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But still... the TSX and TL look awesome, and I was hoping their design theme would make it to the RL. It's strange that the TSX and TL got headlights like the old Odyssey's, while the RL's look more like the new Odyssey's. One of these days Honda is going to have to use the Acura badge worldwide to allow for a separation of design themes. But do keep the "real word" names in other markets, if not here...
I can also note a strong Passat influence in the Phaeton -- this does not necessarily imply I think that is a negative.
Currently I am unable to test drive the 300C AWD, the 3.2 A6 and a new RL (and still wondering if the A4 3.2 will be a contender, but just found out that there will be no manual transmission in the A4 3.2, so it has become less interesting.)
Of the cars my wife and I have test driven of late, the one that we like the looks of the most is the Acura TL.
The family resemblance of the RL and the Accord are real (for me). I had thought, based on the pictures, that the Acura (from the rear anyway) would look a bit more Chris Bangle-ish (5 series BMW).
I am a long long time Audi owner -- as is my wife. The Audi loyalty "incentives" may make the new A6 irresistible -- but the savings of over $9,000 may make the 300C AWD attractive too.
The only thing I have ruled out from my short list is the new STS AWD (at $62+K, the A8 would be my choice, but I am not looking in that price range).
Yes my Euro-bias is there, but I still will give these cars their due.
Just got a call to come and test another A6 -- but again it is the V8. Not interested in that flavor, at that price.
Of course, my wife thinks I'm nuts for even considering the 300C AWD (thinks it looks too much like a "gangsta car!")
Perhaps, the similarity between the Accord and the RL is more pronounced because there is no striking differentiating design on the RL, such as the HUGE grill of the A6.
The 2006 M looks a lot like the Altima/Maxima as well.
;-)
ksso
There's been some subliminal bonding going on hereabouts,and leaving this forum will definitely produce a tug. Perhaps we should have a reunion every new -model year! (I'll bring the hors d'oeuvres, you bring the wine.)
These postings have been a wonderful anodyne and a welcome relief from the abrasiveness of the "outside" world. For months we've discussed the RL with such specificity, all the while sharing, learning and contributing with patience and respect; Kirstie's whip lay idle. Drivers, take a bow!
How many people do we all know that have purchased 26 cars of any make in a row? I would venture to say that if Acura can sell an RL to this guy it would be worthy of a story in Motor Trend and a free trip to Japan for the dealer rep and Mark and his family.
Please understand that my previous posts on the subject were not meant as an attack on Mark's perceptions. He is more than welcome to his opinion and I doubt there can be a definitive right and wrong on the issue.
It's just that I raise an eyebrow whenever I read that someone thinks car A resembles car B. Seldom do I read a post where someone can explain why they see this resemblance. The remarks seem based more on convenience than real similarity (The Accord is a sedan. The RL is a sedan. Both are made by Honda. There must be a similarity.)
Now, if someone says, the Accord and RL share a raked profile and short decklid. That's all very true. But as you've mentioned that's true for nearly every car on the road. Styling elements like that are not at all distinctive. So why does the RL look like an Accord, but not a TL, or an Impala, or a Mazda 6, or a 5 series, or an E class, or a Malibu, or a Camry, or a Sonata...
You might as well say, "The RL and Accord are similar because they both have four wheels."
The other problem I see with comparisons of the sort, is latching onto one similarity and claiming that the cars are twins. The Monte Carlo and new Subaru Legacy sedan both have similar (distinctive) headlights. That does not mean the two cars were separated at birth.
I think that in order to make a meaningful comparison, you need to find several shapes, lines, or curves which are shared by both vehicles. A meaningful comparison would include 5 or 6 styling elements. And they shouldn't be details that are shared with the entire auto industry.
I wonder if your comments hold. Most people "feel" similarities between half brothers & half-sisters, like honda/acura (car-wise), they don't necessarily are able to quantify them.
For that reason, I thought that broadly speaking the Infinity "M" looked awfully similar to the RL at the NY Autoshow, though the devil was in the details where I personally thought the M looked better.
Then again, I'm more likely to buy a RL before I even think of a M or a GS. Blame it on personal tastes.
ksso
My new RL black on black should be in this week or next. I went to two dealers. The second was going to give me $2000 more on my 2000 E320 trade-in and they also gave me the all-weather floormats and the spoiler!
Lynnminny
Example: three years ago, it was time to replace her '93 Quest with 165K on the clock.
ME: What do you want?
HER: A minivan.
ME: You've had a minivan for 12 years. Don't you want a "regular" car?
