BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

ccotenj · February 2002

wise nugget of advice from an edmund's poster...

-Chris

jhox85 · February 2002

I just ordered mine straight from Klasse. You can find them at Klassedirect.com.

derprofi · February 2002

Per BMW's M3 manual:

"To ensure that your vehicle provides maximum economy throughout a long service life, we request that you observe the following instructions.

Because of its engineering design, the BMW M3 is an especially high-quality vehicle. It is in your best interest to follow the break-in instructions very closely. Doing this, you will create the basis for a long, optimum service life.

Engine and differential
Until a km reading of 1,200 miles (2,000 km), drive at varying engine and road speeds, but do not exceed the following rpms or road speeds: 5,500 rpm or 105 mph (170 km/h). Obey your local and state maximum speed limits. Do not depress the accelerator pedal to the full-throttle position.

After you have monitored the breakin period for 1,200 miles (2,000 km), you can begin to gradually increase both engine and road speed."

There are separate procedures for tires, brakes and clutch, but they all basically say "this system does not operate at optimal efficiencies until after the first 2-300 miles, so be careful."

Essentially, this is no different from the 325 or 330 break-in procedure, so yes you could have just as much driving fun with an M in Europe as you could with any other new Bimmer. That's where that pesky money thing comes into play again! :-)

mcnal01 · February 2002

I read on another board of folks having the same seat belt problem. Try pulling the belt completely out to see if you have a fold in the belt, straighten out then carefully recoil. Other owners said that's all in took to correct.

rjg96 · February 2002

Someone posted this on bimmerfest.com-- very interesting. Basically, interior space is not really a compelling reason to move up to a 5- you basically just get a little more shoulder room. You actually get slightly more rear leg room in a 3!
3 series5 series.
38.4 : 38.7 - head room - front (in.)
37.5 : 37.8 - head room - rear (in.)
41.4 : 41.7 - leg room - front (in.)
34.4 : 34.2 - leg room - rear (in.)
54.4 : 56.8 - shoulder room - front (in.)
54.2 : 55.9 - shoulder room - rear (in.)
91.0 : 93.0 - passenger volume (cu.ft.)
11.0 : 11.0 - cargo volume (cu.ft.)

tenet1 · February 2002

I find this hard to believe. Rear leg room is the same? Cargo Volume is the same?? Head room is the same?

Shipo or others who have researched the 5er - Can you confirm this?

shipo · February 2002

Those numbers are deceiving for a couple of reasons:

1) They are a little off, check the following corrected chart:

3 series : 5 series
38.4 : 38.7 - head room - front (in.)
37.5 : 37.8 - head room - rear (in.)
41.4 : 41.7 - leg room - front (in.)
34.4 : 34.2 - leg room - rear (in.)
54.4 : 56.8 - shoulder room - front (in.)
54.2 : 55.9 - shoulder room - rear (in.)
90.8 : 94.9 - passenger volume (cu.ft.) - Changed
10.7 : 11.1 - cargo volume (cu.ft.) - Changed

2) While the above chart shows .3" of extra head room on the 5er, it seems like a lot more. In my case, because of the extra room, I can sit noticeable more vertically in the 5er without my head touching the ceiling, thus giving the back seat passengers more like an inch or two of extra leg room (foot room in the case of my children). In this case, said extra room is just enough to prevent my kids from having to angle their feet at an uncomfortable angle when they sit in back.

Best Regards,
Shipo

shipo · February 2002

Hmmm, I like it, "..beat the salt out of it..." ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

shipo · February 2002

Maybe it is just my age showing, however I like my goodies, and the 530i just has more luxury goodies than the 330i. That along with a little more space (not much, but it does seem noticeable), and that is why I popped for the 5er this time around.

Best Regards,
Shipo

rjg96 · February 2002

Shipo- thanks for the clarification. On paper you have to admit they seem very close. What extra luxury goodies are you referring to on the 5 that you can't get on the 3? The only thing I can think of is that you get a power steering wheel on the 5 and dual climate control. I do thiking the build quality of the 5 is higher and the steering is better. I also think the current 5 has the best front-end of any BMW ever made. Too bad Bangle has to go and ruin it.

shipo · February 2002

rjg96,

You are so correct; on paper they do look almost the same. However, when I stuck my kids in the rear, booster seats and all, they clearly had more room when the front seat was set for my preferences.

