Saab 9-5 Sedan

smerk · February 2001

I am trying to decide between buying a 9-5 from the 2000 year versus the 2001. I can get a below invoice price for the 00, while the 01 is between invoice and MSRP. I have never owned a Scab before - just coming off a lease of a BOW 328i. Any Scab lovers or haters care to comment to help me in my decision?

bg10 · February 2001

This place is dead since they ran the Saaber off, so I guess somebody has to answer your question. First you didn't mention model so: as to the Aero and SE, I don't think there are any significant differences except for the addition of On Star, so take the 2000 and if you want On Star, you can get that separately. As to the base model, it gained 15 horsepower and I know not how much torque, so if you are looking at the base model, the decision depends on how important the extra horses are to you. Of course it could easily be as simple as a chip change so maybe you could buy the 2000 and get a 2001 engine management chip and save money. Then again it might not be that simple. I'm sure somebody else can/will comment on that.

By the way, I have a 2000 9-5 Aero and am quite happy with it. It replaced an Alfa 164S which my wife did in while I was out of the country. It was my third Alfa in a row but I wouldn't go back to an Alfa now, the Aero's turbo torque and handling is just too much fun.

ffb13 · February 2001

i was not aware that he had been wasted.
can they actually do this on this board.
why.--
the place is no fun any longer.

L8_Apex · February 2001

..."wasted". He elected not to return after another guest took their personal disagreements with him beyond this board and my control.

Thanks,

L8_Apex
Host
Sedans Message Board

homerandoldlad · February 2001

I am looking for a 2000 with low miles. Choices are saab 9-5 se or aero, volvo s60t5 or s80t6, lincoln ls or a seville sls. I want 2 adults to be comfortable in the back seat but I'd also like to be able to beat high school punks in camaro's. Any thoughts?

citizenpain · February 2001

As a relative of a GM employee, I have some sort of "preferred" pricing. I'm looking at a 9-5 V6 with an MSRP of around $38k. Through GM I can get it for around $34k. It doesn't sound that great. Are dealerships doing better than that right now?

Also, anyone know if Saab will ever accept GM credit card rebate earnings?

Thanks in advance!

bretfraz · February 2001

Your numbers are off quite a bit. The base price of a 2001 9-5 SE sedan is $39225, not "around $38k". Invoice on this vehicle is $36326. If you can get it for "around $34k", you'll have saved $2000 or so off invoice... all with no haggling or negotiation. Find another new car, especially a European sport sedan, with an instant $5000 discount just for being related to someone.

I'm not trying to be a jerk here, just hoping GM folks know a good deal when they're handed one on a 24 carat gold platter.

The GM card question is probably best asked to Saab NA.

camsm · February 2001

Looking at leasing a 2001 9-5/SE, 4DR.
MSRP: $39,820
Capitalized cost reduction: $2,000
Residual value: $19,511.80
Lease term: 36 months
Monthly factor: .00121

Is this a good or bad leasing price? 1st time Saab owner. Have also been looking at the Audi A6 and the Lexus ES 300.

Thanks!

camsm · February 2001

Oops! Also forgot to mention the Gross Capitalized Cost. It is $36,445.

dski · February 2001

smerk... There really wasn't that much info in your post to talk much about it but... sounds to me like the '00 is the way to go. I'd look at an 2000 Aero if you really want something special. As far as owning a Saab? Hard to predict how happy you'll be but it would be interesting hearing your thoughts being a BMW owner. If you do buy the Saab, I hope you'll stick around here.

FWIW... Jan. & Feb. are my busiest months of the year so not only have I not been around here much, I haven't been driving the 9-5 much. Yesterday I had my detailer clean it up and we went out last night with friends. It sure was nice to spend time with the Saab again. Our friends had never been in a 9-5; needless to say, they were very impressed.

drew

bretfraz · February 2001

I ran your numbers and came up with a payment of $480.10. That's pretty good.

I seriously considered the A6 and, to a lesser extent, the ES300. One compromise you'll have to make is that when you lease a Lexus or Audi, you will pay full market price for the car and an interest rate that is rarely discounted. I'm talkin' 9% interest. The money factor on the 9-5 deal works out to be 2.9%. Plus you're getting the 9-5 near invoice; no way you'll get that deal on the A6 or ES300.

