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Acura RL

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Comments

  • prophet2prophet2 Member Posts: 372
    You have expressed my sentiments exactly. I have had at least one Acura in my garage ever since the line debuted in 1986.

    I have been asked many times by well-meaning friends and clients as to when I'll be "moving up" to an Benz, BMW, Porsche, etc. My replies have always been:

    1) I had a Porsche and BMW during my 20s and 30s, THEN I GREW UP;

    2) When I show up with a Benz, my clients may well think, "Damned that Karl! He's driving OUR money!"

    OTOH, I have heard compliments on my choices of fiscally-prudent well-built cars that allegedly demonstrate my "common sense."

    When the Legend coupe first hit the scene, one of the car mags ran a comparison of it with BMW, Mercedes, and Cadillac. The Mercedes managed to tie the Legend only because the editors invented a new category, CACHET, for the article. I don't recall ever seeing this "quality" used again in their comparison tests.

    BTW, my BMW crashed and was in the body shop for 5-1/2 months - lack of parts (fender, grill, hood, bumper, etc.). My letters to the US distributor headquarters in NJ were unanswered and unacknowledged.
  • jeff88jeff88 Member Posts: 94
    "Well, the Legend was never a truly sporty car. That car offered respectable performance, but body roll and the lack of a V8 stopped it from being the real deal."

    Think maybe Varmint wrote that one. Have to disagree a bit with that. Thing is, at the time of the Legend, there were darned few v8's out there at all. Guess I don't think back then it was for a lack of a v8. The LS debuted at the end of the Legend's run an it along with the S-class and 7 were the only foreign v8's I can think of. There were a ton of cars with 6's, some 5's and even 4's in the swede's cars. Most US cars were 6's too. As for the Legend's handling, back in it's day, it was pretty darn taut. have to say though, in '89 I ended up getting down to 2 cars and picked the Maxima SE with 5sp over the Legend based on the price/performance metrics of the time. (there was about a $5k delta favoring the SE and in it's day, that original SE suspension was mighty fine. The engine was no slouch and having all that plus a Bose for about 16K was not at all a bad deal.) both the SE and legend beat out all comers from volvo, audi, bmw and saab that I compared them to.

    Octane for the RL: kind of late to be chiming in on this one but my old '96 rl ran better in all respects with 93 over 87 including acceleration and mileage. (Never did try '89.) Also noticed was the smoothness of the shifting. Someone mentioned about the retardation of the spark plug when using lower octane. Agreed. Further, it's actually the retardation of the plug that allows for smother shifts between gears and if one messes with the timing of the retardation, it may have an affect on the shifter smoothness. That is what I noticed and surmised with my rl.

    My 2 cents for why we buy: Simply put, would say the rl buyer is probably a better listener than talker; less concerned with perception and more concerned with distinction; reflective rather than reflexive; and sits in the back of the room to observe rather than the front to be seen.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    "The LS debuted at the end of the Legend's run"

    Actually, LS debuted sometime in the late 80s (1989?), and Q45 too. Legend continued thru 1995 before handing over the baton to 3.5RL.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    See my comments over on the Audi TH 2005, bla bla bla. Still waiting for the Acura to make a subjective comparo.

    And, for those who have been, with good reason, dissing the Audi due to its reliability ratings, check out the latest stuff pertaining to Audi.

    Its all good.
  • legendmanlegendman Member Posts: 362
    >for those who have been, with good reason, dissing the Audi due to its reliability ratings, check out the latest stuff pertaining to Audi<

    Check it out where Mark? Did you (or others) post on this here on the RL board or the Audi board? Is there a web URL or a post number that you can share?

    Thanks in advance.

    Also: What can you tell us about the seat in the Audi? Is it tightly bolstered or can a 200 lb. man fit with reasonable comfort in it?
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    Hi Jeff,

    Yep, that was me earlier. It's probably true that the V8s were a bit less common than they are now, but that's because there were fewer luxury cars at the time. Cadillac had a 4.5 and a 5.0. MB had a 4.2, a 5.0, and a 5.6 on the market. Lincoln fitted a 5.0 V8 into half their cars. BMW was pretty skimpy on the big engines. Most were fitted with a V6, but they did offer a V12 around 1990.

    Anyway, I don't think that the V6 in the Legend, while competent, was enough to lay claim to being sporty.

