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Cadillac DeVille

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  • I saw a 2006 DTS in Gold today, in my opinion it is a more attractive car by a small margin than my 2004 Deville in light bronze mist(same appearance as the 2005) but not by a large margin. I owned a 1998 in Gold and I also liked the appearance better than my 2004. The 2004 is a little smaller but has a slightly larger wheel base than the 98.
    The 2004 is also a very attractive car so may just be a matter of personal preference.
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    Your 2004 is on a different platform than the 98 was, a stiffer platform. The 2006 is an upgraded but much the same platform as the 2005 DeVille, which was on the new platform in model year 2000.
  • Please see my previous posts for background. I went for a routine oil change today (4 months 3,500 miles). I mentioned to the technician that the car had been repaired with an oil filter adapter gasket. I watched as they put the car on the lift and went underneath with the technician. To my surprise. same type of leak! Since I had an appointment I let the technician do the oil change but now have to decide how to deal with the Cadillac/ GM dealership. The car was bought from a highly regarded independent used car dealer in my community (same location and family ownership 35 years). It is still on original warranty through July of 2007. In that the GM dealership has never resolved any problem presented to them, I now need to get tough. The car has had two previous visits for the oil leak and three visits for a quirky cruise neither problem resolved after five visits (three for cruise and two for oil leak). I am prepared to live with the quirky cruise control but the oil leak while just a drop or two could be a problem when trying to negotiate a trade in, not to mention the stains on driveways and garage floor.
    MY QUESTION IS: How can I get tough and get results? I will get in touch with my state attorney generals office, consumer protection unit, GM corporate, and perhaps the owner of the dealership who tends not to like getting involved with customers. Do any of you other owners have suggestions as to how to get maximum results in a minimum of time spent? All responses appreciated.
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    I don't know, but it seems to me that you will have to go back to the selling dealer with regard to any lemon law difficulty that you are having with the car. Certainly the Cadillac dealer did not sell you the car, so they are not responsible, and really don't have to do the warranty work either as the original dealership should be held responsible for that.

    Your oil leak might be elsewhere, I don't know. My Aurora had an oil leak on a valve cover.
  • I spoke with Cadillac today and they opened what they referred to as a case file and called the local Cadillac dealer and made an appointment for me to go in and get the matter taken care of. In addition they promised to keep the file open until the matter is resolved. They went through a detailed interview process to gather the information regarding the oil leak. I don't know what the outcome will be but we will have to wait and see. They didn't even ask who I bought the car from so long as it is under warranty, I am covered. I have not checked with my state consumer protection agency yet regarding lemon laws here, hopefully it will not go that far. I suspect we would try to resolve the issue at the next nearest dealership if not resolved at the local Cadillac dealer.
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    Well I hope that you will give your Cadillac dealer enough time to work on the problems until he either fixes them or gives up. You seem to feel that your time is much too valuable to spend getting your car fixed.

    As long as your car is under warranty, the Cadillac division of GM is required to provide service; however, the dealer that sold the car new, or used, is the one who should provide the service. That does not mean however, that other dealers can't provide service.

    The lemon law varies from state to state and you will probably need a lawyer if you want a refund. A "lemon law" search on the internet will provide some information.
  • Please reread your post 2052 in which you said "to bad your to busy to enjoy life" And I said in post 2053 " I am busy enjoying life and sitting around a dealership is not for me what is enjoyment" I will spend the time at the dealership if I have to but there are more fun things to do with my time. Considering that this will be my third visit am hoping that the matter will be resolved this time
    but will spend what ever time I need to resolve the repair.
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    My only response is for you to look at your post # 1625. :(
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    no need to make things personal ...

