Pontiac Bonneville

mfahey1 · September 2002

This was a topic of discussion a few months ago. I was one who had never heard mine run but finally one day in the garage when it was quiet and I was loading something heavy into the trunk, I heard it and even then it was pretty faint. Can't say I have ever tried using the trunk outlet simply because I have a compressor in the garage.

mfahey1 · September 2002

This was discussed a few months ago with me being one who had never heard mine operate. One day, however, I was in the garage, loading things into the trunk. I was able to hear it then although it wasn't very load even from outside the car and I can only assume that you wouldn't have been able to hear it when inside the car.

smfran · September 2002

I've used mine many, many times in both my current SSEi and my previous 1997. I use it to inflate my daughter's "blow up" pool. It takes approximately ten cycles as the compressor shuts down after a period of time (10 mins.?), and needs to be reset. I also start the car after the third cycle as not to drain the battery and keep all accessories like climate control off while using.

mfahey1 · September 2002

For those who might have had unkind thoughts about my posting twice on the same subject, I wish to state that I came back to the board several hours after I posted the first response. Not seeing it there, I just figured I typed it but forgot to actually post it. Obviously some type of posting delay on the site but I did feel a little silly at first.

tpken · September 2002

I've heard mine occasionally -not often and the first time it took a minute to realize what it was. A great feature - does its job efficiently and quietly and doesn't make waves! Wish more people operated that way! lol

tpken · September 2002

I also really like the nww Envoy and certainly would consider it as a vehicle. In our case a 3 seat model would replace the Suburban nicely. I'd prefer driving the shorter one though. A test drive on a new Trailblazer several months ago - std wheelbase - amazed me. The ride was supple and smooth and the vehicle handled well. It's going to be a gold mine for GMC I think.

Good luck. Sorry to hear your SSEI is losing it's luster for you. Seventy K isn't that far away for me either any more. I'm at 59K now.

Ken

theiceman · September 2002

Haven't been here for a while. Still love my Bonnie and have no problems to report. Only 30k miles tho' - a little less than some of you. There are absolutely no interior rattles or squeaks left and it still rides flawlessly. Might be due for a tire change before I head into the winter tho' (I'd rather have more tread than less going into the winter and I don't want to keep a second set of rims and snows).

Stephen, my brother's been renting an Envoy for a couple of weeks and he loves it. Surprising given that his two cars back home (Los Angelse) are a Volvo 850 wagon and a Subaru Outback. I've been in one and am equally impressed.

All for now - hope it won't be another few months before I come back here again.

ice

tpken · September 2002

I was just wondering about you after I posted above. Glad to see you're around and well.

Saw the twin of your car today at a restaurant. Very Nice!!

Take care

Ken

smfran · September 2002

Ken and Dan, thanks for the responses. As it gets closer to next spring I'll start to visit the Envoy boards to get additional info. Nice to hear from you both.
Stephen

whogault · September 2002

I know that somewhere on this board there are references and links to sources for performance upgrades for the bonnie. I read them myself when I first got the 00' SSEi. In fact, got the pulley upgrade the first month I had the car. Been happy but....
Now my 17 year old wants me to " do the intake, the sways, and a cat-back" So, at the risk of going over old ground...has anyone successfully done any of these upgrades? If so, can you recommend and give the resources? Air compressor still not working but the car is at the body shop getting the trailer-hitch kiss removed from the seriously easy to damage front bumper.

mfahey1 · September 2002

http://sanerperffab.com will get you to the sway bar upgrades. The rear bar was a piece of cake, took an hour and a half tops. The front, however, was a different story. I was thisclose to having the car towed off and letting someone else finish up. Basically, you have to disconnect the tie rods, unbolt the exhaust where it meets the manifolds, lower the engine cradle and I hope you get the picture. You can do it but its what you feel comfortable tackling. The difference was somewhat subtle but I do like the improved dynamic response that came at no tradeoff of ride quality.

There has been some discussion about the Ravin muffler system. http://ravin.com. I'm not sure anyone currently active on this site has actually done the replacement.