    As for handling, the Legend held it's own. It was undoubtedly better than the current RL. But I've read several reviews of early models, which remark on problems with body roll. I was too young to have first-hand experience with the early Legends, but my readings lead me to believe that the car looked sporty (especially the coupe), but did not stand out for its performance.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    Sorry -- here are the quotes (I am not expecting anyone's mind to be changed by these, but as an "Audi Fan," myself, I found this, encouraging at least.) Also, this in no way dampens my enthusiasm to look at the new Acura RL:

    =====
    AUBURN HILLS &#150; In the latest J.D. Power and Associates 2004 Customer Service Index (CSI) StudySM, Audi ranked as the leading German luxury car manufacturer.

    Audi was tied for the largest index score improvement and was recognized for improved ratings for both maintenance and repair customers, particularly in the consideration of a customer&#146;s time, the amount of time waiting to speak to a service advisor and the time it took to get the vehicle after service.

    The study measures customer satisfaction among new-vehicle owners with the dealer service department during the first three years of vehicle ownership. This typically represents the majority of the vehicle warranty period. Overall satisfaction is based on six service categories: initiating service, service advisor, in-dealership experience, service delivery, service quality, and user-friendly service.

    The 2004 CSI Study is based on responses from more than 97,000 new-vehicle owners and lessees.

    =====
    AUBURN HILLS &#150; In its fourth annual ranking of the 100 most valuable global brands, Business Week and Interbrand named Audi to its prestigious list. This is Audi&#146;s first appearance on the list.

    "Clear and consistent branding have moved Audi to become a leading luxury auto brand, also in the increasingly important Chinese market. This completes their global footprint," commented Jan Lindemann, Global Managing Director of Brand Valuation for Interbrand.

    A dollar value is calculated for each brand using a mix of publicly available data, projected profits, and variables like market leadership. The article along with the Global Brand Scorecard appears in the August 2 issue of Business Week.
  • jrock65jrock65 Member Posts: 1,371
    1. How much will the M45 cost?

    No one knows for sure, but I expect a similarly equipped M35 AWD to MSRP for about the same as the RL. The M45 will probably be about $2000 more expensive, similarly equipped (without AWD).

    2. When will it hit the showrooms for sale?

    Expected March 2005.

    3. How's the horsepower and handling?

    340hp for the M45, 280+ for the M35 (probably more). Not many pre-production tests, but one review said that that the M is a much more solid handling car than the G35, and the G is no slouch.

    4. How is Infiniti's reliability - lately?

    Second only to Lexus, according to surveys.

    5. Resale value -- still less than Acura?

    The G and the FX have one of the best resale values in their class.

    6. Any chance that they will tone down the "Jetson's" style dashboard control panel?

    IMO, no.

    7. Is this a worthy "adversary" of the RL, handling and performance wise, or is this car a plush ride in a svelte suit?

    Remains to be seen, but IMO, it will give the RL a run for its money, especially if equipped with the active rear suspension (Sport models.)
  • legendmanlegendman Member Posts: 362
    Just spend a good half hour looking at the new Infiniti M35 (V6 AWD). Wow! The styling, the colors, the interior -- all are superlative. Ventilated seats - yay! The leather and the wood trim are elegant indeed.

    I have to say that I love the looks, I love the features, and can't wait to test drive it. Assuming it has seats in the non-sport version that a big guy can sit in, this could be goodbye to Acura and hello to Infiniti!
  • oman9oman9 Member Posts: 97
    Wow, coming from someone named Legendman that's big news! Glad to hear the new M car strikes you this positively. Looking forward to hearing your review once you've test driven the vehicle.

    I've had Infiniti/Nissan cars since '88 and have always enjoyed great reliability. I have a 98 I30t with 120K miles and it's been flawless...still drives/looks new so I'm not in the immediate market for a new car. I'm looking forward to stepping up the "fun" factor some while keeping the same high level of reliability and have my eyes on the new M car as well as the new RL from Acura.

    I have to say with all the years of great service from my Nissan cars I do slant towards staying with that family...funny how that happens and that's what the companies count on. The RL does appeal as do Lexus products. Guess I'm a fan of Japanese vs. German/Euro as reliability is more important to me than fun but seems like the fun is getting more and more into the Japanese cars....

    Will look for your road test review, thanks!
  • legendmanlegendman Member Posts: 362
    Oman (and others):

    What has been your experience as regards negotiating your actual purchase price with Infiniti cars? Did you find the dealer willing (or eager) to give discounts and if so, how much?

