BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

claywaterfill · May 2002

Would a 325i not been in the equation if you had to save a few thousand bucks? Other than the horsepower, what real difference is there between the two if the 325i is equipped with the Sport Package? Would a manual transmission 325 be close to a 330 in real world daily driving (not talking test track driving)?

john01 · May 2002

Yeah, it is nice, especially on the autobahn. Sure beats driving my Integra at 6000 RMP for a couple hours on trips. I think I may need a pair of ear plugs if I am going to do that again.

dave330i · May 2002

"Hey, thanks to Nissan, BMW will probably increase the HP of the engine in the future without increasing the price. add more standard futures, so I can lease a better BWM next time."

Typical American response.

derprofi · May 2002

I was all set to get a pretty loaded up 325i via US Delivery, but then when I found I could get an ED 330i for about the same price, I opted for it instead. I'm still happy that I chose the 330i, but I'm sure I could have lived with the 325i quite happily.

dafreak · May 2002

You reallt think the G35 is ugly...???...It is unique thats for sure but I am not sure ugly is the right word...Oh, by the way did you hear the G35 was #1 in a recent R&T comparo of 15 luxury sport sedans....That's right, #1....The 330i/sport came in second...Congrats to you BMW owners...

nyccarguy · May 2002

What month was the R&T comparo?

dave330i · May 2002

Congratulations, I never needed a mag to validate my purchase, but apparently you do.

jmess · May 2002

You might want to insure your tire pressures are set to factory specs. I have yet to get a new car that had the correct tire pressure when I picked it up. I think some cars are shipped from the factory with max recommended tire pressure which helps insure the tire bead is seated on the wheel and the tire won't be underinflated due to climate changes or slow leaks during shipment to the dealers. 10 psi over factory can make for a rougher ride and/or better handling depending on your point of view.

riez · May 2002

mg330ci... All automotive issues and problems are relative. Fortunately my wife is having a few more issues with her 3 Series than I am with my 5 Series (though I still have to get the broken interior door handled replaced). I never expected a BMW to be up to Infiniti or Lexus standards. Not exactly sure why, but just probability based on past historical evidence. Infiniti and Lexus, on average, are the gold standard of reliability. BMW and MB vary by model and within model. I wish both would spend more time working on reliability issues rather than load their cars up with the latest and (supposedly) greatest electronic gadgets and gizmos (can you tell I hate iDrive?). And since happiness equals reality minus expectations, and I have lowered expectations, I am still happy. Both are great cars to drive and enjoy driving. Motoring in my 540i6 is pure joy, even with a broken interior door handle!

tenet1 · May 2002

Doesn't every new car some how make it "Car of the Year" or something.

Amazing how every G35 owner with Bimmer envy comes straight to this board to become a troll.

Congratulations G35 owners!! Apparently this new comparison didn't make you feel good enough about your recent purchase.

pat · May 2002

and before things get too, uh, prickly in here, let me point out that we do have a place on the Comparisons board for the G35 vs. 3-Series conversation....

Pat
Sedans Host

brave1heart · May 2002

Didn't the IS300 rank first (ahead of the 3-series) in last year's R&T comparo? I am wondering what happened to it this year - it placed third, i.e. behind the 3-series. Neither model has changed, so why the difference? If anything, the IS300 got a manual last fall, which should boost its ranking, not send it behind the 3-series the following year.

nyccarguy · May 2002

I believe the test you're refering to included an IS300 equipped with the 16" Wheels and all season tires (due to the timing and place of the test in the WEST VA mountains) LEXUS provides to its customers at no extra charge. Had the LEXUS sent a car with 17" wheels and z rated tires, it might have faired better.

1pierce · May 2002

but I wouldn't call it ugly. And, those Nissan engines are fantastic. That is one area where I would not rate the BMW's I drove ahead of my Maxima. Smooth, quiet, very powerful and responsive throughout the entire rev range (and that's with a 4-speed auto that is nothing to write home about). There's a reason Ward's Autoworld always ranked that engine in the top 10. I'm sure the G35 engine is awesome.