I'm not aware of an intake upgrade. Other than replacing heads and perhaps going to a roller rocker design camshaft, I'm not sure what more you could do other than perhaps a larger throttle body.

ezrapon · September 2002

I called that guy on the above web site, but he acted like he didn't know anything about exhaust systems. He did say however that should I decide to sue them he'd be more than happy to take the case...only in Webster!!

mfahey1 · September 2002

I just received the latest Pontiac Excitement where the article on the Bonnevilles said that the most exciting news for 2003 was that XM radio was now available on all Bonnevilles. Whoop. That and the decontenting of the SLE and SSEi.
There was also an article on the 2004 Grand Prix in our paper yesterday stating that the GTP would be rated at 250hp. and that it would be available with a Competition Package that would enhance high speed dry cornering with StabilTrak Plus.

mfahey1 · September 2002

Uhh, let's try http://goravin.com. Severe case of brain fade.

theiceman · October 2002

...explain slow times on this board.

For example, after last year's Chicago Auto Show, have heard precious little about the GXP - the one variant that could keep me in a Bonneville. Not that I'm thinking of a trade in the immediate future but, as those incentives stay put and the GM Visa dollars add up...

Now, if only we had the occasional teaser to whet our appetite. But alas, all we hear from Pontiac is about performance parts for the Aztek.

You have to think that the geniuses at GM know what they're doing. Right? ;-P

mfahey1 · October 2002

I'm off to Maine in a little bit for some leaf peeping. I could have taken our van what with all of the stuff I'm taking out there but I really wanted to take the Bonneville for a change. Between the trip out there and the various side trips, I'll put on about 3000 miles in a week and a half.
Now if I can just avoid a repeat of last year when the ignition died and I had to leave the car there for a month.

tpken · October 2002

Hope the driving is very enjoyable and the scenery picture perfect. It's been unseasonably warm here the last couple days. Even used my A/C at home and in the car last night.

Should be a great trip. I often wish I could take a day off and just drive north this time of year but the job is all-consuming these days.

loubanas · October 2002

Does anyone know where I can get a front-end cover (bra) and mud flaps for a 2003 Bonneville SE? I just ordered the car and the dealer can't seem to find these items customized for the SE.

intense01 · October 2002

We just opened registration for INTENSE Drag Day #2. All proceeds go back into prize money, so it's not for profit, and I hope that means I can post it here...

www.INTENSE-Racing.com

PLEASE don't make me be the only Bonneville owner there!

Scott

h101 · October 2002

Hiya... A quick search popped up several internet sources (I used Google with the words Bonneville Bra)

Here are three (remove the spaces... the board won't allow "words" over 15 characters long)

http:// www.spiderautomotive.com/ frontbra.html

http:// www.carbras.com/perfectfit/ pontiac.htm

http:// koolitems.com/autoparts/ Le%20Bra%202.htm

mlm4 · October 2002

GM Accessories sells such a front-end cover (that's where I got mine) although at a premium price. I am surprised (not) that the dealer doesn't know about this. (When you say "dealer," do you refer to the sales associate, who knows nothing to begin with? Apologies to the handful of sales associates who actually know their product -- you are among a very small minority.) You can also order these accessories through places such as GMPartsDirect at wholesale prices.

Now, to give the benefit of the doubt, it is entirely possible that the 2003 SE front-end cover has not yet been released because the '03 may be slightly different than the '00-'02 (??). Perhaps in a few months...?

ezrapon · October 2002

my ssei has developed a sharp clunk/knock from the front end when ever I stop, start, or pitch sideways with vigor. The seat heater went out for the 3rd time (different seat) now they will have to match a new seat cover. Warranty is up in March. I wonder if it's time to start looking around for a new car or an extended warranty. Please notice no bragging about the rams anymore. I also must hang my head for the Cardinals as well. Too bad we cant play the red sox all year, eh!

smfran · October 2002

the only way the Cards could play the Red Sox more is if one of them switched leagues or if Spring Training lasted all year. They didn't even play each other during inter-league play.
As far as the Rams are concerned, they stink! :>)
My only question for you is, can Warner still drive his SSEi with a broken finger? (if he still has it)

intense01 · October 2002

We opened registration for INTENSE Drag Day #2 a week ago, and so far only one of us has registered.