HER: I like the space and roominess. To me, a minivan is a "regular" car.
So, we went out to get an '01 Odyssey EX. We were lucky to get one in her color choice.
Other "bribes" include furniture, computers, and home renovations (kitchen, flooring, etc.) in return for my men's toys. I don't think I'll get any flak for the new RL.
I have an anti-European bias from my previous ownership of one BMW and two Porsches over 14 years. Then, I grew up. Traded the Bimmer for a Legend in 1986 and have always had an Acura in my garage since.
But, I don't drop in on these other boards to post messages against their marquees.
She said, "Fine."
I then said, as we sat in the showroom looking at a TL with chrome wheels: "The RL would look slick with chrome wheels. We've never had chrome wheels, but they're probably about $1,500."
"So," she said, "I don't need to know ALL of the numbers."
We've been together forty-seven years, during which time she never raised an eyebrow when I went through three Honda bikes, Tandberg separate components, Inspiron 8600 laptop, Collins radio equipment and, last night, a new Dimension 3000 series Dell, plus countless other toys over the years..
But, as Prophet stated, there are quid pro quos when, if volunteered, rather than extracted, smooth the waters. I do countless things, unsolicited....flowers, occasional pieces of jewelry, and household chores, never implying that it's HER job because she's a woman. Yup, they're "bribes" of a sort but more like "reciprocities."
Last time I got 5 months off my lease, for example.
Sometimes it is an e-mail that says "print this out and it will get you $1,000 off your best deal on a new such and such for the next x days. . . ."
Several companies do this, and most offer some kind of loyalty bonus "if you ask!"
My issue is not a dislike of Audis AT ALL -- it is, in part, especially with respect to the Acura, that they have assembled all the things in one car that, ON PAPER, press my "buy buttons."
It was relatively easy to buy so many Audis over the years because NO OTHER CAR could touch them since I wanted two main features: AWD and stick shift. Who else offered a wide variety of cars with these attributes? I did not, heretofore, consider Subarus, so essentially they didn't count.
Dr. Piech (the father of quattro) said, in 1983, that "all cars, eventually, will have AWD drive trains for performance, safety, efficiency and fun." OK, so here we are 20 years later and it is coming to pass (slowly, I'll grant, but accelerating).
I mean, for example, did you see the new Ford 500 ad on TV? Touting AWD and ripping off the Passat 4motion slip slidin' away ad!?!
Subaru, Volvo, even the mighty BMW and Mercedes lines are or soon will, across virtually their entire ranges, offer AWD. SH-AWD will, I'll wager soon be available on the Acura TL (and won't that be awesome -- especially if it is with a 300HP V6 powerplant?!)
My [Audi] loyalty is strong -- but NOW, practically for the first time in 20 years, there are (in my mind) many legitimate choices, where there have been very few until the last couple of years.
With Acura, Audi, Cadillac, Chrysler, Ford, Infiniti, Lexus, Mercedes, Saab, Subaru, Volvo, VW and certainly others that I have missed or overlooked for some reason -- now offering competent AWD vehicles (where before there were practically only Audis), perhaps you can understand why it is not that I have fallen out of love with them so much as now I have some choices.
Furthermore, even though there are now many more choices, something will soon be dead and gone: manual transmissions. Since the A6 for example cannot be had with a stick, comparing the RL to the A6 is now easy (for if the A6 came in stick, I would not even consider the RL or the 300C, for instance).
This is the "golden age" of car shopping and buying.
(Remember when they sold adaptors for 8-track players to play cassettes?)
Acura RL
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For my part, Honda/Acura has left a similar impression on my buying trends. The ownership experience with my first Honda was a radical departure from my prior experience with a Ford, a few Subarus, two Mazdas, and a (terrible) Chevy. I learned that simple things make a difference. Perhaps I wasn't paying enough attention with earlier cars (I'm not old enough to claim decades of experience), but my first Honda really changed what I expect from a car.
I love not being on a first name basis with a mechanic.
I appreciate effective engine technology (FWIW, I consider VW/Audi the second most inventive company in this regard.)
I now consider ergonomics more important than styling.
I'll take a powerful, clean, and fuel efficient engine over one that provides the same power, yet sacrifices efficiency for more torque.
The things Honda and Acura ownership has taught me do not exclude other brands. I'd buy a Mazda 3 over a Honda Civic (though maybe not a Civic hybrid). But I look for these "Honda-like" qualities whenever I consider a car.
