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You need to look at all these questions and more. It can't just be a financial decision because a new car is never a good financial decision. ;-)
Mike
So, if they use an IMA system, I'd guess the hp rating to be somewhere between 310-330.
You don't say what the car looks like .... if it's still 'like new' and you're not looking at anything that is remarkably different .... I'd stay with what I've got, unless you can make money on the individual sale of course!
As your customer, I'd be more impressed (and comfortable) riding to see a property in the RL than in a plain 'ol vanilla Honda -- Real estate seems to me to have alot of image stuff attached to it .... I'd go with aLexus or M-B personally, not because they're better cars but because they offer a status image customers might like and because you can write the car off.
What will you decide? JW
The new RL design probably won't happen until 05/06 because they are currently debuting the new completely redesigned 04 TL this fall and TSX. The RL and NSX are the last two models in need of a redesign. I guess they want to make sure they get it right.
Currently the RL has 3.5L 225 hp which is competitive with its other front wheel drive 6-cylinder competitors.
(FWD) Volvo S80 2.9L 194hp I-6
(FWD) Audi A6 2.8 3.0L 220 hp V-6
The reason why there is no VTEC in the RL is because the engine was design to provide power at the low rpms. VTEC is used to get more power at higher rpms usually around 3500 rpm and higher. VTEC has been around since late 1989. If Acura really wanted VTEC in the RL, they probably would have put it in by now.
The RL offers a lot, it just seems to get a bad rap all the time because it has no V8.
I agree that the RL is badly neglected, but I can't fault Acura for not updating it in the past two years. If the rumors about using a hybrid drive train are true, then waiting for it to be viable was probably a smart move.
For example, if they had redone the RL for 2003, it probably would have gotten the MDX's 260 hp engine with FWD and trim/design upgrades similar to everything else on the market. Then we'd have to wait for 2008 for the next redesign. By waiting a bit longer, Honda may be able to release a 2005 RL with a AWD high-performance hybrid system that will be unique and make a bigger splash.
Build a decent product now, or build a superior product a little later.
1943973 - Actually VTEC allows an engine to breathe better at both high and low rpms. Without variable valve technology an engine must pick between high or low rpm performance. Most select a middle ground. With VTEC (or similar systems), the engine can breathe comfortably at any rpm.
Thats why I don't think the old VTEC technology is in the RL.
From what I've read in the past, the 2005 RL
- 203 in in length (S-Class, A8L, 745Li size)
- 3.0L V6 at around 200 hp w/IMA at 100hp giving it a even 300 hp.
- (AWD) front driven by IMA, rear driven by gasoline like the DN-X
<http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/ae_news_story.php?id=38178>
The 3.0L iVTEC engine they mention is here
http://world.honda.com/news/2003/4030618_1.html
The technology will probably consists of:
http://world.honda.com/news/2003/4030618_2.html
Even the earliest versions of VTEC made use of two valve settings. Both are part of the VTEC system. Both improve performance. Both are equally important.
One setting is for high rpm performance. It allows the engine to breathe deeper and longer during each piston cycle. When people remark on VTEC "kicking in", what they mean is the valves have switched from the low rpm setting to the high rpm setting.
The other setting is for low rpm operation. At low rpms, the engine doesn't need to breathe like a marathon runner, shallow and quick breaths are all it takes. This prevents that fish out of water situation. One setting without the other, would be very bad.
Honda's early uses of VTEC were aimed at increasing the total output of the engine. So the low rpm settings were used to increase fuel economy, lower emissions, and keep the engine running smooth. That allowed the engine to build a modest amount of torque in the mid range. When that curve began to fall off, VTEC would engage the high rpms settings and carry that same torque into the higher rpms, where it generates more power. The aggressive valve settings are biased toward the high end since more power was the primary goal.
It didn't have to be that way. If Honda had preferred, they might have biased the engine toward the low end of the RPM band. The low end could have created large amounts of torque in the low range, then used slightly more aggressive valve settings in the mid range to prevent the engine from gasping at the top. This would not have created as much horsepower as the route described in the paragraph above. Such an engine would have been better suited for a towing vehicle or off-roader, not a sports car.
When Honda started building truck-like vehicles, they changed the bias of the VTEC. The MDX required more grunt off the line. So Honda adjusted the VTEC settings to provide more power through the low and mid ranges. It didn't matter that the torque curve tapered off in the high rpms. A high revving engine would have been inappropriate for an SUV.
One good example of this is the 2.4L K-series engine as found in the CR-V and the Accord. In the CR-V, it is biased for power at the low end. That engine makes 162 lb-ft at 3,600 rpms. In the Accord, the same block is biased for efficiency and does not need the same low end grunt. It makes about 161 lb-ft at 4,500 rpms. Both use the same i-VTEC system (just tuned differently) and make 160 horses. The TSX uses a third tuning of the same engine, which provides torque at the low end and power in the upper revs. The catch is a preferrance for premium fuel as well as lower overall fuel economy and emissions.