Lets face it, where the G35 falls down is in prestige value, resale value, and that magic BMW suspension that is both comfortable and comported under any circumstances.

1pierce · May 2002

Pulled the trigger today on a new 325i. Ordered the car from Three Rivers BMW in Pittsburgh. Electric Red w/black leatherette. PP, Step, Xenon, HK. MSRP $33,095. Paid just over $1,000 under MSRP. They will throw in the floor mats and change out the front license plate bracket and install the bumper trim.

They were the third dealer I went to today, and I must say, it was brutal. There is this thing here in Pgh, where they all are shooting for $1,500 over invoice. But they define "invoice" as real invoice plus $260 advert. fee, plus $100 for floor mats, plus a clearcoat on the paint, yada, yada, yada... P&W, A&L, and Three Rivers all wanted to sell me the car for $32,500.

Finally, through shopping the previous two numbers to Three Rivers, I got the deal I got. Could I have done better,...probably. But I have to admit, I was fried, and I didn't want to buy out of town, and I wanted this car ordered TODAY. They'll give me a loaner for all service except oil changes, which take less than an hour, and I can wait for. And, they were the nicest and most sincere sounding of the three. Plus, I'd driven about 6 of their cars, when you factor in the Audis I test drove. Turns out they are also the easiest to get to from my house.

Actually, I think I'm a little in shock. I don't know if its from the realization of just how EXPENSIVE this car is, or from the fact that I will finally be driving a BMW, something I've dreamed about since about 1987. Now, the dealing is over, and I have to wait until August to get the car. I get my tracking number tomorrow.

tenet1 · May 2002

I dont know about Nissan being more smooth and responsive that the i6 in the 325. My car is very responsive at all RPM ranges and is silky smooth.

The "growl" of the BMW is intentionally engineered into the vehicle to give a BMW its characteristic sound.

gregfocker · May 2002

I am sorry but the V6 from Nissan/Infiniti is not more smooth or responsive than the BMW i6. I like both the G35 and 330i and have driven both back ot back a few times. The BMW i6 is flat out AWESOME! The Nissan/Infiniti V6 in the G35 is just awesome (no capitals/no exclamation). Bottom line they are both great vehicles and when the G35 gets a manual it will be even that much closer to the 330i. Come on BMW! Up the HP for next years version! Valvetronic anyone!

brave1heart · May 2002

Congrats on taking that big move. I know the feeling, it's very special. It's a dream come true.

div2 · May 2002

I certainly don't think that BMW dealers are the only place that can do a proper oil change, but I wouldn't take ANY of my vehicles to a Jiffy Lube or similar. True, an oil change isn't rocket science, but I don't think the typical quicky lube pit monkey can even spell "rocket". A few examples:

A friend took his Jetta GLI to a quicky joint to take advantage of a "Free Tire Rotation With Oil Change" offer. The morons broke his factory wheel locks in a futile attempt to rotate the tires. Then they tell him they can't do the oil change because "We ain't got none of them special VW filters."
Several independents and dealer techs have told me about seeing Audis, BMWs, Porsches, and such come in for service with rubber plugs stuffed into the oil pans drains because the drain plugs have been stripped out. When they ask the customer when he/she went to Jiffy Lube the customers always look surprised and ask "How did you know?"
One friend was watching the Jiffy Losers change the oil in his Viggen. When they poured in the new oil it began to overflow from the valve cover. It seems the idiots had pulled the drain plug all right- the one on the transaxle.