I guess the big question for anyone considering these cars is what's more important: Cars like Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Lexus have great pedigrees and certainly make a statement. Saab's image and pedigree is, shall we say, unfocused in the U.S. so it won't have the same impact as the other brands.

My personal motivation was to drive the best car possible with the lowest payment possible and little or no money out of my pocket. To me, this is the core essence of leasing. But leasing means different things to different people. That's why the car market is so terrific - there is something for everyone. Best of luck!

bretfraz · February 2001

Stole this off www.gmfamilysavings.com:

Can I use my GM Card points?

Earnings accumulated by holders of The GM Card (the standard blue or gold cards) may be applied toward the purchase or GMAC SmartLease® of a GMO/GMS vehicle under this program, excluding Saab and Saturn. The new GM Card (the copper or platinum cards) earnings may not be used in combination with the GM New Vehicle Purchase Program.

ffb13 · February 2001

L8 apex,
thank you for clarifying.
re---caddy--- went this route recently and after 18 months sold the car at a $25.0 LOSS.
the caddy looks great,but after a few thousand miles it begins to fall apart on you.literally.
the suspension becomes soft and the handling loses the edge.it had little,but still....
and the north star engine------well,1 quart of oil every 700 miles and at times 400 miles was just too much.--the long term prospect did not look good at all.
the oil cooler hose came off at one point and I spilled lots of oil in my driveway.
the accel.pedal just fell off---at 850 miles new.
the brakes did not.---took a recall--twice to fix them. many other problems---- (it reminded me of my 85 jag.xj6. )
i got on a first name basis with each of the service writers in two dealerships,.. and so on.........

so far the Saab ,with 22,000 miles no major problems other than two ecm recalls in 3 months. and a sticking transmission--would not go into gear --out of park---fixed by the dealer.

in July i am going on a 10,ooo miles plus trip,circumnavigating the usa from fla. up to vt. to vancouver via montana ,of course to try out the car's flat out driving composure down to--wyoming and up,then down to l.a.-- new mexico,etc..--new orleans, and finally fla.

by the end of this trip we will know what this car is made off.

jonah95 · February 2001

I just turned 6000 in my July 2000 Aero (manual). Over the last 100 miles the engine has begun to hesitate momentarily when pulling away in 2nd gear, i.e. there is a marked power loss for a split second before it recovers. Initial pull is fine, then it almost dies, but kicks back in again before losing all momentum.

Very scary in busy traffic, especially when pulling away from a junction or traffic island when I seem to lose all the pulling power for a split second before it picks back up again. Doesn't happen all the time, though -- it's happened three times over the last 100 miles, and again this afternoon. Now I'm getting concerned.

Could this be a turbo or fuel pump failure, or that old ECU issue I thought I'd gotten away with? (I understood the recall on the ECU only affected pre January 2000 models.)

Mystery is, this never happened inside the first 6000 miles. Anybody got any suggestions? I know I'm under warranty but my less-than-clever dealer often needs help with these kind of things, so any moral support would be gratefully received.

Any thoughts gratefully received. Thanks a lot.

c5551212 · February 2001

We have a 94 900SE since new, a lot of trouble, battery die in the first year, back door feel sticky, my children often have to pull twice and hard to open the door, muffler rust through in the second year, slow leaking of water from gasoline hatch to the trunk, the spare tire compartment was rusty and moldy, fungi and mold grow on the carpet's under-surface in the spear tire compartment ( I am sure these fungus are flying all over in the passenger compartment too, we had been breathing all these fungi for the last 2-3 years without knowing it.). Regional maintenance manager was irresponsible and arrogant. Asked us "Were we going to sue the company?, sounds like if we were, he will not repair the car. We didn't have much option. Although the carpet was cleaned, we still not sure are the air ducts cleaned? We have been stocked with this car since. We are in the position to buy another car now. We are going to trade this Saab in, hope any of you who are looking for the car beware of such conditions.

sanman2 · February 2001

Looking to lease a new saab 9-5 with premium package, manual transmission, mica paint,and 15k per year in lease.Just wondering if anybody can give me a figure to shoot for in monthly payments.
Thanks!

ffb13 · February 2001

sound like the ecm.
had it been a non-ecm car i would say carburation or timming.
but it is a computerized car so ----ecm.
read up and you will note that they installed two units in mine ---one in november or december 20000 and the second one in january 2001.
i asked why and was told stumbling and engines dying.

jonah95 · February 2001

Thanks for that - I suspected the same. But I just got back from the dealer and they wouldn't entertain the idea. Because my chassis number is outside the recall list for the suspect ECMs they don't see an ECM failure as even a possibility.

