-s/CL-s.

    Later...AH
  • l943973l943973 Member Posts: 197
    I believe Honda/Acura uses its lower model cars as their testbed. They make sure everything is worked out on those cars before working on their higher end models. Plus it makes good business sense to redo the lower models first because thats where all the money is.

    The RL may only have less hp and a 4-speed auto, but it responds much quicker than a 225 hp TL with a 5-speed just because it has a bigger engine and it downshifts when the TL doesn't because of the extra gear.

    Even my Dad admits this with his 225 hp TL 5-sp auto. He drives my 210hp 99 RL and prefers that over his 00 TL. The only thing keeping him from switching is the parts on the RL are much more expensive than a TL.

    With the transmission problems in the TL, its good they didn't immediately put this in their RLs.
  • matt00matt00 Member Posts: 32
    Even though the RL will be replaced in 04, I am still interested in purchasing a new 2003 RL. Does anyone know if they added more sound proofing to the car? Also, are there any current dealer incentives on the 2003 RL.
    Appreciate any comments,
    Thanks,
  • hunter001hunter001 Member Posts: 851
    I think your "testbed" logic seems so lopsided that it tickles one's funny bone... basically what you are saying is that top-end technology should first appear in a Civic and then work its way up to an Accord after a few years and then onward to a TL/RL etc. ?? That is some logic !! If you smell the coffee and look around a bit, you will find that top-notch stuff first appears in the flagship model and then works its way downward, unlike what Honda has done with the RL. No wonder RL is the favorite whipping boy of every Automotive publication/journalist. They have stopped even bringing the RL into any comparison test with any of its supposed peers for the past several years, since it would be portrayed so miserably that it is no longer merely funny.

    The RL may have the same HP as a TL but it is a pure dog. It is ridiculous to say otherwise. The TL with its 225hp is a 6.7secs 0-60 car. The TL-s ups the ante even further. It will whip the RL and draw circles around it as far as acceleration is concerned. The smoothness of the 5-speed transmission is also way better than the RL's 4-speed transmission. Incidentally, the TL had a 4-speed transmission like the RL, years back. There was a minuscule percentage of trans failures due to a defective component in some cars, which Honda has been diligently replacing when needed and have also extended the trans warranty to 7yrs/100K miles for all vehicles regardless of whether they are affected or not. The RL is outdated in its segment, period ! No ifs or buts about it and Honda has really no excuses for maintaining it. Either ramp it up or retire it. When you find side curtain airbags and high-end seats, voice activated Navigation technology etc., in a low-end Accord, when those things are not even available in the flagship RL, it starts to really sink in, "testbed" logic notwithstanding.

    Your dad admits that the RL is great, but refuses to go for an RL making up some excuses about cost of parts etc. ?? I think he is a smart and diplomatic man ! JMHO.

    Later...AH
  • jwilson1jwilson1 Member Posts: 956
    Glad to see you stop by again!

    I've wondered if one of the reasons nothing is "done" about the RL is that enough people continue to like it (value/features, etc.) that Honda is happy with the sales, though very small comparatively. It's a group of buyers who really don't care if the performance folk go for a hike.

    I mean, it's clear they're not interested in a market leader. So with the next one they seem to be headed off in another small-market direction with hybrid engine etc. perhaps with an idea of laying claim to this small, but apparently loyal following ... of which I'm one.

    (Not that you asked, but I also have performance cars, but for a cruiser like this I see no reason to spend the money for some of the big buck hi-profile brands.)

    JW
  • kennyg5kennyg5 Member Posts: 360
    We all recognize that the RL is a "flagship" car lacking in cutting edge technology, but tries to make it up by lowering price and offering just enough features to keep a small and dwindling number of followers.