Modern BMWs are one of the easiest cars to perform an oil change on IF you have the right parts and use common sense. The typical neanderthal at a quicky lube rarely has either. I use a Topsider and can do it in 20 minutes with my eyes closed. If I don't have time to do it myself my local independent BMW Specialist will do it for $15 more than Jiffy Lube. IMHO, fifteen bucks is a small price to pay in order to ensure the job is done properly. Remember, we're talking BMWs here, not Kias. This all kind of reminds me of the guys who say "I know BMW says to use premium gas, but will it hurt to use regular? Penny wise and TONS foolish...

chewie5 · May 2002

"Actually, I think I'm a little in shock. I don't know if its from the realization of just how EXPENSIVE this car is, or from the fact that I will finally be driving a BMW, something I've dreamed about since about 1987."

That about sums up my thoughts after I placed my order! :-)

Congrats on the car! The wait sux, but when you finally get behind the wheel of YOUR BMW, you'll realize it was well worth it.

mg330ci · May 2002

Congratulations on the car

mg330ci · May 2002

What do you mean

genie1 · May 2002

Congratulations...Enjoy it!

leenelsonmd · May 2002

I just got back from a Memorial Day vacation in Vegas. It was fun. Shows were good. Saw some M3s out there and a Navy Blue Mini with a white roof on the way out to Hoover Dam. That was the highlight of the trip. Just kidding.

bbell4: Keep the 17" wheels and go find a twistie road near Tucson and discover the true beauty of your wonderful car. I like feeling the extra bumps in the road -- it make me feel connected. In fact, I am planning on getting the 18" wheels on my 330. The look is sleek and since they are BMW motorsport rims you won't look like a teenager driving them. The SP rims are superior to the stock rims on the 325. With regard to femine things, sheilasmithermanmd above has noted her preference for the 18" wheels too. I think that women who appreciate larger rims with lower aspect ratios are terrific.

Oil changes: FWIW I have always changed the oil on my previous vehicles because I do not trust the yahoos at the "Quick Lube" type places. These guys do not have a clue and I think it is a high risk business taking your car to them for an oil change. They have no idea what kind of oil your car requires. Additionally, they will NOT put in synthetic oil for 19.95-24.95. The last time I priced an Oil change at Jiffy lube using synthetic oil it was $64.95. This does not mean that BMW is especially qualified to change the oil on your vehicle, but a dealer will usually have some clue as to the proper oil to put in and your chance of having a teenage yahoo that could care less about your car is remote. With my E36 325 I have had the dealer change the oil for me because I have been somewhat lazy frankly and have not figured out how to reset the light. The good thing about the BMW is that the oil change only comes about every 10000 miles. I still change the oil on my wife's Maxima, because I can put a Mobil 1 filter and 4.25quarts of Mobil1 oil into it in 20 minutes for $30.00 (a savings of $35 over jiffy lube and about a 20 minute time savings as well).

231HP in 2003: I would not be at all surprised to see a small change like this as jean7of9 has proposed. There are about a million tiny little things that can increase the 225HP by 6 without any significant change to the car. They may simply have updated the engine's computer controller or something like that. Honda increased the power in its Accord by 6HP a couple of years back by simply changing the power steering from hydraulic to electric. Of course I have no idea what 2003 holds, but the introduction of Valvetronic as shipo has pointed out would sure be welcomed early. The pressure is on BMW to boost some numbers, because the average person uses these numbers to shop. 2003 will see the introduction of many new models which up the bar on HP -- The Mustang Cobra for 35k will have 390HP, the subaru WRX, the Mitsubishi Evolution VIII, the G35, the Acura TL type S, etc.

That said, the G35 could have 333HP with a 6-speed gearbox and I still would not buy it in the current presentation--go sit in one and you will be overcome by the plastic inside. It needs some refinement and in the meantime its owners can lord it over the WRX owners and the like, until the SVT Mustang Cobra arrives making them all look trigger happy for jumping on the 260HP wagon while 390HP was only around the corner for the same amount of money.

