BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

wrjohnsonpghpa · April 2002

It's hard to believe myself, but I took delivery of my new 325i last night! After more than three weeks in Jersey, the truck pulled into my dealership yesterday afternoon at about 4:00 p.m. My salesman immediately checked the list of VINs and when he saw that mine was on board, gave me a call. My hat is off to the people of New Motors in Erie, PA. My salesman new that I was leaving on a trip Wednesday (tomorrow) morning and wanted the car for the this trip, so they bent over backwards to get it ready for me. I picked it up at about 8:00 p.m. last night.

It was a great ride the 118 miles home, although I have toa dmit that I was paranoid about maintaining the same speed for too long of a time on Interstate 79. The best part was when I got off of the Interstate and followed Route 19 home from Grove City (about 55 miles).

Now a couple of questions for you veterans. Is it right for the Steptronic gear selector light (on the console) to stay on all the time? When I pulled into my garage last night and shut it down, the little square beside the "P" stayed lit. I thought maybe it would go off in 15 minutes like the interior lights are supposed to, but when I got in it this morning the light was still on! What gives? I would think this would be a constant (albeit, small) drain on the battery.

Secondly, on the way to work this morning, the dreaded "Service Engine Soon" light came on! I know this could be caused by the gas cap not being tightened properly, but although last night my salesman did remove the cap to show me how it should be tightened, the light wasn't on the whole 118 miles home! I have since taken it off and put it back on again to make sure that it is on right, but with no luck, as yet, in extinguishing this light. I understand that it can take several "driving cycles" for the light to go out, if in fact it was caused by the cap, but because it wasn't on the whole way back home last night makes me think it must be something else anyway. Any thoughts from any of you experts? Should I take another car on my trip (350 miles one way) tomorrow?

brave1heart · April 2002

I can't believe that with all the criticism from owners and the press, they still carried that idiotic trunk design down to the 5-series. Chris Bangle's explanation: it saves on fuel economy and it increases trunk size. Guess what: the vast majority of 7- and 5-series owners could care less about those extra 1-2 mpg they'd be getting... And who cares about another foot of trunk space in the 7 - it already has 18 cubic ft. That would allow any 7-series owner to comfortably fit in one wheelchair for himself, one for his wife, as well as 2 large suitcases to take them to the senior housing building. That's if they ever figure out the Idrive of course. You pay 40-50 grand for a mid-size sporty luxury sedan (the 5), it has to look good. Disappointing... If they carry that design down to the 3-series, I'll be planning on keeping my car for a long while. On the plus side, I am glad to see that they went back to the traditional L-shaped rear lights on the new 5-series. The 7-series lost those too.

brave1heart · April 2002

I saw a 330 at the autox that had some damage to the rubber underneath the bumper (what's it called - skirt?!?) OK, so it'll cost him $20 to replace it. How many marks on your paint is a day of fun worth to you - none?

dave330i · April 2002

60 mph is usually the top end during autox. Most of the time is spent between 10-40 mph.

Does anyone know which 5 series have dual exhaust pipes? I was passed by one during a semi-stressful 200 mile drive. Those angel eyes are pretty damn cool.

tenet1 · April 2002

I know I am very far from owning a 7 series so the new design does not bother me either way. But to look at the FUGLY 5er is really disappointing. Shipo is lucky to get the current model 5er.

I somehow sense that BMW will be carrying its new styling down to the 3 series in 2005 or so. Why such a dramatic shift in design for all the cars, i wonder??

dave330i · April 2002

"Why such a dramatic shift in design for all the cars, i wonder??"

Chris Bangle is the name you'd be cursing. He's the new lead designer for BMW. He wants to take us to places we don't want to go (can't remember the exact quote, but it's close enough).

tenet1 · April 2002

Yes, Bangle is the name I hear everyone cursing all the time. If they screw up the 3 series, it could spell disaster for the cult like following they currently enjoy. Somehow I think they will be very careful with it (I hope).

seivwrig · April 2002

Maybe the 5er that passed you was the 540i or M5. They are the only ones that I could imagine would have the dual exhausts.

