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Acura RL

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Comments

  • jjacurajjacura Member Posts: 807
    Acura takes it cues from Honda like Lexus does from Toyota. I have Honda and Acura in my blood. Those who think the RL resembles the Accord probably have not owned both. Pictures are very deceiving. If you've owned and driven them you get the overall feel and there is an unmistakeable difference.

    Tayl0rd..(Mazda 3...Hmmmm, my wife thinks it's "cute". Looking at pictures held at a certain angle it's a wannabe, with a long way to go in reality)
  • jjacurajjacura Member Posts: 807
    Subjective stuff...but relevant to you. Probably your post would be more relevant if it was posted in Edmunds' "Luxury Performance Sedans" forum!!
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    I don't think you need to own both, or either, to judge on the looks. Even without squinting, you can see that the RL does have an Accordish profile.

    But you are right about the Mazda3, which is similar to the RL only in that it has 4 wheels, 4 doors, and a roof.
  • 00boxsters00boxsters Member Posts: 202
    You mention in both postings (6036 and 6041) that the Lexus LS430 ("a behemoth") is not in the same league as the RL. I would agree but not because of its size.

    The facts from the respective websites:

    Length Weight Wheelbase Width CargoTrunk

    RL 193.6" 3984 lb 110.2 72.1" 13.1cuft

    LS 197.4" 3990 lb 115.2 72.0" 20.2cuft

    The Lexus LS430s weight and width are nearly identical but has 1/3 more trunk space and a 5" longer wheelbase. I note the RL's less than 4" in length difference.

    Contrasting the LS as a full-sized behemoth to the RL as mid-sized ("smaller car") is flat ignorant.
  • jjacurajjacura Member Posts: 807
    ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT PICTURES? It takes it's cues from Honda but I see no Accord there. It is sculptured differently. ...and for someone who shows a lot of interest in the RL but constantly complains about the price in Canada...I don't know what to say to you. I'm sorry about that I guess. I really don't understand the why on that one!
  • barry7barry7 Member Posts: 2
    We purchased our RL a month ago and everything worked fine. We were away for two weeks and the XM radio stopped working. The dealer told us to call XM radio. After we tracked down our 8 digit radio code (not in any documentation that came with the car) the XM rep told us he would reactivate our radio. It seems that if the radio goes without a signal for a period of days, it loses its activation code. We park the car in a garage and we are away often. It seems that we will need to reactivate the XM radio every time we return. I hope this is not the case, it would make a nice feature (XM radio) a source of complete frustration. Does anyone know if there is a solution?
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    Picture, in-the-flesh, whatever you want. I'm just saying there is an Accordish profile in the RL. And that's not the RL's best side. That's all. I've said before that, IMO, the RL is not an unattractive car overall. It's not as distinctive, or as sharp-looking, as the TL, IMO, but not unattractive. It's more understated. But maybe that's appropriate given its older target market.

    And for the record, I show interest in the RL only because I'm a fan of Honda's. I have not been in the market for an RL, or anything in that class and genre. By the same token, I'm not "complaining" about the price in Canada. I'm not planning on buying one so it doesn't affect me one way or the other. I am simply commenting that I think the price is out-of-line, and may have a negative impact on RL sales in Canada.

    You don't need to say anything, or be sorry, or need to try to understand anything, other than that I'm simply an interested observer, which entitles me to comment on TH as much as an actual owner. I think that, with all due respect, you are over-analyzing and over-reacting to my comments, and getting too worked up.

