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Acura RL

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Comments

  • l943973l943973 Member Posts: 197
    Now that Tom Elliott is retiring and being replaced by Mazda's COO John Mendal (Effective Dec 1), maybe we'll see some more aggresive styling in future Acuras.
  • jjacurajjacura Member Posts: 807
    Your explanation was perfect and right and several postings ahead of mine.... DAH Next time maybe I will read all the posts before wasting anyones time...Thanks :-0
  • amarasingheamarasinghe Member Posts: 3
    1) When I close the mic near the overhead console with my thumb, I hear a low grade rumble of the engine. The rumble is loud. However, I am not sure if this is real noise, normally canceled by the noise cancellation system, or feedback because I am closing the mic. For example, you don’t hear the same rumble if you are outside. Owners, try this out and let us know what you think.

    2) When the head lights are in the auto mode, there is an annoying warning noise when the car is turned off and the lights are on. Since I know that the lights are going to be switched off in a minute, I don’t want all that beeping to warn me. Can I turn that off?

    3) I wish Acura had integrated functionality of the center console display, hands-free phone and the nav better. All of these have independent features with somewhat different user interfaces (handsfree phone is all voice vs. center console is a rigid menu system vs. nav with a much nicer graphical UI) Plus there are two talk buttons, one for the nav and one for the handsfree (and one other for onstar).

    4) Can I make the car lock automatically when all the key FOBs walk away from the car? That would be a nice feature to have.

    5) How many of you are primarily using voice to input the Nav? Sometimes, when the voice input does a wrong thing and I have to manually get to the right menu, I cannot go back to voice. For example, in inputting an address, if I get to the screen using voice I can speak the address. If I get to it using the joystick I get a letter-by-letter spell screen.
  • nebraskaguynebraskaguy Member Posts: 341
    >>Can I make the car lock automatically when all the key FOBs walk away from the car? That would be a nice feature to have.

    Yes, that would be a nice feature, but it doesn't work that way.
  • jjacurajjacura Member Posts: 807
    "Great information in your post, but painfully difficult to read. Perhaps I'm just an old fashioned, old school fart. I could manage your final run on sentence fine, it was the previous 30 strung together that had me swimming."

    That truly was a lot of great information. I enjoyed the content...but can you imagine how long that post would have scrolled if he had done the St Mary's grade school english class thing? Good Post Soapkng!
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    Hey, sacguy. I can't get into all the details about the A6 4.2 in the RL forum, but the reason I chose it over the RL was the rear seat space and the V8. It has some serious giddyap and I didn't feel that in the RL. And the trunk is remarkable for a midsize car! You can check my post in the Prices Paid thread on the A6 forum. And now I'm being offered an even better deal from a different dealer! :-(
  • y2ktonyy2ktony Member Posts: 8
    I have to agree with ksoman on many of the points he mentioned.

    My first impression was that the interior of the RL was stunning. Beautiful control layout, comfortable seats, lots of features, etc. I thought to myself "this is the car!". Until I drove it that is. This car rides no better than my 2002 Volvo S80. If you prefer a lot of gadgets, then this is the car for you. For me, however, ride quality is also important and the RL really missed the mark here.

    My complaint about my Volvo S80 is that it is very jarring over large bumps. Very much so, in fact. It has always irritated me since the day I leased it three years ago. So, this time I decided that I wanted a luxury car that actually provides a luxurious ride. Unfortunately, the RL missed two marks for me: 1) This car is also very jarring over bumps and 2) this car is not at all quiet (mostly road noise). After test driving the Mercedes E320, Audi A6 and BMW 530i earlier the same day, the Acura missed the mark here by far. The Mercedes, Audi and BMW were far quieter, and when they hit any significant bumps, it was a non-event (amazingly so in the Mercedes).

    Another mark missed by the RL for me was exterior styling. It just doesn't move me. Same problem with my Volvo. It's a nice car, but every time I get in it I'm just not excited by it. When I was walking around the lot with the Acura salesperson trying to find a Lakeshore Silver RL they had in stock, he kept thinking that the TLs were the RLs. In fact, at one point my salesperson thought a used Honda Accord on the lot was the RL. If I'm leasing a $50K car, I want it to be unique and special. The exterior of the RL is anything but unique and special.

    Bottom line: I went with the Mercedes E320. It had the best combination for me of styling, ergonomics, features and ride quality. It just looks, feels and drives like a $50K sedan. I just couldn't get excited about the RL exterior, no matter how hard I tried. And the ride quality really disappointed me. I also disliked that the rear seats don't fold (a minor gripe).

