Pontiac Bonneville

theiceman · February 2001

Good to know dealers pull the same scams regardless of where they are - US or Canada.

You might want to consider taking the diff. that the dealer would charge and instead sinking it into an extended warranty on the used one. After all, you are talking about 32k mi. vs. 36k mi. warranty - or a diff. of approx. 10%. If you CAN peg a value on the original warranty (remember, this is the most reliable part of the car's life), it is not likely any more costly than the value of an extended warranty. In Canada, I can get an extended for another 3/36 for cost - or less than $1000 (I convert everything to $US for you guys). I'd therefore put the value of your dealer's "extra" warranty at only about $100.

Ken's advice on doing the VIN check to clear it of rental status is good but I'd be surprised if it finds anything: SE's were the ones designed for rental fleets; I would be very surprised to find either an SSEi or an SLE in rental circulation.

refiner · February 2001

I had mine reprogrammed yesterday. I watched the guy do it. He had a programming box that plugged into the OBD port. You would have to have that to do it. I doubt their easy or cheap to get. By the way I"m still looking for someone to come up with programmer for our computer.

smfran · February 2001

Ken's advice is excellent. My feeling is; What's the difference between a dealer demo and a rental? Both are driven by people who may not be looking out for the best interest of the vehicle, and in the case of the supercharged SSEi, testing it for all it's worth. That being said, with that much left on the warranty (2 11/2 years), I'd say go for the "rental" with less mileage. You'll know soon enough what if anything is wrong with the car and have it taken care of under warranty. The difference in price will take care of anything that may happen in the additional 6 months. Also keep in mind that if you drive more than 12,000 miles per year, the time left on the warranty is a moot point. Remember: 3 years or 36,000 miles. Good luck!
Stephen

smfran · February 2001

Iceman - Did you buy your car from the relative? Or were you smart and go to a stranger:)?
djohn - What is the difference in cost between the two? Also, did you ask the "rental" dealer to give you a reason to buy from him vs. the other guy? Like the full 36 month warranty?

theiceman · February 2001

I did just that - this guy is a pro. I'm happy with the deal and the treatment that I've been getting. Truth be known, I was scouting out 1999 Aurora's and the Bonnie wasn't even on my radar screen. Remember, I'd been an import owner for 20 years but I grew fond of the Northstar V-8 in the Aurora and its styling and features were up there too. Only problem: 3/4 of Aurora's had sunroofs & headroom was abysmal - I couldn't find one with low kms, reasonable $ AND no sunroof. Enter Bonnie. Very glad it worked out the way it did.

BTW, I've learned from other sources that GM is considering collapsing the Bonneville into the GP line - making it the top of the line GP designation. But they're waiting to see if sales of the new Bonnie will be good enough to keep the line going. Lots of rumours flying around - too many good cars (GP, Bonnie, Aurora) narrow slices of the same market. Bonnie's sales are so far (apparently), so good.

tpken · February 2001

Pontiac yanked the full size Bonnie (Rear wheel drive then) and stuck the name plate onto a LeMans sedan - kept it there until the resurrection of the full size car in the mid eighties. I sure get tired of these name games! GM must figure the car buying public is pretty dumb - and I suppose a lot are - but those of us in 'the know' can tell the difference between a real Bonnie and a 'fake'.

Long Live Bonneville!!!

Ken

theiceman · February 2001

Are K+N Filters worth the money? It's not much $ really but hate to do it if there's no point. My engine is the non-SC Series II 3800 so I can't do the mods you SSEi guys are doing but I'd like to put as much punch into Judy as I can. While you're at it, are there any other non-warranty-voiding suggestions?

Still atoning to Chief Pontiac for not buying the SSEi....

snickle · February 2001

Get the lower mileage one and buy a good extended warranty. Don't get the warrranty from the dealer. Try www.warrantygold.com. Great warranties, great prices and you get to have the work done anywhere you want.

smfran · February 2001

Ken is right about the rear wheel drive Bonnie turning in to a front wheel drive 4 door Lemans. One point he did not mention though is that Pontiac still offered another large rear wheel drive car at that time; the Parisianne.