    Any sense of what we might expect to see (discount wise) in March 2005 when the new M hits the showroom, and, a bit later in April or May 2005?
  • oman9oman9 Member Posts: 97
    I can tell you about my one Infiniti purchase back when I purchased my 1998. I had no trade in, was coming in with cash. I got my black on black which was in inventory (I wasn't as picky with this purchase in terms of equipment as I will be with the next...besides I don't think there was a whole lot to choose from once I decided I wanted a touring model and they added the CD changer in the trunk and chrome wheel plating which they did after I made the purchase, some process that has held up well).

    Basically I stopped in one late afternoon and after a few minutes of the salesman trying to be a salesman (nice guy, just trying to do his job I guess) I asked for the sales manager. I walked into his office (this sales manager still works here as the manager 7 years later although the dealership is under new ownership) and within 3 minutes we agreed upon $800 over invoice since I was getting an appealing black on black combo.

    I was pleased with the speed and forthrightness of this manager. I talk to him every so often when I'm getting my car serviced.

    This dealership has undergone several changes including the ownership change and the G35. The G35 changed the dynamics of the dealership because their customer base doubled overnite and service slipped along with not being as customer friendly as the original ownership team.

    Long reply to a question you may not have been asking re: my experience...but I think your answer comes down to 1) How popular the M car will be and 2) How friendly/straight shooting the individuals you will find at your local Infiniti dealers. Also I would hope that if I went to my guy, same sales manager I used in '97, I have a relationship with him I could leverage.

    How much would I save over the guy coming in off the street? Probably in the hundreds, not too much but I guess it all counts. My guy knows I've taken my car to his dealership for every single maintenance, very regular schedules...don't miss a maintenance. This translates into good business for them over the long haul.

    If this M car is anything like some of the reports I've read here that it handles better than the G and looks as good as you say it does Legendman, then I expect dealing might be tough initially.

    Last point re: negotiating. See, for me I set a number based on dealer invoice. I understand they also make money on the reserve and can make more depending on volume #s per month etc. So they are actually making 2 to 3 points more than just the amount over their invoice. Once I know my number there won't be any dealing from my end, that's why my Infiniti purchase took about 3 minutes. I wasn't going to play games with the salesman. The manager knew I was about to leave unless he showed up, knew I was there to buy a car and not "just looking", knew I was fair, I knew he was fair and we figured it out quickly.
  • lsim88lsim88 Member Posts: 1
    In addition the steering tilt toggle not working, the steering wheel does not go to the memory position like it used to when I turned on the ignition. It now only stays at the "original" position when the iginition is off.

    Does that mean more than a tilt toggle problem?
  • l943973l943973 Member Posts: 197
    << How much will the M45 cost? >>

    If you dig deep enough on the Infiniti site, you'll see that a comparably equipped M45

    Base V6 AWD = $45,400.
    Journey Package = $2750
    Tech Package (requires Journey Pkg) = $4000

    (The M45 includes climate control front seats, Intelligent Cruise Control, Lane Departure Warning that the RL probably won't have).

    Total M45 price: $52,150
  • jrock65jrock65 Member Posts: 1,371
    That is the M35 AWD.

    Also, those prices are just "feelers" to gauge public reaction.

    Won't the RL have Intellicruise and Climate seats as well?
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    Not sure about Climate Control seats, but Intelligent Cruise control was part of the concept. Acura could offer more than they showcased in the production RL. I'm hoping for CMS/e-Pretensioner system, if not LKAS (Honda's version of Lane Keep Assist offered in Japanese Accord and Inspire).
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I just read that all '05 MB S-Class models will come standard with 4-MATIC (AWD).

    Bob
  • ksomanksoman Member Posts: 683
    Back at the NY Auto show, I actually liked the M far better in real life compared to the RL, looks to looks comparo... but in the video it looks kinda stupid to me. That video really turned me off completely on the M.... ugh. I hate myself now. I'm a bad nut...

    ksso
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,142
    We've got an M35/M45 discussion, so let's keep the conversation about that vehicle in the appropriate topic. Thanks!

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  • gold233790gold233790 Member Posts: 183
    Didn't see it here (granted, didn't read through 96 pages!), but is the new RL scheduled to have bluetooth capability?
  • talon95talon95 Member Posts: 1,110
    The prototype has it, so presumably the production model will as well.
  • ksomanksoman Member Posts: 683
    I kept my comment relevant to the RL, it was a comparison of the M against the RL... :)
  • prophet2prophet2 Member Posts: 372
    .... a real-life comparison is more realistic and accurate than video images. Unless the videos reveal angles we can't get with our eyes.