    I was also surprised to find that the Mercedes lease price was in the mid $500's vs. the upper $700's for the RL. Considering that the Mercedes I leased was $56,000, it appears that the lease price for the RL is extremely inflated. The RL is definitely a car to buy, not lease.

    Tony
  • steveaccordsteveaccord Member Posts: 108
    Many congratulations on your purchase, the E320 is definitely a great choice and so were all the alternate vehicles you considered. They all have their unique bouquet of strenghts and weaknesses and I guess it is the specifics of each assortment that lures each one of us to make different choices.
    Although, as repeated 'ad nauseam', I am not on the market until the '07 model arrives (I do not think I can cheat my wife out of the SUV category, so I'll have to be patient until my car needs updating) I am still intrigued by the reports of people that has spent time comparing such high caliber vehicles and so I wanted to ask you some facts in regard to what you mentioned.

    I believe the 'drive feel' is too personal to be exported/catered to another person taste but the noise issue would appear to be ripe for an objective evaluation.
    Therefore I would kindly ask if you can put quantifiers and qualifiers side by side in your evaluation.
    For example, my deduction is that the background noise levels between the E320 and the RL were in favor of the former rather than the latter (road noise + external inputs + wind noise if moving briskly?). If that was so did you also test the sound qualities while operating the vehicles such as carrying a conversation, a phone call in the vehicle, listening to your favorite radio station or CD? If yes, what were your impression (I would appreciate if you would be able to give each vehicle a 1-10 score, with 10 being best)[sorry for the runon sentence, the native romanze language at work here!!;-)].
    As you may have guessed the technophile side of me was under the impression/spell that the noise reduction (< 180Htz) and noise cancellation systems (other higher frequencies intruding the habitacle) were state of the art and would warrant the best available listening experience!
    Once again I would value your inputs if your exeprience was counter to the impressions I just expressed (mind that I am not that concerned about the 'tombal silence' in a lux ride as much that my music listening and conversations can be carried out just as if I were in my living room).

    Dear JJ,
    Thanks very much for the attribution of the "QHM' title. Humbly accepted, I'll see if I can use to land a moonlighting position in the PR corner of the Honda/Acura enterprise!! LOL.
    By the way in keeping up with your attribution I wanted to share with you (as retribution) that I got news of Forbes coming up with (what sounds) a rave review of the RL (yes, yet another one!). Keep cheking their life style section!
    Truly,

    Steve
  • soapkngsoapkng Member Posts: 21
    Habitat1 - In the past, on other forums, I found that even if I entered paragraph/breaks in typing my post it was all compacted together when listed.

    As this was my first post on this forum, and now I know better, I will be sure to create paragraphs so you old-fashioned, proper english-speaking chaps will have an easier time getting through it :-)

    And, yes, I do like the RL, even with it's quirks - I guess the perfect car has still yet to be created.
  • y2ktonyy2ktony Member Posts: 8
    steveaccord,

    I find the Mercedes E320 to be a "9" on your scale in terms of quiet ride (I will reserve a score of "10" for cars such as the Mercedes S430 or Lexus LS430 sedans).

    Certainly the noise levels in the Acura are not enough to prevent you from carrying on a conversation, but the ride is definitely not quiet. There is significant road noise, especially over rough pavement and bumps. I'd give the RL a "6" or "7" in this respect. A friend of mine has a new Toyota Camry that is quieter than the RL. Granted they are two different cars, but I would expect at least the same silence from a $50K luxury sedan.

    There certainly are many definitions of luxury, but road noise in any $50K luxury sedan should not even need to be discussed. It should be a given that the sedan is quiet, accelerates well, handles well, and is ergonomically correct. Once these criteria are met, other fun features such as navigation should be added. I feel that the basics should be right before adding all the gizmos.

    Both the Acura and Mercedes have noise cancellation systems that work to some degree, but in the Acura I not only heard but "felt" significantly more road noise than I would have like. The Acura just doesn't have that same solid, vault-like feeling. Granted, the E320 is not dead quiet, but rather it provides a nice mix of quiet isolation from the road while at the same time providing accurate, precise handling with a good sense of road feel. There's a difference between providing a good sense of road feel vs. feeling the road over every imperfection.

    Tony
  • r2917r2917 Member Posts: 67
    I find it funny a person would say they want their 50K car to have unique and special styling yet went and bought a MB E class that to me looks like every other MB sedan save for the headlights. Likewise, I feel the BMW styling is so close that when I see a 5 and 7 on the street I can't tell them apart right away but that is common among German car companies, IMO. I don't know how an Acura salesman could confuse the TL with the RL. They don't look anything alike.