I think the K+N air filter is worth it. It will probably last the lifetime of the car with no replacements necessary. If you also get a few additional horses for the chief, consider it a bonus.

theiceman · February 2001

If GM was going to drop the Bonneville name, you've got to wonder why they wouldn't have made the 2000 makeover a little more gradual. I personally think that these rumours were based on an analysis by GM execs which went something like: "Sales of the Bonneville are declining big time. Let's modernize it, bring it closer in looks to the Grand Prix and, if it doesn't sell well, we'll tack the name unto one of the GP models. Otherwise, we'll keep the name going until sales dive." As I said in my earlier posting, sales of the Bonneville are WAY up and large cars seem to be making a comeback. Given the current demographics and projections, I personally think this trend is here for a good long while - at least until the next energy crisis.

P.S. Thanks for your advice on the K+N filters Stephen. A colleague of mine with a Grand Spam claims he got 5 extra ponies with his. Apparently, he has a dyno....

jashou · February 2001

I am a new 2000 bone SSEi owner and I love it purchased it at a dealer in Houston. Black w/roof had 11k miles and paid 25k. The ride is smooth, but I seem to feel the road thou the steering wheel between 55 - 75 mph and it seems to decrease around 80mph. Just wondering is this normal? Would it due to the magnasteer steering? or would it just the ride I should expect from the good year tires (which I have never been real fond of). Took it to Discount Tire and they put it on their machine and detected a out of round tire and I had it replaced (prorated) and balanced twice helped a little. Has anyone notice any difference after replacing their original tires? Previously owned 300m and am enjoying my bonne more. Too many problems with the M.

tpken · February 2001

Yes, smfran, I had forgotten that Pontiac brought that car out in 84 or so after they had stopped making the rear wheel drive big car for a couple years. They took a Chevy Caprice/Impala and robbed the parts bin of the front of a 78 Bonneville and the taillights from the current 84 Impala - couldn't even spend a few grand to come up with a slightly different taillight assembly! Then after another year or so (86?) they remanufactured the tail of the 80 Bonneville, slapped it on and kept that going for a couple more years. TO me it was an absolute joke - Pontiac obviously underestimated the demand for the big RWD car and had to jury rig one together in a hurry - it was essentially a Caprice in every other detail. What an abortion!

Ken

theiceman · February 2001

The mid 70's to mid 80's were some of the darkest days for the big 3. These "parts bins" cars were partly responsible for making me an import buyer all of these years. Those and the "J" bodies and the Phoenix. Too bad that they had to go through those days to get to where they are now.

tpken · February 2001

If you look at a 2001 Grand Marquis or Crown Vic as compared to say a 1988 (owned 88 and 90) there is marginal generational updating (but are still great cars other than a stupidly designed plastic intake manifold).

Now look at today's Bonneville (particularly the SSEi) vs the car mentioned above - Quantum Leap!

Same for top of the line Olds Aurora vs old style 98, Cadillac DeVille DTS or SeVille STS vs 80's cars.

Major improvement in design and style ignited the return to automotive enthusiasm for many of us who snored through the 80s and early 90s.