They did swap out the 'dump valve' for a new one, however. Not entirely sure what this does but it sits under the bonnet just behind the top of the radiator grill. I believe it releases turbo pressure at lower revs, e.g. between gear changes etc. to avoid the engine being constantly blown. Sounds like this might help if mine was sticking - I guess we'll see.

Thanks for your thoughts.

bg10 · February 2001

Actually it is call a waste gate. Its purpose is to keep the turbo from generating too much pressure. The ECU decides how much turbo pressure is required for a certain situation, throttle position, speed, RPM, etc. and opens or closes the waste gate as required to keep the pressure at that level. The waste gate dumps excess air/pressure back into the intake in from of the turbo so the excess air circulates back through the intake system.

Actually the waste gate could be generating the symptoms you described. When you let off the throttle to shift, the waste gate would likely open to dump off excess pressure and if it stuck open momentarily, the pressure would quickly drop off after you hit the throttle in second gear. It could also be the ECU. Since the dealer quickly changed the waste gate, it makes me wonder: has he seen this before? Did Saab tell him to look for this? Did a fault code for the waste gate show up when he checked out the car? Time will tell but this could have been your problem

jonah95 · February 2001

Thanks for the very clear explanation - that's really helpful.

My dealer wouldn't accept an ECU fault because there were no error codes in the system, and also because my chassis number is outside the range of vehicles recalled for known ECU failures. That in itself isn't a guarantee that mine doesn't have a problem, I'm sure, though I guess we have to start somewhere and the waste gate seems a reasonable place to begin.

In the absence of any error codes or previous experience with my problem on this model, the dealer was unsure how to move forward, so they called Saab Technical -- it was they who suggested the dealer change the waste gate as a starting point.

I'm observing the performance and, as you rightly say, time alone will tell. I'll post my findings given a few days to see how it goes from here.

Thanks again for the info. Best regards.

ffb13 · February 2001

this is a possible issue but i doubt it does what you described.
the waste gate allows the dumping of excess pressure to keep the internal press. within the envelope.and, the press.within operating limits.

if sticking it will cause the car to stumble but only at max.rpm or max.acceleration and you would see the press. gauge go from yellow into the red. and at this point the car would act as if missing.

jonah95 · February 2001

Guess it's back to the ECU then?

sarajevojim · February 2001

I am getting ready to place my 2000 SAAB 95 SE,13,500 miles, Scarabe Green, all the options except CD changer and vented seats. 4year/50,000mile warranty. Car has a new hood protector, uninstalled mud flaps. The car has never been through the car wash, always hand washed, hand waxed (carnuba) and hand buffed and stored in the garage. No scratches, door dings, and all services have been performed by the Hilton Head SAAB dealer. I personally drove the car off the show room floor in Trollhaaten, Sweden. Immaculate! asking $29,500

gbriank · February 2001

Price sounds a little high.... I saw a 9-5 SE with all the goodies a couple of months ago go for $27200....

pdeckert · February 2001

After a very disappointing buying and service experience with an Eastern dealership, I will probably have to turn elsewhere for service. Have you had any experience with dealerships in Eastern Canada? Would you care to comment and, perhaps, make some recommendations?

Thanks for your help! Regards, Peter

jeff174 · February 2001

Recently purchased 9-5 V6 wagon and have horrible sulfur odor from catalytic convertor. Spoke to service manager and he stated Saab was aware of problem but nothing is wrong. I have owned Saabs for 10 years and never had this problem with any other car. Tried different brands of fuel and different octanes with no change. Any one else have similar problems?Any suggestions? Jeff

dski · February 2001

>Any one else have similar problems?Any suggestions? Jeff

I've not had the problem but I do have a suggestion. It sounds to me like it's burning the fuel too rich but I'm no expert. My suggestion is to simply tell them that the condition is unacceptable and must be corrected. When they try to tell you it's normal, I'd simply stick to my guns explaining that your well aware that other Saab owners aren't reporting the condition and it is "Unacceptable" for you to have to live with it.