    I didn't care for the first Infiniti M45 based on the photos and liked it even less in-person. Let's hope they get it right this time.

    OTOH, the 2005 RL is much more to my liking in both exterior and interior styling, as well as the mechanical improvements. And I like my '96 model, as bland as most people believe.
  • ksomanksoman Member Posts: 683
    i think the going out body style had immense statesque beauty in its blandness...

    considering i'm in the minority of people who do like the old 5 series but also like the new 5 series and then also like the old and the new bmw 7 series, it may sound like a moronic expression...

    ksso
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    I don&#146;t think there was a problem with the 3.5RL (other than that its orientation was a departure from the Legend), and it was doing reasonably well until… it reached a point when competition moved one with &#147;next generation&#148;, and the RL continued its march with minor tweaks. By the time the new RL comes out, the &#147;3.5RL&#148; would have stayed in the market for 9 years!
  • shotgunshotgun Member Posts: 184
    Legendman, I too just spent a good 40 minutes examining every angle (on-line) of the new M35/45. My conclusion, subjective as it may be...The M45 butt is, well, butt-*ss ugly! Frankly it's oversized and grossly exaggerated - it appears as if the tailight assembly was thrown together for no reason other than to be different, and it's not working! Overall the car appears to be "overweight" - it has this "chubby" appearance about it. The side panels and B-Pillar are uninspiring and the car's roof line looks too tall - placing it out of sync with the rest of the body proportions. The interior almost borders on the grotesque, it's busy and ostentatious - has absolutely no refinement. In a nutshell, the M45, to me, lacks elegance. Did you notice the excessive amount of sheet metal beneath the grill and headlights - that alone throws off the front end and completely voids a relatively nice looking grill/headlight assembly. I'm actually surprised that Infiniti would come out with such a dog - A comparatively equipped (to the 05' RL) M35 comes in at $52k+ - way too much to compete with a technologically superior RL. Don't get me wrong, I think the Infiniti G35 and FX are a tour de force in cutting edge design and performance execution (I own an FX35) but they dropped the ball on the new (concept) M35/45.
  • shotgunshotgun Member Posts: 184
    Yeh, I always tought that the styling of the 99 - 04 RL looked exceptionally clean and elegant. It may not have been a performance monster but it delivered the goods when it came to value, style, and reliability.
  • founderfounder Member Posts: 48
    Acura had it's chance to dominate the market, but they dropped the Legend, and introduced a ton of bland cars. After the Legend was discontinued I lost all interest in Acura. Nothing has come out of that car company that makes me even think about their name. The new TL sparked my interst, but it's a little to small. The new RL looks interesting, but it looks to much like a larger Accord. The rear looks awful, but maybe it'll grow on me. I'm in the market for a new car, and I'm torn between the new M class at Infiniti and quite possiably the New RL. I'll check it out when it hits show rooms.
  • talon95talon95 Member Posts: 1,110
    Your post reflects my sentiments about the M45 concept almost exactly. Ugly "designed by Astro Boy" taillights, equally ugly grille, an underwhelming profile and ungainly proportions are some of my issues with the exterior. And with the interior, I hardly know where to begin... grotesque is a good start, and I would add tragically overstyled and garish as well. Someone should give those designers a clue that with accent materials such as brushed metal or wood, way too much is NOT a good thing. I'm sure that some day Ren-Nissan and Infiniti will design an attractive and tasteful interior with high quality materials... the question is, will it be in my lifetime?

    Your conclusion sums it up perfectly... the car lacks elegance. If the rumors that the Q45 will be discontinued and the M45 will replace it as the flagship of the Infiniti line hold true, I doubt that it's going to make much additional headway against the German luxury juggernauts in its current form.

    Admittedly, the new RL is hardly perfect. While the styling is more aggressive than the stolid design of the current generation (doesn't take much to do that...), it's still less than inspiring. I find it modestly attractive, but a bit more of the soul of the TL design would have been welcome. And while the interior is fairly elegant, it has a few warts... the center controls seem poorly integrated into the dash, and the wood trim on the dash is excessive and lacks subtlety. But regardless, I find that the new RL projects far more elegance than the M45. Just my opinion...
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    "Acura had it's chance to dominate the market, but they dropped the Legend, and introduced a ton of bland cars. After the Legend was discontinued I lost all interest in Acura. Nothing has come out of that car company that makes me even think about their name."