    Acura now intends to introduce a new RL with a hybrid engine in an effort to create a "niche" in the luxury car market. IMHO, Acura has committed serious marketing flaws. Flagship cars are not only supposed to showcase the technology of the auto maker, they are also supposed to attract as large a segment of the luxury car buyers as possible. Other Japanese nameplates (such as Lexus and Infiniti) are trying their best to compete head on with the Germans;one cannot help but wonder why doesn't Acura want to join in the competition? Acura/Honda has the capacity of making good cars. Just look at the MDX and Accord, which are selling at or close to MSRP. Why does Acura let the RL linger in obscurity for so many years while its lesser brethen are enjoying fame and properity? Acura's management has to take a good look at itself before answering the question.
  • jwilson1jwilson1 Member Posts: 956
    Technology from the bottom up? That doesn't make sense, imo. Mercedes, BMW, since you mention the Germans, usually work from the top down.

    Speculation has focused on hybrid, now that V8 rwd seems out, but I think it's almost as unlikely. Though I usually disagree with Edmund's I think they're right this time: expect a near-300 hp V6.

    JW
  • hawk4160hawk4160 Member Posts: 5
    If I disclosed the source of the following information, I might suddenly disappear from the planet. Listen up. Straight from Japan. The prototypes of the new RL (Maybe Legend again, but probably not) have been spotted on the test track with long range binoculars. Security is very tight. The RL assembly line is about to be shut down if they aren't already and production on the '04 is about to start. All plant workers have been sworn to secrecy (normal for Honda) but a few clues are out there from a couple of workers my source talked to. New engine with a lot more HP (still longitudinal) and now VTEC, mated to a new transmission (5 speed), entirely new body design/shape, standard options galore. Source would not comment on drive train except to say it is different (rear wheel or all wheel? He couldn't, (or wouldn't), say). Everything is very hush, hush but leaks are starting to surface. I have to believe that the above is accurate but it almost sounds too good to be true. You can either accept this info or throw it in the trash basket of your mind. I cannot personally vouch for it but the source lives in Japan right now and has never been known to fib about anything. I just hope his understanding of Japanese is good.
    As for "matt00", no more soundproofing was added to the '03 RL, only a bigger logo in the grill and a minor change to the wheels. I think the current RL is a great car and as far as I know there are no dealer incentives listed. When I spot dealer incentives I'll post it here. But as soon as this new "04" hits our shores, you can bet that Honda will fork over at least $4000 to move out all the remaining "03" inventory. If you can wait until late spring or summer, you should get a great deal on one of them. They are sticker priced about the same as the '02 if not exactly.
    I'll post more as I get it.
    And "Hunter001", it's probably a moot point but my old '94 Legend GS has the 3.2 longitudinally mounted engine and Honda brought it up to 230 HP by merely putting in bigger valves. I believe that if they wanted to, the 3.5 in the current RL could easily put out 250 to 260 HP with some very minor mods. But .... they have been putting all their effort and money into the replacement.
  • jwilson1jwilson1 Member Posts: 956
    I got your back.

    The fun begins!
    JW
  • jmw4jmw4 Member Posts: 67
    There are certainly faster, better handling cars out there than the RL, but that is not necessarily all inclusive in the evaluation. I drove a new Accord last week just to be curious and although faster and better handling than the RL, you certainly heard and felt the road more. It felt like a light but sturdy family sedan. A friend has a 5 series BMW and once again it is faster and handles better but he brings it into the shop every 2 weeks for electrical issues. For my money, I'll take the RL for it is fast enough, handles decently, and is a very comfortable ride. Lastly and most importantly the only time I see the service manager is at the time of it's scheduled maintenance.
  • l943973l943973 Member Posts: 197
    Hunter,

    I'm only guessing thats what they are doing. I don't work for Honda. If you look at their current models, it would seem that way.

    - Hybrid technology from Insight to Civic sedan.
    - Voice nav/Side Curtain airbags in Accord and in no Acura models.
    - Rear cameras first on the Honda Pilot before introduced in the 03 Acura MDX.
    - Dual climate control in the Accord and not in any Acura models. (not even in the 03 MDX).