    :confuse:
  • THANK YOU! I totally agree. I have tried to keep my posts about the car, the company and any issues in this regard. I hope you will continue to monitor this page even though it is only a small minority of the posts that get personal
    and in my opinion counter productive. I will also monitor my posts to practice what I preach.
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    My intent was to remind bremertong that he did not let his Cadillac dealer work on the cruise control problem until it was fixed, and in particular, did not let a factory representative look at it when they asked him to. It seems to me that if a factory representative is interested in the problem, one should at least make an effort to get factory level help in solving a problem, even if it is somewhat inconvenient to do so.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Now you both can go back to your respective corners. ;)

    Let's just talk about the cars and not keep on about what others should have done or what anyone meant. If we are talking about the cars, there won't be any reason for anyone to take anything personally, after all. :)
  • geo9geo9 Posts: 739
    On the last leg of my trip to Daytona Beach, weather has been great and my 03 Deville just turned 37k miles.
    Bikes, babes, booze everywhere !

    BREM......My cruise has worked great ! Either it healed
    itself or I am getting better at pushing the buttons !
    Averaged 25 mpg or better (rough estimate...don't care
    anyhoo)!

    Keep on them about your oil leak but don't fret over
    it! Just drive and enjoy...........

    I could NEVER imagine my everyday car being anything
    but a CADILLAC !
    But I still enjoy my truck, Z-28, GTO, & Triumph too!

    Yes its a sickness................ :shades:
  • bremertongbremertong Posts: 436
    Glad your enjoying your car. I like mine too although the oil leak is of some concern. The local Cadillac dealership proposes to seal lower crank case and do a complete engine reseal.
    This involves keeping the car in the shop for at least three days. I have put an oil pan in the garage and white paper towels over it. So far not a drop of oil has leaked in a weeks time. If there is a leak it is a very small and slow one. Previously the dealership had replaced the oil filter adapter gasket, perhaps the moisture most recently observed is a residue of the last leak and not a new one. In that the car is fully warranted until summer of 2007 I am in no rush to have such extensive work done. May have independent but highly respected mechanic in the area do a visual inspection to decide how serious the leak is and how soon I need to have it repaired. Your up beat post came at just the right time as I have been pondering my next step to resolve this issue.
  • geo9geo9 Posts: 739
    Let it ride for a while and keep a eye on it!
    Call the service mgr. at the dealer and tell
    him so and suggest that another dye test be
    done in the future.

    Heck its already documented anyhoo and you have
    plenty of warranty left..............

    I note on other Caddy forums about the Northstar
    oil leaks and/or usage.............
    Mine use oil????? Not a clue...Don't care as long
    as I get my 5-6 years of hard troublefree service!

    Life is too short !!!! :shades:
  • bremertongbremertong Posts: 436
    Very good and practical advice. Given the close to year and a half left on the warranty I am in no rush to do anything. Any idea how I should handle the issue if I should decide to trade the car before the warranty expires?
    The independent dealership I bought the car from said he would not penalize for the leak if traded and still under the original warranty. If I were to trade elsewhere am wondering how best to deal with the issue. This assumes that there is no more visible leaking on the garage floor.
    I would assume it is the responsibility of any dealership to assess a trade before they take the car in but any input and advice appreciated. Like yourself I don't check oil levels very often between changes. This generation of Northstar doesn't seem to burn oil as my 98 Deville. Would add 1 quart for every 1500 miles driven on the 98.
  • geo9geo9 Posts: 739
    Use the old "don't ask, don't tell" routine when
    you trade it to the dealer. Chances are they will
    lowball you anyhoo and send it off to auction.....

