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But personal taste is what picking a car is all about. Enjoy your Avalon. I hope you have many happy years with the car. It's just not an automobile I'd ever drive, let alone purchase.
Essentially, a hybrid benefits the ecology but damages the pocketbook. If Acura was to turn out a hybrid luxury performance sedan, imagine the implied cost. You and I particularly, would desire the new technology package, the cost of which, in combination with the added hybrid technology, would by 2011 no doubt exceed $65K or even $70K. Conceivable? The added MPG savings would recede far into the background, ground to dust by the enormity of the 2011 price.
Having concern for the ecology is laudable, but in consideration of the price of fuel and the cost of going hybrid, there woiuld be no $$$ saved, IMHO.
One thing is certain: if Acura went to a Luxury Performance V-8, rhe CD writer would probably write: "So, why no hybrid?"
Thanks for the reminder ...my thinking was .....pennywise and dollar foolish! :sick:
Jake
You are selling yourself short by going with Avalon...poor decision while maintaining brand loyalty.
BTW...which Acura did you own to have established your customer service viewpoint? Enjoy the Toyota dealership care experience which is surely as fine as Lexus.
1) I disagree with your analogy about owning an RL and going to an LS 430 forum. An RL and LS are really not comparable. Different features and buyers. Same reason I wouldn't compare my LS to an S class or 7 Series (different prestige levels and buyer needs). Like it or not, the RL is much more comparable to the Avalon Ltd. than to an LS430. The cost difference between an Avalon Ltd. and RL is only about $10k - this is less than many option packages in the V-8 luxury class.
2) You can make this about money (ie, settling for a TL or Avalon) but that really isnt the point. If Honda were to make an Accord that is faster, roomier and similarly equipped to the RL, the RL wouldn't be a better car just because it cost twice as much. I don't understand your Bluetooth comment. You can buy an $18k car with BT- hopefully this single feature doesn't define your car or your buying experience. Even Car & Driver admits that the $49k RL msrp is higher than they would expect for similarly equipped v-6 cars.
3) The subject matter in the forum relates to Dealer Service - which is exactly the context of my last post. I had every intention of buying an RL a month ago, it is a FINE car, BUT, if based on multiple trips to the Acura dealer I am underwhelmed by their experience, courtousy, and technical knowledge -- I'm not going to buy a car from them just to find out for sure that the dealer is not so good!!
I didnt care for the features of the Avalon Touring or LX, but the Avalon Limited model is remarkably similar to my LS (absent fewer pieces of wood trim and maybe a couple extreme Lexus features like the power back seat messagers and fridge in my LS). I conclued owning another loaded LS at $65k wasn't prudent for a few extra bells or as a second car. And, ES really reminds me of Camary (not to imply in any way that Camary is a bad car).
See earlier comments as to Acura dealership service. No need to repeat poor experiences. (sales is acutally part of customer service last I checked)
As far as the comment about Toyota dealership care being as fine as Lexus, I agree that you get what you pay for but I am willing to give up the free Starbucks at the Acura and Lexus dealerships for my 2nd car. The $9k that I saved from not buying the RL will buy me 5,625 cups of Starbucks (tall, black coffee at $1.60 per cup) OR 450 hand car washes (@$20 a pop) - but I guess that's not a fair comparison since the Acura dealer near me doesn' hand wash anymore anyway. (Lexus does!)
Uniformity and absolutism are rare commodities in our environment.
I have owned nothing but Honda products since 1966, when I bought my first Honda motorcycle. That was followed by three succeeding bikes, three Accords, one Legend, and three RLs. Contrary to your presumption, (anticipating poor service based upon some level of inquiry that didn't ring of intense scrutiny), I have had nothing but the best experience with the three Honda/Acura dealerships involved in my past purchases. What would have led me back continually for thirty nine Honda/Acura years if my experience hadn't been in such sharp contrast to what I had received from other manufacturers over the years? To be honest, I've never found a car salesman, regardless of what badge he represented, who knew a damned thing about cars. I walked into my Acura dealership prepared to discuss nothing but price and delivery; I had already learned what was necessary. However, the service managers and mechanics have been nothing but outstanding.
Now, having said all that, can one stumble into an Acura dealership and be treated poorly by witless, uninformed service managers and technicians? You bet yer boots!
But back to my opening line: there are no absolutes, and it's obvious that Darwin didn't assure us of the Survival of the Fittest, but rather, sprinkled in a strata of aimless, incompetent, inconsiderate cretons just to keep us on our toes.
"BUT, if based on multiple trips to the Acura dealer I am underwhelmed by their experience, courtousy, and technical knowledge -"
I don't mean to sound contentious, but what knowledge, precisely, did multiple trips yield? Were the salesmen rude or uninformative? Did the Service Managers respond poorly to well directed questions by you? In fact, what credentials do you bring to your questions that produce such negative impressions. I'm just fearful that hyperbole sometimes plays a hand, and is the Viagra of cynicism.