As for goodies, the most obvious are the dual climate control (I like it cold, my wife likes it warm, classic battle of the sexes), and MUCH upgraded audio system when compared to the HK, said audio system is also integrated into the OBC, using the display for other stuff besides the Audio program. I cannot remember off the top of my head what the others are, those two are the most important to me, I will update y'all when I remember.

Tenet1,

I caught your initial oblique reference, I just thought that salt might be used on an on going basis as a PC mnemonic for your word of preference.

Also, when I was in the USMC (Uncle Sams' Misguided Children), when you referred to someone as an "Old Salt", you could easily have used something else in place of "Salt", respectfully of course. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

brave1heart · February 2002

shipo · February 2002

I suspect that I might be a little on the young side compared to the folks I see driving them around here.

Best Regards,
Shipo

nyccarguy · February 2002

Don't be suprised if certain hosts send you an email regarding your use of language. Its part of the TH membership agreement that we all throughly read and electronically signed as a member. I just know because I've gotten a few.

Regarding the M3 break-In in Europe. Yes If you just plan to keep the car for a year and sell it then by all means go to Europe, and beat the salt out of it. 105mph isn't too shabby i guess. You'd probably get funny looks from the guy in the 320d (diesel) passing you on the autobahn wondering why you're going so slow!

nyccarguy · February 2002

I like substituting salt (no pun intended) for you know what. I'm going to try and do it in my every day vocabulary as I do tend to curse way too much.

tenet1 · February 2002

I agree with using "salt" instead of the intended word. I just wasn't thinking at the time.

So far, I am having a pretty salty day!!

derprofi · February 2002

Having done an ED in the past few months, I can tell you it's tough (as in self-restraint) but certainly not impossible to keep the car reigned in during the break-in period. Considering that said M-class and owner are likely meeting for the first time, it's probably better that they get to know each other at or below 105mph anyway. However, it's not hard at all to hit 1200 miles over a 2-week period, leaving plenty of time and miles to run your M the way it was designed to be run without worrying about whether you're "beating the salt" out of it.

PS, my 330i got passed by a Smart car on several occasions and my ego didn't take too bad of a hit

As for the obscenity thing, I think it's a pity we have to concern ourselves with the occasional use of 4-letter words to spice things up. Who do we think we're protecting anyway? Kids? I don't know about you guys and gals, but by 2nd grade I could give most sailors a run for their money in the cussin' department!

ccotenj · February 2002

"Considering that said M-class and owner are likely meeting for the first time, it's probably better that they get to know each other at or below 105mph anyway."

this is quite possibly the wisest piece of advice that has ever been posted on this thread...

triple digit speeds have a way in resulting in really really bad situations, especially:
1) with a driver that is untrained at that speed.
2) in a car they've never driven before.
3) in a car that has performance that they likely have never felt before.

-Chris

nyccarguy · February 2002

I was also assuming a short 4 day trip in which 2 of the days were used for travel and 2 days with the car.

Your advice is wise as well.

derprofi · February 2002

Chris, I assure you...any similarity between my postings and wise advice is purely coincidental!

nyccarguy, if you ever do ED do yourself a favor and shoot for a stay of 10-14 days. You won't regret it!

brave1heart · February 2002

Our language is evolving. We have to give it a name - maybe Edmundese?

Shipo, you will definitely be one of the younger 5-series owners. And one of the youngest by heart especially!!

brave1heart · February 2002

"This car does everything, has everything in it, and on top of that drives better than it ever did before" Chris Bangle, BMW Design Chief.

All true but I am beginning to wonder if he's actually seen the car... I suspect if he had, it would look much better than that. I hope they don't carry that design down to the 5- and 3-series but if the spy pictures of the redesigned 5 are any indication, I may be hoping in vain.

nyccarguy · February 2002

Especially if I buy my next car (If I decide to go with a 325Ci) because I've got an excel chart worked out here on my computer and with a variety of options the ED car I've priced out (ED Invoice + $1,500 excluding taxes) anywhere from $29,095 to $30,845. If I priced out the same car for US delivery it comes out to $32,295 to $34,220. I would like to go to Europe with my girlfriend in the fall. I do get only a limited amount of vacation time from my job so I may only be able to do a week. Given my short time constraints in Europe, do you all have any suggestions of what the "must sees" are? Thanks!