    Of course, that isn't always the case. 03 MDX introduces drive by wire technology introduced in the NSX back in 95. 03 MDX is now 260 hp over the 240 hp Pilot. Side airbags first in the RL. Power tilt steering still only in the RL. (Actually that was one of my requirements since I use to hit my knee on the steering when getting in into my Integra)

    With all that said, I still wouldn't trade the quality and ride in the RL for any model TL. The build quality and quality of materials isn't up there with the RL.

    The 4-sp TL was introduced in Sept 99. My brother in law owned one before selling it to get a 530i. The transmission response was much faster than the new 5-sp autos. There was no delay when manually shifting. He had some quality control problems that I thought were unacceptable. Loose interior door panels, fuel lid cover wasn't completely flush with the side panel. Very thin sheetmetal. Got dings on the hood from hail. Our 91 Nissan Maxima and 94 Toyota were also parked outside and didn't get any dings.

    So a TL it can hit 60 in "6.7 seconds". Thats not really a big deal. 0-60 times wasn't a factor in my RL purchase. I keep a weekend car around for more spirited drives.

    What segment is the RL in? The only competitors I see are the Lexus GS300, Audi A6 2.8 and Volvo S80 2.9. (All in similar price ranges). If you feel the RL is slow, I wouldn't recommend testing any of the models I listed. From my experience, none of them start accelerating until you rev past 4000 rpm.

    When you compare the RL against these cars, its still competitive and a better value.
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    Thanks for setting me straight on the various engine issues between TL and RL...while your knowledge is certainly superior to mine, I will stick to one of my opinions...Honda knows how to get power out of engines, and, regardless of the design, it just seems silly that a $40K flagship has only 220 (?) while the Accord has 240...Honda can do better, and they do not need millions of $$$ to make the RL a performance power house...it may not be an M5, or an AMG, but they can do better, and for not much money...mind you, I am talking 260-280 HP, not 325, 350 or more...

    Bob
  • nwhsdnwhsd Member Posts: 10
    Admittedly, I am a Sucker for a luxury ride at a great price...
    I have heard that a 2003 RL w/Nav can be had for 36000, can anyone confirm? This would make my TL decision much more difficult. 5000 dealer cash was muttered by an Infiniti salesman who thought I was too hooked on his cars to not be concerned about sharing that with me. Any truth to this?
  • swsmsswsms Member Posts: 62
    I apologize if this has already been mentioned, but there is a blurb in the description for the North American International Auto Show that new Acura sedans will be previewed. I already knew about the upcoming TSX, but what could the other sedan be? Based on the most recent comments, it is likely to be the new RL replacement. I guess will have to wait until January 11 to see what Acura has been doing these last few years.
  • hunter001hunter001 Member Posts: 851
    l943973

    Incidentally, the 99TL with the 4-speed has gear ratios that were higher (numerically lower) than the 2000 onward TL, except in the 5th gear ratio of the 2000 onward TL/TL-s (which was non-existent in the 99TL), which essentially means that the 00+ TL would accelerate much better than the 99 TL (0.8 secs improvement in 0-60) while getting better mileage (improved from 27mpg to 29mpg hwy mileage) in the higher overdrive gears. The changes into the intake manifold (along with other changes) improved the low-end and the mid-range response tremendously (over the 99s) which enabled them to shoot out from the line rapidly, while maintaining very good mileage when cruising. It was almost as if the 99TL was a stop-gap measure from Acura, while they were developing the 5-speed transmission (also usable by a variety of other Acuras) which was not really complete, when the 99 TL went to the market.