I think Mr. Bangle is doing a good job of mangling the BMW look. It seems that the only things he keep intact are the twin kidney grill, dual headlights and the kink in the c-column. He probably would change those if he could. But BMW will not have a problem in sales because of people that will buy a BMW regardless of what it looks like. These are probably the same people that buy BMW because can not because of how well the car handles. The same logic is used to buy Japanese entry model luxury car. I get more bang for my buck plus more HP despite their car will not be able to carve up European roads the same way. What a compromise!!!

Back to the 5er, some purist might say that us Yankees messed up BMW by complaining to the company more than BMW owners in the rest of the world. We all know the complaint,"For my $40K, I expect to have....like my ." Some complainers will turn the BMW into a Japanese sedan when all is said and done.

brave1heart · April 2002

I am pretty sure that the only 5 with dual exhaust is the M5.

dave330i · April 2002

Thanks for the input. I was thinking M5 or possibly 540i as well. That was the high point of my late night drive from Santa Rosa. We passed a lot of car together for about 5 miles before going our separate ways.

postoak · April 2002

Did anyone ever answer your question about doc fees? I've gotten the impression that most states legislate a limit on this fee and the dealers then make that limit what they charge. For example, it is $50 in Texas and the dealer forms will actually have it printed on the form. That's something you might want to check -- get a look at the form they use to write up a deal and see if "doc fee" is a preprinted entry. If it is, and the salesman is quoting you more than that figure, something is up. $189 MIGHT be the doc fee plus the title registration fee ($13 in Texas) plus the license fee (about $70 in Texas) plus other various and sundry fees ($22 for 2 year state inspection) ($10.xx Road and Bridge fee). Total of all these for my deal in Texas came to $156 something.

seivwrig · April 2002

It must feel nice to have your car. Mine is still in NJ with a status of released to Trucking. My vehicle has to go from NJ to SC. Then sit. Get processed. Wait for another truck before it heads to Houston. My car has done alot of waiting. The outside was dirty has hell when I left London. I probably have permanent speed lines on the hood and rear of the car by now. I guess I will not have the car until next week. Maybe two weeks because my wife will want to drive. She did not drive in England because of that opposite side of the road stuff. I have lost any patiences that I started out with.

brave1heart · April 2002

What do you men "together"?!? You couldn't lose him?!? (j/k)

vkwheels · April 2002

Can you do auto-x with an automatic/steptronic?

congrats to wrjohnson, will stay posted for update on the service engine light story.

dave330i · April 2002

"Can you do auto-x with an automatic/steptronic?"

Yes.

brave1heart: why would I want to lose a M5?

ddblue · April 2002

wrjohnsonpghpa--way to go! You are now a bonafide 3 nut like the rest of us here. The experience will only get sweeter (once you take care of that engine light--not an uncommon experience, btw).

Regarding the 7 and 5 design, hasn't Adrian Van Hooydonk been responsible, not Bangle? Bangle may be heading up design but I don't think he actually designed the 7. I read this in BMW Magazine. Am I wrong?

seivwrig · April 2002

I think the way that Van Hooydonk says the process goes, is these design groups compete for these projects. The winning group gets the project and do the rest of the design. Designworks USA has won a good number of these projects. The Germans are not as conservative as we like to believe. BMW AG has to give the last word on this. Even the new European Delivery center that BMW is working on will be space age type stuff. What is considered classic anyway? Look at the design of the full size M-B sedans over the course of time.

ddblue · April 2002

I'm looking to get a new set of tires for my 325Ci. It currently has the 225s all around from the SP. The fronts still look great (12K miles), so I'm thinking about just replacing the rears (I'm cheap). Is this a bad idea? Will this affect ride/performance/handling much? Is it bad for the car?

I'm debating between Yokohama, Sumitomo, and Kumho 245s. Any recommendations?

erickpl · April 2002

The AWD on my 325xi doesn't feel any different than the RWD that I originally tested. If anything, it feels more stable, but that may just be my mental image knowing I have AWD. It has usually 68% going to the back wheels, so you still have the RWD feel most of the time anyway.

