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Acura RL

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Comments

  • cericceric Member Posts: 1,092
    Wondering what 'hidden' might mean in this context . . .

    I guess it means, if G35c can unleash 270ft-lb of torque, by tuning the engine more aggressively (intake, ECU, etc.) you can gain another 10ft-lb. It is there, but, RL being a luxury sedan, has to make a trade-off. My take on that.
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    I think Robertsmx is talking about the fact that Honda often underrates their engines in published specs. Many tuners have put stock cars on a dyno and found that either the transmissions are wonderfully efficient, or the car cranks out more power than Honda is letting on.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    But with V6, you get "only" 252 lb.-ft. Correct? And don’t forget, the key to effect of torque is in the gearing as well! Acura seems to have given up some (highway) fuel economy to provide for added thrust. The engine isn’t shy in terms of horsepower either.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    Ceric,
    I have a feeling that magazine, either, didn’t consider the secondary axle ratio (1.238:1), or the JDM spec transmission won’t have it.

    Yep. As far as engine rating is concerned, the trade off usually includes emissions (the RL engine will be LEV-II/ULEV rated) and NVH considerations.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    260 pound feet of torque may be plenty. Probably is "adequate to ample."

    The key, I have learned over the years, is not how much toque you have OVERALL, but at what point in the RPM cycle you get it.

    My Audi A6 4.2 had 295 pound feet and my 2.7T had (258 or 280 depending on which version of the engine). The 2.7T torque came on full boil BELOW 2000 RPM's. While the 4.2 was more powerful in both HP and torque, the V6 was quicker to ultra legal speeds from a standing start -- the torque # is important, but also "when" is the torque available?

    The new RL does have, I have read, substantial amounts of the torque available at moderately low RPM's -- but it would be good to have OH, about 20 more, just in case.

    Picky picky -- I'm sure they'll tune it for more over the next 9 years, don't you think?
  • jjacurajjacura Member Posts: 807
    9 Years? Smiling at your tongue in cheek comment Mark.
  • canadacraigcanadacraig Member Posts: 34
    Just wondering... I've read that Acura HAD designed a 'new RL' a couple of years ago - but decided against building it. [for one reason or another] I'd love to see what THAT car looked like. Anyone ever see that car?

    Craig!! :o)
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    Honda did redesign the RL back around 2001 or 2002. They didn't like what the engineers/designers offered at that time. So they decided not to produce it. The car probably never made it to the sheetmetal stages. I'll wager it was a bunch of drawings and computer simulations. I read once that they canned the guy responsible for the project.

    I'm sure they could have produced a car in 2001 that was better than the 2004 we have now. It probably would have been something like an MDX with extra goodies and a much lower stance.

    The question kinda reminds me of Star Wars (what?). No, bear with me for a second. =) Lucas could have made the second trilogy a few years after filming Return of the Jedi back in the 80's. Instead, he waited until the technology was up to the job of doing it right.

    I think that is what Acura tried to do with the 2005 RL. Rather than present a luke-warm product on schedule they waited until they had the tools to do it right.
  • ksomanksoman Member Posts: 683
    nice comparison to the star wars thingie, except, that wait cost Lucas literally no loss of mind share. In case of RL, they lost huge mindshare!

    waiting for a first drive....
    ksso
  • tlambtlamb Member Posts: 11
    I am trying to choose between the new 2005 Acura RL and the new 2005 Mercedes E320 CDI (Diesel). Any and all of your comments / opinions would be appreciated. I acknowledge that we are at somewhat of a disadvantage, or downright difficulty, due to the fact that neither one of these vehicles is readily available at present. Which point brings me to my second concern: I need to purchase by end of 2004 calendar year for tax purposes. Is your preferred model available / able to be delivered by that time (calling upon your observations as opposed to manufacturer hype)? Thanks for your insight and time.
  • jjacurajjacura Member Posts: 807
    Legendman, Checking over all the pictures in magazines, web sites, and even on the prototype glossy brochure from my dealer it is definately a raised molding but on the slver colored perpendicular side shot it could very easily look like the groove (Carve out) on the new TL. But if you follow the molding along the imaginary line to each bumper the extension of the molding becomes even more apparent in the wrap around design. I like the words on the brochure..."The Acura RL has been developed to soar above the current superlatives for dynamic performance, driving fullfillment, leading-edge electronics and safety design. By any measure a resounding success, this technological tour de force redefines the sporty luxury automobile.
  • proeproe Member Posts: 157
    2005 RL, period.