Ken

teo · February 2001

and the rest og the G-body platform sedans is that they are too darn expensive when compared to similiary equipped W-body sedans. For instance, the Bonneville is the lowest priced sedan of the G-body family yet the Grand prix, Impala, Regal and even the Intrigue seriously undercuts it in the value and bang for the buck dept. Example, you can't get the automatic self dimming rear view mirror unless you buy the top of the line Bonneville SSEi..that's plain silly. Altough the automatic mirror is a very insignificant option, you'll be surprised that most buyers in the $25K and up price range will expect this small luxury item. I think GM has to find a way to reduce the price on the otherwise excellent Bonneville, but I am afraid they don't want it to affect Grand Prix sales...a catch 22 situation indeed..

tpken · February 2001

Teo - In my Ford days (past) it used to bother me that a base/Executive series Lincoln Town Car did not even offer as options some of the equipment found as std on my top of the line Taurus and Grand Marquis. For instance - the power lumbar adjusters, or the articulating headrests. You had to buy a Signature series to get those features or else slide down to the smaller and less prestigious car. Go figure - it's all part of their antiquated mind set that there must be a 'stripped down' version of every model and another 'top of the line' version that offers fancier upholstery as its lure.

Ken

jnichol1 · February 2001

I'm stumped. Last weekend, I took my car in to have the oil changed, tires rotated and a fuse for the power locks/power antenna replaced. My radio was working just fine. After they gave me my car back, none of the controls on the steering column nor the dash work except in a 'delayed' pattern. Punch the button 10 times or so and it will finally do what you are asking (volume, on/off, etc.) Finally, I remembered having this problem many years ago and thought it was that darned locking theft mechanism.

Took the car to the dealer. They said it was NOT the lock mechanism cuz the radio was on. They could not get it into either lock or unlock mode. So I am stuck listing to 1 station cuz the controls are so difficult to mess with. They said they could have their electrician completely tear it out but it might get costly. Ugh.

I called a radio repair place and the dealer that I bought the car from. The repair place thought they may have been trying the wrong code. Is there a master code? Could this be true? I KNOW this is exactly what happened about 80K miles ago but the service guys won't believe this woman. Geez.

The radio works; all of the fuses appear to be good. Any ideas on what I should do? I drive many miles here in the Texas prairie and being forced to listen to commercials is driving me to the looney bin.

smfran · February 2001

You mentioned one rumor stating the possibility of dropping the Bonnie as we know it due to other GM options, like the Aurora. Since Oldsmobile will be no more, the Aurora will not be available.

ezrapon · February 2001

I saw a 2000 SSEi black with all options 5xxx miles here in the midwest. It has the under drive pulley already and the guy wants 27,000. It seemed like a fair deal. I found a strange cable behind the passenger side rear seat... looked like coax. Dealer thinks it might be for the onstar system.

rea98d · February 2001

Why not put an Aurora V-8 in the Bonneville?

ezrapon · February 2001

Anyone catch the 450 hp Bonneville that hit 200 at the namesakes salt flats. They (Pontiac magazine) claim it to be almost stock. They mentioned changing axle ratios but not the tranny air conditioner or even cd player. Intense: are you getting this... 450 HP.

intense01 · February 2001

This morning I found myself in Detroit, in search of the quickest route to Buffalo. A quick look at the atlas confirmed the trip across Ontario was almost a straight line...

So, I crossed the Bridge to Canada, and switched my DIC into metric mode. A short while later I noticed the HUD started flashing - 199 - 199 - 199 - etc.

So now we know what happens when we max out our 2.5 digit digital HUD speedometer. Hope some of you are amused by my transgressions!

intense01 · February 2001

They're lying. This Bonneville had a SERIOUSLY modified engine.

Lee Racing Engines (California) built two engines for the car. One had 570 horsepower, and the other was 670. The crankshafts alone cost nearly $10,000. The blocks were o-ringed. They did custom pistons and custom (homemade) camshafts. The blowers had been replaced with Kenne Bell twin-screw superchargers running 15 - 19 pounds of boost. They built their own double roller timing chains, along with 1.6:1 and 1.7:1 rocker arms. The induction, exhaust, and PCM's were nowhere near stock. I didn't mention the heads because I can't remember what they had done in this area.