He has to contend with his wife who will not consider a Honda - she wants the "A" logo on the hood, not the "H." According to him, it's all my fault. I showed up at his place when I got my new '86 Legend, then later told him about an immaculate Legend w/6300 miles traded in for a Mazda RX-7. I took them down to "just look;" they drove it home a few hours later. It was even in "her" color. Presently, he has an '03 TL-S, she drives an '04 TSX, and the spare car is a '90 Integra.
The Ford 500 only gets 208 hp from a V-6. No attraction for me despite the $20,000 price advantage.
I was struck to see the significant number of new postings that seem to grow with exponential pace! This is rendering quite difficult my choice of which are the most significant to address when they evoke my impulse to reply.....
So after diligently reading as many of them as I could manage I stopped here (I will thoug meander toward other ones later on). This post has struck me has having the rare quality of being 'inspired' by a genuine gift of linking one's own personal matters/feelings with other held to be sharing similar values.
If over-interpreting jjacura intentions, I still was pervaded by the impression of dialogueing with a friend baring his toughts to me. And I was struck because for this and other posts I suddenly have realized that something in me has totally appreciated this forum and developed a bond of friendship with many of you.
So jjacura let me recommend dearly that you go and get yourself that new RL you want and that I am sure you (and your wife) will enjoy immensely. After all, you have taken your responsabilties in becoming the man you wanted to be, the father and the husband that has pitched in and there is nothing wrong in getting yourself a nice present now and then. I totaly agree with that advertising campaign the instructed that 'what is important is not the final destination but how we got there' and I would add 'the state of mind you have enjoyed getting there'. So I would conclude that for many of us putting an RL in our driveways/parking spots etc would be the tonic just to accomplish that and as we boost our enthusiam for life and all it has to offer we can fend off those, sometime enslaving, all so rationale processes by which we deny ourselves essential gratifications.
In other words life it is too short to pass on occasion such as this, go on get your RL.
Going to other topics. Can somebody explain me why markcincynnati got picked and put in hot seat? OK he is an Audi enthusiast, so what's wrong with that? I believe he has always posted excellent comments/thoughts and most importantly has reminded us that indeed the new RL is not and will not be the only luxury sedan on the market with excellent pedigree/performance/styleing etc. In fact, we owe him a debt of gratitude if anything. Think to the Acura exec reading throughout these postings and then discussing how much we will have to pay for getting our RL! Well with Mark on board the result has been ~$49,000, without Mark it could have been a couple Ks higher (OK, OK Mark is not the only market force in setting the price but you got my point, he has helped in moderating our 'highs' and directed us to be more realistic).
OK so my final conclusion is all but that of thanking all of you, the tech gurus, the gentlemen, the admittedly not so young, the green ones etc, I truly enjoyed the ride in your company......and I will buzz in once I get to my next destination ('07 RL?).
Well may be a little earlier than that.
Truly,
Steve
P.S. I decided to identify groups rather than individual Posters because this message was already getting a bit too long without writing down 2 more pages of names. You know who I am referring to just the same!
My "better half" seemingly has little use for trinkets, I gave her an exquisite sapphire and diamond necklace several years ago. She wore it at a dinner party I hosted a few weeks ago - there were inquiries by several of the other women there. It reflected well on me.
One of my requirements is that a vehicle look good when driven by the women in the family. I can't say that an Aztek fills the bill, but the RL undoubtedly will ........
Just Kidding!
The Acura RL, competitor to the A6, is priced at $49,990.00, when you add the 18" wheels and back-up sensor, it is $51,300.00. The comparably equipped A6 is $51,270.00. The prices are virtually the same for comparable vehicles!
Ok, I'll keep looking.
Oh, and love my new RL by the way.
But my recommendation - test drive the RL, the A6, and the A8L. The goal - compare the handling of all 3 cars, but especially try out the air suspension in the A8L (very fun!) THEN, wait until Spring when the A6 will offer the air suspension too--if it is anything like A8L, it may be worth the wait.
Oh, and for the "bells and whistles" - the MMI on the A6 is far superior in simplicity and more modern in the appearance on the screen. Also, the "zoom-in" and "zoom-out" feature transitions flawlessly (no wait-time in the transition). It looks just like it does in the commercial you find on the Audi website. However, I am disappointed about Audi discontinuing On-Star.
I do like the air suspension, however, my test drive experience with Cadillac tells me that MagnaRide would be preferable (for me), as it is an electronic system that can adjust the shock absorbers up to 1,000 times per second. MagnaRide then, is more or less a real-time system whereas the air suspension system used by Audi is simply "active" (but not real-time in the sense that MagnaRide is).