It's gonna be a blast, and I'd love to see some of you out there...

www.INTENSE-Racing.com

Scott

ezrapon · October 2002

The cardinals have played the Sox a few times in the world series(and won). I believe they will play them this year in inter-league play. Perhaps my ssei and I will make the trip east if I can find tickets to Fenway. I did see Warner up at Blockbuster last week end with his sling and his ssei. I didn't try to talk to him this time, I was afraid I might hurt him.

smfran · October 2002

The Red Sox have played (and lost) to the St. Louis Cardinals twice in World Series history; 1946 and 1967. Both were lost in 7 games. I was actually at one of the games at Fenway in '67. I don't remember which one as I was only 7 years old.
Although the Red Sox sell out most games, tickets are easily obtainable on line at redsox.com early in the year. I usually buy ten games or so during February.
If you are serious about coming east with your SSEi to see the Cards at Fenway, let me know. I'm sure we could arrange a Bonneville meet. Although by that time I may be in a new Envoy :>).

ezrapon · October 2002

I'd like to see the Sox and Yankees this year when the Cardinals head east. I too maybe in an Envoy (long wheel base) myself.

smfran · October 2002

I've already started the preliminary investigation of the Envoy XL. However, the Edmunds boards on it do not contain much dedicated discussion as we see here with the Bonneville. Mostly it's generic talk including the Trailblazer and Bravada.
What's the problem with the Cardinals? Just when I thought they had a chance last night, they blew it. In hindsight, pitching around Bonds was a major mistake.

theiceman · October 2002

Hard indeed to choose. I love my '00 SLE to be sure but with GM killing the B-ville and only minor cosmetic changes in 3 years, excitement is no longer coming from Pontiac. To add to the ho-hum factor: 205 - or even 240 - hp is no longer a big deal in the mid-full sized market. Unless things change, I seriously doubt if another Bonnie will be in my future. Will I ever own two of the same model in a row? Sigh...

Stephen, I just recently spent some serious time in a deep green 4x4 XL and was very impressed. Very solid and quite responsive, every feature you could want and was stopped 3x by people who gushed over it. Although the interior was quite nice, it still fell a little short of what I would have liked to have seen in a vehicle of its price point. I won't elaborate and, to be fair, I haven't critically scrutinized the competition. On the whole though, I would have rated the "solidity" of the interior materials closer to those of my wife's Grand Prix than to my Bonneville.

To be even fairer - and in the final analysis - I am still quite impressed by the Envoy and would have no trouble buying if I was in that market.

Dan

smfran · October 2002

Thanks for the input. Could you elaborate on the comment that the interior was more like the Grand Prix than the Bonnie?

There is a feature I would want that is not in the GMC; Heads up display. Believe it or not, that feature was one of the main reasons I went with a Bonneville for the 5th time in a row.

Stephen

mlm4 · October 2002

I hear you guys in saying that there would be no love lost with Pontiac when it comes time to trade in your Bonnevilles. I am very much hoping that whatever Pontiac does do in the future will re-kindle some sort of excitement, even if the Bonneville and it's heritage will cease to exist as we know it (in their new products). I've said before that the Bonneville is a niche vehicle and I believe that part of the reason for it's (presumed) demise is that it is not up to par with the so-called competition in terms of build quality especially (and in some respects the love-it-or-hate-it styling). It's got all the features (short of a navigation system) and is a good value for the package, and the performance and handling are good but not excellent, but it's got the stigma of being a Pontiac in a world where Lexus, BMW, Acura, etc. reign in popularity.