Best of Luck
Drew

gbriank · February 2001

I had the same smell in my 9-3SE. The sulfur smell subsides after 1000 miles. It has something to do with the break-in period on the exhaust system.

bretfraz · February 2001

My '00 9-5 SE does this as well. I've tried various fuels as Jeff has with no improvement.

My feeling is that it's related to reformulated fuels we get in the winter. Various regions of the country get different formulations so I'm sure this effect varies as well.

I'm waiting for Spring and "normal" fuel to return. My Saab has other issues; squeaky driver's seat, creaking rear door, whistling A/C blower. I'll have it all fixed at the 6000 mile oil change.

scj1000 · February 2001

I am looking at buying a new 9-5 SE. The dealer called today and said they have one 2000
9-5 SE left. I offered $31,000, but they would not come down from $32,000. It has 100 miles.
Is this price fair? Is there somewhere else I should be looking for competetive pricing? Thanks
for any help.

roxreps1 · February 2001

I just "fell" into a 99' 9-5 SE/4 cyl. I know you just dont fall into a Saab, not even on a good day, but I've been looking at either Saabs or Volvos and couldn't make up my mind. Someone wanted out of their lease (she got married and moved to Holland), and at a very negotiated price of below $350/mo.for the next 2.5 years, my mind was quickly made up. This fine vehicle has 20K miles on it, and is in almost flawless condition (a few very small scratches).

I've got a few questions for the 9-5 experts out there;
1. What kind of mileage should I expect to be getting? (1.5 yrs old/ 20K, well maintained).I don't race it, but I do like to give her a "kick" now and then. I've only has it 3 weeks, and I'm looking at @ 17-19 mpg.

2. Will driving the sport mode severely affect mileage as well? (it's a blast!)

3. What octane do you recommend? I've 'been using 89 up to this point.

4. MY wife doesn't drive (grew up in the city, and she has me, her chauffer). We moved out of the city recently, and I'll soon need a second car. Could anyone suggest a previously-owned Saab (model/year) that the wife would feel just as comfortable and safe in?

5. Finally, Got any suggestions on how I can clean my windshield wipers? $20. for a new pair sounds a bit steep (dealer).

I've read these posts before. Saab, Volvo (with all their problems, they still love the car), VW, and I thought all you guys were nuts, and have way too much time on your hands. But I've come to realize you're not crazy you're consumed, and I know why. This is a satisfying car. It feels good, it fits, it's balanced. I like the way I "slip" into it, and I even enjoy driving my son to school, even though we're .5 miles away.

I suddenly find myself volunteering to "go get things", and offering to drive to friends/relatives I never wanted to visit driving my Altima.

Driving the 9-5 is fun, in fact, enlightening. I really like this car, and didn't think it would have such a profound effect on me. I almost wish my wife doesn't learn to drive, because she's going to have to fight me for this car.

I drove an Altima before this (another very good lease assumption), and you know what, I can't go back. Thanks alot.

Converted

dski · February 2001

Octane: I've found that I need to use premium fuel in my area. I was getting slight pinging under moderate load until I switched to the higher grade. That was before Saab replaced the ECM unit so maybe I can go back to the middle grade.

Wiper Blades: Cleaning or not - you will eventually have to replace them. Saab is using an odd size which forces you to buy from them but you can get around that. Just go to an auto parts store and buy a "Refill" blade for the next higher size. I think it's 23inch. Then simply cut them down. Be careful not to cut too short. I used a small hax saw since you have to cut thru a small metal piece. It's very simple to do and you get a better blade for less money.

A used Saab: I'd go with anything WELL maintained that is older than 1993 (no automaitcs) or a 1998 or newer- automatic or standard. Or another option, any used 9000 since '93 that does NOT have and automatic. I strongly recommend avoiding automatic 9000's and older 900's - newer 9-5's and 9-3's? Take your pick, either in any combo should be fine. For a truely special car, find one of the last 5 speed 9000 Aeros. I think they quit making that version around '95 or '96.