    Also, the new Accord is a brand-new design thus have the side-curtain airbags/voice activated Navigation technology/Dual zone climate etc. The upcoming TL (based off of the global midsize platform from which the Accord/TL draws most of their mechanical components) would have every bit of that and much more. I wonder when that TL comes out, where would that leave the RL ?? Assuming that the RL remains the same without being redesigned? Technically, Acura could have introduced the new 2004 TL a couple of months before the Accord (since they share a platform) - like Toyota did with the ES300/Camry -but they did not and are introducing it a few months later with even more technology. Either way, little damage done. The rear camera is essentially a gimmick with a camera above the rear bumper connected to the Navigation screen...there is no "technology" involved there. The Hybrid technology is an "unusual technology" and not a "premium technology", used essentially to improve mileage, due to which it was rightly introduced in the low-end models, whose buyers are more demanding of mileage improvements than premium car buyers. But side-curtain airbags ? Voice activated Navigation ? Dual-zone climate controls ? High-tech 5-speed transmission ? Powerful high-tech engines ? Those are premium stuff and are rarely introduced in low-end models when the high-end models lack it.

    swsms:

    I think the new Acura sedans would be the Acura TSX (essentially a re-badged smaller/sportier European Honda Accord) and the new TL (based off of the new Honda Accord but with much better features/technology/power basically putting the new Accord in its place in the pecking order, below the TL). I really hope they also introduce a kick-azz new Acura RL too, thus quieting all its critics.

    Later...AH
  • swsmsswsms Member Posts: 62
    I stopped by an Acura dealer during lunch today and the salesman reluctantly informed me that the '04 RL will be out around March/April this year and that the nav will be standard on all RLs. He also said '03 production had ended so preparations are being made to produce the '04s. This was after he tried hard to convince me to buy one of the many '02 RLs still on their lot.

    When the '04 RL comes out, remaining '02 RLs may be available for a little over $30K. So if anyone is considering an '02, I would wait a few more months. Just my $.02.

    Hunter001, as a result, I think the second Acura sedan that will be unveiled at the NAIA show will be the '04 RL.

    We'll see next week!!
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    making navigation standard is ridiculous...I still know how to read a map, and would not pay $2000 just for some silly screen to guide my way...even as a male, I could stop and ask directions (altho how would I come down off my high horse and actually do that???...LOL)
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    naias.com is down. But so far, the only buzz concerning Acura is the TSX debut. Edmunds say the TL & RL are due for upgrades in 2004, which means they'll most likely be unveiled in the Fall of 2003. That also concurs with previous rumors that the TL will be unveiled in the Fall and not in the Spring.
  • jwilson1jwilson1 Member Posts: 956
    Honda often does the big releases in the Spring to catch interest when other companies aren't in the limelight. And they like their 'leaks' often dragging out and building "suspense" around a model release. They love us to keep wondering ...
    which I'm doing.

    JW
  • 488pinion488pinion Member Posts: 3
    I have a '00 RL with almost 30,000 miles on it. Will someone help me understand the following:

    OIL: The manual and literature I continually receive from American Honda Motor tell me to "insist on Acura Genuine oils and fluids." Specifically, they advise that the "correct" motor oil is Acura's "all season blend of highly refined mineral base oils combined with Acura's unique chemical additive package."

    At the three nearest dealerships I asked what oil they use. One uses Pennzoil w/ no additive, the second uses Kendall w/ no additive, and the third (75 minutes away) uses Acura w/ additive. The two service departments don't even stock the company brand. Although I personally believe that any name brand motor oil of the proper weight is perfectly acceptable, what's the story with the dealers?

    Does American Honda know dealers do this or do they not care? If this is the situation with motor oil, what about transmission fluid, brake fluid, etc.?

    GASOLINE: I park the RL in an attached garage. Often it will sit 3-5 days without being started. As I am not a high performance driver, I've tried 89 octane. When I start it after several days of non-use and 89 octane in the tank, it acts like I'm feeding it a mix of 50% water!! For the first minute it misses badly and the fumes of raw gas are pungent. When I'm running 92/93 octane this has never occurred after 3-5 days.

    I've tried this several times with 89 octane of different brands and I get the same result. It only occurs after the RL sits several days with 89 octane, and never with 92 or 93 octane. After the first minute following start up, both octanes perform very similarly. The temperature in the garage didn't vary significantly during these start-ups. I've come to the conclusion that the 89 octane gasoline sold around my neck of the woods is neutered to something much less than that!