The good thing I'm hearing (if I hear correctly) is that if you're looking at the Envoy you're still committed to GM products. I can't compare the Envoy with the Bonneville because they are completely different vehicles, but I must admit having some interest myself in the upcoming Envoy XUV with the retractable roof. As much as I love the full-size trucks, the XUV actually seems more appealing to me than the Avalanche because it looks like it will do most everything the Av does but in a smaller package. Still, it won't be a street racer! :-)

ezrapon · October 2002

as people seem ready to jump ship on the Titanic (bonneville). Yes, 240 H.P. is way out of line for these times. The build quality is suspect. It's ultimate demise is the effect of these shortcomings. Mine is in the shop (again) about the 10th time. I wouldn't dream of keeping this car without an extended warranty. As I waited for my loaner, I walked around the lot and showroom. They had about 10 Trans ams, about half of them rag tops. I sat in one and looked over the goodies. It then hit me, there are too many things I'd miss. The HUD, the climate control, heated seats, the outside temperature, auto dimming mirror, all the DIC features, and a degree of comfort that does not exist in a car of this ilk. Gtp's were aplenty, but I'd hate to get into one at the end of the platform run. I guess I'll wait and see what this GTO platform is like. Too bad they don't try a rear wheel drive SSEi with the 310 H.P. Ls1 engine. I think there are others on this board who might get behind me in line for one.

smfran · October 2002

As most of you know, I'm a creature of habit when it comes to my vehicles. Since 1980 I've had 3 Regals and 5 Bonnevilles. Before that I had a '64 Lesabre and a '75 Electra. I'm GM through and through; specifically sportier packaged Buicks and Pontiacs. With the popularity of the SUV and prodding from my wife, I've been considering that it's time for a change. I figured that the Envoy could be considered a "Bonneville SUV".
My cousin just got a Honda Pilot and really likes it. I drove it and found myself thinking that it is plain doesn't have "that GM feeling". Those of us who are loyal to GM know just what that means.
It seems that when you buy an American made product, you get more of the creature comforts ezrapon mentioned, and give up some build quality in comparison to imports in the same price range. I've been willing to make that choice in my vehicles, however, my wife has had four Japanese cars in the twenty years we've been married. She doesn't care about things like HUD and DIC. She wants quality and the secure feeling that comes with the Toyota Sienna van she has now. My Pontiac dealer offered her a loaded Montana for less money than the Sienna. She could of had a Ford Windstar or one of the Chrysler van siblings which also would have been less money and much more luxurious with more "toys". She was not interested and I don't blame her. She'll probably keep this van ten years and with routine maintenance, will never have a major problem; and it will be worth more money when it's time to trade.

mfahey1 · October 2002

My trip to Maine was relatively uneventful save for almost buying the farm in New Hampshire on the way out. The roads were somewhat damp and this being the first road trip since I changed the pulley, I wasn't used to the extra power. I pulled out to pass and broke traction at full throttle. The car jerked rather violently until I quickly lifted off the throttle. Needless to say, I was wide awake the rest of the trip.
While there, there was a cosmic coincidence of what may have been all of the new generation SSEis in Maine. I rarely ever see a Bonneville of any sort out there except in the high rent area where Ken lives. I was in town at a store and parked next to a silver SSEi. She wound up going out the same road I did when I left town and when I turned off, there was a white SSEi coming the opposite way and all three of us converged on the same intersection at the same time. Those may have been the only 3 new generation SSEis in all of Maine.
Finally, my pristine 2000 without a door ding of any sort and only one small rock chip on the hood now has a series of scratches on the driver's door, compliments of a friend in Maine's mutt. My friend came over to visit and tied the mangy hound to a tree by my car. I could see from the cabin that the dog was close to the car and told my friend that I hated to sound paranoid about my car but I was uncomfortable with the dog so close. He said that there wasn't a problem, that he had tied the dog far enough away. Turns out he was wrong and the dog jumped on the door. I'm hoping the scratches didn't go through the clear and can be buffed out. I'm the type that parks clear away from anyone and here I get done in like that.

theiceman · October 2002

Stephen,

I'm one of these guys who pushes and pulls at whatever I can on the dashboard to see if it's flimsy or it'll creak under stress. I've always figured that if it'll creak or give too much when new, it's not likely to get better. The Bonneville passed that test with flying colours. The GP did not but it was such a deal, is a leaser and is for my wife anyway (she doesn't have the same obsessions) that it wasn't a deal killer.

