Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

1616617619621622974

Comments

  • CrevelsCrevels Posts: 37
    I'm researching replacing my 2000 TL (great, yet boring car) with something more exciting. I have been doing alot of browsing and have narrowed my list to 2-3 cars, one of which is a BMW 325Ci. Stopped at my local dealer to see/touch one, and to discuss options, hence my questions:

    1) Loved the sport seats on the showroom 330Ci, hated the premium seats. Dealer told me that you could get the sport seats by themselves, but I only see them as part of the sport package (according to the brochure). Does anyone know for sure. I'm looking at getting the PP, but don't want the SP, because I drive over 30,000 miles per year, and will need to drive the car in the winter. Could I get the SP and have the dealer swap the 17" sport tires for the 16" all-season? Any thoughts?

    2) The dealership doesn't have a 325Ci in 5-speed to test drive. They have several 325i and 323i with the SP on their CPO lot. Would a test drive in either of these cars be representative of what the 325Ci would be like?

    Still doing my homework, and any insights are appreciated.
  • locke2clocke2c Posts: 5,038
    FWD... bleh. Made that mistake once, never again for a sporty car. Mundane transportation and nothing more-- yeah, I guess that'll work.

    -Colin
  • CrevelsCrevels Posts: 37
    I'm researching replacing my 2000 TL (great, yet boring car) with something more exciting. I have been doing alot of browsing and have narrowed my list to 2-3 cars, one of which is a BMW 325Ci. Stopped at my local dealer to see/touch one, and to discuss options, hence my questions:

    1) Loved the sport seats on the showroom 330Ci, hated the premium seats. Dealer told me that you could get the sport seats by themselves, but I only see them as part of the sport package (according to the brochure). Does anyone know for sure. I'm looking at getting the PP, but don't want the SP, because I drive over 30,000 miles per year, and will need to drive the car in the winter. Could I get the SP and have the dealer swap the 17" sport tires for the 16" all-season? Any thoughts?

    2) The dealership doesn't have a 325Ci in 5-speed to test drive. They have several 325i and 323i with the SP on their CPO lot. Would a test drive in either of these cars be representative of what the 325Ci would be like?

    Still doing my homework, and any insights are appreciated.
  • katkisonkatkison Posts: 40
    Excuse the off-topic: Just for giggles, I am checking with my dealership to see what the current wait time is for an M3 convertible. I know it has to vary by dealer, but I did not have a good experience when I wanted to purchase my car from Momentum, so I ordered from Advantage Downtown. And now that the Enron guys aren't buying new cars from Advantage BMW every year, maybe we can all get lucky!

    Kelly
  • erickplerickpl Posts: 2,735
    ttenn: I lived in Keller while I was working for IBM at Westlake and going to UNT in Denton. Lived in the neighborhood behind the grocery store plaza, by the high school. Loved that area, but I agree, the roads in North Texas leave to be desired, given the ice they can get in the winter, causing rough roads. Highway 26 used to be a much more fun road before they widened it... oh well.

    -Paul
  • JingleJillJingleJill Posts: 120
    ericpl...Hey, I used to live in Denton a long time ago. I'm currently in San Antonio.

    katkinson...I went to Houston to test drive BMWs. I figured the selection would be better than in SA. I went to Advantage downtown and was not impressed. In fact when I cut to the chase and said do you have a car for me to drive or not; he went to his board, came back and said NO. I left.

    I also went to Momentum and must have waited 10 or 15 minutes just for a salesman. When I asked to test drive a 5 spd, he said all their demos were automatic. I asked him how he could sell me a car if I could not drive a 5spd. Well, what do you know, a 5spd was found. I still was not impressed. He kept excusing himself for a call here and a call there...

    I was most impressed with BMW of North Houston. Nice sales lady (client advisor), no pressure, but never returned my e-mails.