As for the 5 vs 7, my wife and I looked at the 7 and liked everything, except the tail. She kinda liked it, I hated it. With the pics of the 5 posted on that google site (anybody got the site for the translation?) it looks like the trunk lines are a little bit softer and less pronounced than on the 7. While I don't care for it on the 7, the 5 looks kind of nice. Maybe it is one of those designs that grows on you.

dave330i · April 2002

I'm planning on getting Kumhos myself. They get out of round easily, but everyone I've talked to says they're the best bang for the buck.

luftig1 · April 2002

having unusual tail lights, looks good to me also ? Sometimes being distictive can be an aquired taste, but who wants there cars to all look alike. Notice how the new Avalon has 3 series lookalike tail lights.

kominsky · April 2002

ddblue raises an interesting question. I've been contemplating replacing only the rears in the very near future and putting off the fronts until, possibly as late as, next spring. My reason for this is that my wifes Odyssey needs tires (~$500), I just replace the tires on my motorcycle (~$300), and I'll be buying winter tires/wheels in fall (~$1,200). If I replace all 4 on the BMW now, I'll be putting nearly $2.75K into tires this year. I definitely don't want Conti's again so to replace only the rears would mean mixing brands/models. If I don't track the car, how bad of a thing would this be? Div2, are you out there? FWIW, I've never mixed tires and would rather just plunk down the cash and replace all 4, but my wife (again, not a car person!!) is likely to cut me into small pieces and feed me to the dog. ;-)

dl7265 · April 2002

If you want allseason high performance, i might suggest the Yoko AVS DB , i replaced the worn brigstones on my 323i Sport and have been very pleased.

DL

njdriver1 · April 2002

Hi board, has anyone encountered the "check transmission" idiot light? Mine went off on my steptronic (no comments, please) last night, and the service dept hasn't been able to diagnose it despite working on it all day. Any ideas? they're threatening to keep it for days...

tpell1 · April 2002

Hi, anyone have any data/advice if the 330i becomes a better deal if you will be leasing as opposed to buying.

Love the 330i or ix but the price tag is a little steep and love the loaded G35 for about 8k? less than a similarly equipped 330. Someone mentioned that leasing might make that price gap smaller and I was wondering if anyone had any info or hard #'s about that. It'd be a 36 mo, 12k per year in Jersey with $5,000 down

Thanks for the help

dave330i · April 2002

Try the G35 vs. 330i board. I believe someone's done the math already, and it comes out very close.

1pierce · April 2002

I like to drive fast on curvy mountain roads. I even like to feel the car near its limits sometimes. But,...alas...a day of fun is not worth ANY marks on my paint. I agonize over everyone of them until I'm in the final year of my lease.

I know, I'm crazy, and way too much of a perfectionist, but maybe I'll mellow when my kid drags his bike handle bars down the side of my car one day!

leenelsonmd · April 2002

I actually like the look of the new 7 series all the way around. I am probably coloring my opinion because I have become a BMW nut because of the way they handle.

I love these cars. For the money, you cannot find a car that handles and drives the way a 3-series does.

They can have the G35. I'd pay the $8k more and get the better car. It is a lot cheaper than a psychiatrist and for all of you that drive a Bimmer, you know what I mean--its like therapy everytime you take a corner.

leenelsonmd · April 2002

I also like the new 5 series.

Not as crazy about its tail. The dashboard also seemed a little obstructive.

kdshapiro · April 2002

With under 4,000 to the dealer, $518/mo on 330i, step, moonroof, premium, stereo upgrade, cold weather. No HID, but I think I'm leaving out some options, but I can't remember what they are.

ddblue · April 2002

Kominsky/Dave330i--heard that Kumhos are good tires. Many of the guys at auto-xing use 'em. I looked at tirerack.com, and it looks like the best rated WR rated tire for the money are the Sumitomo HTR+s. The treadwear is insanely high, and the dry/wet traction rates 8 out of 10. Plus, they're fairly inexpensive for performance tires. The 245/40-17s were around 104 a piece. Not bad.