I'm not questioning the fact that the feat was an incredible accomplishment. I just feel their 'virtually stock' editorial comments were extremely misleading.

teo · February 2001

I think the Bonneville desperately needs a V8 engine for the upper crust SSEi model. Even Edmund's agrees on this one. Currently the only other G-platform cars that have V8 engines are the Olds Aurora and the Cadillac Seville. The lower G cars (Bonneville/leSabre) only offer the excellent 3800 Series II V6 on both N/A and S/C variants. As I stated on an earlier post, the SSEi is too darn expensive....$33K for a full size car equipped with a S/C V6 engine..not bad but no too terrific either. The '01 Aurora with the 4.0 DOHC V8 can be had for less than $30K on current incentives. The Bonneville SSEi needs a V8 to stand up in the crowd..otherwise the Grand Prix GTP or Regal GS offer the exact same engine and performance for $6K less. Again, the Bonneville is an excellent car but GM needs to relialize that the current pricing and content ratio scheme is seriously affecting the new Bonnie as well as the used market sales of this full size sedan. I don't want to see the Grand Prix becoming the new Pontiac flagship when the all new "Mid-lux" GP debuts in 2003...but unfortunately it is heading on that direction.

This is how I would re-position the current Bonnie trim levels...

SE: 3800 Series II V6, standard Magnasteer, etc..make it the value leader and reduce the MSRP from $26K to around $24K.

SLE: This car is rare as it is redundant in the line-up? What does it has to offer over the SE? Not much in my opinion, just a bunch of Gizmos. Give the SLE the 3800 S/C engine as STANDARD fare and reduce the price to $26K.

SSEi: Tone down the batmobile looks and drop a V8 under the Hood STANDARD. Give it 300HP at the front wheels and you have a winner. Reduce the price to around $28K and this car will fly out the lots...

'Nuff said.

ezrapon · February 2001

If was to get real serious (rich) about building an engine for this thing, I believe I might do it without the s/c. Heads, cam, pistons, blueprinting, etc. Then again... one could probably shoehorn in a Northstar STS powertrain with a base of 300 hp and a better transaxle and then go from there with 2 more pistons to play with. Just dreaming out loud.

refiner · February 2001

Emailed Superchip they told me to check back in 4 to 6 months. Like the old saying the checks in the mail.I think were beating a dead horse with this company. How about the paint
job on the saltflat Bonneville.Incredible

theiceman · February 2001

Even insiders were stunned by the Oldsmobile announcement and the lack of details coming out with the announcement might indicate that the GM bean-counters are holding sway and they'll be leaving it up to the Execs to battle it out. Apparently, there's a lot of talk about WHERE to put the Aurora, not to drop it all together. Even the Intrigue and Alero are models that are being considered for salvage. Problem is, I think that GM will be left with too many cars covering the same market niches - leaving them with a seriously high per-car manufacturing cost. This is one area where the imports have it hands-down over the big 3.

The Aurora is one darned-fine car and should be kept - but where? Cadillac? They already have the Catera and the STS. Buick? Hard to see it fitting there but I think you'll find that the demographics are closer to the Aurora's than Pontiac's would be. GM likes these flagship cars to bring people and add excitement to its dealerships. Would the Aurora do more for Pontiac or Buick or would it just cannibalize from existing lines?

Given that there's recently been an up-in-the-air-edness about the Bonneville's future, I wouldn't be surprised by some melding together of the Aurora and Bonneville. Teo's musings notwithstanding, if the Northstar makes it way over to the Pontiac line, I've heard that IT might be available in two trims: Aurora STS and Aurora SSE - guesses which of these will have the Northstar. If the Bonneville's sales continue to improve, they COULD invest in re-engineering it for the Northstar but if the Aurora comes over as the flagship, don't count on any further investment in the Bonnie. I'm afraid that the Olds announcement muddies rather than clears the picture for the Bonneville.