I tried the same thing on the Envoy and was disappointed in the centre console - particularly the piece of lateral dash trim that horizontally divides the console panel. In the Bonneville, it's rock solid; in the Grand Prix and Envoy (and Century, and Regal, and...), it had a flimsy feel. IMHO, creaks will be inevitable.

Only wish I had thought of doing the same test on the Bonnie's doors... >:(
(although in fairness, I've managed to resolve those creaks and the car is, after 30k miles, free of rattles and creaks).

Would I consider another Bonneville? Absolutely. But with all the decent competition out there today, it'd have to win the price war pretty clearly to earn my dollar.

Of course, my BIL just bought a Chev-Cadillac dealership so...

Dan

smfran · October 2002

I'll check out the Envoy very thoroughly before making the commitment to a new three year lease. I'll pay particular attention to the points you mentioned. Thank you for the input.
It sounds like a CTS could be in your future :>)
Stephen

evandro · October 2002

For that matter, I was very well impressed by the CTS' interior quality. As it was at NAIAS, I could compare it with the German brands, and the only to beat it was Mercedes in fit and finish.

It's too bad it's such a small car, especially width-wise.

imidazol97 · October 2002

DexCool has many facets to the discussion points. In some cars the DexCool allegedly gives a sludge-like material. Supposely it can cause some clogging just like not changing other coolant could. The factor with early Ford products was air in the radiator. IF the air was not completely purged from the system by a complete fill, the air mixing with the hot, circulating DexCool formed a precipitate or sludge that needed to be flushed. Leaving it in a long time added to the problem.

Like all coolants the additives in DexCool can deteriorate with useage and time. Checking with a test strip or a voltmeter for electrolysis detects deterioration of the additives. Replacing every two years seems to be a recommendation by many real mechanics and I take that. Since I do my own drain, rinse, add and th DexCool costs only about $10 for a gallon compared to $7 for green stuff, I change--it's cheap.

Some thought the DexCool deteriorated gaskets on the plastic intake manifolds and added to leaks. Different intakes on different GM engines had different problems. So there's a mix of discussion here as if they're all the same. I had the intake changes on mine due to seepage starting. Maybe water pump and some signs of leak around the gasket near the air induction system where water circulates up through the air flow to warm it in winter.

The same plastic manifold on the 3800 had an egr tube of plastic around a hot metal pipe sticking up into it that deteriorated from the heat. Poor design or molding or materials. Apparently replacement intakes were redesigned. Gasket material also was changed.

I'll stick with DexCool because the mechanics I hear say it's less of a problem than the green stuff with it silicates over time. I'll change it myself to avoid the 'bloom' corrosion that forms on radiator tubes that restricts the flow over time.

If you chanaged to DexCool, was the green stuff thoroughly flushed out with rinses before DexCool went it. They don't mix well.

fantascp · October 2002

Looks like i'll be back to a one Bonneville owner again-(98 SSE) just came back from the Saturn Dealership,
We'll be taking advantage of the latest GM roll-up,
returning the 2000 SE 5 months early- lease due up in March, 2003- getting the NEW Saturn L200 Sedan- getting a $500.00 Credit from GM (loyalty)Etc. The price was right- only i tried to talk the Mrs into the L-300 (6 cyl)- no good- she wants to down-size and wants better gas mileage.
I was surprised by the interior rear room of the Saturn- had both front seats all the way back- and still had plenty of leg room to spare.
I also liked the folding 60/40 rear seats- and the trunk is also a nice size for a smaller car.
We opted for the Automatic Trans- Optional on the 200L- standard on the 300L, leather appointments(which you must then take both the Comfort Package and the Convenience package)ABS with Traction Control. The color is Medium Blue.
By passed the Sports package and their Premium Package.
all told we'll be cutting our costs down over $100.00+ a month and getting extra features not on the 2000 SE
Leather seats, Heated front seats, auto climate control, heated outside mirrors, traction control and CD player.