PS: I know I set myself up for some snide comments telling you all that I've got this worked out on an excel spreadsheet!

jdbtensai · February 2002

is used in hawaii to mean in a bad mood, ticked off, that sort of thing.
in case there is someone here, or more than someone, who didn't know that and did care.

ben__ · February 2002

In January, we had a new M3 in for some major repairs. The owner was complaining that the engine was running really rough and that the rear end felt awful with wierd vibrations. The vehicle was about 3 months old and had something like 2200 miles on it -- not an unreasonable amount of driving.

The owner was requesting a buy-back at this point, and all things being equal, we probably would have done it. But there were some key facts the owner must have forgotten to mention...

We had the technician do a full interrogation of the engine computer (called the DME, if anyone wants to know) and discovered some interesting stuff. He had the DME reprogrammed to remove the fuel cutoff so that he could rev pretty much as high as he wanted to. The logs showed that the highest he had ever revved the engine was something like 8700 rpm, which probably would not have accounted for this damage if he hadn't held it at that engine speed for almost 8 minutes.

The managers decided not to go ahead with the buy-back...

riez · February 2002

I own both a '98 540iM and a '00 323iA (with Premium Pkg). Both have sunroofs. They are very similar in regard to trunk space (both are much more useable and functional than the 11 CF rating, since they are shaped well and use the space-saving multi-link design) and interior room. The 5 Series seems more luxurious in look and feel. Front seats are thicker. And it is heavier. But I don't notice a lot of interior room differences. I'm 6'2" about 185 pounds. Both are equally roomy. Does seem like the 5 Series is a bit wider inside. Both seats equally wide, but the tunnel in middle is wider in 5 than 3. Seems like I'm a bit closer to spouse in her 3 than she is to me in my 5.

postoak · February 2002

Uhoh, Big Brother is watching! LOL

Those interior room figures given earlier for the 3 and 5 are amazing, almost unbelievable. Why/how could the 5-series have less rear-leg room? The 5 is, what, about 12" longer than the 3? They must have used that extra length in the trunk and hood. But, shipo, you said your perception was that the 5 definitely had more leg room in the rear. I think there must be some explanation we haven't thought of.

dl7265 · February 2002

I had a 528i loaner for a service for a a/c compressor clutch for about 3 weeks.i worried on the way home that my standard 2 bay garage would not hold it. Suprise when i pulled in an exited it was like i had more room !! Could this be possible ?? well after quickly refering to the brochures i had i realized there is only the 2 more cubic feet, but what made it seem smaller was the lack of the fender flairs that the 3 has.

After 3 weeks i concluded that even with the additional weight that the 528i had the 2.8 felt way more powerful , thus nixing any plans for a 525i with less power.

DL

ds2k1 · February 2002

Mental note - don't remove the fuel cut-off and redline for more than 7 minutes at a time. Got it.

As Bugs Bunny would say, "What a maroon."

postoak · February 2002

Well, not quite, but I've bought my airline tickets and booked 3 nights at the hotel Uhland (derprofi).

Does anyone have hotel recommendations for Freiburg, Heidelberg, Bielefeld, and/or Amsterdam? Something in the $70-$100 range -- with atmosphere but private WC/SHOWER/BATH?

jager561 · February 2002

I own a 00 323 and it has been running rough, even set a misfire code on cylinder #4 3 times. The dealer can't seem to find a problem and is suggesting bad gas...

anyone had any problems similar to this?

riez · February 2002

jager561... Won't hurt to run some tankfuls of the best stuff you can find. Stick with one type at one location. I swear by Amoco Ultimate (the clear premium fuel) in my 540iM and 323iA. Highest octane available in my area. And I live in a small town and know the owner of the local Amoco station (and most of its employees). So I trust their family. If they used bad gas, their reputation and business would be ruined.

seivwrig · February 2002

Derprofi:

Were you going 65 mph? I don't remember a Smart car been able to go over 80 mph. Last time, I was in Germany (about two years ago), it seemed as though my brother was now let anything pass us but BMWs and MB. It seems as though you don't realise how fast 90 mph is until to you get to The Netherlands. Not a cool place to go speeding and the roads are too congested.

I still get flashbacks of driving downhill thru Liege at 90 mph only to find a traffic light at the bottom of the mountain.

Nobee:

Every gone thru Liege??? Who designed the road? My wife said it reminded her of the state of Washington or Colorado. The scenery is nice but it is hell on brakes.

jager561 · February 2002

thanks for the suggestion riez... I agree with you completely...