In the end, the engine uses either the high or low settings depending on which is the appropriate tool for the job. As cars run at both rpm ranges, both are necessary.
M
I only mentioned the M45 because its in the same price range as the RL. Its hard to compare an RL to other V8 models because they cost several thousands more. Add up the options on those cars and the price difference it even worst.
Even a BMW 530i will run you around 47k on average (thats not fully loaded either). I have two friends who paid around that much for their cars. The Mercedes E320 will probably be competitive to the 530 in pricing. An RL will be under 40k. Thats a pretty big price difference even for the V6 models!
I think the reason Honda doesn't just through things into their top model is because they are pretty slow about researching the market.
To me, just throwing the MDX engine into the RL would seem like a desperate move. The RL should have its own engine or something unique that makes it stand out from its competitors. I don't think a 260 hp 03 MDX engine would help because journalists would just complain that other brands have 300hp V8 and the RL is still underpowered.
I'm not so sure. How "free" it would be depends on where the engines are built in relation to where the car is assembled. I know that the MDX, Pilot, and Ody are all produced in Ontario and Alabammy. Dunno where they build the RL.
Also, while the MDX's version of the 3.5 is more powerful, the one used in the RL is considerably more refined. With just as much power in the low end, the only folks who would see the difference in performance are those who rev it up. That's not a common practice for lux car owners.
Max power is not the only criterion in this segment.
The RL has been quietly selling at a steady pace (not well, but okay). If they added an all-new engine, it would just call (unwanted) attention to the fact that Acura hasn't really fixed anything. I can see the headlines now, "Acura's flagship engine sinks".
Since they have not made significant changes, they are probably have a huge profit margin on the old design. That money can get turned around and plugged into a worthwhile redesign.
(Photo from the Honda News Media)
(Photo from the Honda News Media)
It will be more conservative than the TL concept. My best guess is that it will look similar to the Audi A8L with Acura highlights.
(From Edmunds)
M
Over the past few years, besides reading Honda interviews with their executives, I spend time gathering information on
http://www.autonews.com
http://www.autoweek.com
http://www.hondanews.com
http://www.cardesignnews.com
http://world.honda.com/worldnews
At home I read Road and Track, Car and Driver, Automobile Magazine, Evo, and Motor Trend. I've been fascinated with Honda cars since I first got a ride in a Honda Prelude back in 1981. Didn't get my first Honda Accord until 1986. Since then, I've moved to Integra Special Edition, and now have Acura RL and Acura NSX. Looking forward to purchasing their DN-X when it comes out as the DNX. (It seems to follow their NS-X prototype pattern back in 1990 later becoming the NSX).
I spend a lot of time looking at designs from other manufacturers comparing the similarities and differences of each design. There is enough information out there that you can kind of piece things together.
Over time you get an idea on what information is real and what sounds bogus.
818 Acura 3.5RL Master Cylinder Recall
Although the VIN numbers are not given I know the VIN numbers are those numbers ending in 00013 thru 1000.
The dealers got the recall as of July 18,2003
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/
M
To Acura to adapt it to the RL and produce per each car. $500
How you say do I come up with these consider that Acura will actually be saving a little money with standardizing with other models. Then consider that they are ordering for every model a 5 speed auto except the NSX, which is incredibly low volume.
As for the rest... I agree that the RL has been neglected. But I'm not sure tweaks would have made a big difference.
Redesigning the RL in 2001 or 2002 would have certainly helped sales. The vehicle would have been competitive with some of the others in it's class. However, it would not have leap ahead. With 260 horses and a 5 speed tranny, this revised RL would still be 30-70 horsepower short of the others. Why bother? That lukewarm design would have lasted through 2007 or 2008.
By holding off a few years, Acura now has the technical potential to blow the doors off the market, not merely be competitive. If Acura comes back with a 400 hp hybrid AWD vehicle, will it have been worth the wait?
If sales had gotten a boost and Acura made a little more for the car that would actually mean the car would have lasted till the same year or 2006. That would mean that there would be more money and more of a name to build off of the next time around. Mercedes put this much interest into the CLK because it succeeded.
Competitive against who? Think about it LS430 time 0-60 is what 6.5 or so by most tests. Acura RL is around flat 8. A 5 speed gives maybe .4 off on most cars and those figures should give maybe a 6.8-7.2 o-60 that is BMW 530i to Mercedes E320 time respectively. After that the RL's number of features and build take over at that price. Meatier rubber are not that expensive for the company. Maybe $50. With that 1000 less in incentives you can do that the engine, trans., and rubber easily. Curtains would have been nice but that would have gotten costly.
I really do not believe Acura will introduce that hybrid yet. Atleast not until 2007. A hybrid name makes some shakey and especially in that price range. 400hp? AWD sorry, but now that is what pushes a car to 60k. Not 1 more gear in the transmission and 35 more horsepower.