    I just priced an E320 4Matic on MB's Cdn site with comparable equipment to the RL. Price came to almost NINETY THOUSAND! For that price I'd get a loaded LS430 for a few grand more, especially if my main concern was noise and ride quality. Oh and for 20 grand more than the RL I'd sure as heck hope the E320 was quieter. What exactly would you be paying 20 grand more for if it wasn't quieter and didn't have a smoother ride?

    To each their own opinion/choice though.
  • r2917r2917 Member Posts: 67
    Interesting you say it is way off the mark with respect to noise compared to those 3 cars yet Car & Driver has tested the A6, RL and the 530 and surprise surprise, the RL had the lowest sound levels at idle, full throttle and 70mph cruising. For a car that "missed the mark" with respect to noise it sure did well based on sound meter testing:)

    I can only guess the tires on the RL are the culprit of the road noise that bugged you and would guess with other tires the level of road noise would decrease.

    Personally I found the car's noise level fine when I test drove it and I come from 10 years of driving Lexuses, including extensive time in the LS430. While the RL is not LS quiet (for 20-30 grand less I don't expect it to be) it seemed fine to me.
  • r2917r2917 Member Posts: 67
    Interesting you say it is way off the mark with respect to noise compared to those 3 cars yet Car & Driver has tested the A6, RL and the 530 and surprise surprise, the RL had the lowest sound levels at idle, full throttle and 70mph cruising. For a car that "missed the mark" with respect to noise it sure did well based on sound meter testing:)

    I can only guess the tires on the RL are the culprit of the road noise that bugged you and would guess with other tires the level of road noise would decrease.

    Personally I found the car's noise level fine when I test drove it and I come from 10 years of driving Lexuses, including extensive time in the LS430. While the RL is not LS quiet (for 20-30 grand less I don't expect it to be) it seemed fine to me.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    Congratulations.

    BTW, were the road conditions similar when you test drove these vehicles? That can make a difference between noise that you hear on the inside. I suspect C&D or other automotive sources follow most of a set route for road/track tests so comparisons from them are far better evaluation than driving under different conditions. We should see comparisons of these cars sometime soon, even better way to "compare".

    From the looks of it (C&D review), Acura RL may end up in C&D's 10 Best this time around. Either RSX (likely) or TSX will have to be displaced though (since a brand gets to keep up to two models).
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    After driving an RL a few weeks ago and riding in my marketing directors E320 CDI, I'd agree with your assessment that the E320 is a quieter car, even with the CDI engine.

    My impression is that a significant amount of the difference is in the tires (lower profile on the RL) and tighter suspension on the RL. I suspect you would have found a 530i "sport package" or 545i 6-speed to be noisier than the standard 5 series as well.

    Not to beat a dead horse, but it appears that the RL doesn't quite meet the preferences of "enthusiasts" like me who are looking for a premium sport sedan, nor the preferences of someone like you that is seeking a premium luxury sedan. It does the middle fairly well; we'll just have to see how that plays out in the marketplace.

    P.S. My small hometown Acura dealer is not currently stocking RL's. They are only ordering them upon demand. They did however, have in stock an AMG C55, E55 and two SLK's on their Mercedes side. Interesting.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    The sales seem to be relatively brisk for the new RL. Acura sold 1941 units in November, after a quick start in October (went on sale Oct 14).
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    I think the jury will be out on how successful the new RL will be, at least until after the first year. The outgoing RL was such a tired dog that Acura could have rebadged a Chevy Malibu Maxx and experienced a spike in sales.
  • cove148cove148 Member Posts: 117
    Wonder if that is North American sales? If so how many sold in Canada?
  • jjacurajjacura Member Posts: 807
    >>>"Not to beat a dead horse, but it appears that the RL doesn't quite meet the preferences of "enthusiasts" like me who are looking for a premium sport sedan, nor the preferences of someone like you that is seeking a premium luxury sedan. It does the middle fairly well; we'll just have to see how that plays out in the marketplace."<<<

    It's apparent you are "Beating a Dead Horse" with a lot of personal supposition in this post.
  • y2ktonyy2ktony Member Posts: 8
    r2917,

    I understand what you are saying about the MB models all looking alike, but that's the reason I leased the E320. I love the look of ALL of the Mercedes models (C, E and S class). Classic, elegant and instantly recognizable as a Mercedes. It is a look that is unique to Mercedes. The Acura's, however, look bland and too much like many other cars on the road, including the Honda Civic and Accord. If the Acura line had more unique styling, I would have considered it more carefully. I feel the same about the Lexus models as well. The Lexus ES330 looks just like a Camry, with a few extra gadgets. Surely they could have designed something more interesting. And the LS430, a car that no one would disagree has the best ride out there, looks like a big Toyota Avalon. ZZZZZZZ!