    My intention is not to antagonize you, believe me. I've read most of your posts on this thread and you strike me as nothing less than a gentleman. I hope you continue to enjoy your RL, and I look forward to continue to read about your experience with it. Who knows, maybe some day I might be in the market for one.
  • hendjazhendjaz Member Posts: 155
    Acuraphile, the Verizon Wireless/Motorola v710 is a great combination as you may remember my opinion from my prior posts. The v710 upgrade has been out for a while. I had mine updated about 3+ weeks ago at a VZW store in Scottsdale while visitng there. It actually worked fine before that too but now shows the coverage and battery strength on the MID. Quality of sound through HFL is excellent. As mentioned before I would go with provider that has the best service coverage in your geographic area as there is a bluetooth phone available for each service provider. I got the RL the first month it was out and also the v710 immediately when it came out and have no regrets with either (oh well, maybe a bit more low end torque for the RL would be welcome).
  • mungoacmungoac Member Posts: 16
    The absence of signal is probably not the problem, Barry. I leave my RL under cover for a couple of weeks at a time and activation has never been the problem. I have had a couple of minor problems with XM as far as keeping the programmed stations active and keeping the traffic info in place. One went away by itself; the other went away for good (or at least two months so far) after I pulled fuse # 5 in the main INSIDE fuse box (it's located next to your left leg when you're in the driver's seat, situated precisely so that you have to struggle with the parking brake when you undertake this stunt). You reinsert the fuse after 20-30 seconds, close up the box, start up the car and check the radio functions. If that solves the problem, you're in good company among RL owners. You might also press the map, menu and cancel buttons next to the nav screen for about 5 seconds, which takes you into the car's built-in, undocumented-to-us diagnostic system. When the diagnostic screen comes up, don't change anything. But select the XM stuff and activate its various displays. One of them shows a system schematic of the whole XM/nav area. All the components should be green. If one or more appear red, make a note of which and if your dealer is on the ball, he'll be able to figure it out from there. Possibly your XM box in the trunk is the culprit and needs to be switched out. That has happened to a lot of us. Best of luck and take heart -- it's really a delightful car.
  • acuraphileacuraphile Member Posts: 131
    Hendjaz:

    The V710 would be the answer to my problem as I currently have a Verizon contract. However, Acura CR explicitly described the failings of the V710...that it drops calls....doesn't access numbers from the phone book....a whole litany of criticisms. Upon calling the local Verizon store, they knew nothing of the upgrade and very casually said, yes, it'll work well with the RL. Really hard to pin anyone down. I'm heartened by your post and I'll really nail someone down for a definitive answer. Additionally, I've got to be certain that I can identify an upgraded phone and not take the word of a salesman. Have you any literature that accompanied the phone that describes, or alludes, to the upgrade? I'm currently filling in with ONSTAR, but that's no substitute over the long term.

    Many thanks for your comprehensive response. I'm going to get right on it.
    Appreciatively,

    George
  • jjacurajjacura Member Posts: 807
    George, I did some research because I understand your situation with your contract. The following is part of a response on a Software Forum dated Jan 1, 2005 and I will give you the URL at the end:
    "Regarding your concern, Motorola is developing a new software version for the V710 cellular phone. This software patch will include the OBEX profile, and will allow full Bluetooth connectivity.
    Unfortunately we do not have an estimated time frame for the release of this software patch. We invite you to visit our Internet site at www.hellomoto.com or contact your cellular service provider in the future for information on the availability of this upgraded software version."

    http://www.v710.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-562.html
  • acuraphileacuraphile Member Posts: 131
    JJ:

    Thanks very much.
    Now I have a choice of continuing with ONSTAR for a few months knowing that a software upgrade is definitely in the works. The correspondence in the URL was dated late December, early Jan., so perhaps my patience will be rewarded in the next few months. My Verizon contract ends June 21st, I just noticed. If I'm tired of waiting at that time, i can get a different phone and change providers without penalty, although I like Verizon very much.
    Thanks, JJ. Nice forum: One for all, all for one.
    George
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    As an Acura Outsider, but admirer (love the TL, for example -- at least the way it looks, the torque steer is a put off, but that's another story), I too see the Accord in the RL. I don't exactly think of this as a slam against the RL, however. Heck, I see Audi in the face of the new VW Passat and Jetta, too; and, seeing Toyota in some Lexus cars is also, uh, "natural."

    Conversely, if you don't see the resemblance, that is OK too -- for all I know those of us that see Accord-ish overtones (or undertones) in the RL are wrong.

    I don't care one way or the other. Honda is a client of mine (so is Toyota for that matter) and when I pull into the parking lot at either one of those companies, it is normal and natural to see lots of Hondas and Acuras at the Honda facility and Lexus and Toyota at the other place.

