Volkswagen Jetta 2005 and earlier

chmeeee · February 2003

The manual transmission feels better to me than most manual cars I have driven. It is far better than the 5 speed in my father's Outback, better than the Focus I drove, the Saab 9-3, and about the same as the BMW 325i, which had better throws but felt far less smooth.

christine21 · February 2003

I just called my VW dealership about the lint problem I am having in my jetta, before I clicked on this board, and they said it should stop collecting so much lint in about a year...I HATE the cloth interior in the Jetta! Guess I am not the only one. I will never buy a cloth interior again - well actually, a volkswagon ever again. No - the sticky lint brush does not work that great. That red cloth lint brush works the best - but it does not hold very much - I spent two hours getting most of the lint off my seats on sunday - fun!

I also noticed that the black piece below the passengers window (inside) started to bubble up...I am taking it in to get looked at- but you may want keep an eye out for that too.

teri12 · February 2003

The 1998 Cavalier Z24 does 0-60 in 7.2 seconds with manual. The 2003 Jetta VR6 does 0-60 in 5.78 seconds. Some people never raced another car and don't know what they are doing. Another thing is that some people don't know the comparison of using a regular manual and a Tiptronic manual. In a Tiptronic manual you switch gears alot faster with barely using your thumb. Also some people don't push the gas pedal all the way down when they speed. They don't know the true acceleration of their car. And unless you have driven a 1998 Cavalier Z24 and a 2003 Jetta VR6 you can't compare or comment. Take these cars on a level stretch. 1. Hold brake and rev engine. 2. Release brake. 3. Pedal to the metal (gas pedal actually hits the floor mat).
4. Start your stopwatch. 5. When you hit 60 mph, stop stopwatch. Don't be a sissy and switch gears at 4500 RPMs (I switched at 5800 RPMs). DRIVER, and knowledge of how to race helps. Manufacturer quotes on 0-60 is a guideline. Don't rely on that information as set in stone. Do a test drive and don't be afraid on seeing the true performance of the vehicle. Like I said, I wasn't using automatic, I was using the Tiptronic manual on the VR6 (much faster and smoother switching gears) and regular manual with the Z24. Big difference. Any ways, this car rocks! Ho, ho. This car is a keeper. Both are all stock. I have a Bumper to Bumper warranty 5 years 150,000. To much people saying negative crap about VW got me paranoid with my 1st purchase. But, hey! 11,000 miles and no problems yet. Z24 has 120,000 miles and works like I dorve it off the lot. Some people get lemons...and some people like me, are just plain lucky.

Anakin · February 2003

Holding the brake while applying gas is called brake torquing.

Pretty soon you'll be in here complaining about a blown tranny. Don't say I didn't warn you.

blueguydotcom · February 2003

Another thing is that some people don't know the comparison of using a regular manual and a Tiptronic manual.

VW's (actually Porsche's) tiptronic is nothing more than an automatic transmission that allows people to shift among the gears. It's still got a torque converter, it still robs more power than a standard and it's still slower than a manual.

In a Tiptronic manual you switch gears alot faster with barely using your thumb.

You press the button quickly but there's a decided hesitation, even in a 911, between shifts. Tap the button, the car's fuzzy logic determines the shift won't damage the car and then it shifts.

The Tiptronic is 1980s Porsche technology (they created it specifically for LA/CA drivers who comprise 50% of the American buyers). It's nothing special and oft imitated in 2003. Just about every manufacturer claiming sporting intentions with an automatic now has some variant...BMW, MB, Dodge, Ford, Mazda, Nissan, Toyota, Honda all have some version of an old school auto with push button shifting.

If you want something that can really give a manual a run for its money look to Sequential Manual Gearboxes/Transmissions from Aston Martin, BMW and Ferrari. Those are legit manuals with computer controlled clutches and lightning fast shifts.

and a 2003 Jetta VR6 you can't compare or comment.

Done so. Smooth car. Spirited acceleration. But unlike the GLI, it's rather limp wristed.
BTW...which VR6 do you have with the tiptronic? Oh, the portly GLX.

Take these cars on a level stretch. 1. Hold brake and rev engine. 2. Release brake. 3. Pedal to the metal (gas pedal actually hits the floor mat).
4. Start your stopwatch. 5. When you hit 60 mph, stop stopwatch. Don't be a sissy and switch gears at 4500 RPMs (I switched at 5800 RPMs).