    So, when it came time to order, BMW of Austin was prompt and met/beat the other dealers prices. I expect delivery in 4-6 weeks. ;o)

    Stacy
  • kominskykominsky Posts: 850
    1) Maybe you could custom order the seats without the rest of the sport-pack if your dealer is willing to work with you, but normally they are only available as part of the package. Personally, I would get the the sport package and swap on dedicated winter tires/wheels during the snowy season (there have been many debates on this throughout this groups history if you feel like paging back to read some pros and cons). Your idea of having the dealer swap tires/wheels, again, will depend on their desire to work with you.

    2) I think that a drive in a sedan would approximate the experience you'd get in the coupe. Be sure to sit in the 330Ci some more since the biggest difference in driving experience is probably the seat height (coupe is considerably lower).

    good luck!
  • 1pierce1pierce Posts: 284
    lanas: If I were leasing, and I really didn't want to wait another two months, I'd just take the car. If I were buying, and planned to have the car for 10 years, I might think twice and refuse it. Can you afford to wait?

    That said, one of my cars got wrecked a year after I bought it and had to have a door and rear fender repainted. Six years later, those two body panels looked better than any other part of the car.

    crevels: To my knowledge you cannot get the sport seats without the SP. If the seats are a deal breaker, why don't you get the SP and replace your summer tires with all-seasons. If you did this right away, I'll bet you could sell your virtually new SP tires to somebody with a BMW, and recover some, if not all, of the cost of the all-seasons. The Ci comes standard with the SP suspension and steering wheel, so I think the price drops to about $1000 (from $1400 on the 325i).

    I think a test drive in a used E-46 3-series sedan (1999 to present) would be pretty representative of the 2002 Ci. That said, the 325i's that I test drove seemed a little quicker than my brother's 2000 323i SP (both with auto), even though the 323i has more on-paper torque. Nevertheless, I'd personally be comfortable making a decision based on test driving an older E46. After all, if you have to order, you don't really get to test drive the car you buy anyway.
  • katkisonkatkison Posts: 40
    JingleJill:

    The dealers in Houston are all controlled by a few people (I think maybe two or three), except BMW North. I would have gone there, but it is on the complete other side of town from where I work and live, so I wanted some convenience for service, etc. It turns out, after we bought ours, that BMW North delivers a loaner to you for some friends of ours, but they were LONG TIME and frequent buyers of BMWs, so I would probably have to throw their name in to get the same service.

    Anyway, Momentum was somewhat rude to us when we wanted to deal on an ordered 330i, since they didn't have any on the lot to buy. I decided I could be served better elsewhere. I went to the Internet sales person at Advantage and she was very nice, but has since left. Anyway, I wasn't planning on buying off the lot, so they could order one just like anyone else and were willing to deal up front. Of course, it turned out they had a car on the lot configured close enough to what we wanted (I wanted the cold weather package, which would have to be ordered in in hot Houston) and they were willing to deal a lot more on a car off their lot. I also went in at 5 pm on a Friday, just because it was the easiest time to get there, and they closed at 6, so they wanted to make a sale. So, while I did not get the best deal in the world, I got a pretty good deal for Houston, without doing Euro delivery, which we will probably do next time, even for the M3.

    LeeNelsonMD: Ok, talk about quick service! I e-mailed the new Internet sales person at Advantage BMW and he says 3-4 months for an M3 order, so I was thinking about right. With the number of M3s I see in Houston, I figured it had to be quick. Drive down Kirby on a Sat. afternoon and you will see what I mean. He was also anxious to offer up that I could have a Sept. build if I ordered ASAP! ;) As much as I would like to have one, with the fiance at Reliant, a large purchase is not in our near future! So, anyone who wants an M3 in Houston (or willing to travel), you can get one in a couple months!

    LOL.

    Kelly
  • orkwisorkwis Posts: 82
    Have them fix it and take the car. No matter how hard you try you are bound to get a door dent or scratch or windshield chip sometime along the way. If you believe in bad luck you can feel that you got it out of the way. Every new car I've had and I've had a lot (see back at the very beginning of the sucession game) has gotten one of the above mentioned blemishes before the temporary tags were taken off. My ED 325i is 4 weeks in the states tomorrow, I just put the plates on today and noticed a windshield stone chip. Some things never change, but at least I got the bad luck part over with (knock on wood). I wish I could write this in 4pt font but "it's just a car."
  • leenelsonmdleenelsonmd Posts: 208
    Thanks for the response. I love this board. It helps me work through this whole process and I learn something everyday. I wish I had more knowledge to share.