Any thoughts on this? (let's try to ignore, for the present, that GM is a company - like most - that's run by its financentric elements rather than enthusiasts)

theiceman · February 2001

I met a fellow 2000 Bonneville owner at the gas station yesterday. This guy was just staring at my car and finally came over. I was standing in front of the SLE badge so he had to ask - I'm getting a little fatigued from apologizing for the fact that mine isn't SC'ed. (a friend has offered to replace my SLE badges with SSEi's but I think that THAT would raise way too many other questions - not to mention the ire of you guys out there)

His SSEi is still under warranty but is already modified: air intake, custom exhaust and SC pulley - he mentionned 3 1/3 in. as the diameter for that. He knows a machinist and had it custom made (on a metal lathe or CNC, one assumes) from cast aluminum. I don't know if the dimension he quotes is inside or outside diameter and I didn't ask him what he's doing about a belt but I DID tell him about this forum - he seemed interested and hopefully, he'll join us.

teo · February 2001

At somepoint it was believed that the Aurora would go to the Buick division.....then i read about rumors of it going over the Chevy division (Remember that Chevy is the only GM division that doesn't offer a G-body platform sedan, making the Pontiac Bonneville the entry level offering on this platform) and then that the Aurora might get discontinued for good....who knows???

tpken · February 2001

may end up replacing Aurora in my opinion. The Park Ave is apparently going away and the LaCrosse is the replacement - pics show a car that is much more aggressive looking (50's retro)than present Park and could easily replace both of those cars - leaving Bonnie at Pontiac with the V-8 powered SSEi as a logical top end model.

All speculation is fun and interesting - but when the rubber meets the road, the numbers are going to have to be there because stockholders rule!

Sorry guys - got to stand up for my fellow bean counters (Don't throw eggs at me please!)

Ken

ezrapon · February 2001

The aurora would make sense at Buick. It would be a nice filler for the defunct Riviera, but why did the Riv fail? I always thought they were cool cars, especially with the s/c 3.8. GM seems to be reverting to their mid 70's thinking with name plate switching as the only difference between cars. With that in mind, it would seem the whole Old product line should die an honorable death to avoid the name plate glut. With the Firebird/Camaro deaths upcoming, a lot of shuffling is sure to take place in the next 2 years.

theiceman · February 2001

I guess that the only reason why we're discussing the Aurora in the Bonneville forum is that it is a fellow G-body and it's ultimate destination COULD affect the future of the Bonneville.

Notwithstanding the Aurora influence, one would assume that (saner minds prevailing, of course) the Bonneville's future will be secure as long as the sales are there. My concern is that the PROSPECT of a line shake-up coupled with the GM-wide sales downturn COULD choke the investment in Bonnie necessary to keep it competitive. I guess we'll get signs of Pontiac's commitment to the Bonneville in about 6 months when we learn what, if anything, will be changing for '02.

theiceman · February 2001

I had a similar problem years ago in a late 80's Mazda and NEVER got the problem satisfactorily resolved. I finally agreed with the diagnosis that it was a circuitry problem and I replaced the radio. Everything worked fine for the following year before I sold THAT car.

ezrapon · February 2001

Like the caprice before it, the Bonneville will soldier on for decades to come while the aurora will fall by the wayside. The aurora fills a niche that either does not exist or is glutted with too many cars. The bonnie, thanks to the lowly se model, will continue on as the darling of fleet sales... how many auroas do you see in rental fleets? The caprice lasted for years past its prime due to this same fact... strong fleet sales... thank you se... you will save my SSEi's [non-permissible content removed].

theiceman · February 2001

Well said Roger.

smfran · February 2001

Another fact to keep in mind is that percentage wise, the Bonneville has the highest repeat ownership of all makes/models. I myself have had five.

tpken · February 2001

I've had it a month now and am really enjoying it (with a few previously mentioned situations to be fixed under wty). I don't see very many around though - in fact it appears to be far more rare than the Impala which I've seen scores of since the first of the year. SSEi is even more scarce - not even one a week. I wonder where Bonneville is selling in large numbers. Surely not the Boston north area.