ROFL...you're working your own stop watch? Yeah, that's scientific and definitely disproves every instrumented test performed on VW's car. MT has a GLI (thus a VR6) with a manual tested at 7.2 for the 0-60 sprint. We're to believe that a guy with his stop watch pulled better numbers than professionals? And did so by over 1 second? And in an automatic? Believe that one, I got a bridge to sell you.

Like I said, I wasn't using automatic, I was using the Tiptronic manual on the VR6 (much faster and smoother switching gears)

No, you were using an automatic. You were using the video game technology of a Tiptronic but it's still an automatic. you've got a torque converter and no clutch...that sure as heck isn't a manual.

When you build a Jetta GLX as VW.com it lists the tranny as: "5 speed automatic transmission with overdrive, Tiptronic sequential sport shift"

Gee, go figure...an automatic Tiptronic. Oh wait, that's the only kind Porsche (and licensee VW/Audi) has ever made!

adg44 · February 2003

It's a campaign to replace possibly defective parts - there is a difference.

Straight from my post: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=694712

"VOLKSWAGEN AND AUDI TO REPLACE ALL IGNITION COIL PARTS ON 2001, 2002 AND SOME 2003 MODELS

AUBURN HILLS, Mich.  Volkswagen of America, Inc. and Audi of America, Inc. today announced a customer service action in which the companies will ultimately replace the ignition coils in all 2001 and 2002 model year cars equipped with certain engines that have been experiencing a higher-than-normal failure rate. Also affected are very early production 2003 models.

The companies are currently notifying all customers potentially affected and are initially replacing those ignition coils that fail at no cost. The updated customer service action, replacing all ignition coils whether they fail or not, will be implemented in the coming months.

We know that some ignition coils installed in our cars are not up to our high quality standards, and we are determined to do the right thing for our customers. The right thing to do is to fix every single car with these coils by replacing them whether they are broken yet or not. That is exactly what we will do as soon as we have the parts, said Gerd Klauss, president and CEO, Volkswagen of America, Inc.

The vehicles affected in this action include cars equipped with 1.8 liter engines, which includes the Audi TT and A4; and the VW Golf/GTI, Jetta, New Beetle and Passat. The companies also included the Passat W8 engine, all VWs equipped with the 2.8 liter VR6; as well as the Audi 3.0 liter V6 engine. In total, approximately 530,000 cars are affected by this action.

The ignition coils provide electricity to the engines spark plugs during operation. Volkswagen and Audi have recognized through service reports that the ignition coils used in the products listed above have a higher-than-normal failure rate. If an ignition coil fails, the check engine light/malfunction indicator lamp will blink. The cars performance may, in some cases, become rough and/or the engine will lose some power and the car should be taken to an authorized dealer for repair. The engine and its electronic controls are designed to keep the vehicle running. Some deterioration in performance, however, can be expected.

Volkswagen and Audi are announcing the following customer service action:

The supplier is working triple shifts and seven days a week to make as many new parts as possible. Additionally, a second supplier has been activated.

Soon customers will be notified by mail that Volkswagen and Audi will proactively begin replacing all ignition coils in cars potentially affected, whether a failure has occurred or not. This action will begin in the coming months as soon as replacement ignition coil supply volumes will allow.

In order to minimize inconvenience to customers during repair, Volkswagen and Audi dealers will offer alternative transportation at no cost.

Customers with questions should call VW Customer Relations toll-free at (800) 822-8987 or Audi Customer Relations toll-free at (800) 822-2834."

chmeeee · February 2003

Tiptronic is not a manual, its just an automatic that lets you tell it when to switch gears. There is no way it would ever be faster than a manual transmission car, assuming somebody reasonably compentent is working the clutch.

I am not even going to get into the whole stopwatch thing.

You also have to understand, we are not saying the VR6 is slow, it is fun. Just not that fun.

teri12 · February 2003

I had my wife time me lol. She is still shocked how fast this car goes. Yeah its a 5 speed shiftable auto trans. I can only compare driving a Mazda RX-7, Chevy Cavalier Z24, Pontiac Sunfire GT, Nissan Altima 3.5 SE, my friends Corvette, and a Camaro Z28. The Tiptronic shiftable trans is smoother, less effort, more fun and has alot of pep for only 200 HP. MY wife wants to buy another VW. She hates Mazda, Honda and Pontiacs. VW are fun and the VR6 is pretty dang fast. Zero to 60 in 5.78 seconds for a 26k fully loaded luxury car is great. Btw we timed the 0-60 4 times. Worse 0-60 on a straightaway was 6.4 seconds. I had to warm up. Hah!

mdaffron · February 2003

It's a shame VW put off this problem until it was publicized in the media. Makes you wonder whether they did it because it was the right thing to do, or because they got "exposed."