    Here in the US, there isn't nearly the same price difference as in Canada. If I were purchasing a car in Canada, I don't know if I could justify the extra $$$ for the Mercedes.

    Tony
  • y2ktonyy2ktony Member Posts: 8
    robertsmx,

    The road conditions for the BMW and Acura were exactly the same (the dealers are next door to each other). In addition, the conditions for these two cars were much more favorable (newly paved highway that was smooth as butter). The Mercedes had the worst conditions -- a very old, rough road with many bumps, potholes and several sets of railroad tracks. The Mercedes still had the best ride, not only due to the lower road noise, but also in terms of the way it absorbed large bumps without impacting the cabin. In the Acura, the few bumps I hit were not large, yet they were still felt as large impacts. Very unsettling and disappointing for a luxury sedan.

    The noise levels measured by Car and Driver in these cars is only based on certain frequency levels. In the Acura you also "felt" the road noise in terms of the way the road negatively affected the ride. Hard to describe, but I'm sure some of you know exactly what I mean. It's the same with audio equipment. Reviews of audio equipment measure signal to noise ratios, watts per channel, etc., but no two brands sound the same. Two amplifiers with the exact same specs can sound very different. Same holds true for sound levels measured in cars.

    Tony
  • larry6larry6 Member Posts: 26
    Hi Folks,

       I have been following this forum for the past several weeks as well as the consumer rating page accessible from the Edmunds' Home Page. So far there have been only 12 owners who completed the rating of the 05 RL. Eleven of these provide outstanding ratings for the 05 RL while 1 rater was quite negative. Meanwhile, so many of you have been writing about how much you enjoy the new RL...I have been curious as to why so many of you have not completed the Consumer rating page (which does not appear to have changed for the past two weeks). At the moment, with the 12 reviews.... Consumers are rating it an average of 8.8. Too bad Edmunds does not also publish the median rating (i.e., 50% of the ratings are above the median score and 50% below this score). With only a few ratings, one severely negative score (or of course a severely positive score) can easily skew the ratings in one direction or the other. So those of you who love or hate your 05 RL can take advantage of a wonderful opportunity to quantiatively (there is also room for comments) express your opinion in a fashion that can be easily aggregated so as to better inform others -- of owner opinion. I would hope that many of us -- would take advantage of this opportunity to be helpful to others who are considering purchasing the 05 RL. Of course, should I purchase this vehicle - over which I am currently lusting... I promise to follow my own advice in terms of the ratings.... So, if you are interested in this process -- go to NEW CARS...find the Acura 05 RL.... and look around for the opportunity to offer your own rating...as well as read the ratings of others. Happy trails.
  • bvteshbvtesh Member Posts: 8
    I would take consumer ratings with a pinch of salt - any buyer would want to rate their their new car purchase as good even if actual experience, post-purchase, is otherwise. Negative ratings will drive down the resale value of a new model faster than anticipated. I would go with expert ratings.

    BTW, I did attend a launch party for the RL at a nearby dealership. My observations 1. Tight rear seats 2. Poor brakes (drove one) - Hondas generally come out poor in brake tests and quality of pads - Accords, Odysseys and TLs in their respective peer groups. Wonder whay Honda is not paying much attention to this shortcoming.

    Overall, the RL is a good car with plenty of electronics packed into it. However, I expect other manufacturers to follow with these soon. The RL will enjoy sales at or near sticker in its first year - once newer models of the Lexus GS series, the new BMW 3 series (yes 3, not the 5 series) come out, this RL will soon fade away. Honda has not done a good job in assessing the marketplace for this car. Given the TL's 270 hp engine and its torque problems in a FWD, perhaps the TL needed an AWD as an option (a la E 320, BMW 3 series). By building this RL, growth potential for the TL is limited, and the Accord is right behind it in hp and other capabilities. The RL should have been a 8 cylinder with RWD and AWD as an option!
  • jrock65jrock65 Member Posts: 1,371
    I doubt the new 3 will take many sales away from the RL. Very different in terms of cost, room, size and purpose. The majority of 3 sales come from the $35,000 325i.

    The new 3 will undoubtedly take some sales from the TL, however.
  • r2917r2917 Member Posts: 67
    Gotcha. As long as you know the E class isn't unique since it looks like every other MB sedan.