    When you see an RL close to an Accord, they do look like they're related. But that's just me (and a couple other folks here). It's all good (mostly).
  • ljwalters1ljwalters1 Member Posts: 294
    Honda and Toyota are your clients, huh? What to you drive when you visit their worksites?
  • hendjazhendjaz Member Posts: 155
    George,
    The newly upgraded software version for the v710 is referenced in the phone now as 8700_01.40.0R. In the phone menus look under "phone info" and then "other information" for the "s/w version". I can't recall the earlier software version number but I know this is different. There are noticable changes in the phone as well so I know that the 40 minutes that it was hooked up to a computer at the VZW store definetely made some changes, including the enhanced pairing with the RL. At the larger or more prominent VZW stores there is usually a technician in the store and not just sales people so best to ask for the tech person to see if that store has the v710s with the newest software.
  • getakeygetakey Member Posts: 23
    I finally found a dealer who took the time to track down the door lock issue (continual locking while driving) and the issue with the outside mirror not returning after backing up. The dealer worked with the factory to reset some codes in the multi-function box that was replaced in the recall. That's the good news. The bad news is that the seat heater on the driver side now turns on randomly and it is warming up where I live. Anyone else have this issue?
  • jjacurajjacura Member Posts: 807
    Actually Mark drives a car that if you look at it from the side resembles a VW but in reality it is an Audi.... :-)
  • aclcaclc Member Posts: 20
    getakey,
    I had the update done 2 days ago and found that my doors would attempt to lock intermitently as I was driving. I called my dealer and he spoke to tech line and told me to disconnect the cables from the car battery and touch them to each other for 10-15 seconds. This somehow discharges the lock's control module. I did this yesterday and my locks are working fine today. The only hassle that after you reconnect the battery you have to unlock the audio system and nav system with their pins, and must reset the steering wheel automatic tilt mechanism.
  • aclcaclc Member Posts: 20
    The earler s/w version is 8700_01.30.8F and I just called my local VZW full service store and said that I could bring the phone in anytime for the upgrade.

    Hendjaz, did you have to re-pair the phone to the RL after the upgrade?
  • steven9179steven9179 Member Posts: 36
    Barry, I've owned my RL since Dec. and I've been away for 10 days at a clip---never had your experience. Suggest you get back to the dealer and maybe have a "talk" to resolve this issue. Good luck.

    Steve
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    I met with the division president of the company (my client) that makes the transmissions for Accords and I believe other Honda's -- the man speaks Japanese and Italian, only. I did have my card translated into Japanese, but I had lunch with him and his translator -- at the time, I had an Audi A8 (pearl white with 18" aluminum wheels) -- about halfway through the lunch the translator/interpreter told me the president was willing to make me an offer on an Acura RL (the old one, not the glintzy new one).

    We had an exchange, a nervous laugh and that was it. When I go to Toyota the parking lot is full of three things: Toyota/Lexus cars, Ford Tauri and lots of pick up trucks. No one has ever mentioned my clearly out of place Audi allroad.

    Since we're helping them with their ERP systems and a custom estimating program, we must be doing sufficiently OK to not merit the "eye."
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    You said it brother, but NOW the VW's are starting to have the big mouth Audi look.

    And I saw a very nice looking car this morning, when I caught up with it, I fell over -- it was an Avalon, I thought it was a new Lexus model I had never heard of, from a distance.

    The upmarket models of these European and Japanese cars do look more like each other as each new generation is developed. Heck, when I first saw the latest iteration of the Accord, I thought for a fleeting moment that it might be an Acura.

    Hopefully all of these world cars don't make the GM mistakes of the not yet forgotten past.

    Oh, one more, I vacationed in a wonderful city recently, Prague -- hop off the plane and walk through the airport and, just like here, there are new cars on display: Skoda's. As I approached them I swore they were Passats.

    Small, and getting smaller, world.
  • acuraphileacuraphile Member Posts: 131
    Mark:

    In 1931, I was six years old. My father was a mechanic/chauffeur and drove a Packard convertible sedan. He and his twin brother briefly owned a service station that they lost in short order to some hungry corporation, or so my mother had told me. I was surrounded by cars and car talk, and even as a child I became familiar with every marque that passed beneath my window. I would rest my chin on the sill and mutter: "DeSoto, Buick, Lincoln Zephyr, Diana" and never tire of the thrill that came with recognition of each marque. There was no means of mistaking one for the other; "night and day" would best desribe their individual contours. I fully understand what's taken place in the interim but CD aside, and the consequent impact on MPG, the virtual samness that pervades car design appears to be more of a safety net for the manufacturers, reflecting the fear of failure should they innovate a design that falls on its face. It's heartwarming to see a Jag pass by. I KNOW it's a Jag! I long for the sight of a Checker Motor taxi with its muscular profile. Aaaah...I think I'll rest my head on the window sill and just....hope.