Meade

8u6hfd · February 2003

You forgot Toyota, with the Yaris and the MR-2 Spyder.

target3 · February 2003

as they are replacing ignition coils in all 2001 and 2002 models, whether they fail or not.

8u6hfd · February 2003

At least it's not a recall mandated by the NHTSA. It's a voluntary recall.

vocus · February 2003

I have driven a 2003 VR6 Tiptronic Jetta GLX, thanks. It felt slow and dead compared to the 1.8T tiptronic. My co-worker and a friend each have a 2002 VR6 GLI which I have ridden in. I can believe you got 6.- seconds to 60mph in that, but not an automatic GLX. Not on this planet. Not on your life.

vocus · February 2003

Voluntary. Problems started about 6 months ago, and it could have been a little faster. But at least it's done now.

justin · February 2003

if it helps, i think your GLX is fast. i had a 99 GLS VR6 (old school VR6), and i often went to 70mph in a little over 7 seconds. it was a FOUR SPEED non-Tip automatic.

for sure, your 200hp version is faster than my current 180 hp low torque GLS Tip that i have now. just not sure it is under 6 seconds to 60....

vocus · February 2003

I don't know if you ever tried, but you can either beat or at least stay with the old-school VR6 with the 1.8T. And also, the 1.8T Tiptronic is about .5 seconds (if that) behind the 200hp VR6 in acceleration. Add a $250 chip, and it will smoke the VR6.

justin · February 2003

numbers for 1.8T: 180hp, 172 or 174 lbs of T
old school VR6: 174HP, 182 lbs of T

or something close to that -

yep, the NEW Turbo would be almost identical to the old school VR6. but the NEW VR6 would be faster than the NEW Turbo. i would hope so anyway...

of course, they are all in Geo Metro territory at least 10% of the time when they are only running on 3 (sometimes 2) cylinders. actually, the Metro would be FASTER, since it is much lighter!

nice, huh?

adg44 · February 2003

"I don't know if you ever tried, but you can either beat or at least stay with the old-school VR6 with the 1.8T. And also, the 1.8T Tiptronic is about .5 seconds (if that) behind the 200hp VR6 in acceleration. Add a $250 chip, and it will smoke the VR6."

I beg to differ, being that I owned a 12v VR6 (which wasn't stock - I'll admit it) and an APR chipped 1.8T.

With my GTI, I tore up at Chipped 1.8T from 60-120 MPH, where I pulled over 1.5 car lengths ahead of the 1.8T.

The 1.8T is quicker from 0-60 yes, but the gearing on the 1.8Ts is short, and the VR6 will out pull them at high speeds. The 24v VR6 would do it even better, and I wonder if it would actually take a "chipped" 1.8T from 0-60.

For comparisons sake, with a G-Tech and my GTI with, chip, intake, exhaust, flywheel, power clutch, and a few other small mods, it went 0-60 in just about 6 seconds, about a tick over though. No way your automatic, stock 24v VR6 is doing anything faster than that - sorry. A stop watch is not an accurate way of measuring acceleration. Also, the speedo is about 4-7 MPH fast, so you probably stopped the stopwatch when you were at 55, not 60 - it makes a difference.

- Anthony

stretchsje · February 2003

Timed stopwatch 0-60 runs can be fun, if not educational. They're good for competing against yourself and comparing acceleration after the engine break-in.

beanboy · February 2003

How steep of a hill were you doing your sub 6 second 0-60 runs on?

Anybody know when the next Jetta/Golf is due to arrive?

-B

blueguydotcom · February 2003

VW are fun and the VR6 is pretty dang fast. Zero to 60 in 5.78 seconds for a 26k fully loaded luxury car is great. Btw we timed the 0-60 4 times. Worse 0-60 on a straightaway was 6.4 seconds. I had to warm up. Hah!

A stock GLX can't do it. Plain and simple. No matter how much you insist your brake torqueing technique, it's flat out unreasonable.

Go do your little drag at a meet where they can instrument test the vehicle.

No way in hades is your 3300 lbs automatic 200 HP Jetta hurtling to 60 faster than lighter, more powerful, manual equipped RWD cars. Sorry, not on this planet, in this solar system or possibly on any plane of existence.