    I totally disagree with your opinion about the RL and the Lexus models. I have no idea how anyone could say the ES looks like a camry and the LS looks like an Avalon. I mean, the ES looks nothing like the Camry. Also, I find the RL looks very nice as does everyone I know who has seen the car in person, meaning family/friends and the people looking at the car at the dealerships I went to.

    For me personally, I gives thumbs up to car companies that try out different styles (Lexus) with their cars rather than companies who use a cookie-cutter design for all models. I do think MBs looks nice and USED to think BMWs look nice but the fact each model in the lineup looked almost identical always bugged me and that issue has turned me off those cars, not to mention I value reliability over styling.
     
    As for the price difference, I priced the E320 4Matic at MB's USA web site with similar equipment to the RL and the price came to 65 grand, a difference of 15 grand. Pretty much the same as the RL vs 320 4Matic difference here in Canada so it is hardly closer in value there in the USA.

    I find it sad for a car that bases at the price the E320 does you don't even get a standard 6 CD changer among other features standard in cars costing less. Seems like nickel and diming to me but I geuss that is the MB motto. I find it somewhat sad you need to put in 15 grand worth of features to egt it comparibly equipped to the RL. To me, these things are what make luxury cars, more so than the road noise.
     
    To each their own though.
  • r2917r2917 Member Posts: 67
    OK what is up with people saying the back seat is cramped in the RL? I mean I would understand this if they are comparing it to something like an A8L but people say it is cramped compared to the 5 series, E Class and also the A6. I looked at the specs for each model and the RL has more legroom than both the E class and 5 series (not by much though) and is a measily 0.6" behind the A6.

    How come then it gets criticized for its rear seat? Is it the headroom (the RL has less headroom than those 3 models in the rear) or does Acura just measure the legroom in a funky way?

    I am not trying to argue that people are wrong for saying this...I am mearly trying to find out why they fele that way since the measurements dont seem to point towards the criticism.

    FWIW I sat in the back of the RL and felt the room was fine for my 6'1" body.

    Rob
  • hnormanhnorman Member Posts: 4
    Where do you find sales data on individual car models?

    Howard
  • bvteshbvtesh Member Posts: 8
    The new 3 series will have the same interior dimensions as the old 5 series (or the new RL - I tried sitting in the rear seat of one), per BMW development boss Burkhard Goeschel (Autoweek). With 255 hp in the 330 and a turbocharged version at 330 hp, and then a M3 - the 3 series will be a serious sports sedan. Also, with AWD as an option on the base 330i, and a vehicle weighing about 700 lbs less than a RL, plus a $ 5 K cost difference comparably equipped, the RL will see the 3 series as serious competition, even if the folks at Honda think the 5 series and the E 320 should be its benchmarks.

    The 3 series is moving up the value chain to make way for the 1 series - the 5 series will have to move closer to the 7, to survive. I bought an Acura back in 1986 and have had 2 more since then, but this RL does not cut it.
  • bvteshbvtesh Member Posts: 8
    Howard, try Automotive News, a weekly - they are meant for industry folks, but plenty of useful info. on sales by model / incentives, future models, which many web sites do not provide
  • hnormanhnorman Member Posts: 4
    Thank you.

    Howard
  • bvteshbvtesh Member Posts: 8
    I would take consumer ratings with a pinch of salt - any buyer would want to rate their their new car purchase as good even if actual experience, post-purchase, is otherwise. Negative ratings will drive down the resale value of a new model faster than anticipated. I would go with expert ratings.

    BTW, I did attend a launch party for the RL at a nearby dealership. My observations 1. Tight rear seats 2. Poor brakes (drove one) - Hondas generally come out poor in brake tests and quality of pads - Accords, Odysseys and TLs in their respective peer groups. Wonder whay Honda is not paying much attention to this shortcoming.