I regret that you can't envision sharing the fine expeience I've had being a satisfied Acuraphile.
I continue to encourage everyone to seek other opinions as well. ... Sorry my dears, I don't have time for such hypocrisy and self-righteousness.
I'm not the one who claimed that CR's automotive engineers also worked in the dishwashing detergent lab. I could care less what anyone's opinion of CR is, but I do care about facts. And anyone who thinks CR evaluates cars by the same folks who evaluates soap IS deluded. Clearly you have an agenda against CR and that is fine, as long as you are honest about it.
FWIW: I never claimed that CR was any "god", nor have I recommended folks rush out to buy their recommended cars. I do claim that CR is a credible source of information and whose automotive reviews are just as "worthy" as other sources of information (e.g. Edmunds).
Why is CR useful for "household products" when evaluated by "household product" experts, but CR automobile reviews are "laughable" when evaluated by automotive engineers? :confuse: Why are household product (e.g. washing machines) frequency of repair records useful, but car frequency of repair records not useful? Are JD Powers reliablity studies useful? Are their checkoff lists more acurate than CR's?
How is Car and Driver (or Automobile) Magazine's evaluations any more objective that CR's?? :confuse: C&D gets free use of "conditioned" vehicles to evaluate, whereas CR goes to the dealership and buys one off the lot.
I am not here to defend CR. I am here to research cars (I may buy one soon). I really would like an answer to my question! WHY should I trust Car & Driver (or Automobile, Road & Track, Edmunds, etc) any more than CR?
First impressions go a long way, however, and I have been buying luxury cars for over 20 years and know when a salesperson doesn't know what they are talking about.
If I really liked the RL after I test drove twice- you are right I probably would have gone to another dealership and hopefully had a better experience.
The salespeople werent rude, they just werent very smart about the car's controls and operations (particularly during my 2nd test drive). On my first visit a different salesperson spent the entire time telling me how Acura is so much better than Lexus - which really wasnt helpful or very professional. Maybe my expectation was too high. Not knowing how to demonstate the Nav system is a pretty fundamental flaw in this price range. Lastly the service manager gave all kinds of excuses/caveats when I asked about loaner cars that didn't impress me. At lexus if I pull up and if they dont have a loaner, they take a car off the lot to drive with out question (even when i dont have an appointment such as oil change).
By the way, my response is only to the others in the forum that have experienced dealer problems too. I'm not here to Acura bash.
My Acura dealer hand washes the car at service time and the Starbucks flows but the service is exceptional before and after the sale. The free loaners are brand new TL's...fun cars to drive.
If you want gadgets, the RL. If you want full sized ride, the LS. If you want speed and a smaller car, the IS. It's pretty simple IMHO.
Also, Bluetooth is such a great feature that could preclude the older LS. Side impact airbags, latch system, XM could also be an issue to you.
There's no arguing about the LS being a great lux car, but not as much fun to drive. The IS may be pretty fun to drive (can't say as it's not out) but very likely won't have the interior of the other 2 cars...
Good luck.
I never said its household product reports were any more useful than it automotive frequency of repair records. I did say that unlike other organizations (you mentioned JD Powers; there are others as well), CR conducts surveys of its own readers only. This is bound to reinforce the opinions of the CR faithful, but not necessary that of the public at large. (It's also one reason CR's surveys often differ from those of other organizations.)
I cannot tell you that Car & Driver's opinions are more "objective" than those of CR's. (There may also be editors at Car & Driver who "ride herd" on the eventual outcomes of tests conducted by that magazine.) But C & D, Road & Track, and others have access to more equipment, more seasoned experts, more professional drivers and engineers, and more varieties of automobiles than CR. They often have more funds for testing, both short term and long term (often for more than one year). Further, such auto enthusiast publications have proffered the safety and sensibility of a well handling automobile for decades. CR came very late to that party and to this day, sometimes recommends automobiles that have sloppy responses.
As to the "conditioned" cars that are given to auto mags, many times these are prototypes or even pre-assembly versions. And often they are sharply criticized for fit and finish (at least as often as you will find in CR). Plus, when comparisons are done in Car & Driver, for example, you usually get the separate opinions of several different drivers in addition to the main review. (Not the one size fits all, boiled-down-to-a-single-opinion that appears so often in CR.)
CR would like you to view it as a jack of all trades. And its subscribers have to view it as a good source of information most of the time, otherwise it would go out of business. (I subscribe too, but certainly not for its auto reviews.) Unfortunately, it cannot be an expert on all matters with the limited resouces it commands. It must make compromises. And those are big compromises when it comes to expensive items like cars and little or no compromises when it comes to less costly items like dishwasher detergent.