    Yeah, I know what you mean. The Vigor was an "okay" car, but not a real market leader. The TL that replaced it was nothing special. The Integra was a great little sport coupe, but it didn't really fit in with the image of a luxury car maker. The RL was a competent vehicle, but it did not march to the same drummer as the rest of the industry.

    But I think that Acura started to make its comeback with the 1999 TL. Most didn't take it seriously that first year, but in 2000 it began to make waves. I bought one in 2001. With the addition of the Type S model, that car took off. That was about the same time that they added the MDX. That vehicle was a huge success.

    So, while I can completely understand that the Acura line may not have anything for you personally, I think it did find new life around the year 2000.
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    Talon just summed it up nicely for me.

    I think the RL may be a little too conservative, but it still has decent proportions. There's nothing offensive about the design. It has the same low key appeal as the last generation TL.

    The M35/45 wears too much make-up. It has good, balanced proportions, but there are no lines in the sheetmetal to give the shape emphasis. It's kinf of a shapely ameoba. That fact by itself is no biggie, but then they tacked on those taillights in the back and an angry grill up front. The contrast is too much.

    Great body. Offensive details.

    I'll have to see them in person to make up my mind, but, based on the pics, I'd say the styling of the RL is going to last longer.
  • jwilson1jwilson1 Member Posts: 956
    I just turned in my nearly perfect 02 -- somebody's gonna get a good deal listing for around $26k. (Dealer has lots of room to play because the purchase value for me was at $22900.)

    JW
  • shotgunshotgun Member Posts: 184
    "...It's kind of a shapely ameoba..." Hahahahah...I love it Varmint - You know, you're actually being too kind! I agree with your assessment concerning the conservativeness of the new RL. However, I have no problem with that because in a sense, its a new type of conservatism - I'd like to call it "Conservalicious", most befitting a performance oriented luxury vehicle. Being in my fifties I don't want anything too radical looking but also not too sedate. I think, with the right color combination, proper wheel, tire size, and realized promise of expectant performance...the new RL will rock!!!
  • jrock65jrock65 Member Posts: 1,371
    Generally, Infiniti/Nissan styles are more polarizing. You either love it, or hate it. Based on the reaction from other forums (Nissan specific, non-Nissan specific, cars in general) the 2006 M has received many more "love it" comments than "hate it" comments.

    Honda/Acura styling is inoffensive and conservative, but not something that evokes any strong emotion. That has been the reponse to the 2005 RL, as well.
  • oman9oman9 Member Posts: 97
    Went to see what I could find about the 2005RL. The word is it's going to the track (I think the dealership is getting a car to use on a track to see it for themselves) on September 1. Should be in the showrooms by end of September.

    So while I was there I looked at the 2004RL. Sat in the car, very nice. Right next to it was a TL. You know, interior room (certainly back seat room) was the same or at least very similar.

    The RL is longer, wider on the outside but I didn't sense the TL gave up much on the interior. Gas mileage is of course better on the TL, 30 Highway vs. 27 I believe for the RL. City numbers also better.

    Price difference on the sticker was $13K although the RL had a nav in it and the TL didn't, so that accounts for some of the difference.

    I came away thinking why was the RL so much more. I asked the salesman, he said is was mostly a demographics issue as to why someone would go for the RL vs. the TL. The salesman was young, would be surprised if he was 30. He thought the TL was the much better value. I have to say the styling of the TL, more sporty, was more appealing to me. He could not substantively answer why the RL would cost so much more except that it appealed to the "50+" crowd as it's bigger.

    If I was choosing today between the 2004RL and TL, TL is a slam dunk for me.

    I didn't spend much time trying to reconcile the price difference, anyone care to share some thoughts?
  • cericceric Member Posts: 1,092
    Did he tell you that you could get a huge discount on RLs, but not TLs (especially ones with NAVI)? The difference of $13K you mentioned would shrink very quickly. I know people who got RL for less than $37K. That is just a couple thousands more than loaded TLs.

    By the way, my salesman is getting trained (Ride & Drive) on new RLs around Sep 18th & 19th. He estimated that RLs would be in showroom in mid-October. He told me there are 10 people on waiting list (on which I am #1). He called me for my choices of colors because they needed to put in initial orders.