    George
  • 3leggeddog3leggeddog Member Posts: 5
    Hi all -

    I'm considering an RL and was hoping to get some feedback. I'm a little concerned about the list of problems that people are reporting. I guess some of that is to be expected with a new car, but I don't have the time to keep going back to the dealer.

    I also had a few questions about the cars features:

    1) Does the navigation routing take the NavTraffic in to account when setting a route? It's hard to tell from the manual if the traffic overlay is for the driver's info only or if the nav system actually "uses" it.

    2) It seems that the list of Bluetooth phones is pretty limited. I have the LG PM-325 from Sprint. Does that one work?

    3) Does the audio system play MP3 and WMA files?

    4) Can I access my phones internal phone book using HandsFreeLink?

    The only other car I'm considering is the Infinifi M35 Sport. Does anyone have an opinion on which is a "better" car? How about with respect to all the "bugs" people are talking about in the RL?

    Thanks!
  • jmatthejmatthe Member Posts: 51
    1) the naigation system will reoute, but not necessarily using the trafffic nav input. But you set it to avoid certain types roads. Works great i any case
    2)Don't know about that phone, but I have a sony and a motorola and they both work fine.
    3)Yes
    4)No

    There have been some early minor proplems, but Acua and the dealer have them worked out. If you buy one now those updates will be built in or modified before you take it.
    Overall the car is great! Mine has 6000 miles on it...
  • hendjazhendjaz Member Posts: 155
    Aclc, I don't believe I had to re-pair the v710 with the RL as the RL automatically recognized the phone with the updated software. I did have to go through the pairing process again with the Motorola accessories such as bluetooth earpiece and speaker as well as with my laptop and pocket pc all of which communicate with the phone via bluetooth. I use the phone as a modem sometimes for the pocket pc and laptop as the access speed is faster than dial-up speeds.

    No issues with the RL though. I got the RL in October and the v710 in November and have yet to actually pick up the phone and use it while in the RL as the HFL is so easy (and safer) to use.
  • 9482494824 Member Posts: 8
    I also got my RL in October, and my V710 in November. I have updated both the RL and the V710; however, since updating I have had a problem receiving calls in my RL. I am notified when a call is coming in, but the call is lost when I try to answer. I have been told by people calling in that they can hear my radio, but not me. The problem comes and goes. Has anyone else experienced this problem?
  • hendjazhendjaz Member Posts: 155
    94824, I have updated both (RL and v710) as well but have not encountered your problem in receiving incoming calls. Everything is working fine as far as I can tell. Wonder if un-pairing (deleting) and then re-pairing would changes things for the better?
  • 9482494824 Member Posts: 8
    I have tried deleting and then pairing again. By doing so, it will work for a short period, but the problem always comes back.
  • dadcat6dadcat6 Member Posts: 3
    aclc,
    I agree that disconnecting the battery corrects the problems caused by the update that I had done 3 days ago. Instead of completely disconnecting the battery cables and shorting them together, I disconnected just the negative battery cable for a minute before reconnecting. Disconnecting just the negative cable is easier and safer. Everything seems to be OK today after taking several 20+ minute trips today with no relocking.
  • jjacurajjacura Member Posts: 807
    George, Many errands this morning and a fearsome racquetball game over the early afternoon. Just wanted to tell you how much I enjoyed reading about those old cars...by the way a "Diana"..huh. never ever heard of that one. You also said.....

    "reflecting the fear of failure should they innovate a design that falls on its face."

    How true. A friend of mine in high school drove us around in his father's '59 Edsel and you brought back that memory real quick! My girl friends mother drove her and her sister around in a Desoto so that one clicks. My grade school basketball coach drove us to nearby towns in his broken down Hudson. Remember the commercials, "Step down into a Hudson"? The boy scout leader drove a Kaiser Frazier. A lutheran minister hummed along in his Ambassador. Talk about style We called it an upside down bathtub. The grocery store owner drove a Studebaker. Most of the young highschool guys had early '50 Fords and Chevies with all kinds of modifications. Yep...there really was great variety in those years too!
  • acuraphileacuraphile Member Posts: 131
    JJ:

    My Uncle Charles had a "Diana," a product of the Moon Motor Co. It was a big gray box with two horns, one mounted on the wheel rim and the other at the hub of the wheel. The former went "AAh-ooo-gah," and was acvtivated by a tiny black button, no bigger than a shirt button.