Granted neither the 4 or 6 cyl is a 3800 Series II, but both had very nice pick-ups.
All in all, if anyone is looking for a smaller car and still wants to remain in the GM Family, test drive the new L Series Saturn.

Chuck
*(STILL LOVE MY 98 SSE!!!!!!!)*Thinking of getting a few dinks out of her and having her re-painted BLACK* -presently dark cherry.

theiceman · October 2002

Always good to poke and prod at the dash - probably the greatest number of independently assembled components in a modern car and therefore a good indicator of build quality. IMHO.

Don't get me wrong - the Envoy is a superb vehicle. Especially where it counts: under the hood and on the asphalt. My only knowledge of a direct competitor is the Highlander and I think it's a toss-up between perceived quality and features. It's always also useful to check out recommended maintenance schedules and to try to estimate how much that's going to cost.

As for a CTS: love the concept, learning to like the execution, and could live with the size. That's not enough to put me in one though. If they changed to asthetics, I might be tempted - perhaps as a replacement to the GP when its lease expires (in early '05!!!).

Still love the Bonnie though. At 30k miles and trying to decide between holding on or trading sometime next year. The GXP would definitely be a consideration - but my dealer hasn't heard anything about it coming from HQ (it is possible that Canada wouldn't get any if it's a limited production).

In the meantime, am shopping around for tires - gotta replace them before the snow hits (there's still decent tread there but not enough for an Ottawa winter). The 235/55-17 size is a real limitation isn't it? I've narrowed it down to: Dunlop SP Sport A2Michelin Energy MXV4 PlusMichelin Pilot Sport a/s (the most expensive of the lot by far!).

Anybody else find a decent replacement all-season for this size that they could recommend? So far, I'm tossed up between these three.

Dan

theiceman · October 2002

Congrats on the Saturn Chuck.

Any thoughts about the extended warranty? The GM one is only good for 24k miles (40k kms.) beyond the factory 36k. For me, this represents 16 months of driving. Cost to me will be about $US 700, maybe a bit more. So, I'm looking at about $50/mo. for a little peace of mind. Not worried about the powertrain but there are a lot of electricals on these Bonnies and it doesn't take much.

I've tended to be a risk taker in the past and, over my life, it's paid off to be self-insured. I'm leaning towards NOT extending the warranty.

Your views would be appreciated.

Dan

(hey, this topic has some life again - now, if only Pontiac would give us some news we could chew on...)

smfran · October 2002

Having theiceman back as a regular participant certainly picks up the pace on this board. We missed you Dan!

Chuck - Sounds like you are very happy with your move to the Saturn. Best of luck with it. My lease isn't up until May. I'm hoping the GM rollup will be extended past the March lease expiration deadline in another couple months. With the incentives, I might be able to get in to an Envoy at no additional monthly cost.

I got the 100,000 extended GM warranty built in to my current lease. The peace of mind has been worth it. I now have over 70,000 miles and just had to replace the passenger rear window motor. I've had other items covered like the driver's heated seat. I don't know if the expenses would have been more than the cost of the plan, but who ever wants to get the value back on an insurance policy. Hindsight is always 20/20.

theiceman · October 2002

I'm not sure that a 100k mile GM warranty is even available up here. I know that I can get a 60k mile warranty and that's what's causing me to hesitate. In my experience, cars don't "age" much between 36k and 60k miles - unless they've already shown a "problematic temperment" in the first few years. OTOH, quite a lot can happen as one passes the 60k mile mark and moves up to the 100k mark - particularly with an auto tranny and some sophisticated electricals.

I'll do some more investigation but I suspect I'm looking at aftermarket firms - and then I'm not so sure.

BTW, saw my first '03 Grand Am the other day. A big improvement to the exterior. Still don't like the dashboard treatment but I've got to give Pontiac some +ve points.