Hmm, was that confusing enough?

Best of luck.
Drew

dysfunct9 · February 2001

Though I love my Saab 9-5, named Bjorn, to pieces, it doesn't get the best (or advertised) gas mileage. It's nearing 5,000 miles and I'm averaging 13-15 mpg in the city. Granted, I live in Los Angeles, where traffic is more than "slightly" slower than most cities. Still, even with freeway driving about 1/3 of the miles, I repeated average under 15 mpg at each fill-up. The good news is that Bjorn gets exceptional freeway-only mileage. On a roadtrip to Palm Desert a few weeks ago, I got nearly 35 mpg with exclusive freeway driving.

All the best.

P.S. Anytime you use the "Sport" mode, or any other similar "mode" on other vehicles, in which the engine "revs out" each gear, you will get poorer gas mileage. It's worth it, though, eh?

scj1000 · February 2001

I purchased a Scab 9-5 SE which I am picking up from the dealer on Friday. The car had the 17" BBS wheels with the low profile tires. I wasn't crazy about the BBS wheels so I am having them switch back to the regular 16" SE wheels and tires. The dealer says the BBS wheels won't have any additional value at resale (although they now are a $1,650 option). Is this true? If they do increase resale value, maybe I should take the BBS (they are included with the car I purchased) and purchase winter wheels. Any comments??

bmwjoe · March 2001

The BBS wheels are way nice. OTOH, they are pot hole magnets. I would sell them on eBay and you should get $600+ for them if you advertise on saabnet.com You can put this money toward a set of 16" or 15" snow wheels and tires.

Snow tires make a huge difference.

Drive Safe,

Joe

roxreps1 · March 2001

Agreed. Keep the BBS rims (the dealer makes out big time if you switch them) and sell them. I think you should get closer to a grand dependng on your zip code. I've got a question maybe someone can answer. I've got a 9-5 SE (99') and I'm perplexed. I'm having the hardest time backing straight out of my garage. I keep finding myself on my grass, to the right. I finally looked down at the steering wheel, and while I think I'm backing out perfectly straight, the wheel is positioned askew and to the left.Now the last time I looked, my garage didn't have a curve to it, and I haven't been drinking. On the road, the wheel seems just about centered. Am I going nuts, or does this car naturally lean to the right? Any thoughts?

Rox

banker74 · March 2001

Hi all,
I'll admit - I've been set on the new Volvo S60 T5 for a few months. Nonetheless, something about both the 9-5 Aero and 9-3 SE draw me in. Can somebody convince me why it's better to go w/ the Saab and it's older platform instead of the newer S60 T5 - and I'm not talking about looks because that is completely subjective.

Thanks,
Derek

kiiwii · March 2001

Hi Everyone! I'm thinking about getting a Saab, but I never had a vehicle with turbo. Remember few years ago, my friend told me that turbos don't last for too long. They requite lots of maintance. Also, since they build up so much pressure and stress, engines with turbos have problems quite often. Are these true? Thanks for answering my question & sorry about these dumb questions for "turbo-beginners." =P

bretfraz · March 2001

I'll give you $1000 today (or ASAP) for those 17" wheels and tires. Or I'll make you a deal on my stock 16" SE wheels and tires; they have 5000 miles on them.

Click on my handle and e-mail me. I'm 100% serious.

ffb13 · March 2001

the wheels you can sell for $1000 OR MORE.
i still prefer the std. wheels also.but the bbs do look great .but avoid potholes.

the volvo vs saab----think reliability---even though the newer saab is still a question mark the volvo is a known headache.--and ,the saab is more nimble ,thus more fun to drive.---but the seats on the volvo are superior for long trips.

i have a volvo turbo and even though most parts in the car have failed ,the turbo ,only needed replacement at 175,000 miles.----the car now has 228,000 and the new turbo is still strong.----i would not worry about the newer turbos and their reliability ,nor its effects on the engine---that is,provided that they are a saab or volvo because of their long experience with them.

dski · March 2001

How long ago did your friend comment on Turbo's not last too long? For the last 10 years or so, Turbo's have been very reliable and last for many years and miles. Early turbos did not cool down efficiently at the end of a drive. If you wanted those to last, you would have to let your engine idle for a couple minutes after a drive to allow it to cool.