    Overall, the RL is a good car with plenty of electronics packed into it. However, I expect other manufacturers to follow with these soon. The RL will enjoy sales at or near sticker in its first year - once newer models of the Lexus GS series, the new BMW 3 series (yes 3, not the 5 series) come out, this RL will soon fade away. Honda has not done a good job in assessing the marketplace for this car. Given the TL's 270 hp engine and its torque problems in a FWD, perhaps the TL needed an AWD as an option (a la E 320, BMW 3 series). By building this RL, growth potential for the TL is limited, and the Accord is right behind it in hp and other capabilities. The RL should have been a 8 cylinder with RWD and AWD as an option!
  • amarasingheamarasinghe Member Posts: 3
    After driving the car for a month here are my suggestions to improve the driving experience. These are all minor (hopefully Acura PM&#146;s are reading this):

    1) Ability to turn off the buzzer under the auto mode when the headlights are on and the engine is turned off.
    2) Ability to get the car to automatically lock-up when all the Key FOBs leave the car.
    3) Better integration of HandsFree, Center Console and NAV. Currently there are three input modes (voice only for HandsFree, restricted menus in Center Console and GUI in NAV). All setup should be available from the NAV.
    4) Single voice command interface (now three: HandsFree, NAV and OnStar)
    5) A voice command button accessible to the passenger (for NAV and HandsFree)
    6) Ability to jump from joystick input to voice command when entering an address (from selecting letter by letter to speaking the address)
    7) Use of traffic information in finding the fastest route (add an additional mode)
    8) Ability to add roads and short cuts to the NAV database. A &#147;learning mode&#148; to learn my way to a destination (it always gives an inconvenient route home).
    9) Backup Camera or all around parking sensors on the NAV screen
    10) A better trip computer (with overall information for the history of the car&#146;s life, resettable for a trip, for the current trip and from last gas change)
    11) A HandsFree that will work with more Bluetooth phones (add a few other profiles like the headset profile)
    12) A rain sensing wipers and perhaps a rain sensing auto sunroof closer
    13) 8 way passenger seat
    14) A better cruise control (laser guided, constant distance from the front car)
    15) A listing of XM channels (and current songs) on the NAV display
    16) Ability to program a sequence of XM stations, CD tracks etc. to rotate over with the Mode button on the steering wheel.
  • jrock65jrock65 Member Posts: 1,371
    The current RL has more room than the current 5, and the new 3 will not have more room than the current 5.

    The 3 is a more sporty, tossable vehicle, while the RL is more of a luxury cruiser with some sporting characteristics. Caters to different markets. A $50k M3 or turbocharged 3 is not in the same class as the RL even though they are similar in price.

    I'm sure there will be SOME people who cross-shop the two vehicles, but not in any numbers to make a significant impact on the sales of either.
  • y2ktonyy2ktony Member Posts: 8
    r2917,

    Perhaps it's me, but I find the exterior of the Acura and Lexus sedans to be too much of a boring, cookie-cutter design (except perhaps for the Lexus GS). I agree that all of the MB models look the same, but it's a look different from any other car manufacturer. The Acura and Lexus models really don't have any unique and interesting exterior characteristics. Is there anyone out there who thinks the exteriors of the Lexus ES330 or Lexus LS430 are unique and interesting? I find them downright boring.

    Let me bring this into perspective. A neighbor of mine (62 years old) decided that she wanted to replace her 6 year old Lexus ES300. She LOVED that car. I can't even begin to tell you how much she loved it. Well, she went to the Lexus dealer last month and said she just couldn't buy the ES330. Too boring and, her exact words, "ugly as sin". This coming from a 62 year old! She ended up with an Infiniti FX. Why? Because it's different from other cars out there. She absolutely loves driving it because it is so different. She said she smiles every time she gets into it because she thinks it's, again in her own words, "adorable". I can't imagine anyone saying that about the ES330 or LS430. It's the same reason I went with the E320. I just love the look of the car. It didn't matter that it was a Mercedes -- I just fell in love with the interior and exterior. From any angle. Period. And no one will mistake the E320 for a Honda Accord or Toyota Camry. The E320 may not be unique within the Mercedes line-up, but it is certainly unique when compared with cars built by other manufacturers. The fact that the E320 looks like an S430 is fine with me! :)

    Tony
  • larry6larry6 Member Posts: 26
    Indeed, these consumer ratings could be taken with a grain of salt...asuming a purchaser would provide ratings that were less than an honest appraisal and based primarily on econonic self-interest. While this is certainly possible, this particular flaw holds for all other vehicles that are rated as well. Indeed, even the qualitative contributions by owners to this forum may have this same potential weakness, yet it does not disuade us from reading the posts and participating ourselves. Thus, recognizing this limitation, I would still urge owners to participate in the ratings. At least these provide some aggregated, quantitative summary of their initial impressions. Those who wish to ignore them are free to do so.
  • jjacurajjacura Member Posts: 807
    >>"She ended up with an Infiniti FX. Why? Because it's different from other cars out there."<<

    I chuckled over your story because your neighbor went to an EXTREME 180 degree direction by selecting an SUV...