I have been buying Shell premium, since I bought the car, usually from one of two stations, the station I use most is the same one the dealer uses. On the dealers suggestion I tried dry gas no help... and running it down to fumes to refill a whole new fresh tank... same problem though.

The problem has been going on for several months. I love the car but this is driving me nuts.

shipo · February 2002

There is a flaw on how rear legroom statistics are posted for cars. Said statistics are measured with the front seat ALL OF THE WAY BACK. If you look at the 3er, it seems to have 0.2" more back seat leg room, however, the 5er has 0.3" more front legroom, if you set the front seat the same on both cars, the 5er will actually have 0.1" more rear legroom. In itself, not much, however, I am only 5'8", so in the 5er, with its greater headroom, I can have the front seatback more vertical without hitting my (thinning) hair on the headliner, which also yields more legroom (foot room for my kids).

Another thing that I have noticed, on the older E39 5ers, the back of the front seat was a continuous arc from left to right, on the 2001 and later 5ers, I have noticed a relief sculpted into either side of the back of the front seats, offering more room for the legs/knees/feet of the rear seat passengers. Given that the center spine of the backs of the front seats is still the same distance from the front of the back seats, the measurement has not changed, but there seems to be a little more room on the later cars.

All that said, there is certainly not as much difference in interior space as between the C320 (1.1 LESS total legroom than a 330i) and E320 (1.5 MORE total leg room than a 530i) Mercedes-Benz cars, where the E320 has 2.7 more total legroom than the C320. Would I like an inch or two more legroom in the 530i, YES, do I NEED more legroom in the 530i, well, no, not really. Maybe the new E60 5-Series will find an inch or two for the back seat, but, if it ultimately hits the streets Bangleized, no thanks, Ill keep my 2002.

Best Regards,
Shipo

rjg96 · February 2002

I understand what you're saying about seat height and the additional legroom that it frees up. I'm also a little over 5 8", but I've found that raising the seat (in any car), is only effective up to a certain point because it begins to impede on comfort ( you can't see the instruments clearly, your feeet aren't postioned to rest comfortable on the pedals and dead pedal, armrests are too far away etc). On my 3, if I raised the seat to the point where my head was touching the ceiling, I wouldn't be comfortable driving. Maybe I'm doing something wrong-- but do you find this w/ the seats in the top position-- or is it a compromise you make to accomodate your kids?

shipo · February 2002

Maybe I overstated the situation to make a point, being the driver, I believe that it is my responsibility to be as comfortable and as alert as possible. That said, a similarly comfortable position for me in the two cars, yields at least an inch more foot room for my kids feet in the 530i when compared to my 328i.

Best Regards,
Shipo

butmywife · February 2002

Thanks for the info. You REALLY know your NaCl about a lot of subjects. Now I understand why the price of our tickets was relatively close. North Pole here we come!

Our SAS flight gets in @ 4:15pm so we'll overnight in Munich. Any recommendations for a reasonable hotel ?

We do like to bike and, time permitting, we'll take you up on your recommendation. I haven't done much research yet so I don't have a good feel for distances in Europe. I'm hoping 10 days will be enough to get down to Italy and back without being rushed. Ciao and have a great time in Paris & Stuttgart.

POSTOAK Thanks for your help with ED posts. Your info. saved me a lot of money and put me in the driver's seat, as it were. When are you going? We're to arrive on April 18th(late) for a 19th delivery. Where's the Hotel Uhland?

grayson72 · February 2002

I looked up the lease incentives on Edmunds. They seemed very reasonable for a 3 series, but when I called to two different dealerships they told me those numbers couldn't be right. Any suggestions on how to clarify what lease incentives BMW is actually offering?

nobee · February 2002

Everyone, I've been here over a couple of years now and I have found a couple of great places to stay while in Europe. The hotels affiliated with Accor Hotels has some of the best rooms and services for the buck.
Another brand I highly recommend is SRS SRS is another high quality brand of hotels that can be had for a great price via the internet.
-nobee

nobee · February 2002

Well, I don't know the average age of 5-series owners but I'm 26 and I own 1 x 1993 530i and 1 x 2002 325i. Ahhh youth is a beautiful thing!