    AIR CONDITIONING FILTER: I'd like to change the air conditioning filter (also known as the cabin filter). What's the procedure? In an effort to generate more income, the manual simply advises to have the dealer change it. I don't think so. A local parts house carries a premium cabin filter for this RL for $23.00.

    Can anyone enlighten me on any of these matters? Thanks.....
  • jwilson1jwilson1 Member Posts: 956
    Oil: You're right, there's no difference. Acura probably has a licensing agreement with some oil company that permits them to put another label on it, or maybe they do it for them. Kind of like changing labels on fad beers; there are companies that specialize in these things. You can save significant money by doing the oil changes yourself, if that's what you're interested in. The brand is no where near as significant as it is to change it according to a regular schedule.

    Gasoline: You will be much happier if you use 91 octane or higher. The ECU is resetting itself, most likely, to be able to handle the lower octance by adjusting the spark to compensate. While it's going through its program, your car acts like an old Plymouth. The car can handle regular gas, but your performance is reduced and the car isn't as happy. In my opinion (many disagree) this is an "pennywise, pound foolish" area to economize in -- you spent quite a bit of money to buy the car. If you spend a few cents more/gallon, over the course of the year you save maybe a hundred dollars or so. Figure it out.

    A/C filter: sorry, I can't help with that. But I'll bet you can pay the dealer to do it with what you save by changing your own oil a couple of times. Or you can buy a service manual, available on order via Barnes & Noble or probably online.

    Good luck
    JW
  • l943973l943973 Member Posts: 197
    How to access/replace your A/C filter

    Disclaimer:

    I will be held responsible if something goes wrong using my steps so I highly recommend getting service manual. (I didn't use the manual because I watched my dad do it, but its a lot easier with it).

    http://www.helminc.com

    Tools:
    Short Phillips Screwdriver (needed to remove the fabric in the glovebox)

    Items:
    2 A/C filters

    Steps:

    1. Move the passenger seat as far back as possible.

    2. Open the glove box and unscrew the 3 plastic screws that hold up the fabric in the glove box. Carefully pull back the fabric to get access behind it. The washers attached to the fabric are plastic and fragile. If you can reach around the back of the fabric, it may be easier to remove.

    3. Once the fabric is out of the way, you will see a cable. At the end of the cable is a latch with 2 levers poking at you. Squeeze the left lever and it should pop out the entire plastic square that is connected to the cable.

    4. There are 2 screws at the bottom of the glove box that need to be removed. If you lie on the floormat and look up under the glovebox, you'll see the 2 screws; one on the far left and far right. They act as the glovebox anchor.

    5. In the glove box on the sides are plastic anchors that hold the wheel used to help the glove box move in and out. The other sides of the anchor are clips. Squeeze the clips and pop out the wheel anchor. With one wheel popped out, you can remove the glove box panel. On the left you'll see a wire connection. Disconnect that to completely remove the glovebox panel. (The connection is for controlling the trunk release on the driver side door).

    6. Once the door is removed, you'll see a black panel. There are 3 screws to remove. Two are on each sides of the glovebox hindge. The third is a single screw by itself facing you if looking straight ahead and down.

    7. Once the 3 screws are removed, you'll need to pull off the cover. The black cover is held in place by 4 clips (2 on the far left and 2 on the far right hidden behind the cover) that fasten the black panel in place. I pull the bottom
    towards me first to get those clips off and then pull the top to pop off the top clips.

    8. Once the cover is removed you will see a white plastic panel that you can remove to get access to the filter.

    9. Once the white panel is removed, you can pull out the bracket. I believe if you press the "Fresh Air button", it makes it easier to get the bracket out. (It might be the Recirculate button, but not 100% sure). Just remember which way the bracket is facing so you remember how to put it back in.

    10. Once you get the bracket out, you can swap out the filter.

    11. With the bracket back in, push back the white cover.

    12. Line up the clips on the black cover and snap that back in. Put the 3 screws back that you took out.

    13. Line the left wheel into its slot and snap back the anchor for the right wheel after its in its slot. (I removed the right wheel earlier)

    14. Pull the cable as far as you can and hold it with your right thumb. Use your right index finger to locate the hole and use your left hand to insert the square cable clip back into that hole.