    This is a SF Bay Area large Acura dealer. Acura is targeting 1000 units per month (12,000 per year). Considering their 250 dealership around the country, that is about 4 unit sales per dealership per month. Well, there goes your two-month+ initial supply of RLs in your neighborhood. Just my rough calculation.
  • legendmanlegendman Member Posts: 362
    It's certainly good to have a spirited discussion here on the board. Lord knows it's been kinda sleepy around here.

    I guess auto body design is a little bit like ice cream. Some like vanilla, some like chocolate, and a few like strawberry. And some don't like ice cream at all. In other words, it's highly subjective.

    I think that that the new M is a good looking car. Admittedly the front end is a tad overdone, but it's certainly a big improvement from the prior model year and is certainly no more offensive, in my mind, than the Camry-esque front end of the new RL. At least it is bold and has character. If it offends your senses it does so by its boldness, rather than Acura's wimpy, let's-morph-it-so-as-not-to-offend design. And the new M's tail and it's tailights look g-r-e-a-t to me. Good grief -- surely, no one here can honestly argue that they think that the new RL tail is attractive or inspirational! Well, can you?

    I love the back end and I love the side profile of the new M. On the contrary boys, I do think that the 2006 M is indeed elegant.

    I agree that the new M interior is a little gaudy, but if you look at the woodgrained interior version, and not the sport interior with the brushed aluminum, I think that it is certainly more elegant than the cheap interior styling we have seen pictured in the 2005 RL prototype. The wood grained M interior appears to me as much closer to the Lexus interior -- in particular the LS430. Not item for item mind you; just the overall feel of inviting luxury that it evokes.

    I am in agreement with all of you who say that we must actually see the car(s) in person to make a final decision. I just wish that the new 2006 Infiniti M and the new 2006 Lexus GS were coming out this October, rather than in March of 2005.
  • talon95talon95 Member Posts: 1,110
    "Being in my fifties I don't want anything too radical looking but also not too sedate."

    And I think Acura has the right styling approach for that class of car. They've shown that they can break out of the conservative styling mold with the TL, and aggressive styling is both expected and accepted in that class. Less aggressive styling is the right approach for luxury sedans in the RL's class and above.

    The M45 is attempting to appeal to the same crowd that loves the G35. Apparently it's been somewhat successful at doing so, assuming reports of the "love its" on Edmunds are accurate. However, the market for the M45 and the G35 is markedly different, and I have serious doubts that the M45's inelegant exterior and overwrought interior will appeal to the people who are actually in the market for a car in its class.

    I guess time will tell...
  • catlovercatlover Member Posts: 3
    Hi,

    I guess I'm a grandmotherly type too these days -- I've got grands in elementary school anyway! YES, the RL is a great choice for someone like that. I bought one of those '03s just recently. I also drive an Integra :-) that I just won't give up until IT gives up on me. But the RL is a very nice car for longer trips or for taking MY mom, who is in her 80s now, around the town. I'm obviously an Acura fan. I really TRIED to love a Toyota, but nothing that I drove really overshadowed the Acuras. I see lots of folks have problems with Acura dealership attitude; I wasn't super-impressed with the new car crew where I get my Integra serviced, but I like the service staff there, and I bought the RL at an Audi dealership that was very good to work with.
  • talon95talon95 Member Posts: 1,110
    "And the new M's tail and it's tailights look g-r-e-a-t to me. Good grief -- surely, no one here can honestly argue that they think that the new RL tail is attractive or inspirational! Well, can you?"

    In fact, I can... perhaps not inspirational, but not unattractive to my eye. Like the rest of the car, I find that while the RL's rear styling is non-adventurous, it's simple, elegant and in tune with the styling of the rest of the car. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

    As for the M45's rear, what you call bold, I call overstyled and tacky. There's a fine line between boldness and tastelessness, and the M's taillights have crossed that line big time, IMO. Not every car on the road has to blow you away with its overabundance of attitude, regardless of what Nissan and Infiniti would like you to think.

    "I agree that the new M interior is a little gaudy, but if you look at the woodgrained interior version, and not the sport interior with the brushed aluminum, I think that it is certainly more elegant than the cheap interior styling we have seen pictured in the 2005 RL prototype."

    While the RL's interior has a few flaws, I'd hardly classify it as cheap.

    "The wood grained M interior appears to me as much closer to the Lexus interior -- in particular the LS430."

    As I said in an earlier post, someone needs to remind Infiniti's interior stylists that brushed metal and wood are best used as accent materials, and that too much is just that, too much. IMO, the wood trimmed interior is just as tacky and garish as the brushed metal trim version. Unless you prefer your interior to evoke memories of the sides of a 1978 Country Squire. Way, way, way too much wood, just like the other has way, way, way too much brushed aluminum.