I'm still wondering, though, if anyone out there can advise on whether or not replacing the rears only is a bad practice. I, like Kominsky, don't want to break the bank on tires. Gurumike?? Bueller?? Anyone??

leenelsonmd · April 2002

Replace only the tires that need it. The car and the tires will not know the difference. I know the aesthetic appeal of having the same tires on all four exists, but when you have the SP, the rear tires will wear out more quickly than the front. The tires may have some different performance characteristics if they are different age and or brand, but the tires for the SP are already different because they are different sizes on front and back. Not only this, the manufacturer of the tire did not have a preconceived position on the car for a particular tire and therefore the design of the vehicle must allow for differences in tires within a reasonable margin. Obviously if you put $49 budget tires on the front and ultra high performance tires on the back, you may notice a difference, but if you have relatively high quality tires on all four, there will not be a problem having tires of different ages. I do think it is preferable though for both front and both rear tires to match.

TBL: Replace tires in pairs as they need to be replaced.

rjg96 · April 2002

I have to respectfully disagree w/ the other posters' opinions regarding tire replacement.
You should really try to replace all 4 tires at the same time. In most situations under most conditoins, I agree that you could get away w/ mixing different tire brands/ tire ages front to back, but when you really need your tires you might regret that decision:
Different tires will have slightly different adhesion qualities which will affect:
-braking performance
-can contribute to whether the car will oversteer or understeer
-handling in wet conditions-- different types of tires could hydroplane at different points causing a situation where the car suddently skids.
-Could reduce the effectiveness of the DSC

when it comes down to it, why reduce the safety of your car by doing this?

dl7265 · April 2002

Tranny light, my non -step went off when it was returned to me from service... no Excellent on that survey, anyways the mass air flow sensor was not hooked up , causing the tranny to go into safe mode..

good luck
DL

gurumike · April 2002

Had my car inspected. 12,300 miles on the clock. Rears (245/40 Conti Sports) at 4/16 in the center groves which means time to replace. I reckon with sensible driving (for at least some of the time) 15,000 miles is about right for the backs, 20-25,000 for the fronts. Hope this is useful!

pap5 · April 2002

The transmission fault light went on in my 530iA at about 9,000 miles. I had been suspicious that the transmission was not working properly, and confirmed it one day when I tried to accelerate quickly into traffic from a stop. The engine revved quickly to 5,500 rpm with little forward motion from the car. When I tried this a second time to verify the problem, the light came on and the trans went into safe mode (sounds like a Windows term - brings to mind the chilling thought that Steptronic logic was programmed by Microsoft!).

Brought the car to the dealer, and they replaced a valve body, which seems to have cured the problem. I recommend you do the same, and get someone from the shop to drive and duplicate the conditions that made the light come on. That's what I did, which facilitated diagnosis.

530bmw · April 2002

In Virginia, doc fees can be as high as $400-500 and as of now there is no state law that set the limit. To me it reads "rip off" fees, and lot of people refuse to pay it. I will pay up to $25 provided that I get a good deal. All dealers know that it is a pure profit for them on top of the profit they have alredy made on cars .Majority of them will drop it if you play a hard ball. Ask them to drop it and stick to your gun and be prepare to walk away if they refuse.

vishnu11 · April 2002

I saw some discussion about advertising fees and how they are "legitimate charges" that should be tacked on to the Edmund's invoice to get the "true invoice price".

I question whether these advertising fees should be passed on to the consumer. After all, there is a cost to do business, and above all the profit that the dealer makes, why should the consumer subsidize the business itself?

What are people's thoughts on that?

riez · April 2002

vishnu11... Is not really a question of "if" legitimate business expenses should be passed on to buyers, but "how". Eventually all expenses and taxes get passed on to the ultimate buyer.

But having the dealer tack certain expenses on after a price is agreed to is where the problem sets in. And this problem is compounded further because the dealer is NOT up-front on the fee to begin with. You don't see it on a window sticker MSRP. You have trouble finding it clearly shown in open source pricing information. And they can vary from place to place and time to time.

Ever notice how the "Destination Charge" has little or no relationship to how much it actually costs to transport the vehicle? You don't pay less by living next door to the factory. Manufacturers and dealers treat this as a fixed, non-negotiable cost. Ended up being a way to increase profits. They are trying to do same with advertising fees. If they succeed, won't surprise me to see salesperson's salaries & commissions added on. That is just as much a cost of selling a car as are advertising fees and transportation charges.