    There are quite a few articles talking about the new E320 CDI.

    With base price of $49,795, and the questionable quality, and diesel availability, I think it is a big no no.

    Anyway, it is your money:-)
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Member Posts: 1,681
    Possibility...if you do a European delivery I believe you pay for the new car before you bring it back; so the transaction could be registered on Dec 30th 2004, but you may not pick it up till spring 3-4 months later.

    This way if you have your heart set on the E320 CDI you could still get it and receive your tax break (unless the tax break is be based on when the car tag is registered).
  • legendmanlegendman Member Posts: 362
    I think that in order to claim the expense this year you would have to be able to demonstrate that you took delivery of the car AND that it was in service prior to Dec 31. "In service" being the key. Unless you can demonstrate that you had legit business in Europe and that you needed that car there, I think that that idea doesn't wash; moreover it's a glaring red flag to the IRS. Your accountant obviously can advise you.
  • jjacurajjacura Member Posts: 807
    tlamb, mixed reviews out there...this is the first Mercedes Deisel to be marketed in the USA since "99. Finding better quality deisel fuel can be a problem depending where you live....but the highway MPH for this car is close to 40...) Inclined to think that most in this forum will steer you away from Mercedes period.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    I think the first question would be, what exactly are you looking for? And why E320 CDI, instead of regular E320?
  • kaisofankaisofan Member Posts: 2
    I agree that the current RL which I drive has gotten long in the tooth. However, I am happy that they HMC waited to make sure that they got it right.

    Yes they lost RL sales but they more than made up for it with the TL and MDX.

    I have no disappointments about the 05. I will be getting my copy very soon.
  • timetobuytimetobuy Member Posts: 10
    The 2005 Acura RL was temporarily in the showroom of Westchester Acura in Larchmont (NY) over Labor Day weekend. There was a black one, and a white one with a few dealer added sport accessories. There were also four lined up in the lot, in assorted colors, but not the new ‘lakeshore silver metallic’ color that seems nice in press pictures.
    I saw the RLs by accident. I had dragged my wife across the county to check out the TL at a dealership other than our more local one. I like driving, she doesn’t. She refused to even come inside and was giving me the rush-sign from the minute I walked into the showroom. I have also been thinking about the RL for a while, but I have never had a ‘luxury car’ before. It’s a strange mental hurdle. I am sixty years old now and can afford it, but never quite outgrew that 1960s counter-culture perspective. We actually drive a 1990 Honda Accord EX, manual transmission. It’s time for a new car.
    I read the posts on this site and a few others. It’s quite addictive. My productivity at work has gone down quite a bit in the last few months. It’s late morning now and I am sitting at my desk hunt-and-pecking out this message... my first post.
    Anyway, the irony of my early checkout of the RL is that I wish it had been one of you guys. I probably would have learned more reading your observations here.

    That said, I'll just say a few first quick impressions, basically from my own view at this point in my (and regrettably my wife’s) “new-car-search” experience.
    -- The seats are wider, softer and more comfortable for me than the TL (or certainly the G35).
    -- I like the paddle shifters; they’re behind the steering wheel where your forefingers stay. I think I would use them more than a console shifter. I never liked the way my current (generation 3 ?) Accord handles in wet and snow. I make heavy use of manual shifting to gain more control. I like a stick… it’s fun, so does my wife, but after forty-years I may be ready for an automatic. All the new driver-assist stuff and AWD makes a manual transmission seem less critical. Plus, there’s the increased power now. As an aside, I think I would only consider a front-drive TL with a manual.
    -- The RL’s rear end seemed more high, stubby and bulging than in the pics I’ve seen. I don’t know how I feel about that, but it was the first thing that struck me.