Now of course, if you don't have a turbo, you'll never have the potential of have having it fail but I wouldn't hesitate owning one because of that. If you don't have airconditioning, you never have the potential of having that fail either. Do you remember the days when airconditioners were not reliable?

Good Luck
Drew

kiiwii · March 2001

Drew, thank you for your response. My friend told me about the turbo prob when I was shopping for a car 7-8 yrs ago. That's why I never considered cars w/turbos ever since then.

I'm currently looking for a car that's reliable, safe, fits my budget, and doesn't have the "generic" style. Saab is one of the few that doesn't give the feeling of "I-look-just-like- everyone-else."

laurasdada · March 2001

I had an '85 Mitsu Mirage Turbo. I changed oil every 3000 miles and after high speed driving gave the turbo at least a 30 second cool down (which you don't have to do anymore?). I sold the car (regretfully, FUN car!!!) after about three years and 45,000+ miles. The mechanic who inspected it for the (psycho father for his college-bound daughter) buyer commented what great shape it was in, especially for a Turbo. Like anything, if you take good care of it, it should take care of you...
Looking forward to the next generation 9-3 to maybe replace my wife's 900.

dpaull · March 2001

I have a 99 with a 4 cylinder and a manual transmission (about 24k miles). I get 25 mpg or so in combo type driving. I only use premium fuel.

Also, I have a question. On my fuel gauge, the top letter is F which I assume means Full. The bottom letter is R. What does that mean, Refill?

dski · March 2001

>I had an '85 Mitsu Mirage Turbo. I changed oil every 3000 miles and after high speed driving gave the turbo at least a 30 second cool down (which you don't have to do anymore?). I sold the car (regretfully, FUN car!!!)<

Yep, people who treated the "old" turbos like you did, were very happy owners for doing the right thing.

Unfortunately, it was hard for the dealer sales guy to tell people to allow their engines to cool down by idling after a spirited drive. Thus, Turbos didn't last long. Who wanted to buy a car that needed to sit idling for 30 seconds to a couple minutes everytime they got home? The good news is that the problems resulted in very reliable Turbo designs for the few companies that still sell them. And certainly there is no need to fear owning todays turbo's.

Drew

smu1976 · March 2001

The 9-5 got another "recommended" in the April annual Auto issue that came out this week.
This is sure a great step for Scab who has not ever tested well with CR prior.
The Audio A6 dropped out from last year due to reliability problems.

A quick tip if your service light on the display is driving you crazy. Push the clear button once briefly, then wait a few seconds and push it again and hold it down for 15 seconds. Well, all gone. Don't forget to change the oil though.

dysfunct9 · March 2001

Hi everyone: I am currently leasing a '00 Saab 9-5 base model (silver 4-cylinder) with the Luxury Package for $364/mo plus tax. It also has the ultra-chic genuine wood steering wheel. It has just reached the 5,000 mile mark. Though I love the car, I need to exchange it for a car with much cheaper payments (though I realize I have an excellent deal) fairly soon in order to meet some financial goals. The current deal on the Saab website for the same car is $439/mo plus around $4000 in drive-off costs. I hear there is a $500 lease transfer fee. Is it reasonable to assume that this car should be an easy sell? Not only is it practically brand-new (in showroom condition), but there would be no down payment (besides the $500 transfer fee) and a shorter than average lease term...29 months left. If it is an easy sell, any suggestions on where I should advertise? I'd appreciate any suggestions/advice. Thanks!

boonsboro · March 2001

To dysfunct9. If you are any where nere Maryland I'd like to talk off list @ minsk@bigfoot.com.

daynnight · March 2001

I too am interested in possibly assuming your lease. I'm located in California, where are you?

Please email me directly at- gmtcoving@aol.com

E-mail me even if you're in another state, I may travel?
Thanks,
Gary

bretfraz · March 2001

What else is Dysfunc gonna get? One of those "$179/month" Saturns? That Ford Ranger deal that's on TV (what, $169/month)?

Saab 9-5 Sedan

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