Ken

hardesty · February 2001

As an owner of a 2K1 AV8, I would love to see Pontiac get the Aurora powertrains. One very nice thing about the 4.0L V8 is that it uses the 4T80E transaxle, which can handle a lot more power than the stock engine produces. There is no question about fitting it in, as the SSEi and AV8 are virtually the same underneath. I don't see the Aurora in its current form going anywhere else, it looks like an Oldsmobile! Even if GM gives Chevy a G-body car, it would have to look like a Chevy.

vtech83 · February 2001

As a new 2001 LeSabre Limited owner, I poke around the other G-body forums from time to time. I was considering the Aurora V8, but at the time, I couldn't get a price I liked. The Aurora is also a little limited in trunk space, compared to the Bonneville and LeSabre anyway.

Other than that, the Aurora is a great car and I would hate to see it disappear from the GM lineup completely. Hard to say where it would fit in, though. I don't see Chevy getting it; the Aurora is a little too upscale for that division. Pontiac might land it, but I don't see Pontiac carrying both the Bonneville and Aurora in their product lines.

Buick might find a home for the Aurora, but the styling would have to change a little. Then again, would they have the LeSabre and Aurora in their product line??? Who knows. Personally, I don't know why they continue to carry the LeSabre and Park Avenue at the same time. The LeSabre Limited, fully optioned, has virtually every option the Park Avenue Ultra has, sans the good old Eaton M90, for about $10,000 cheaper

Initially, I think most Olds buyers will start heading for Buick. In light of that, if GM keeps the Aurora, it would probably wander over in that direction. If Buick were smart, they would dump the Rendezvous, and pick up the Olds Bravada. Nice truck.

Enjoy your Bonnevilles, everyone.

- vtech83

ezrapon · February 2001

Again, if Buick could not keep the "legendary" Riviera afloat, they don't stand a chance with the un-buick like aurora. I think we can safely right off the entire Olds line, however, why not keep the powertrain set ups? The 2 little Northstar drivetrain systems could be the replacement for the sturdy but outdated 3.8 across the entire GM line especially the Park, Lesabre, and Bonneville. I keep looking for a decent deal on a Ultra to replace my SSEi... the rattles have gotten the best of me. Too bad someone doesn't hit a deer and need a good Bonnie.

vtech83 · February 2001

ezrapon:

If Buick built a LeSabre outfitted with the Aurora goodies (NorthStar V8, 4T80E, 17-inch wheels/tires, REAL buckets with a floor shifter), I'd buy one tomorrow.

I think the Riveria fell victim to a lack of interest in big 2-door cars. Buick should have turned the Riveria into a rag-top; that probably would have kept it alive.

Who knows what GM will do. They still think that Camaro/Firebird owners are going to start buying souped up Chevy trucks. As a former Trans Am and Corvette owner, I can tell you right now that strategy won't fly.

- vtech83

tpken · February 2001

Don't forget the name for that kick a@@ Buick - it's got to be a screaming WILDCAT!!

Ken

djohn81641 · February 2001

I want to thank everyone for their imput, as I was deciding between a used SSEi and a dealer demo. You will be happy to know the used SSEi won, and I am thrilled with the car. It is a blast to drive and I got a good deal. Now that I have this black beauty, I want to keep the paint in pristine condition. Should I avoid the automatic, brushless carwashes, and go for the hand washes, when it is too cold in NY do to it myself? What is a good wax, to maintain the glossy showroom look? Thanks for your help.

tpken · February 2001

Best wishes for a long and enjoyable ownership experience with your new 'Black Beauty'. There's nothing like sliding into the (leather) seat of your new ride.

Please keep us posted on your experiences.

Ken

vtech83 · February 2001

Congrats on the SSEi.

As far as washing your car, I would opt for the self-service type of wash, the places where you spray on the soap and rinse it off yourself. I've been told that even brushless car washes use harsh detergents and chemicals that can damage your paint.