    Private sale would be different.............
    I don't need the private sale hassle. The dealer
    is gonna make alll the money, so let them have the
    hassle.................
  • dispencer1dispencer1 Posts: 489
    Remember to get a "Certified" Cadillac from a GM dealer. It will cost $1500 to certify the car (it used to cost a thousand)unless you buy a trade in that had been certified but that is cheaper than buying a new one and paying for the 100k mile 6 yr GM Protection Plan. The same extended warranty (6/100) on the certification begins when the car was first put into service so you should check not only the mileage but the start date if you have several to choose from. Certification also includes (at least mine did) 4 new Michelin tires. I own an '03 and when the warranty runs out in 2008 I'll definately get a certified DTS. This is the only way to go. Repairs are expensive on Cadillacs (and everything else) and these cars are complex. It is a lot nicer to have a bumper to bumper warranty for 100k miles.
  • dispencer1dispencer1 Posts: 489
    The opinion of CU is that one should avoid the 00-03 (and 05) Devilles as used cars because of their bad reliability record. My '03 (a terrible year according to CU) just turned 50,000 miles with no warranty work other than a new radio early on (CDs were skipping) and repair of a wind noise (which involved parts and labor worth about $900). The car gets about 16 in town and 28-31 on the road (depending on the tailwind) and has been pretty much troublefree. I also recently sold an '01 Malibu (another one of CU's troublesome cars) at 90k miles. During its life it required an intake manifold gasket, an ignition module, and a couple of sets of brakes. Big deal. I feel that the people who are sending the questionnaire back to CU are mainly the people with problems. I'd rather get advice on what cars are reliable from dealership mechanics who actually work on them. These folks can be your best friends if you need advice. Of course CU loves anything Japanese. The Lexus and Avalon are the greatest cars ever built. CU conveniently omits any mention of the astronomical maintenance costs for these cars if you follow the book. Drop by a Lexus service department sometime and look at the maintenance "recommendations" up on the wall just for laughs. I do follow the book and I can't afford a Lexus!
  • bremertongbremertong Posts: 436
    Yes I agree, have never tried to sell a car myself. As you said and it makes sense, it's up to the dealer to assess the cars condition at the time of the trade not mine. Was out in windy rainy weather today and the car handled just great, I have enjoyed both my Cadillacs!
  • bremertongbremertong Posts: 436
    Have any of the recent Deville (model years 2000 -2005)owners driven and or bought one the the new Cadillac DTS autos? Since this is the successor to the Deville am curious as to how the car compares with the 2000 - 2005 Deville.
  • geo9geo9 Posts: 739
    BREM.........Been wanting to check one out up
    close. The "refresh" looks pretty good.......

    Weather here in central NY has been miserable for
    looking or test driving a new DTS up close !
    I HATE to bug a poor sales person for a test ride
    if I am not interested in buying soon.

    I am drooling for the new GM 07 2500 pickup to roll
    out tho.! But will have to wait till next spring
    when GM rolls them out. But with their money troubles
    I am sure they will push them out sooner than that !
    I WILL have one ASAP !
    My poor truck takes a whippin' heavy towing, snowplowing,
    and hauling so I dump them every 3 years !!!!!!!!
    My 03 Caddy will be around till 08 at least.

    Get your oil leak issue settled yet?
  • bremertongbremertong Posts: 436
    There is almost no leaking at this point so the change of the oil filter adapter gasket may have resolved but will need a little more time to see.

    I generally trade up every three years so will be following the new DTS to see how it compares in various aspects with the Deville.
  • Have the opportunity to pickup a very well cared for 95 Cadillac Concours w/Northstar -- 72K miles, inside and out immaculate, no apparent leaks -- very clean but engine compartment not detailed to cover up anything, so trust what I see is indeed the current state of things. The dealer pulled records for me and initially at least appears to have been well cared for with coolant flushes, tranny, etc. Ziebarted with no signs of rust anywhere underneath. New H2O pump and AC compressor this last month.

    Realized that the back left speakers are not working. Assume it's a stock Delco CD/Cassette AM FM radio (doesn't say Bose on the face)-- don't know if it's a connection problem, an amp problem in the radio . . . or ? nor how much that might cost.

    It does have a factory sunroof, which I'd just as soon not have (I'm 6'2" and hit my head on the headliner in most cars, but is room in this one with seat down) -- are their sunroofs reliable and leak free over the long haul?