Why is it that car manufacturers and dealers think they can price their goods differently than a department store? They can advertise a price or you can negotiate a price that you think is the final price, but when it comes time to close the deal, all of a sudden additional fees pop up. The dealer should only advertise or negotiate a price that covers all of their costs. They know what the car cost and they know their expenses, fees, & charges. Does Wal-Mart charge you an advertising fee when you go to the cashier to buy a TV or stereo system? No, because the price they post takes into account all their costs and their desired profit. (And at least when you pay sales tax, you know the fixed percentage ahead of time and it is equally applied to all items so taxed.)

sybele · April 2002

I am considering getting the retrofit steering wheel kit for my 2001 3-series. Is it worth it?

smithermanmd · April 2002

The stresses on each tire are dynamic and change with time and are at any instant ALWAYS different among the 4 individual tires. The purpose of DSC is to help account for these differences should any one tire fail and begin to slip.

The DSC is precisely one of the reasons that you can have a different set of tires on the front and back.

I agree with leenelsonmd, that replacing in pairs is preferable, but it seems financially irresponsible to replace all 4 tires when only a couple of tires are worn out.

If you have the money you can replace all 4 tires every 6 months just for fun.

smithermanmd · April 2002

I was just trying to keep the talk lively.

Enjoy whatever tires you own.

bbell4 · April 2002

OK, here's a dumb question (I'm a female whaddaya want?!) With all thet talk about tires and how quickly they wear out - when you do replace them, can you just get some "non performance" tires that will last longer - or do you have to get a certain type of tire if you get the SP - mine will be a 325i. Or is that the whole point of the SP?! Forgive my ignorance

luftig1 · April 2002

that said, they have different milage estimates and you can shop for the longest. Longest millage usually equates to harder rubber/ less grip an less agressive treads - lower rolling resistance / less grip once again. That said
there will be enough traction for every day driving with non-performance treads if you can find them.

dave330i · April 2002

It's usually, longer tread wear = less grip. If you want long tread life, all season tires are a good place to start.

kominsky · April 2002

I believe there have been 6-10 posters here who have gotten the steering retro done (myself included). Of those, I can only remember one person with any negative feedback. If I remember correctly, they preferred the lighter feel. On my car, 01/12/02 build date, I started with the worst of the steering... light and poor feel. Cars built between 01/16/01 and 03/01 had a change which improved feel, but was still very light. I believe cars built after 03/01 have steering which is equivalent to the retro. Personally, I don't think any of them are as good as the 2000's I test drove or have gotten as loaners, but it is a vast improvement over what I had.

abcnyc · April 2002

Are these fees common for many dealers ? At VOB BMW in Maryland, the only fee I paid was $140 for 2 year tags and title. The 2 year tags for MD cost $76 and the title fees are $23, so $140 seemed reasonable for the dealer to get me tags and title. It saved me the hassle of going to the MVA and waiting in line for processing. I realize that all dealers are different and there are different practices between the various states, but adding advertising fees seem unreasonable.

njdriver1 · April 2002

Thanks for the posts. The tech still hasn't diagnosed it (30 hours later) and I'm starting to fume.

The light went off after driving through deep water and rain. When it went off, the car did, in fact, go into safe mode (that is a scary term). I don't understand if the safe mode is set when the light goes off, or if the computer senses something wrong and sends it into 3rd gear. Therefore, wouldn't they be able to reset the computer, and get me out of safe mode, so I can drive again? If it was the water, it should have dried out by now. If it wasn't the water, they should be able to diagnose it by now.

WOW, do I miss that car.

gurumike · April 2002

Very simply, this is a real charge on the invoice. If you want to make your deal on an "over invoice" basis, you are paying $X over the dealers invoice. The dealers invoice comes from BMW NA. If there's a $300 MACO (ad) fee, that's no different than the destination charge. It is not listed on the MSRP because the customer is not charged for it. If you're ordering a car and have agreed on the "over invoice" amount, it might be a good idea to get a final price, preferably including tax and license. This way you can uncover any 'surprises' such as additional dealer prep fees or excessive document fees (over $50 is probably excessive).
Hope this helps.

roc50mg · April 2002

I think the new 7's and 5's look great!

BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

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