Get it instrumented tested...your results will not obliterate all the test data in every major car magazine.

One last thing...a Jetta is not a luxury car. It's a compact 4 door sedan. It's not an Infiniti G35, not an Is300 and certainly not a 3 Series. It's a compact sedan with an old school beam suspension.

malibu99 · February 2003

Hello everyone

I apologize if this question has been discussed before but a friend of mine has a 2001 Jetta and she is having a problem where the back floor on the driver's side develops a water puddle when driven in the rain. Doesn't seem to be coming from the trunk and the dealership says there is no problem with it. Is this a common issue? Any ideas what it could be.? I speculate it could be a drain plug on the floor not sealing but I wanted to ask. Thanks for your help.

justin · February 2003

Jetta is far from a luxury car. but none of the cars mentioned in the same breath as Jetta are "luxury" cars either. and for the money, the Jetta would be the car considered most luxurious, i would think.

chmeeee · February 2003

beanboy: The 5th gen G/J is supposed to arrive for the 2005 model year, last I heard.

malibu: The dealer says their is no problem? I doubt spontaneous puddles was a design feature! I would say try bringing it to another dealer, beacause that one is stupid.

blueguydotcom · February 2003

Jetta is far from a luxury car. but none of the cars mentioned in the same breath as Jetta are "luxury" cars either. and for the money, the Jetta would be the car considered most luxurious, i would think.

justin...one acroynm sums up why the Jetta is not and never will be a luxury car: FWD.

kellan · February 2003

Hey all,

I just bought my first car/Jetta about a month ago, and I love it

I have an automatic '96 GL, with a moonroof, CD player, and I bought it with 57k miles on it. I was lucky enough that my dad had connections and I bought the car for $4500.

I only have a few MINOR complaints on it though.
1.) It seems that whenever I turn the wheel, it sounds that there's like, a piece of plastic inside of it or something, that makes a funny noise.
2.) The thermostat light has been blinking non-stop for the past week or so, even though the car hasn't overheated. It started when I had let the car warm up for 15 mins or so on a cold day, and had the heat turned up. The thermostat meter had barely reached halfway, yet the light started blinking anyway. Now whenever I turn the car on, it blinks, even with the heat off. I think there was ONE time when it hadn't blinked since then. I just get worried that the day when the car DOES overheat, I won't notice. lol.

But other than that!

my jetta

8u6hfd · February 2003

justin...one acroynm sums up why the Jetta is not and never will be a luxury car: FWD.

Can we say the same for Acura, except for the NSX?

justin · February 2003

there are MANY reasons a Jetta is not a luxury car (uh, it can be had with manual windows!!). but the FWD claim doesn't hold up:

FWD takes up less cabin room than the "preferred", but not in reality any better, RWD. to me - more room = more luxury.

i have heard the argument that no FWD car can be a real and true SPORTS car (don't wanna even go there - lots of passionate people in here would beat that topic to death), but never heard that a FWD car cannot be a true LUXURY car.

amazing how people have such different ideas. just curious - is it an age/generation/left coast/right coast thing?

vocus · February 2003

I don't know about your first problem, but I know the flashing temperature light means the coolant is low in the car. Check your owner's manual, or look under the hood where the coolant tank is.

I didn't know what that meant at first when it happend to my car either, but read about it in the manual...

vocus · February 2003

A FWD car will never be able to touch a RWD car for pure handling prowess, no matter how well the suspension is calibrated.

Also, as of 2003, the Jetta can not be had with manual windows or without a CD player.

blueguydotcom · February 2003

Can we say the same for Acura, except for the NSX?

Acura sure as shootin' isn't a luxury car maker. They construct a neat little 10 year old sports car and that's about it. The rest of their cars are FWD people movers based off Accord and Civic platforms. The RL's the biggest joke of their line up - 43k MSRP for a FWD 225 HP sedan that's supposed to compete against the MB E-class, 5 series and GS series. ROFL

amazing how people have such different ideas. just curious - is it an age/generation/left coast/right coast thing?

Justin, we're about the same age (I'm 28). The left coast thing might have something to do with it as the market leaders in the luxury field sell more cars per capita to Californians than people in other states. Same goes for foreign cars. I read the other day that GM and Mopar are ripping their hair out trying to regain marketshare here.

We love our foreign cars here.

I still stand by my assertion that the Jetta is not in any fashion a luxury car. It's a tweener vehicle if anything. Don't want a tinny Civic but not willing to splurge for an overpriced Bavarian sports sedan.