But it's your money. And you'll be the one investing it in an automobile that you hope and expect to last you for years. Research your candidates thoroughly and test drive each of them—more than once if necessary. That's really the only way to be sure you're making the right choice for you.
(SPARE TIRE) CR is wrong because the RL comes equipped with a compact T155/70D17 110M Spare Tire. (and is also Verified in the owners manual)
You will be getting a great car in the RL. Good Luck!
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=106555
I also recall that no one thought they should have to pay for an updated one so soon. The next thing I remember seeing was that several owners received their updated disks in the mail. Could you please let me know if you received the disk as a courtesy of Acura or Alpine Navigation? Or, did you have to pay for it?
I'm asking because I specifically mentioned that as we were buying the car and the salesman told me we would have the latest disk in our car. Today, I checked the system info and it tells me we have database 20041210, verson 1.10.00.
I believe this is definitely last years as the Acura website states the current one is 4.13.
Can anyone please help before I call or go to the dealership tomorrow. Thanks
for any info.
By the way, the car is one big toy! It's great!
Also, I read in one message that you cannot just check the system info, that you need to eject the disk in the trunk. I have now looked at the disk and it is 4.13, so all's well.
Even our cell phones paired easily and seem to work well - no problems on either end of the calls. They're Sony Ericsson T637's.
The ride is even much smoother than our demo car. I intended to keep this car only until the warranty ended, but it may be difficult to let it go!
Maybe Pat is still cruising through occasionally?
This is somewhat RL related and I hope it's okay to say it here because it's for the common good.
Since we now have an XM subscription with the new car, I was looking at the website. With the subscription for the vehicle, we are entitled to access XM online at no cost. I haven't seen anyone mention that and just wanted to pass it on to anyone who might be interested. You can't spend all of your time in the RL!
Heads up folks. If your 3 month trial subscription is expiring...do not pay full boat retail price of $13. If you get a call from the XM telemarketers...tell them it is too much and you want the promotion price. The promotion price is $77 for 12 months...$6.42 a month. Believe it is called the 'winback' program.
What are everyone's thoughts on XM?
Yes, XM Online is available during the 1-year (not 3-month) trial subscription. My only disappointment - I can't listen to it at work. Somehow, XM Online doesn't work with my network here.
What are everyone's thoughts on XM?
I love XM. I almost never listen to my CDs anymore. There's just too much variety on XM to limit myself to my library of CDs.
I like xm...but not going to renew it in my car...only in my wife's car. Wife and kid like the variety and ability to see song titles and artists. My cd library is broad enough to where I can burn a mix cd and load up the cd changer.
I received a Polk Audio XM Tuner as a gift, accompanied by a pre-paid 1 year subscription. I now understand from XM that I will be charged $6 a month for the in-home tuner, so long as I maintain my RL subscription, whatever that price turns out to be after the free period ends.I have to negotiate this carefully as my RL free subscription ends in December and the in-home will expire in Juine.
Oh, Lord, where is my old crystal set and headphones!!!
I never heard of this process before. I'd appreciate it if you'd elaborate a bit.How expensive is expensive? This sounds like a hot application, or the like - an applique, perhaps.I'd love to protect my bumper - the shabbiness created by those eventual chips detracts from the most highly polished, and otherwise "babied," car.
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Many thanks for the info. I might have gone for it at the time of purchase when I was feeling loose and excited. Now, $600 + install is out of the question.So far, no chips!
George
As for the rear bumper paint to be soft and to chip...most likely the paint will chip is someone hits you or you scrap it. If the center of the rear bumper got a chip...it is clear something hit it.
Look on the road and you will find that the Acura paint holds up very well and has lustre.
I am seriously considering an RL, especially with the prices right now.
As I shop I am hoping for a little help,
1. What is the IPod intergration process? Goes Acura offer an in dealer intergration that could be done under the contract of a lease?
2. How comfortable is the drivers seat in commuter driving?
Thanks,
djocks
(Drivers seat) Outstanding comfort. I am 6 ft and have some lower and upper back issues after many years on the racquetball court and a fall so the seat is paramount in the car I drive daily. This RL seat is the most comfortable for me because not only is it reinforced well and have 8 way adjustment it includes an electric lumbar adjustment that supports better than any previous car I have driven. Perfect for the commute and even better for those long hauls over road. The upper headrest is unigue in that you can custom adjust it to come up under as well as behind the head. also be aware of a little trick I picked up along the way...for those pesky tailgaters at night with their brights on just touch the electronic rear window shade to rid yourself the the irritating glare. The RL is a great car.
JJ
(LMBRL)
I just put a call into Acura Headquarters, they seem to get the job done whenever I call them..
Anyone else have this happen to them??