I'll stick to my aspirations for an '03 330 even if it does have only 225HP.

bbrimmer1 · May 2002

Could someone please give me instructions on how to track the delivery of my 325xi. It's scheduled for the latter part of June. Thanks very much.

derprofi · May 2002

Yup, you got it sparky. If the G35 were the only car in an empty lot, thus depriving me of any handy point of reference, I might not be so harsh on the styling. But parked next to my '02 330i? There simply is no comparison. The thing is downright homely. Now get back under your bridge.

dl7265 · May 2002

Rumormill, i have not yet seen anything about valvetronic in the 3er ? All the articles are 5er and the 3 compact in 4 cylinder version. Im trying to hold off for some news on valvetronic in the 3.0 or 2.5 for that matter . Any thoughts
Dale ?

DL

bmw323is · May 2002

Good debate and opinions on these issues. As far as rotating tires goes, I took the middle road and rotated my SP tires (fron to back) at 12,000 miles because the rears were wearing about 30% faster than the fronts. No sign of handling or balance problems. One rotation will get me another 5,000 miles, or more, at a cost of $15 (I know, the BMW dealer really ripped me off there).

For oil changes after free service, my Bimmer will go to a trusted shop (which inlcudes my dealer). Used to do the changes myself, but it isn't worth the hassle for a $20 or less labor charge. Besides, my dealer gave me 5 free oil change coupons when I bought the car. FWIW, I've had dopes at the quick lube places forget to tighten the drain plug and forget to replace the filler cap. Luckily, I found the problem quickly each time. If I use the cheap places for my truck, I always check both before driving away and I check the oil level frequently anyway.

shmilybmw · May 2002

Go to www.bmwusa.com. From there, go to "Owner's Circle" and then to "Acct Status/Sign In". You'll need your production # from your dealer. Once you set up your account, you can access your order tracking. I've been waiting since 4/11 for my 330I & mine's finally due the week of 6/17.

Congratulations on the car!

john01 · May 2002

The figures that were listed on earlier post, 231bhp/221lb-ft are not potential increase in power for next year. The Europeans apparently derive the number slightly different than us Americans. As a result they are usually off by a bit. The next time you go to the Borders or Barnes & Noble, look in the back of the BMW CAR from UK. You will see that the numbers listed here match the current 3 liter I-6 output exactly. Likewise, M3 is listed as having 343 instead of 333, M5 400, instead of 394, etc.

shipo · May 2002

I heard that BMW is currently in the process of adapting their Valvetronic system for their I6 engines. Apparently the order in which they did this was the I4s first, then the V8 (the 745i already has Valvetronic), and finally the I6s. I had originally heard that 2003 was the target year for releasing those engines over here, however, my bet is that we will not see them until the advent of the E60 5-Series.

Best Regards,
Shipo

dafreak · May 2002

Don't get me wrong...I have said all along I like the 330i...In fact it was the car I was going to buy when I started car shopping...I am just thankful that I stumbled across the G35...Not only does it compare to the 330i in performance but it also has a more "luxury" feel whereas the 330 is more "basic" and, I might add smaller....Once the 6 speed comes out the contest will be over....You guys can cry all you want about the looks of the G35 but you know what...??...BMW owners are the only one who have been saying it...Enjoy your car, it is a great car anda a beautiful looking car...It does have that over the G35...It is just not worth the extra 7K for this driver...Better luck next time...

bjbird2 · May 2002

Your G-35 will also be exclusive, at least for a while. The 330i's are like Chevies, they're all over the place.

dave330i · May 2002

What does a typical American look for in their new car?

More hp, faster 0-60 times, and more standard features.

There's a lot more to a car, but a typical American seems to be stuck on them. Even those claiming to be car enthusiasts.

vkwheels · May 2002

Congratulations! I know how you feel. Yes, it is expensive, but...it should be a lovely car to drive & own.

kbhockey · May 2002

1pierce-congrats on ordering your new car! Curious, as I am also in Pitt, did you get any sense from 3R BMW that they were willing to deal on any cars in their inventory? As i have driven past there many times, it seems that they have a good turnover of lot cars.