    Again, just my opinion...
  • jrock65jrock65 Member Posts: 1,371
    "Apparently it's been somewhat successful at doing so, assuming reports of the "love its" on Edmunds are accurate."

    The reports of "love its" are actually more from other car forums. Same for "hate its" as well. Not many posts on the M on Edmunds in general.

    "However, the market for the M45 and the G35 is markedly different, and I have serious doubts that the M45's inelegant exterior and overwrought interior will appeal to the people who are actually in the market for a car in its class."

    On the other hand, the RL may be too mundane and indistinct for this class. This class isn't as conservative as the LS/7/S/A8 class, as people in the GS/5/E/A6 class are looking for a bit more pizzaz and sport. Only time will tell!

    "Acura is targeting 1000 units per month (12,000 per year)."

    That seems quite a low target. I guess it makes sense, since then they could say, "Look! We exceeded our expectations!" I don't think they'll have any trouble reaching 1000 per month.
  • oman9oman9 Member Posts: 97
    Ceric is correct, you can deal on a 2004 RL at this point. I made reference to that to the salesman and he nodded in agreement. I guess my perspective is before they were dealing on 2004 RLs to make room for the new 2005 coming in. Have they been dealing on 2004 RLs say a year ago? Just surpised at the difference in the sticker price of both vehicles absent aggressive dealing on the RL.

    On a different matter, I've seen a Chrysler 300C a few times now and I've been intrigued by it. Also just read in Car and Driver September a comparo including the Chrysler which destroyed the other two cars in that test. Historically I haven't been a fan of American cars produced since the 70s, but I guess there's no such thing as an American car anymore as evidenced by Motor Trend dropping it's Import of the Year. Just interesting to think how globalization of our economies has most directly affected the auto industry.

    Another interesting piece in Car and Driver September re: a high up American in Toyota Motor Co. I think he's been there 30+ years and works in the US 2 weeks per month and in Japan the other 2 weeks...sounds grueling!
  • cericceric Member Posts: 1,092
    quote: "That seems quite a low target. I guess it makes sense, since then they could say, "Look! We exceeded our expectations!" I don't think they'll have any trouble reaching 1000 per month."

    For the past July, here is the rough sales numbers
    - M45: 300+
    - RL 3.5: 300+
    - GS 300/430: 2716 (~2000 for GS300)
    Totally, 3300 among three Japanese brands. 1100 per brand on average.

    Now, since all three will be updated from 10/2004 to 3/2005, Acura should be happy with 1000 units sales per month. It would be dog fight among M35, GS300 and RL. The market for $40K to $50K luxury cars simply isn't that big.

    Well, that's just my simple calculation assuming German makers hold their ground against their Japanese competitors. And, lets not forget Cadillac is doing very well, and 300C is selling like hot cake.
  • legendmanlegendman Member Posts: 362
    >Have they been dealing on 2004 RLs say a year ago? Just surpised at the difference in the sticker price of both vehicles absent aggressive dealing on the RL.<

    Indeed they have. The last two RL model years have been moribund. I have frequented one Los Angeles area dealership where they will just about give the car away. The salesman told me point blank that they would sell the car for invoice, and that was his opening remark. They had cars sitting on the lot in excess of 9 months.

    For me the issue with the current RL was not so much the exterior styling, it was a poor choice of exterior colors, and the cheapening of the interior, using plastic faux fake wood (that's fake x2). Moreover, not much had changed inside the car beyond the navi system. The window and door locking systems were the same as what was put into my Legend years before.

    Mind you, it's still a fine car and an outstanding value. It just is rather bland. And although the 2005 RL redux is an improvement of sorts, for some it too is rather timid and bland. Anyway, that's my take.
  • jrock65jrock65 Member Posts: 1,371
    Lexus sold 837 GS300/430 in July, not 2716.

    The GS in its heyday (99/00) sold about 2500 per month.

    In any case, I thought the idea was to take some of the pie from the 5 and the E.

    I could see the RL/M/GS selling about 1000 to 1500 per month, each.

    However, there is also competition from the A6 and STS.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    The current RL is supposedly an expensive proposition. Honda mentioned this in a statement couple of years ago (Prelude was the other car mentioned). It was simply more expensive to manufacture and import the RL. Lack of platform and parts sharing can quickly add to the cost.