    I AM concerned about reliability of the Northstar over the long haul -- I keep cars for a very long time -- do all my own work, but have no experience on Northstars. Was talking with a very well know engine rebuilder here in Dayton OH that cautioned me about their tendency to lose threads (head bolts) -- have to drill out and put in helix to repair . . . with possible ongoing problems. (Said to set aside $3-4K if I ever had them pull it to redo the heads) But then again I hear overall they're a decent engine . . . ?

    I realize, alot depends on the driver. My 73 Toronado was written up by CU (way back then) as a car to stay away from. Still have mine (but as a station wagon now) and have had no significant problems! . . . but then again, do all my own maintenance, repairs and rebuilds.

    Sooo would like to hear from those of you that have first hand experience with the Concours (or Northstar engine)-- please let me know the level of maintenance -- self, dealer or independent -- and what problems you've had OR not had.

    Also, I'm get conflicting comments as to using regular or premium . . . or plus fuel. One very well respected business operator said that running it on regular would not harm the engine . . . BUT, most realized enough mileage incease using the plus to justified the increase cost. How about it? What's your experience? What about the computer(s), ABS, suspension, cooling, AC, electrical, etc. Thanks!!!

    Now all that said, a neighbor has a 94 Cadillac Deville (not Concours) 106K miles but without the Northstar engine . . . (she's asking $5000 . . . which tho always garaged and taken care of . . . I think is too much. AND, the lady with the 95 Concours wants $6000, which here again, b/c of the soft car market I think is too much as well.)

    Again, Thanks!
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    I think that the northstar's problems with head bolts is related to coolant leaks around the head gaskets. So, it is important to monitor the coolant level and have any loss checked out. One does not want the water pump to fail with the engine overheating as a result. The engine will not be damaged from overheating, but the head gaskets may fail. Aluminum engines are a mixed bag.

    First generation northstars (built from 1993-1999) were designed for premium, but may get by ok on lower octane fuel. Second generation northstars will run on regular, but produce maximum performance on premium. Difference in price is 20 cents per gallon here, and that is two hundred dollars on 1000 gallons, which should give you about 20,000 miles of travel. I average about 23 to 24 MPG running about, so for me, 1000 gallons is about two years of driving.
  • bolivarbolivar Posts: 2,316
    I had a 95 Concours, bought at 12,000 miles, a 2-year lease return car. I got a Cadillac 'certified' warranty which took it to 5 years total. Sold it when it went out of this extended warranty, only about 33,000 miles then.

    This car, especially for such a low milage car, had lots of problems. Because of the certified warranty, it never cost me a dime. My wife loved it, and the second one I bought, but they scare me to death.

    The 95:
    Traction Control error light, dealer said it was a 'loose connection'.
    It ate batterys, dead if car not driven daily. Dealer fixed by replacing the radio(???), but this stopped dead battery.
    Interior lights stayed on. Dealer replaced 2 or 3 relays or whatever. When I got it home and got out of it, the lights stayed on. Dealer replaced some other relays or something. These repairs took 3 or 4 days each.
    When I got it home, it leaked a puddle of antifreeze before I moved it into the garage. Took it back, they replaced water pump in about 45 minutes. Pump in stock and done quick, because they fail a lot I figgered.
    Windshield was not sealed for about 8 inches across the bottom, cold air blew in on my hands while driving it. Glass place said it was a replacement glass, asked if it was a lease car, said they have glass places replace broken glass while they are sitting in the big auction lots, right out in the open. He got the glass out without breaking and resealed it.
    Door lock switch on drive door just 'pushed into the door panel'. I looked at this when they were fixing, the plastic clips on the inside had broken and it had been repaired by duct taping the switch to the panel.
    Motor made what I surely though was 'stuck lifter click'. I've since found out that it was probably a carbon buildup on a piston. Dealer repaired, probably by driving the heck out of it and busting the carbon loose. The noise came back just as I was selling it. Using premimum gas causes this buildup, (the carbon knock), and excessive use of oil (caused by carbon stuck oil rings). Aggessive acceleration, often, will keep the carbon buildup on the cylinder top and rings reduced and help both these problems. Oh, yes, the 95 also developed high oil use (1 quart in about 600 miles), but this dropped off when the dealer worked on the carbon knock.
    There seems to have been more problems, but I don't remember them just now.