    When I was in the Air Force in 1945, my mother sent me a brochure showing the two Kaiser cars - I still have the brochures somewhere. One model was upscale, and I believe that was called the "Frazier." They both were to retail under $2,000.I recall vividly that a new Plymouth coupe with radio and heater cost $660 right after the war. The pricing, reflecting added options and quality, went: 660, 770, 880, etc. All marques were priced in that manner for quite some time.

    As for variety: in the old days, when you made a style choice, it was REALLY a strong expression of interest because of the radical design differences!! Now, you try to weed out the least generic style.
    Fun to reminisce.

    P.S. Moon Motor Co. brochures are still available online!!
  • kacuratkacurat Member Posts: 33
    Quick question about the new RL aleady having updates. I bought mine the first week in January. Everyone spoke about receiving an update letter and I have not. Do you think mine already has the updates?
  • jjacurajjacura Member Posts: 807
    Ok back to the RL.. I still have a ways to go before the first oil change and the dealer has the parts waiting for me on those 4 updates which I will do at the same time, but I would like to hear from those that have had the first oil change and any comments regarding MPG changes if any afterwards.
  • jjacurajjacura Member Posts: 807
    Good question...I got mine in November and did not get a letter either but the dealer service manager said he will take care of it anyway.
  • shotgunshotgun Member Posts: 184
    I've had the four updates and my first oil change. Right now I've got 8,050 miles on the odo and my milage, since the update and oil change, has gone from 17mpg to 18 mpg. A very modest improvement...
  • barry7barry7 Member Posts: 2
    Thanks mungoac,

    Those hidden diagnostics are real neat. Fortunately, there was nothing wrong with my car.

    My problem was solved by a "refresh" from XM radio. While the refresh can be accomplished online, I had to endure a phone conversation with a XM representative. In addition to forcing me to listen to an advertisement for XM radio, the rep confirmed that my problem is due to an extended loss of signal. I guess it matters where you park?

    To add insult to injury, XM just mailed me a notice that my 3 Month free service was about to expire. And the XM rep pressured me to renew the 3 month free service right away, to lock in the current rates. Of course the RL comes with 12 months of free service, (I wonder if I will get an extra month for the time it did not work?). And after the hard sell, the rep reluctantly confirmed that the RL included 12 months of service.

    So my conclusion is, Yes XM is really that hard. It is a pity, because it seems like such a nice idea.
  • mungoacmungoac Member Posts: 16
    Is Cafe Europa still open, Mark?
  • jjacurajjacura Member Posts: 807
    Wow...must be a lot of satisfied RL owners out their Shotgun, as this forum has virtually slowed to a crawl.
    JJ
  • washdcguywashdcguy Member Posts: 17
    There is definitely one very satisfied owner in D.C. (me!). Not one problem with my RL since purchase, October 15th of last year. I've never owned a vehicle that did everything so well and gave me not a second's worry and zero problems. Bravo, Acura!
  • dennis721dennis721 Member Posts: 62
    I will let you know real soon, I bought mine yesterday and will be picking it up Thursday. I have test driven twice before though so I am sure I will love it.
    I got a $ 1000 discount on the car plus $406 worth of free accessories and they gave me $ 700 over Edmunds suggested trade in value on 04 TL. So however you look at it I figure in total I got a $2106 discount.
    I selected the Redondo Red Pearl with Parchment interior. I also got the deck lid spoiler. Thats why it wont be ready till Thursday.
  • jjacurajjacura Member Posts: 807
    Congratulations Dennis. One little nagging after thought. Ask them if the updates were taken care of on that car. JJ
  • shotgunshotgun Member Posts: 184
    Must be JJ...To date, I'm completely satisfied with my purchase and have absolutely no buyers remorse. However, I do find amusing the constant comparisons of the RL to V8 vehicles. Why not simply let the RL compete in the arena it was designed for, principally, the V6 arena - an arena, I might add, it completely dominates!
  • dennis721dennis721 Member Posts: 62
    I agree totally, there arent many 300 HP V6 out there and the Acura engine is so sweet. Smooth beyond belief and quiet too!