    I could try to say more, but I don’t know if it’s worth reading and I do have to get back to work. There is a salesman at Westchester Acura who seemed to know a lot about the RL and had three days to check it out. I don’t know his name, he’s a medium-sized blond guy, about 30 yrs old. Oh also, I mentioned the RL buzz to the sales manager and he said he would rather I didn’t post anything on the internet that day about what he had there. He said he could get in trouble with ‘national’.
  • dc661dc661 Member Posts: 71
    Great info! Did the dealer have any pricing information?
  • cericceric Member Posts: 1,092
    Thank you, sir. I thoroughly enjoy your writing.
    What colors of RLs were there? Which color of RL do you like the most? I am biased toward darker RLs now.
  • l943973l943973 Member Posts: 197
    Acura has mentioned that it used the 5-Series as its target for the 2004 TL. What's strange to me is that at the same time, the 2005 RL's main competitors is also the BMW 5-Series. You would have though it would aim higher with its flagship model.
  • ksomanksoman Member Posts: 683
    everybody's flagship doesn't have to be the longest boat in town...

    ksso
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    True, the RL did lose some valuable street cred by languishing as it is. But I think that a second lackluster design would have crippled the nameplate just as much and for even longer. We'd be laughing about it's lack of competitiveness through 2008 rather than 2005.

    Timetobuy - Great first post. Welcome to the forum!
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    5-series spans a broad price range, from under $40K to over $60K. In terms of size, it is comparable to the TL, and RL is only slightly larger. In terms of pricing, well equipped, 530i would go directly against RL. This isn’t different from comparing 3-series to TL because they are priced similarly.
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    Yeah, I think comparing the TL with the 5 series is essentially a silly idea. The comparison in terms of size is accurate, but it gives the impression that the whole car is supposed to compete a notch higher than the reality of the market.

    As an advertising move, this does makes sense. But from an enthusiasts perspective, it's pretty silly.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    The only thing that plays against TL in 5-series comparison might be the driving wheels. Throw in SH-AWD, and there you go.

    As I see it, Acura is using a two-pronged attack in mid-size $35-50K class with TL and RL, while BMW uses 5-series for $35-60K or so. TSX is more of a 3-series (at this point, 325i) competitor. But then, there is some overlap between 3-series and 5-series as well so when it comes to TL, both sides get compared.
  • jjacurajjacura Member Posts: 807
    Welcome aboard TimeToBuy, Me thinks the wife will give you much slack after the first drive...take her along...alone!
  • jjacurajjacura Member Posts: 807
    (Your post #1263 Dated June 14th) I mentioned before that when this forum opens up on this particular computer (An IMac) for some reason I'm in the middle reading old stuff but this one from the Legendman is quite good, and I just wanted to let it resurface for the new readers to enjoy. Many of us long time Japanese import owners feel the same way about the maintenance quality of our machines and this posting should be read by (tlamb) the gentleman who was comparing the RL to the Mercedes E320 CDI Deisel. Scroll back to this post and enjoy!!
  • chibyrdchibyrd Member Posts: 4
    I signed up on Acura's website requesting a RL brochure several weeks ago. Has anyone received one? Also, have there been any RL Introduction Gala's at any of the dealers yet?
  • steveaccordsteveaccord Member Posts: 108
    I believe it is not exactly your iMac but your browser (Safari) that remembers what page you saw last on that computer. One little perk for the 'cognoscenti'.
    ;-)
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    I think would take more than just changing the driving wheels. The 5 series offers a great deal more content and refinement than the TL. I'm not knocking the TL (which is pretty spiffy), but they are not of the same caliber in many respects.
  • jjacurajjacura Member Posts: 807
    There are other glitches by Safari...like refusing to open up mini loads on Acura's home page and running slide shows on Shutterfly Albums that show only half of the pictures....so then I go to Internet Explorer and all is fine. Maybe future Safari upgrades will get it right! Thanks Steve
    Incidently "Cognoscenti" is obsolete Italian taken from the Latin word "cognoscens" English translation (A connoisseur) ;).....JJ
  • timetobuytimetobuy Member Posts: 10
    In addition to black and white, the other colors I saw were blue, red, desert mist and silver (I think). I lean to the darker colors, but I have a thing about not having lots-of-chrome, which is accentuated in the dark colors. Generally among the not-light colors, I like the medium gray/green/blues that you see a lot. Pretty subtle, barely even a color, like steel. BMW has a number of them. So, at Acura, colorwise, the look of a low-chrome TL in Anthracite Metallic appeals to me the most.
    It seems that the earlier RL prototype had color-matching side and rear molding (see http://www.acuraworld.com/~hafid/05RL/nyauto_rlconcept_1fr.jpg) and the production model has added a thinner chrome strip on top of that, like a molding on a molding. Kind of an afterthought.