Dan

ezrapon · October 2002

I have had 4. 3 paid for themselves, one was not used. My wife's park ave had the alt and water pump replaced under the ext. war., and because the repair was made at a Buick dealer, the repair is covered for life... can't beat that. My ssei was just in the shop, seat heater, tie rod end and cradle bolts. I've heard, that the CTS will have significant motor upgrades (300 HP+) in the near future...and a rag top, might want to wait that out. While my car was in the shop I had a L series Saturn loaner. Trunk and rear seat were outstanding, but the ride (rolling noise, buzzy motor) made me REALLY appreciate the Pontiac. The dash set up was a bit weird for me too, but I guess I would get use to it. It was fun to be able to pull directly into my rear entery garage without making the 2 back up manuvers required with the hog-like ssei. As for pontiac, I went to the movies yesterday and Pontiac had a long impressive commercial before the previews. The ssei was not left out. Fuel for excitement, it was called. The trans am was conspicious by its absence. There was a dark shadowy car flying down the salt flats... could have been the new gto...didn't look like the ssei race car.

smfran · October 2002

It's nice to see some of the old participants back regularly on this board (ezrapon).

Where's tpken?

The 100,000 mile warranty I got was back in early 2000. I can only assume it is still available. I hope I don't have to make the decision whether to eliminate it or not in order to keep my next lease payment relatively close to my current one. If I go for the Envoy, I could consider the regular length vs. the XL. I'd have to go for the SLT version in either case to keep the interior and equipment at the level of my SSEi; Leather, DIC, air compressor, etc. My ideal of course is the XL SLT.

Who else is seriously considering an Envoy?

montanafan · October 2002

In the Northeast, Saturns are not eligable for the loyalty bonus. Be careful, and double/triple check with the dealer.

thill381 · October 2002

Hello everybody it has been a long time since I have posted here. I guess during midwest summer months we find ourselves outside and tied up more so than in the off season. Any way, Stephen I see a few post ago you mentioned that you had fixed the creaks coming from your door panels. My wifes SSEi was a creak that comes from the passenger door arm rest that I can not get rid of. If I simply place my finger, with just the smallest amount of pressure, on the arm rest it will stop, but once there is no pressure on the panel it returns. I have tried inserting thin cardboard (business cards) under the arm rest to prevent it only to no avail. How exactly did you correct this?

As for your interest in the Envoy, I have been driving an 02 SLT for about 4 months now. It is a very capable and well refined vehicle in every aspect. The only problem I have with it is the comfort of the front seats. There is a horizontal seam where the ribbed leather meets the smooth leather that pertrudes into my back and is quiet uncomfortable after 20 - 30 miles of driving. I'm sure most people would not have a problem with this, especially if you prefer lumbar support, but I find it very uncomfortable. Fortunantley this is my company car and I will be out of it soon. Other than that one minor complaint the Envoy has been a treat to drive, and it gets quiet a few compliments.

evandro · October 2002

My Stratus came with these from Chrysler, were gone by 25000mls and was happy to replace them with BFG Radial T/A, which added very good wet traction and less noise going both straight and around curves. 35000mls later, the Stratus still wears them and they seem to have some 15000mls more.

BTW, the BFG Touring T/A are very good too, which my remarkable Alero wore.

evandro · October 2002

I've noticed quite a few people leasing their cars in this forum. I've done that once and now prefer buying, even though the transition is hard when the lease goes and there's no trade-in.

But I'm curious to know why some prefer leasing over buying.

To me, it makes more financial sense buying, for I keep my cars for at least 5 years, usually a couple more.

smfran · October 2002

I still get periodic creaks from my door panels; sometimes worse than others. I believe it was theiceman that was able to eliminate his.

Thanks thill381 for the Envoy comments. I'll definitely borrow one from my dealer before making any long term commitments. I frequently take extended trips and require seat comfort. I once had a Dodge Intrepid loaner that was very comfortable until I hit about one hour of drive time. At that point my legs would cramp. I've never had that problem in my Bonnevilles.

I lease my cars due to the following reasons:
1)I can drive a more costly vehicle for a lesser monthly payment.
2)I like to drive a new one after three years.
3)No trade-in or selling hassles.
4)I put on relatively high mileage so the end value would not be that good on a trade.
I realize that buying makes more sense; similar to renting a home vs. buying. But for me and many others, leasing has its advantages.

Pontiac Bonneville

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