-nobee

jobie · February 2002

With regards to the 3 vs. 5 discussion yesterday, one major reason I am going from a 3 to 5 is the 5's seats. The 5's seats just seem way more comfortable, with more adjustment. 3 hours in my 3 was my limit. With the 3 I feel like I'm sitting on the floor. I think the difference is the 5's seat cushion tilt adjustment that the 3 doesn't have.
Jim

postoak · February 2002

Everything I know about Munich I learned from derprofi :-) (well, almost everything -- some others here have helped out -- you know who you are!).

derprofi - "Hotel Uhland is about 10km from the delivery center at Lilienthal Allee 26. The gentleman who delivered our car actually drew us a great little map that got us there in probably 10-15 minutes."

My wife and I like to stay in small hotels with some character, but with the modern conveniences. Hoel Uhland seems to fit that description:

http://www.hotel-uhland.de/uhlandpi.html

A double room with private WC/BATH/SHOWER was, either $87 or 87 Euros per night. This includes breakfast. They also have a private parking area. This was their highest priced double -- they have less-expensive ones. You can make your reservation via email from their website, but probably want to phone in your credit card information to confirm it.

We will arrive in Munich on Sunday, 6/23. Factory tour on Monday (Mondays and Fridays only). We'll pick the car up on Wednesday, 6/26.

Now all I need to do is buy the car!

derprofi · February 2002

seivwrig, I was probably going 90 or so because we were coming into the Dortmund area and I was navigating without a good map. But still...wowzers. I later found out after mentioning this to our relative in Dortmund that many people get their Smart and A-class cars "chipped" to increase the top speed. Personally, I'd almost feel safer on a motorcycle at 100mph than in a Smart!

postoak, hope you have a blast in Muenchen! If you're getting the most expensive double in Hotel Uhland, then you'll probably find that it sleeps 4. Ours had a little separate room off to the side with a sleeper sofa and it's own TV and windows. The Frau of the house is a whirlwind of efficiency and knowledge if not gushing American-style friendliness, Birute is a sweetie and the 50-ish gentleman who worked nights when we were there was also super friendly. Be sure not to miss breakfast. PS, bring back plenty of pictures. Drop me an email if you have any last-minute questions.

nyccarguy, if there's a better way than Excel to work out ED vs. US pricing, I've yet to find it! As long as you've got no embedded charts in yours, I won't give you any salt about it.

Re: finding hotel deals in Germany, I found some decent rates on this site in addition to the other hotels I discovered through friends, Frommers, and by accident.

postoak · February 2002

Thanks! (And I don't mean to understate the help in planning this trip provided by platypus, hgeyer, bing330i, orkwis, et. al.) I've already emailed with Frau Birute (does "sweetie" also imply "cutie"?) and spoken on the phone with the night clerk, whose name I couldn't quite understand -- as you say, both very helpful. I'll try to get some pictures up although I don't have a digital camera or anyplace (yet) to place them.

Reasonable accomodation in Germany isn't a problem -- everything seems inexpensive compared to here. It's finding something that meets my other criteria, and has a good location, that can be hard.

I forgot we had to shorten our stay in Munich by one day, and will be picking up the car on 6/25.

Our first stop after that will be Valhalla, near Regensburg -- anybody been there?

shipo · February 2002

You will find that distances Europe are in no way like those of the western USA. As a for instance, we will be driving from Munich to Paris, a total of only 500 miles! For you, the distance from Munich through Austria, into northern Italy and down to Venice is only 330 miles, and Rome is only another 320 from there, all in all, easily done in ten days.

Best Regards,
Shipo

nyccarguy · February 2002

It is truly amazing how big our country really is.

Munich to Paris: 500 miles. Hmmm...Let's see 500 miles from NYC is OHIO or maybe North Carolina! Europe seems like a very interesting place.

Let's say I do ED in the fall and I've only got a week in Europe...What countries are must sees the first time around? My girlfriend's first choice is obviously Paris. I'd like to do Germany.

shipo · February 2002

Sorry my friend, I cannot help you with that one, I suspect that if YOU are getting YOUR new toy, you had better buck up and take HER wherever SHE wants to go. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

nyccarguy · February 2002

So I guess Paris it is! LOL!

Ben... 8700 RPM for 8 minutes? What on earth was he doing (in your opinion)? He had to chip the car...like the M3 isn't fast enough already! So maybe his car went 0-60mph in 4.79 seconds instead of 4.8 big deal! And he wants you to buy the car back? Is this guy a stand up comedian?

seivwrig · February 2002

Paris is nice, just don't drive there. Personally, I liked Luxembourg. I found it to be romantic but expensive. Amsterdam is my favorite. If I had to go back to Europe to live, it would have to be a houseboat in Amsterdam with no kids and big dog.

BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

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