I've been using the Meguiars Mirrow Glaze line of products for years and have been very happy with the results. Use the #7 Show Car Glaze to bring out the shine and then a couple coats of #26 Hi-Tech Yellow Wax to protect the finish. They also make a product called #34 Final Inspection you can use for shining your car quickly after a rainstorm or after washing. Only works if you have a good coat of wax on the car in the first place. Get yourself a load of good quality terry cloth towels for polishing and waxing the black beauty.

Zaino polishes also come highly recommended, but you have to order their stuff, it's not sold at any auto parts store. Also, Zaino doesn't have any kind of wax product, so I would be a little concerned about paint protection.

Good luck.

hardesty · February 2001

Just saw the news that GM plans to cut production at Lake Orion (LeSabre, Park Avenue, Bonneville, and Aurora) by 25% by spring. Since the Aurora is currently less than 10% of production at the plant, even stopping production on it means a big cut for Buick and Pontiac. IMHO, the G-body is the best GM sedan, and a damn good car period. I hate when people screw up a sure thing because they don't know what they have, or how to let people that it exists.

smfran · February 2001

The reason Buick offers both the LeSabre and the Park Avenue is obvious. The LeSabre is smaller, has less luxury options, and costs less. It clearly is in a different class and price range.
However, I do agree with you that Buick should dump the Rondevous. A vehicle of this type does not fit in to the Buick lineup. But, I also don't think an SUV like the Bravada fits in either. I also don't think it fit in with Oldsmobile and that may be the reason it didn't sell that well.
I'd like to see a larger, sportier "Bravada" as a Pontiac. Something less in size and cost than a Danali/Escalade.

smfran · February 2001

Ken - Thanks for reminding me about the Wildcat; basically a two door sportier Lesabre. That was quite a car!
Also, what else can you tell me about the Buick LaCrosse and where can I see the pictures you talk about?

theiceman · February 2001

Welcome to what my Scottish friends would no doubt cringe at my calling a "Bonny world". I too recommend Meguiars products but do not share vtech's aversion to touchless car washes. Of course, my finish is dark bronzemist and will hide dulling and small scratches way better than black. But it'll never look as sharp as yours at night. Congrats again - I hope your Bonneville experience is as positive as mine!

Ya want pix of the Lacrosse Stephen? Check out http://www.speedycars.net/wallpaper/buick_lacrosse.html ... a site which promises to deliver more wallpapers of cars but no Bonnevilles as of yet

or buick's own site at href=http://www.buick.com/home/aboutbuick/future.html. While we're on the subject, does anybody have a URL for wallpapers of the current Bonneville? I've cobbled a couple together myself but because I'm starting with low-res pix, the results are just barely acceptable - I need to get rid of the Jag S-car wallpaper (installed to please my wife - although doesn't entirely displease me, it does seem...well, traitorous).

Ya know what else? I was recently do some research on plastics and came across a Greenpeace document on PVC's which - get this! - extolled the 2000 Bonneville as being the first N. American car to use a "soft polyolefin skin" in place of PVC for "full instrument panel design." Apparently, we Bonnie owners are just a bunch of cutting edge environmentalists. Anyway, the benefits of not using PVC is the reduction or elimination of cracking, warping, fading and that window fogging from leaching over time. Hmmm...

smfran · February 2001

By checking out the LaCrosse I don't think it can be a replacement for the Park Ave. It doesn't appear to fit the same demographic. My 71 year old father drives a '98 Park Ave and is in the market for another. I don't think he would be interested in something as "racy" as a LaCrosse. Also, these concept cars take a long time to hit the market and I think the Park Ave. is going nowhere. Have there been any actual reports of the Park Ave being discontinued?
The LaCrosse does look like something that may attract a Bonneville owner looking for a change; like ezrapon or possibly me. By the way Roger, if you are serious, have you contacted the deer hunter?

Pontiac Bonneville

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