    The Northstar head gaskets leaks are not caused by failing water pumps. Some just pull threads or whatever on the head bolts. And yes, the motors must be pulled, the 20 head bolts drilled out (for heaven sakes do both heads if you have the motor out) threads tapped and inserts called Timeserts installed. This should permanently cure the gasket problem because the inserts will hold. And this costs big money 3/4,000 dollars.

    Another big dollar problem can be a relay deep in the transmission which requires a motor and tranny pull and significant disassembly to get to the switch. If this fails, the lockup overdrive on the tranny is gone.

    The Concours will have the electronic variable struts. About $750 plus labor each for factory replacement. There is not an aftermarket electronic replacement. There are companys that sell modified Monroe shocks (have to add Caddy mounting) and an electric resistor to plug into the wiring for each wheel that supposed to work and keep the error message from appearing. Some people have good luck with these, some never get the error message to stop.

    And, with the other electronics, there can be problems.
    And yes, I think the prices on both the cars you described are high. I think the 94 would be a $2,500 car, the 95 Concours a $3,500 car.

    Caddys are great in many ways. The Northstar, even the smaller 275hp one, is very strong and sounds great and runs and accelerates great. It cruises great. Great air conditioners.

    Many people drive for 200,000 miles with little problems. Others have lots and lots of problems. I feel that overall, they are high-maintenance cars.
  • geo9geo9 Posts: 739
    I had a 96 DeVille bought new. Drove it till 02
    without a whimper and 100k plus miles..........

    The only major repair was a fuel pump and it needed
    those $pendy ($2500 installed...not done) front struts.
    So I traded it in for my 03.

    Don't let the "timesert" issue scare you. These are
    only done if/when the heads are pulled.

    A check over by a good mechanic and a cooling system
    pressure check (which should be done on ANY used car!)
    It will prob. give you some good service down the road!
  • bolivarbolivar Posts: 2,316
    Just relating what happened with my 95 Concours from about 13,000 to 33,000 miles and about 3 years.
  • geo9geo9 Posts: 739
    Thats cool Bolivar ! Its just weird........ 1 person
    has 0 problems and another has many !

    I guess its the luck of the draw eh?
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    My 2002 Seville LS had the torque converter lockup fail, which required the transaxle to be removed so that it could be taken apart. This also means that the engine is removed. The job is a full day (overnight) and so is expensive in terms of labor. My car is still under warranty. However, the Cadillac dealer is new, a Chevy dealer that recently got the franchise when the old Cadillac-Oldsmobile-GMC dealer went out of business; and they put the wrong gasket in when putting the transmission back together, so the car went back for another overnighter. I think that for most FWD cars, transmission work probably involves removal of the engine/transaxle to get to the transmission.

    My 98 Aurora (which had a small northstar) did have a water pump rebuild. I noticed that there was coolant leaking and brought it in saying that the water pump was failing. They replaced the bearing and perhaps other parts.

    Someone I know with a 1999 DeVille had a water pump failure, with the engine getting hot, his first clue that the water pump was broken. They fixed it, after he had the car towed in rather than drive it the few miles to the dealership. However, sometime after that the computer notified him that the coolant level was low. The dealership filled it up. A while later (perhaps months) the computer said I'm low on coolant again. This time the dealership did some checking and determined that the head gaskets were leaking coolant. They took it apart, but were not able to put the engine back together, I think because there was too much corrosion. The car was covered by an after market warranty that would only cover the gaskets, not the engine. Cadillac covered part of the engine replacement - the old engine had about 70,000 miles on it. The though was that the engine getting hot when the water pump failed probably caused the head gasket to fail. However, the gasket was probably faulty for some reason in the first place.

    From the stand point of cost, the cast iron 3800 is probably the best choice for a used engine in an aging car for upkeep.
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