BR,
-kbhockey

dl7265 · May 2002

Last time 4 months after my purchase they changed to "325" with more hp however less torque, didnt want that to happen again, however at the present time i can still get a very strong offer for my car, but im afraid next year off warranty it will be significantly less...

Trivia: i know why the g35 is faster than BMW , so they can hurry home and get out of that plasticky interior yuk..
DL

1pierce · May 2002

Guys, you misunderstood. I didn't say the Nissan 3.0 V6 from my Maxima was "better" than the 2.5 I6 I test drove (remember, many of us aren't in 330i territory - I'm sure its a much different ballgame at that level). I said the BMW I6 wasn't any better than the Nissan V6.

Now, lets qualify that. First, it is my subjective opinion after having lived with the V6 for 40 months. It still sounds and feels wonderful, BTW. Second, I have never driven a 2.5 I6 that was broken in, only brand new engines with a few miles on them. Third, the V6 seems to have a little more low end torque, but I find the I6 more than sufficient. Finally, I am not so enamored with that sporty "sound" of the engine, as I was 10 years ago. As I age, and have more noisy kids, I seem to be more appreciative of a quiet engine - which my Nissan has. That is one thing I REALLY noticed with the BMWs and Aduis I drove, was how the engines were engineered to give more aural feedback. Its one of the trade-offs of having a sportier car. That said, while the Nissan is very sporty while being relaxing, its also a little boring overall, which the BMW definitely is not.

I'm not saying the V6 is better, but I rate them equal IMHO, and I would not give the BMW 2.5I any rating advantage over the Maxima in engine quality.

dave330i · May 2002

I6 is natually balanced while a V6 isn't. That alone makes the I6 a smoother engine.

nyccarguy · May 2002

congrats on finally ordering your 325i! You'll enjoy it planty when it comes and remember: good things come to those who wait!

1pierce · May 2002

Three Rivers has no inventory of 325s. I've been there about 7 times in the last two months, and they usually have a few 5-series, maybe 3-4 330s, and many Audis, but NEVER more than one 325i. Every 3-series they get that is not spoken for when it arrives has PP, step, leather, metallic paint, and heated seats. I wanted red, leatherette, and I didn't want to pay for heated seats (the fact that people would buy that option over xenons or HK still amazes me - but it must be really popular, because all of the dealers acted like I was crazy for not ordering it).

If you aren't particular about color or options, try A&L in Monroeville. They are the only ones that had more than one available 325 on the lot. I think they had three the day I was there - similarly equipped to the above.

Actually, most of the 3-series you see lined up along the hill above route 19 are cars that were ordered and are waiting for delivery - they all are marked "sold". Its a tremendous tease when you want a test drive, and you can't find one to drive. I found that you just can't get on top of these guys from a "supply and demand" perspective.

1pierce · May 2002

Theoretically, you're correct. I'm just saying the Nissan 3.0 V6 is so smooth, I can't honestly say the BMW feels smoother. BMW owners hate when other buyers use subjective horsepower ratings to claim their car is better, while ignoring other factors. It is likewise not fair to say that the BMW engines are blanket superior to everything else just because of their configuration.

Nissan, Honda, and Toyota V6's are remarkably smooth. Probably too smooth for the average (or even above average) driver to discern the difference.

But, who really cares, anyway? I didn't order the BMW because it has a better engine than my Nissan - I guess that is my point. This was very much a "heart" purchase, not necessarily a head purchase. I'm 100% sure a new Maxima would have met 100% of my "needs".

1pierce · May 2002

I have a little less anxiety today. I'm sure this will fade over time, and by the time the car comes, I'll have no apprehension about the cost. Then, when I get the car, the apprehension will start again (my wife will see to it). But, after a few payments (which won't bankrupt us), I'll totally feel that I DESERVE this car, and will have no second thoughts at all.