    The new RL should benefit from both. It will use the global midsize platform (shared with TL, TSX and Accord) and quite possibly will make use of the J35A (basic engine design shared between MDX, Pilot and Odyssey at the moment) dumping the old C35A. This also allows Acura to build upon everything that TL offers, and more.

    The new RL, although shorter than the outgoing RL, is said to be the largest Honda/Acura on the inside with about 103 cu. ft cabin volume. To put this in perspective, Accord (with moon roof) measures about 98 cu. ft (102.7 cu. ft without moon roof). The current RL, I believe is 98 cu ft as well. So, the interior volume represents a 4-5 cu. ft gain. The current TL, I believe, measures at 97-98 cu. ft on the inside as well.

    Honda is expected to make extensive use of lightweight material like magnesium alloy/aluminum alloy (to trim down the weight, especially to counter the added weight of SH-AWD). That, plus SH-AWD, more gadgetry, refinement and additional premium on top of everything that TL offers may account for additional $10K or so on the new RL. Navigation system is expected to be standard as well. So, for a very similar price tag as the current RL, Acura can afford to offer a lot more in the new RL.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    I too find the new Infiniti a bit overdone up front, and in the rear. On the side, there isn&#146;t much going. In a race to catch up with Audi/VW in styling department, this has become a norm among automakers. But then, in case of VW/Audi, the front and rear aren&#146;t overdone. They are a simple mix of curves, lines and angles. Well, but then, Audi&#146;s new grill is far from the same promise. I don&#146;t like it.

    When it comes to styling, I think there is a thin line subtly beautiful and overly styled. I&#146;ve rarely seen anybody say bad things about a typical Mercedes or the old BMW 7-series styling. These cars had more slab sided detailing, yet they can be considered classically designed. The same were true of the Legend.

    Acura&#146;s approach with RL appears to be in that direction. Based on the pictures I have seen, there isn&#146;t an outstanding styling element in the car, just a touch of &#147;attack mode&#148; in the fascia to conservative rear end complemented with a few lines and curves. That&#146;s usually a safe approach, and not a bad idea. And the nice thing about it is that much of its styling elements, from the grill to the tail lamps can be traced back to the RL itself, as well as some other Acura.

    On the inside (in the prototype), the contrast offered between darkish wood trim and brushed aluminum console was a little too high. It might look good with light colored wood. Other than that, the layout is once again typical Honda/Acura… logical. Symmetry would be one way to define it.

    Styling details aside, it would be interesting to see how these cars (RL, M, GS, A6, 530i, STS etc) stack up in terms of connecting the driver to the road, at the same time, isolating the passengers from it. Acura typically chooses to take middle approach, Lexus goes for complete isolation that I suspect would be a part of STS formula as well. Audi may be more Acura-like. BMW, of course, wants to be seen as a driving machine (but based on recent reviews they seem to favor isolation/numbness). The Infiniti may try to pursue BMW more than any other, but does that affect ride quality? We shall see. In G35, it does. If performance is the sole purpose of a car, that may not be an issue. People choosing Altima 3.5SE or G35 probably know it. It would be interesting to see how M35 would stack up. As for RL, I expect it to offer a balance, the Acura/Honda approach.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    That seems quite a low target. I guess it makes sense, since then they could say, "Look! We exceeded our expectations!" I don't think they'll have any trouble reaching 1000 per month.

    I&#146;ve heard of 1250 units/month sales target in the first year (1K/month during the first six months and 1.5K/month over the next six). That would be similar to TSX sales projection and if there is a demand, the projection should go up (like it has been in case of TSX).

    An important point to consider is that Acura RL will be targeting a very specific price, rather than a price range. There will be no stripped down base model to start with.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    For me the issue with the current RL was not so much the exterior styling, it was a poor choice of exterior colors, and the cheapening of the interior, using plastic faux fake wood (that's fake x2).

    That is incorrect. RL comes with Burl Camphor Wood (and, like everything else, it is not an option).
  • shotgunshotgun Member Posts: 184
    I keep hearing, on another web site, that some folks will have an opportunity to drive and report on their impression of the new RL on 1 Sep 04. I'm betting that initial reslutls will hover around the following:

    Torque: 275 lb ft
    Skid Pad: .975
    0-60: 5.75 sec
    Navi: Standard
    Top Speed: 150 mph
    Wheels: 17" standard (19" optional)

    What's your take?
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