    >>"She absolutely loves driving it because it is so different. She said she smiles every time she gets into it because she thinks it's, again in her own words, "adorable"."<<

    I absolutely agree with her decision to follow her heart...that's the bottom line and worked for me with the new RL!
  • r2917r2917 Member Posts: 67
    I like the styling of the LS430 and think the ES330 styling is fine. I don't see how the MB styling can be seen as exciting. Again, I like the look but I don't get how it is exciting. It's as "boring" to me as pretty much all other sedans.

    I prefer the look of the LS430 to any MB sedan. As for the RL, I think it looks better than the E Class. Just MY OPINION of course.

    Guess we just have different tastes which is expected. I should mention for the most part I don't even care what my car on the outside looks like...it isn't where I will spend most of my time with the car and I have no need or desire to try and impress others who watch me drive by. I much prefer what the car has inside and its reliability. What good is a "hot" looking car if it is over priced and in the shop all the time? Seems like a sucker deal to me. It's like a car company saying

    "hey consumer, pay us more for our cars that have less reliability and less features than our competitors but hey, they look nice!!"

    Don't see why a person would want to do that but I guess many do! I liken it to being with an attractive woman who can gets you looks while in public but has no personality and is an airhead that can't be counted on and is high priced to be with. Sorry but I'll take an avg looking woman who I can count on, has a great personality, is intelligent and is low priced (not needing expensive gifts) to be with
    over that hot looking girl any day of the week.:)

    To each their own. I'll stick with my "boring" looking reliable Lexus and Acura cars.:)
  • r2917r2917 Member Posts: 67
    Why should the RL have been a V8? I can see having a V8 as an option but don't think it should have been V8 only. I have NO NEED for a V8 in my car other than to maybe "brag" about it.

    People seem to have a hard time grapsing the fact the RL is not supposed to be the be-all, end-all sedan and battle every sedan out there, meaning ultra luxury sedans. Why people complain about the engine of the car is beyond me. Do the same people complain about the engine of the E320 or BMW 530? I doubt it.

    And the TL is not intended to be a E320 competitor. I can only guess that by thinking that you put the RL in the category of ultra luxury sedans with the LS430, S class, 7 series, A8, etc. Give me a break. Why do this? It is clear to me the RL is in the class of the 5 series, E class, GS, etc. Just because it is the Acura flagship does not mean it should be compared to other flagships. If we are doing that should I compare Kia's flagship with an LS430 as well?

    Just boggles my mind why the RL gets some of the criticism (a lot of it I do find just) it does because the car is very impressive if one actually realizes what it is rather than think it should somehow be the world's super sedan.

    Show me a sedan on the market that has the features of the RL, the handling of the RL, and the luxury of the RL all for the same or lower price. The M35 and GS300 might come close but I doubt they'll beat the RL in this all around area.

    Rob
  • bseidenbseiden Member Posts: 1
    The DVD does not read the title or the tracks
    of the CD. I have used old CDs and DVD Audio CDs
    to no avail. HELP!
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    You can use autosite.com to get the information, but sometimes it doesn't get timely updates (monthly). The RL numbers I posted are from hondanews.com.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    If I had to rank european brands based on cookie cutter styling, MB would rank on top. The only thing that really stands out in a typical Benz is the grill. Audi, would fit at the other end of the spectrum. If I were to pick a car solely based on exterior styling, Audi/VW could be it.

    BMW has tried hard to move away from relatively docile styling but fell face first with the 7-series and to a lesser extent with the 5-series, enough to claim that 3-series will try not to follow its larger siblings.

    Acura has managed to establish a theme with TSX and TL duo, but RL strays away from it. A reason could be that it is supposed to be a flagship and that can also mean a less aggressive style for understated looks. I notice creases and kinks reduce as you move away from cheaper offerings to the higher end of the spectrum.

    The RL, IMO, received an evolutionary style from its own past, with subtle elements taken from other Acuras (of the mid-90s) like the shoulder line that wraps into the tail lamp (think 1996-1998 TL). Otherwise, a more angular/curvy/athletic 1996-2004 RL would look like the 2005 RL.

    Here are two Acuras that have very similar front ends. Take a look at them and see if you notice a difference:
    TSX
    TL

    Hint: Check out the windshield wipers.

    Things like these don&#146;t necessarily stand out, but minor details like these differentiate more expensive cars from others. This is true, inside and out and it often requires a better than normal analysis of styling. I would say, you feel the extra things that cost you a premium, you don&#146;t necessarily see them.