I don't know how much money most of you guys make (and please don't post it), but my wife and I don't come from money, and while we do allright now, we both get that guilty feeling when we buy luxury items. Deep down, I know I don't "need" a BMW, and that a car costing $10,000 less would have been more than adequate. That said, I WANT this car, and always have. And, by God, I'm going to have it before I'm 40 years old. I work hard enough that I owe it to myself. And, I've never been about "adequate".

Now, my wife,...it will take her a while to accept the purchase. But, as all married people sometimes have to do,...I can ignore it, until she gets over it.

tenet1 · May 2002

The only thing certain in life is uncertainty. So do what you want to, when you want to.

You are probably a smart enough man to know that you are not going to go broke with this purchase, so just enjoy yourself. Believe me, your wife will love this car more than you. But remember, once you go BMW, there is no turning back.

1pierce · May 2002

Now that my car is on-order, I have a few questions about accessories. I've seen these on the Circle BMW site:

1. Has anybody purchased the rubber floor mats? Are they the exact same shape as your factory carpet mats - i.e., are they a perfect fit? These would be great for winter, and their black, like my interior.

2. Has anybody purchased and installed the trunk net? From the photo on the Circle site, it looks like it covers the floor of the trunk. Is this right? All the nets I've owned have stretched across the back of the trunk, behind the tail lights. I always install a net, it keeps those little things in the trunk, like scrapers, etc., from flying around on turns. Are there studs in the trunk ready to accept this net?

Any advice is appreciated. Thanks.

dave330i · May 2002

I wasn't trying to knock on V6s. With counter balance V6 can ge very smooth. However, V6 just doesn't seem as smooth as I6. It's subtle, but after your 325's broken in, I think you'll notice it as well.

vkwheels · May 2002

Rubber mats: check out the ones on ProperAutoCare.com They appear to be of good quality. They are too utilitarian for me & I don't really require that kind of protection most of the time (no kids, no snow, no mud). I will just get the bimmer mats, not sure whether black or beige.

As much as I rationalize, this is probably a decision made from the heart from me too. With this purchase, everything will be more pricey--gas, maintenance, insurance. Despite this & having ample time to bail on the deal, I'm looking forward to my new car! Is that perverted? If so, I don't think I'm the only 1.

jpnwdc · May 2002

I'm interested in a 325i and will be buying in a few months. My significant other is very concerned about maintenance costs of BMW's. I'm wondering myself since another friend of mine put about $1,500 in brakes for his 528i (over a 36 month period).

I know that BMW pays for regular maintenance for the first 36 months. However, I also understand that wear items are not always covered. Is it true that with BMW brakes, the rotors usually wear out along with the pads, i.e. don't plan on just replacing pads?

Also, does an oil change (outside of regular, BMW provided maintenance) typically cost $150?

Thanks.

1pierce · May 2002

I am somewhat hard on brakes (as most drivers of automatic transmission are). As such, I have had brake issues with every car I have owned. I asked three dealers yesterday if brakes and rotor replacement is covered under the free maintenance, and they all said "yes". That said, I'll bet that if you burn the brakes off at 5,000 miles (I'm not THAT hard on brakes), they will give you a hard time.

I've also heard that the oil change is $150, and you'll likely only get two free ones. Your wife and vkwheels are right: EVERYTHING will be more expensive buying and owning this car. I've just come to accept it as the price for membership in this exclusive club.

Kirstie_H · May 2002

A major daily newspaper is writing a story about collision damage insurance, and is looking to talk with drivers who have run into deer or moose. "In most states, such an encounter is not covered by comp. or collision damage insurance; you need special coverage. I want to talk to people who have had these collisions and learn how they handled them. Likewise, I'd also like to hear from people who were involved in some other sort of incident involving their auto and found out that insurance they thought they had was not there." Please respond no later than Monday, June 3 to paudel2001@msn.com and/or jfallon@edmunds.com. Thanks as always!

Jeannine Fallon
PR Director
Edmunds.com

BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

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