    Following this picky approach on the 2005 RL, I think that I’m left with the lightest dark color, the one that highlights the added chrome least. That’s the new “lakeshore silver”. It’s backwards, kind of like two negatives may make a positive for me.

    Actually I think the light silver RL looks good too, but I live in a condo, and my assigned spot has two silver cars to the left of it and one to the right. Although “uniformity” in appearance is the objective, often the rule, within condo developments, ours has gone in the other direction for cars, demanding diversity, and added to the condo by-laws that “no more than three cars of identical, or identical for all intents and purposes (as judged by the Board), may be parked in consecutive spaces, for more than 12 hours, or overnight.” There is also an auxiliary rule saying that “For any six consecutive spaces, there must be at least three distinct colors of cars represented, such that...”. As luck would have it, at my condo, there is a navy blue car parked on each side of the silvers. So no dark blue car for me. Now... I told the condo Board that at my parent’s condo in Florida, there are mostly silver and white cars parked, and they don’t have any rules like ours. Some board members and other residents are sympathetic and may consider a minor change in the by-laws or maybe a senior-citizen exemption, but that couldn’t be done until March 2005 at the condo annual meeting. And we (my wife especially) can’t wait that long.
  • legendmanlegendman Member Posts: 362
    >I believe it is not exactly your iMac but your browser (Safari) that remembers what page you saw last on that computer. One little perk for the 'cognoscenti'. ;-) <

    Hey, as we 'cognoscenti' know, once you go MAC you never go back!

    My ride is an Apple G4 Silver doored mini-tower with Dual 1.25 GHz processors, 1.75 GB DDR SDRAM, running OS X 10.3 -- it's a rocket.

    (A stalwart Mac enthusiast since 1984 - Honda enthusiast since 1982)
  • timetobuytimetobuy Member Posts: 10
    In addition to black and white, the other colors I saw were blue, red, desert mist and silver (I think). I lean to the darker colors, but I have a thing about not having lots-of-chrome, which is accentuated in the dark colors. Generally among the not-light colors, I like the medium gray/green/blues that you see a lot. Pretty subtle, barely even a color, like steel. BMW has a number of them. So, at Acura, colorwise, the look of a low-chrome TL in Anthracite Metallic appeals to me the most.
    It seems that the earlier RL prototype had color-matching side and rear molding (see http://www.acuraworld.com/~hafid/05RL/nyauto_rlconcept_1fr.jpg) and the production model has added a thinner chrome strip on top of that, like a molding on a molding. Kind of an afterthought.

    Following this picky approach on the 2005 RL, I think that I&#146;m left with the lightest dark color, the one that highlights the added chrome least. That&#146;s the new &#147;lakeshore silver&#148;. It&#146;s backwards, kind of like two negatives may make a positive for me.

    Actually I think the light silver RL looks good too, but I live in a condo, and my assigned spot has two silver cars to the left of it and one to the right. Although &#147;uniformity&#148; in appearance is the objective, often the rule, within condo developments, ours has gone in the other direction for car colors, demanding diversity, and added to the condo by-laws that &#147;no more than three cars of identical, or identical for all intents and purposes (as judged by the Board), may be parked in consecutive spaces, for more than 12 hours, or overnight.&#148; There is also an auxiliary rule saying that &#147;For any six consecutive spaces, there must be at least three distinct colors of cars represented, such that...&#148;. As luck would have it, at my condo, there is a navy blue car parked on each side of the silvers. So no dark blue car for me. Now... I told the condo Board that at my parent&#146;s condo in Florida, there are mostly silver and white cars parked, and they don&#146;t have any rules like ours. Some board members and other residents are sympathetic and may consider a minor change in the by-laws or maybe a senior-citizen exemption, but that couldn&#146;t be done until March 2005 at the condo annual meeting. And we (my wife especially) can&#146;t wait that long.
  • legendmanlegendman Member Posts: 362
    I tried the link you provided but only got an expired web page. Could you check that again?

    As to your condo rules: are you serious? I have heard about these boards being incredibly anal, but dictating car color diversity/in parking spaces/over time seems an equation that adds up to lunacy of the highest order.

    Hey, why not ask the board to consider whether it also has jurisdiction over brand names? You know, no more than two Chevy's in a row. Playing the game by their bizzaro rules, maybe you could argue that your 2005 Acura RL would be the only one in your parking complex. That sounds like diversity to me.