On the hybrid front, we have an RL with a similar drivetrain to the DN-X concept vehicle shown a while back. That concept was supposed to produce 400 horsies with about 300 going from the V6 engine to the front wheels. The other 100 were from two electric motors rigged up to the rear wheels. A similar (less powerful) version has been shown in the RD-X concept. I doubt very much the RL will get the 400 horses from the DN-X, but 300-330 is certainly possible. A 3.5L V6 making 250-270 horses up front with another 50-60 in electric power is not at all unreasonable. The most recent rumor on this option was printed in MotorTrend as part of an article focused on the DN-X (2007).
The other rumor is based on a sighting of the next RL being tested on a track. The claim is for an AWD RL making 300 horses with the same 3.5L of displacement. I don't recall the rumor stating how AWD was accomplished (VTM-4?). Nor did it explain how they were able to determine displacement and power from a sighting. I assume they have contacts in engineering.
I figure either of these is possible. The RL doesn't need to take on the V8 competition head to head. The bulk of sales are for the 6 cylinder models. The V8s are just there to act as halo cars and make companies look good when the magazines ask for a test car. Either of the two rumored drivetrains could do well against the other sixes.
Personally, I favor the hybrid option. Honda/Acura has been touting these configuration for quite a while. They rarely design concepts that are not intended for production in some shape or form. Also, a hybrid would cause the biggest splash. Acura needs a big splash for this car.
My understanding from speaking with an Internet Sales Manager at the Acura Dealership is that the front end will resemble the Caddy STS. Not too thrilled about that. I love curves the current body style has. The Boxy look would not do it too much justice.
My understanding is that there were some concept photos floating around on the net 'bout 4 or 5 months ago but have since then, disappeared. Has anyone seen, from a credible source, what this vehicle might look like?
I will say this, I am aggressively in the market for a new vehicle but don't want to regret buying the current RL and then find myself liking the new even more therefore extending payments if I trade one in for the other.
I have a '93 10th Anniversary Honda Accord that has 238,700 miles and I'm not trading it in as it's been wonderful to me... I'm trying to stick with Honda/Acura quality but there's not too much to choose from. Any ideas?
Does anyone have any pictures of the 2005 RL Concept?
At this time, Acura probably has not decided on the sheetmetal. If they decided on the design this early in the game, it would look old before hitting the showroom floor. Given that the TL seems to have advanced the styling of the TSX, I think we can expect to see the same design themes played out in the new RL.
First of all, I have a 99' RL Pearl White and it's been with me since day one over 4 years now. I purchased the extended warranty when I got the car new and now I found out the passager side headlight is not as bright/blue bright as the other. I am not sure if this means I need to get a pair of new bulbs like Philips D2R 6000K or I can go in and let dealer take care of that.
The second question is that I got a 2003 CLK430 Convertible, black/black with AMG wood trims and AMG chrome wheels. It was so hard to get one I had no choice but took one without the K4 package, which means there is no heated front seats and no HID. I can live without the heated seats, but I really want to have the HID headlights on it. So my question is what type of the bulbs I should get and how can I learn to install them myself...Are they just as easy as changing a bulb at home? simply take the old ones off and swap with new ones?
I am a dummy when talking about working on cars... So I really need help.. Please advise...
PS. I got a ticket on my way back from San Diego for my front window tinted. I went to the local glass tinting store and had it removed this morning. (front only) It actually did not look too bad with the rear windows and back windshield of 15% tinted. I thought pre-paid to put the front back with 20% after I get the ticket corrected. but now I wonder if I should put it back on...
John
Acura 3.5 RL - 1999
Pearl White
Sherman Oaks - Los Angeles, CA
Which could also mean they just photo-chopped a pic of the TL concept.
I doubt very much that the designers even know what the final sheetmetal will look like. So I expect photo-chop is the correct explanation.
Thanks for sharing! I don't mean to be ungrateful, or anything.
In addition, the '05 RL has already been seen running tests in Tokyo. Unfortunately, I have not seen any pics yet.
Just my 2 cents.
I've also read the the RL has been seen in testing, but it was my impression that it was just driveline testing. That can be accomplished using a hand-built test mule with no relation to the finished product, or with some other car.
Getting the CLK HID lights at this stage of the game may be impossible. It may require much more than just a bulb change. There are different electronics required for the high intensity lamps, and you still wouldn't have the auto level mechanism.
That said, I just today got in the mail a brochure.."be one of the first to own and 04 RL". Seems like the only real change is that it now has satellite radio. I'm not getting close to another Acura product until they get serious and drop a V8 in something.
Most of discussion has been on the '05 RL. The '04 RL was released earlier this year(April, I think) with only interior enhancements. It has already been confirmed that the '05 RL will be AWD drive and will have 300hp. We'll get our first 'un-masked' look at the '05 RL at the Tokyo Auto Show in mid October.