Anakin · February 2003

It's ironic that some of the luxury marques will still stick you with a tape player if you buy the base model.

I think it's inexcusable that ANY automaker would include a tape deck nowadays. CD has been the preferred music format for years. Get with it.

justin · February 2003

BLUE - per your last message:

"I still stand by my assertion that the Jetta is not in any fashion a luxury car. It's a tweener vehicle if anything. Don't want a tinny Civic but not willing to splurge for an overpriced Bavarian sports sedan."

no one is arguing with you! there is not a person on this planet that says a Jetta is a luxury car. doesn't a luxury car have to cost more than an economy car? there are Ford Focus' that cost more than VW Jettas....

VOCUS -

you are saying that a Lexus LS430 can "out handle" an RSX? how are you defining handling "prowess"?

blueguydotcom · February 2003

Yeah it still shocks me that BMW doesn't automatically have a 6 disc player. Weirdness from Germany.

Justin, Teri did assert that the Jetta is a 26k luxury car. Go figure.

target3 · February 2003

it isn't nearly as ugly as the G35. IMO of course.

paulhuang · February 2003

Teri,
I believe the car magazines use automated electronic equipment to measure the 0-60 times. As soon as the car moves, the timing starts, and automatically stops when the equipment (with a laser beam shining on the ground, kind of like an optical mouse) detects the car has reached 60 MPH. They also run the car in opposite directions and average the time to cancel out the effect of wind (of course this only works if the wind is steady).

Your method of measurement introduces too many variables into the measurement:
1. It is likely that you floor the gas, and the person doing the timing starts the stopwatch when he/she feel the car move. The human reaction time is probably shaving 0.5 sec off the 0-60 time. BTW, if I floored the gas on my car, I'd be holding on to the steering wheel in case my car torque-steers, not running a stop-watch; I hope your wife was timing it.
2. Assuming the analog speedometer is EXACTLY on the money (60 on the gauge means car is doing 60), there is the uncertainty of when the stop-watch was stopped. It's possible the stop-watch was stopped early. Another thing to consider, if a passenger is timing, their angle causes them to see different speed readings than the driver. This may take another few tenths off the time.

Maybe you got a REALLY well made VR6 (cars are have variations) and it's faster than the ones the magazines have been driving. Go to a drag strip and find out what the timing slip tells you, that's much more credible than a hand stop-watch timed run. Good luck.

Personally I don't think an automatic VR6 can do 0-60 in less than 6 seconds. I have driven A4s and Passats and must say there is a definite delay between when the shift is commanded and when it is executed. This effect probably cancels out the fact that the automatic might shift faster than a human can (some modded transmissions can shift VERY hard and fast, though I doubt the stock unit does).

wonderwall · February 2003

i just gave you a suggestion in the jetta problems board re: the coolant light flashing. you didn't mention mileage over there, but i'm at 63K on a '97. and just replaced a coolant flange. it was a simple and inexpensive repair.

i have the steering wheel noise issue too. i had the shop look at it once and they put some lubricant on it and it stopped (this was about a year ago) and once it got cold this year it returned. it's nothing to worry about though.

enjoy your car. i love my 1997. i've had good service out of it for the past three years. i'll probably drive it until it is a pile of rust... just realize that VWs alert you to their existance a little more than the average japanese car...

kellan · February 2003

Oh thanks so much guys...I appreciate it! Now I can't stop worrying

kellan · February 2003

I forgot to ask..
About the steering wheel problem - what kind of lubricant should I put on and where abouts exactly did they put it? lol. I'm sorry I'm car-stupid. :-/
Thanks again!
Kellan

tuss · February 2003

How about Audi? Is Audi a luxury car? I could have sworn that they were made as a component of VW--the LUXURY component. Isn't it possible to get an a6 without quattro---and when one does, isn't it . . . fwd? To say that a car has to be fwd to be a luxury vehicle is innane. By that standard, the only luxury vehicle in audi's lineup is the a8---while a $40,000 a6 is just a 'midsize'.

But there's, more, how about the Seville STS, or the Sedan deville--oh yeah, I forgot, they're american, so they can't be luxury vehicles. I guess that the leather and the zebrano wood and the cushy ride make them sports sedans . . .