    ;-)
  • legendmanlegendman Member Posts: 362
    >There are other glitches by Safari...like refusing to open up mini loads on Acura's home page and running slide shows on Shutterfly Albums that show only half of the pictures....so then I go to Internet Explorer and all is fine. Maybe future Safari upgrades will get it right! <

    Incidently "Cognoscenti" is obsolete Italian taken from the Latin word "cognoscens" English translation (A connoisseur) ;).....JJ <

    I don't think that's so much of a glitch as it is a question of the web site developer optimizing the site for a browser like Microsoft Explorer.

    Any one who has ever built a web site knows that what may look perfect on Explorer might look way out of whack on Netscape.

    Since something like 94% of all computer users use a PC and not a Mac (Apple), it would make little sense for Acura to spend the time (now, or ever) to build the site to optimize Apple's Safari browser, used by a very small percentage of global users.

    From Merriam Webster On-Line:
    Cognoscenti -- obsolete Italian (now conoscente), from Latin cognoscent-, cognoscens, present participle of cognoscere : a person who is especially knowledgeable in a subject: CONNOISSEUR
  • timetobuytimetobuy Member Posts: 10
    I fixed the link to the RL prototype picture.

    No, just kidding. I'm on the condo board, and the real parking rules are complicated and restrictive. Nothing about colors. Yet.

    But there are three silver cars around my car, and two blues outside of them.
  • jjacurajjacura Member Posts: 807
    TTB: Thanks for fixing that link....the best Photo I have seen yet from the rear angle of the new RL. Glad you were kidding about your Condo Parking rules...Can't imagine living like that except maybe in a Mad Mad Mad World with Jonathon Winters as your neighbor!
    Legend: Glad to know you are steeped in Mac. Hope you are available for me to run quick questions on occasion. I used Gateway PCs for many years and finally found the way with Mac! Being retired I have relatively lots of time so I still use a dial up connection but one of these days will probably go Roadrunner for some High Speed. Thanks for the info on Safari.
     
    I'll be visiting my pregnant daughter in Houston soon. She is due Oct 8th...we will stay for a couple weeks until the baptism so more than likely I will be going over to Gilman Acura in North Houston to test drive the new RL, coincidence being we were there last year when the New TL was introduced ....its going to feel like Groundhog Day. Who knows...maybe we will return to Wisconsin in a new car! (Any comments on whether or not that would be an OK way to break in a new car...1,250 miles at 73 MPH?
  • acurafan1acurafan1 Member Posts: 4
    I'm a big Acura fan in need of advice. I put 80,000 miles on a '90 Legend without a hiccup and then purchased a '93 Legend which I still own. It has 156,000 on it and other than standard maintenance (timing chain at 90K, etc.) it has cost me nothing. It's time to get an RL and I'm not willing to pay the price for the '05 RL (it sounds like a phenomenal vehicle). I'm finding that most dealers in NJ have sold all their '04 RL's and I'm wondering what I lose feature-wise if I purchased a used '03 or '02 RL? I need the space an RL offers (3 kids) so I guess the TL is not an option. Any and all advice is appreciated.
  • natenate Member Posts: 12
    I read on the Acura website that RL tires are 245/50R17. When I do a search on Tirerack.com only two tires comeup that size. An ultra high performance Michelin, and Dunlop sp 5000. Does any one know what type or brand of all season tires the RL come with?
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Member Posts: 1,681
    Ahhh a condo run by Stalin.

    My take is; get what you want and let them come after you. What's the penalty for having an improper colored car?

    Then again with rules like that, I'd revolt with pink flamingos as parking space adornments.
  • 1violinist1violinist Member Posts: 338
    The prototype at the show had Michelin tires. It seems the more likely choice. Even the 05 TL (w/nav) comes with Michelin instead of the infamous BS EL42!
  • legendmanlegendman Member Posts: 362
    Acurafan:

    Before you give up on a new (2004) RL, why not get on your computer and look up some other Acura dealerships in surrounding states, and check their inventory? I don't know the geographical lay of the land there but perhaps you are close enough for a half day drive in a direction of a state that would have a car. You can negotiate over the phone, then go and pick up the car, or even arrange to have it delivered (I would opt for the former). I certainly would not be concerned about buying the car in New York, for example, then getting it serviced in New Jersey. Despite what some of the salesman tell you, all dealerships are more than happy to have your service department dollars!