    As for your comment on Lexus ES330, I can agree that it looks like a Camry (shares the profile completely but with different tail lamps and fascia), but LS430 has the &#147;generic&#148; understated look deserving of a luxury sedan. Simplicity is perhaps the key to doing it well. Use Audi as an example that tends to avoid excessive curves and creases, everything is very subtle and flows together.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    I&#146;m not sure where you&#146;re getting your numbers from but current RL has the largest interior dimensions if you compare it to current 5-series, E-class and A6. A lot of people are talking (only) about rear seat space (which is still measured at 44 cu ft, BTW), but forget completely about the space front seat gets. Acura&#146;s measurements on spec sheet are biased towards front seat measurements. You get the most rear seat legroom in RL (if you care to move the front seat a little).

    And comparing 3-series to RL makes absolutely no sense to me. If you do, you&#146;re making 5-series a redundancy in BMW lineup. As far as the current 3-series goes, it is a sub-compact right now, and increase in interior dimension could make it a compact sedan similar to Acura TSX.
  • cove148cove148 Member Posts: 117
    Rob,

    Why it should be compared to the Lexus LS430?

    In the states, if you don't need nav, and if you shop it, you can buy a new 2005 LS430 for less than an RL. Why shouldn't the top lexus be compared, when Acura prices the RL in that market?
  • sapparosapparo Member Posts: 68
    Get real some of you visitors here. Comparing a rinky dink little 3 series to the most advanced car in the mid-luxury class of today. What a joke, lets compare the S2000 to the SL500 while were at it also.

    The E class is dull driving, boring safe car design and not even a sport sedan in the RL's league. Their heavy use of unreliable, inferior to Japan electronics is one big reason why the E class, C class and S class are all on the "poor quality" problem lists as the latest C.R. survey indicates. The once strong german makes are in big trouble quality wise today, the domestic makers all have better quality then them.

    Those who remember the awesome last Legend coupe ad campaign "It's not for everyone. Nor was it meant to be." That's what the RL is.
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    robertsmx, I beg you to please go and actually sit in the backseat of the E-class and the A6 with the front seats positioned as you would have them when you're driving. You keep talking about the "numbers," but the numbers just don't "add up" when you actually sit in the cars the RL's backseat is being compared to. Regardless of what the numbers say, the RL's backseat doesn't feel as spacious or comfortable as the others; and it doesn't look it either.

    We all know you can move the front seats forward to provide more rearseat room, but who wants to be sitting on top of the steering wheel?? Did you go from driving a compact car to the RL? That's about the only way I can see someone calling it [the RL's backseat] spacious.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    E-Class had a tight rear seat when I compared it to the old RL. The new RL is better than the old RL. I have to see the new A6 in person, but from the looks of it, I wouldn&#146;t call it having an edge over the RL. That should happen sometime soon. I&#146;m more keen on front seat space and overall feel of the car though, from steering feedback to bolstering on the seats. That&#146;s where I spend 100% of my time in my car.

    As for spec sheets being misleading, we have been through it during our trunk space debate. So, I'm more than aware of the differences. And I'm used to midsize sedan (on the larger side of the spectrum), so RL is large enough for me. But I can see an issue with someone who might be moving from a full size sedan that RL is not.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    I mentioned a possibility couple of days ago that Acura RL would make it to C&D 10-Best this year, and apparently, it did! TSX and RL represent Acura in the list that I've seen.
  • disaacdisaac Member Posts: 15
    Given that the 2005 LS430 with the least expensive "required" option package comes in at about 58K as per the lexus website, I think your assertion is simply not true unless your Acura dealer in question is fleecing you for several thousand dollars and your Lexus dealer is giving you a huge deal.
  • igibanigiban Member Posts: 530
    What's wrong with Accord or Camry? Because they look so bad, or really because they are not exclusive enough? What if there's no Honda or Toyota at all, would those Acura or Lexus cars still be too common? What if MB sells economy A and B classes here like they do in Germany, and since they all look alike, would the E320 still look that good/special?

    I actually think most German luxy cars do have a edge in look department but all three major Japanese lux. lines are catching up. But if looking like Honda or Toyota is a major issue for you, then that's no easy way out other then just going with MB/BMW. See MB and BMW don't have their Honda and Toyota's counterparts to dim your prestige factor, and Acura and Lexus can't really break away from Honda and Toyota.
  • lynnminnylynnminny Member Posts: 49
    Tony,

    I hate to disagree with you, but one of the Korean car companies now makes a car with headlights that look just like the MB E320. And in my opinion you can't tell the difference between the E320 and the C series from a short distance. This is something that all the car companies seem to share right now.

    Lynnminny
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