    I loved my 3.2L 04 TL, but I am really looking forward to the switch to the RL.

    People need to drive the RL before saying they think it should be a V8. Had it been a V8 I might have decided to keep my TL!!!

    I know I can afford to feed a V8, but as sweet as the 3.5L 300 HP is I just dont see the need to pay for one at the pumps.

    dennis
  • dennis721dennis721 Member Posts: 62
    JJ,

    Thanks for the thought. I called the service manager and told him I would rather wait an extra day even if needed to do any current updates prior to delivery. He is going to check and do them. Waiting on my trunk lip spoiler anyway.

    dennis
  • jjacurajjacura Member Posts: 807
    It would be difficult to have buyers remorse with this car. If you recall there was only one major problem with a buyer in this forum. The man that eventually had his car replaced by another dealer. (Can't remember his name now) Lindh? Anyway that made for some very interesting reading. I think all of us had something to say either way. You could almost be with him and against him at the same time. I'm glad the way it turned out.
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    I think you may be missing the point here. Please note I'm not bashing anything. I'm simply playing devil's advocate. I think the people making the comparisons are saying that the RL should be playing in the "arena" populated by V8's. And to play in there, the RL is not properly armed. How do you know the RL was not designed principally for the V8 arena? Acura never came out and made that statement. And I don't know if it matters that it dominates the V6 arena. Heck, it annihilates the I4 arena! Would that be relevant? And furthermore, I'm not even sure you can say with certainty that it "dominates" the V6 arena. In what aspects? Luxury, techno, performance, prestige, all of the above? Is the M35 comparable? Maybe. How about the BMW 530? Next year it's going to have 255hp, and would likely match, if not exceed, the RL's performance. Or how about the 2006 330? I think that would likely run rings around the RL. Or the new GS from Lexus? That would more than match the RL in luxury and prestige, if not performance. And so on, and so on.

    The point is, when you aspire to play on this level, I don't think it is so much as whether it "needs" this or that. Is more a matter of you've got to have the right credentials if you want to run in the same circle.
  • jjacurajjacura Member Posts: 807
    Bodble2, My first reaction was to go after you but in our home my wife and I share the same phone line and she had to make a couple calls. One hour later I have re-read your post and quieted down. You make a point that some people feel the RL SHOULD be playing in that Arena. The fact that Acura chose not to build using a V-8 may prove to be right or wrong. In the long run the owners will save some gas, and by the feedback we get in here there are a huge majority of satisfied owners. One comment that I WILL make is that you brought 2006 cars into the comparison mix. That's unfair but I think you really enjoy getting into these discussions. What are you driving these days?
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    You're probably right that the 2006 should not be brought into the mix -- until next year. But AS I SAID BEFORE, you're getting way too defensive over this issue. As I have told you, the RL is a fine car. You can't go wrong buying one. I'm sure you'll be happy with it for years to come. BUT, please be advised that it is NOT God's gift to the automotive industry, so you don't have to get upset anytime anyone DARES to bring another car into the discussion. This is what this forum is all about -- so anybody with a legitimate opinion can voice it. You can agree with it, or disagree with it. It doesn't matter to me. And yes, I do enjoy these discussions. Don't we all? Otherwise I wouldn't be here slacking off from work. And I don't think it is relevant what I drive. Would it make you agree with me more if I told you my daily driver is a BMW M5 and for weekend getaways I use my SL55 AMG? I may not have one, or both of those, but why does it matter? This is not a mine-is-bigger-than-yours discussion.

    BTW, I think you should re-read my post, again. I don't think I said that it is MY OPINION that the TL SHOULD be playing in the V8 arena.
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    "My first reaction was to go after you but in our home my wife and I share the same phone line"

    Wait a minute, you're going after me on a dial-up?! Isn't that like....how should I say it....a V6 going up against a V8? :)

    jj, my friend, you have gotta lighten up. Aren't people in retirement supposed to lead a sedate lifestyle? Too much anger will ruin your golf game. :)

    Happy motoring!
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