    15. Reconnect the trunk release.

    16. Clip the fabric back into place. Be careful, the washers are very fragile can can easily break (trust me. :-)). Once they are in place, use the 3 screws (removed earlier) to keep the fabric in place.

    17. Reconnect the 2 screws that anchor the glovebox door at the bottom.

    Where can I get filters for $23. My dealer sells them at $80 a piece.
  • hawk4160hawk4160 Member Posts: 5
    Just in case anyone would love a great deal on the few '03 RL's built, the dealers now get $3500 from the factory for each one they sell. This dealer incentive expires Feb 28th. Does this tell us something about the new '04 release date??

    Also, the '03 CL's have a $1000 dealer incentive which expires March 31st.

    Finally, if you have the really deep pockets and want an '02 NSX, a $7500 incentive will expire on March 31st also.
  • fredvhfredvh Member Posts: 857
    Are there any incentives on the 2003 TL?
  • 488pinion488pinion Member Posts: 3
    jwilson1: Thanks for the feedback on the oil and gas matters. I do change the motor oil myself, except when the dealer offers a $19.95 change w/ filter plus a free wash. What do you think about dealers not using the Acura labeled oil? Kind of "flies in the face" of American Honda's posturing!

    Reply to post #1100: I really appreciate your detailed instructions for the cabin filter change. That big dealer price is why I decided to do it myself. I'll bet the labor cost is wild! The filter is at Advance Auto Parts (Checker Auto Parts on the left coast). My local Advance sells a Puralator #C35425 for $21.99 and a Fram #CF8762 for $33.99. I think both are just one filter and, as you said, it takes two.
    Neither is carried in stock: they can get both in 1-2 days. I'm going to order the Puralator and see how many are in the carton....I'm betting just one, so I'll just order another.
    The Advance web site only lists the Fram filter.

    http://www.advanceautoparts.com

    Also, I believe Checker Auto Parts doesn't carry the Puralator brand.
  • l943973l943973 Member Posts: 197
    thanks for the filter info. My dad just couldn't understand how a paper filter should cost in the $50-80 range so he cut one out of a 3M Filtrete house filter and taped it to the filter bracket.

    It seems to work except it lets too much air through. We also tried a thicker 3M filter but it didn't let enough air through. I even went and tried a carbon house filter that I fitted in the filter bracket. It did remove outside odors coming into the car. For now, I'm using the Filtrete homebrew filter.

    I'll check out advance auto parts. There seems to be 5 stores near my area!
  • satiresatire Member Posts: 71
    First, I saw somewhere (can't remember where) that Honda was showing off a "concept" Accord coupe. It had a 300HP 3.2 V6. Now put that in my RL and I'll love you for days Honda. Perchance this is the engine of tomorrow's RL?

    Secondly, a friend of a friend just bought a 2002 RL (like me) and has found a serious problem. Apparently (and keep in mind I'm getting this info second hand) there's some sort of body problem in a select few RL's the rolled off the line. Said problem causes the car to make a lot of noise at speed. Big to-do when he took the car back to the dealer. Regional reps called in. "Major repairs" mentioned. Etc., Etc. I'm trying to get more details but has anyone else heard of this kind of problem? If so, details please.

    Relentlessly,
    Lee
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    My guess on 2004 RL engine:
    3.5 liter DOHC i-VTEC: 260 HP, 5-speed auto SportShift

    Chances are that we could see an RL Type-S with the same engine tweaked to 300 HP (given the 3.5 liter V6 DOHC i-VTEC in Acura DNX prototype was rated at 300 HP), possibly with VTM-4 (AWD).

    I wouldn't be surprised to see the 3.5/V6 mated to IMA for 350 HP or so in AWD format with 6-speed clutchless manual.

    Some of this is wishful thinking as I feel Acura needs to take these steps to help RL stand out from the crowd.
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