    If driving to another state, or a distant spot within your state does not appeal to you, and you are willing to pay a premium, you could go to your local Acura dealer and ask them to do a "dealer trade", where they search for, locate, then buy the car from another dealer that has one and then they in turn sell it to you -- obviously at a somewhat greater cost.

    As for used models, my generic advice would be to get a 2003 if possible. I believe that the navigation systems were refined in each successive year, so if navi is an important feature for you, a later model car may be the better choice. On the other hand, a two year old model coming off of a lease ought to be in nice shape, with low miles while still in warranty.

    The 2004 and 2003 models were both generally excellent cars, terrific values then and now. I would bargain hard however on a used model, given that now in 2005 there has been a quantum leap forward in both body style and technology; thus the older RLs will likely command less in resale now and especially down the road a few years.
  • legendmanlegendman Member Posts: 362
    >Does any one know what type or brand of all season tires the RL come with?<

    I believe that Acura and Honda have been putting Michelin's on their full size cars for a good ten years. Honda Motor Company trusts Michelin, and with good reason. I suppose that there may have been a few exceptions on past occasions, but I would be very surprised if this new RL did not come down off the truck wearing Michelin's.

    If I am wrong on the Michelin's than I think they would be Dunlop's. I could not envision Acura using Goodyear, Pirreli or even Bridgestone's on this car. Obviously Firestone ain't in the running -- now or any time soon -- on this car or any car with a reputation at stake. And I venture to say that they aren't going to go with exotic Japanese or Korean tires either.

    Other viewpoints, gentlemen?
  • legendmanlegendman Member Posts: 362
    >I make heavy use of manual shifting to gain more control. I like a stick… it&#146;s fun, so does my wife, but after forty-years I may be ready for an automatic.<

    Yeah, I used to like a stick, but after years of commuting to work in the snow of the midwest and later the congested freeways of California, once I got an automatic I never looked back. Besides, with all the other distractions, including cell phones, it's good to have use of your right hand.

    Not to split hairs, but I wonder aloud what constitutes better "control" of the car. Other than downshifting while on curves or approaching a stop light, I don't see how a stick driver would have materially more control when driving. If you think about it, with all the herking and jerking that goes on as one goes up or down through the gears, I think that if one could look closely enough, you'd see variations in steering direction during some up-shifts or down-shifts. (Yeah, I know some of you guys will say that your shifting is smooth as silk, but I think under close up, slow motion photography, one would see that the path the car takes during shifting is not a perfect straight line; and in any event not as straight as would come with an automatic.) Your left arm has to steer, your left leg has to clutch, your right leg has to press down or come up off the gas pedal -- or brake pedal -- and you must of course shift with your right hand. Your entire body is having to manage all these functions in perfect time, meanwhile you have to look out the windshield and manage traffic intervals, stop lights, pedestrians and other obstacles.

    Today's commercial and fighter pilots are being relieved of having to "fly the plane" by automated systems that free the pilot to concentrate on other matters. I would submit that by driving the automatic, you would be able to put more brain power into all the demands that modern day driving requires. The new SH-AWD will give drivers an unprecedented level of control, allowing the driver to focus on the road, getting the most out of the car; all without a manual shift.
  • ksomanksoman Member Posts: 683
    The s2000's rolled with pirelli's for a while, don't know if they still do.

    ksso
  • ksomanksoman Member Posts: 683
    however much i love to row stick on my own, at this point in evolution, its becoming immaterial.

    on another note, honda automatics downshift when you brake, i know they started doing that sometime in the early 90s with their automatics.

    ksso
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    Not to be contrary, but I find that driving my wife's TL (auto) allows my brain to wander. Most often it finds things other than driving for its subject matter. Meanwhile, driving my manual forces me to keep in sync with the process of driving.
  • ksomanksoman Member Posts: 683
    Ok so the specs for the V6-VCM-Hybrid Accord is announced and its hitting the market at the start of December.

    I am putting $10 bet that this will make it to the RL in its mid-cycle freshening ;)
    3.5 V6-VCM with 350 HP & 300 Lb/ft, fuel economy of 27 city, 34 highway for MY2007?

    ksso
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