Not to be facetious, but just to make you think for a second. I respect your opinon, and you're right to believe what you believe. So perhaps we can agree that luxury means differnt things to different people. To you it means a car without fwd, which is fine. To me a luxury car is any car above a certain price point---around 28,000 dollars or so, after which, for many people, to even be able to afford the car would be a luxury--hence, the use of luxury in describing a vehicle. And that's fine--we can agree to differ. By the same token, I think one has to respect an individuals opinion that a jetta is a luxury vehicle---mayble only a vr6 with leather--while a l.8t with cloth isn't--but whatever they feel, I don't believe that any of us can really judge the persons beliefs without actually stepping in their shoes. If someone wants to think a vr6 is a luxury vehicle--who am I to tell them they're wrong. It's a free country.

blueguydotcom · February 2003

How about Audi? Is Audi a luxury car? I could have sworn that they were made as a component of VW--the LUXURY component.

Uh, in my book audi is a VW and therefore worthless. It doesn't rate as luxury. It's a company that aspires to grand things but always falls into the shadows of the true benchmarks from Germany (MB and BMW). think of it as the german equivalent of Acura...a nice try but so far off the mark it's worth only a snicker.

But there's, more, how about the Seville STS, or the Sedan deville--oh yeah, I forgot, they're american, so they can't be luxury vehicles.

amen to that. American cars aren't worth the bits it takes up to write about them.

Not to be facetious, but just to make you think for a second.

Actually you brought up things i briefly considered but passed on for reasons stated above.

To me a luxury car is any car above a certain price point---around 28,000 dollars or so,

That'd include cars like a Grand Prix and Honda Accord. Are we calling a Maxima a luxury car now?

If someone wants to think a vr6 is a luxury vehicle--who am I to tell them they're wrong. It's a free country.

You're entirely right. Mea culpa.

chmeeee · February 2003

I think you are going way over the top on your criticism of car companies. Audi worthless? I think not. American cars not worth the bits it takes to write about them? Yay for worthless generalizations.

blueguydotcom · February 2003

I think you are going way over the top on your criticism of car companies. Audi worthless? I think not. American cars not worth the bits it takes to write about them? Yay for worthless generalizations.

Hey to each his own. But I'm not generalizing in any way. I've driven Audis, American cars and I've taken out their competition. Audis are the Acuras of Luxo cars = wannabes...only they're not even reliable like an Acura. They simply offer nice, albeit cramped, interiors. Nice interiors mixed with questionable build quality and lackluster performance (yes even their S and RS series cars).

As for american...I don't have enough invectives to lobby against american engineers and the horrendous piles of trash they put on the road.

We better veer back toward VW before this gets a slap from the Edmunds thought police.

Anyone else notice during colder weather their Jetta rattles? My rattles come and go with weather shifts. Probably due to the expansion/contraction of the parts.

geoffdgti · February 2003

To me a luxury car is any car above a certain price point---around 28,000 dollars or so,

I agree with the concept but not with the price point. Real luxury cars cost more than twice that amount. Mercedes S Class, BMW 7-series, Audi A8, Jaguar (not X-type), Lexus LS 430, Infinit Q45, and even Cadillac DeVille (sorry).

fish8 · February 2003

Did you happen to get the Jetta inspected prior to purchasing it? I am afraid to say, but I would expect more serious problems servicing pretty soon. Good luck though!!

kellan · February 2003

yup, i had it inspected. my uncle is a mechanic and he looked it over for me. i also had it fully serviced and everything else. but who knows, by the posts that i read here - i should e expecting some problems in the near future! :-/

target3 · February 2003

has all the bells and whistles that I would ever need. For me, it almost is a luxury car. Definitely not a BMW or MB, but I cannot (and would not) pay that amount of money for a car. Pure waste of money unless you make $150k or more, IMO.

vocus · February 2003

Totally agree with you. I drive nearly 30K miles yearly, and am not about to pay more than $20-25K for a car that I will more than likely have to replace by the time the payment book's done.

vocus · February 2003

I can agree with you on your opinions of American cars. I wouldn't have one if I was given 10 of them to drive. Every person that I know who had an American car has always had trouble with them.

I like the driving experience of a German sedan alot, even a FWD German sedan. I also don't know what the big hype over a BMW is. My co-worker has a 2000 323i, and it's nice but nothing to write home about. Of course, I never have had it on a winding road either...

Anakin · February 2003

My offer still stands, blueguy.

I'll take a new S4, you take a new M3, and I'll race you in the snow, mud, or sand. Your choice.

Volkswagen Jetta 2005 and earlier

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