The suspension that I, admittedly, know little about, but based on what I know would be "a great compromise" is the one that was on the short-lived Audi RS6 (dual diagonal "passive real-time" control of the shocks); this system would almost prevent body roll in cornering.
I would suspect that SH-AWD and one form or another of an adaptive suspension (and perhaps a somewhat stiffer suspension, based on the comments posted here) would be formidable.
Still, with only reading as my guide, it appears that the Acura is "tuned" on the lux side of the equation and the Audi is tuned to the sport side (translated = some folks may find the Audi a harsh ride compared with the Acura RL).
Had Cadillac not priced the STS w/AWD so high, perhaps the STS with AWD and MagnaRide would have been today's achievement of the Holy Grail of balance between luxury and sport. At that price, I will not be shopping for the STS.
But, when you've got what will probably be a $50,000 Acura and Audi and perhaps a $43,000 Chrysler 300C AWD to fully examine, hmmm -- as I said, it is the golden age to be in the market for a car. . .don't you think? Or don't you?
Mike
Can any RL driver tell me about 4 things that bother me with the RL:
- no ledge to put yr left arm by the drivers window. Did anybody notice?
- foot brake gets in the way of left foot when resting
- rear middle seat is so elevated no one can spend much time there, even little kids
- XM did not sound so fabulous on sound system. I have an Allroad and XM sounds truly CD quality, whereas it sounded more like FM on the RL.
Thx for the feedback
However, some people could give a rat's *ss about cachet.
As for the rear middle seat... after some of the posts on this list...I tried sitting in that middle seat...frankly, it was next to impossible for both my head and bottom end. However, we do not frequently need a car for 5 people...so for us...it was not a major disadvantage.
I did not notice whether the foot brake gets in the way of the left foot when resting.... what would concern me however, is whether it gets in the way of removing the left foot on its path to the break pedal. Has anyone noticed if that was a problem?
On our last drive -- I wanted to focus on the performance of the car -- so I did not turn on FM or XM.
“Theoretically, using electromagnetic field to alter viscosity of damping fluid, hence damping rate, is a clever idea. But the European and Japanese experts are not fools and they know what advantages and disadvantages the Magnetic Ride Control has. Drive a STS equipped with this optional feature and you will know - it limits body movement successfully, but it pays the price in ride quality. No matter in comfort or sport mode, the ride is stiffer than a luxurious saloon ought to have. Undoubtedly, air suspension is still a better solution.”
However, some people could give a rat's *ss about cachet. "
"Some people" That would be me! But between you and me the car has a quiet kind of distinction that some of us really appreciate, and it grows on you and for the most part it's way too early to judge as it is barely on the street yet.
In a USA Today article published on October 8th was an excellent study on cars with the best and worst resale value. (source Kelley Blue Book)
THE BEST.....
Mini Cooper 3 yr....62% 5 yr...52%
Volvo XC90 62 52
Nissan 350Z 62 51
Acura TL 62 48
Infiniti G35 Coupe 62 48
Mazda RX8 62 47
Honda Odyssey 62 45
Honda Civic 61 44
THE WORST.....
Pontiac Aztek 3 yr....27% 5 yr....18%
Chevy Blazer 27 19
Buick Century 29 19
Suzuki Vitara 30 19
Mitsubishi Diamante 31 20
Chrysler Sebring 32 20
Ford Ranger 33 20
Mercury Sable 33 20
Jaguar X Type 36 20
That would apply only if you use left-foot braking --- which I thought a technique used only by New York taxi drivers!
1) Interior is very nice with superb seating. Materials quality is inching ever so close to BMW.
2) Ride was firmer than previous Acuras I have owned and quite similar to my 530 with normal suspension.
3) Power was more than a 530 for sure but felt a little longer to respond probably because of heavier weight in spite of more torque.
4) I could feel the power in the front wheels through the steering wheel. Not torque steer at all but it gave the steering a little lighter weight than the 530.
5) The takeup on abrupt bumps seemed to be less forgiving than on the BMW.
6) On very rough surfaces I feel the BMW wins.
7) Throttle off response is not as smooth as the BMW. Now this might go away as the car breaks in.
8) Brakes feel on par.
9) Seating position is excellent with nice cockpit feel as the BMW.
10)Engine sounds are a bit louder and more guttural than a BMW. I still think a BMW six is a winner.
11)If you have to have all the toys - an Acura might be $3-5K less than a 530, so there is a BMW premium.
Enjoy your new RLs...