    Is a little talk about the M3 truly off topic? It is a 3 series and an E46. I will try to minimize it. Pat drop me a line if you want me to cool it.

    katkison: Thanks for the info. Sounds like the M can be had as quickly as a built to order 330.

    jinglejill: I have been relatively unimpressed with the Houston dealers and like katkison I loathe the drive up to BMW North although I have heard some positive things about them. My E36 325 is from John Roberts in Austin.

    soverypoor: I am not really sure what optionality means. What a story about your wife and the M roadster. I can't blame her though. I think it is pretty cool that she craves performance like you. My wife could care less about these kind of things. She doesn't really understand my constant rumination about the BMW, but she puts up with it. I may end up putting my purchase off for a while so that I can go with the M3 (although this changes daily as I read the debate on the board). The only benefit financially from buying the higher performance car is that it may have greater longevity than the 330. In 9 years when everyone's 2012 325i has 350HP and goes 0-60 in 5.3 seconds a 2003 M3 might still be able to keep up and satisfy the owner. What does everyone think? Is this reasonable? In my mind a reasonable lifetime for a new 330 might be 8 years, but I justify the M3 with a possible 10 year life.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,782
    dave330i lately?

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD, 2015 Subaru Legacy 2.5i Premium

  • CrevelsCrevels Posts: 37
    Kominsky / 1pierce - thanks for the information. Looks like I'll be trying to setup a date for a test drive in a CPO 5-speed sedan. I'll remember to check the seat height.

    As for wheels/tires, any suggestions on the best place to get them? I really like the clean look of the standard 5-spoke wheels that come with with 325Ci (Style 43), and would rather get them than something aftermarket.
  • 1pierce1pierce Posts: 284
    I don't think I've ever heard of a car lifetime described as relative performance vs newer models. I can see longevity relative to visual appearance, or new technology, but viable performance,...not convinced with regard to 330i and M3. My feeling is that if a car satisfies (even thrills) you today, why would you be less satisfied just because somebody else has more HP or performance 8 years from now(assuming you don't drive their car from time to time and experience the difference)?

    Personally, unless you race it, I don't think you'll outgrow a 2002 330i in terms of performance satisfaction. And, the idea that you would EVER outgrow a 2002 M3 is pretty far fetched.

    I'm a fan of more horsepower,...to a point. I think the technology to make engines more powerful is growing far faster than the ability of the average driver to control, utilize, and appreciate that power. A 1984 Corvette had only 190 base HP. When I drove one in 1984, I felt like it was the fastest thing on the road. My '99 Maxima has 190 HP in a nearly 10 year old design, and I still think the engine power is more than adequate. (I'm trading it because it's boring, not because it under-performs).

    I didn't mean to rant, its your decision. If your heart wants an M3, you shouldn't have to justify it with tortured logic about performance longevity.
  • 1pierce1pierce Posts: 284
    I think last year's (2001) 17" 325i SP wheels were the nicest BMW wheels ever. This is my opinion, of course.

    I'd see if the dealer will sell you those standard wheels if you like them, and make an even trade (he just might). He'll probably have to order them, though - I doubt he'll just have a set sitting around.

    Incidentally, the 1999 and 2000 323i SP came with only 16" wheels. And nobody complained about performance. I say this because like HP, I think wheel size has gotten grossly out of proportion to the level of performance that most drivers can appreciate.
  • brave1heartbrave1heart Posts: 2,698
    Most people won't come close to using the full potential of a 260-HP engine that propels a car 0-60 in 6 sec and 0-100 in 15-and change. And if they did, the police and insurance companies will make sure they don't get a chance to do it often. People that track their cars regularly know that it is mostly about driving skill. Suspension comes next. HP is a pretty low priority. More powerful engines cost money and most consumers will refuse to pay a premium for something they don't use. The acceleration numbers above will not be obsolete in 10 years.

    Anyone going to the CCA driving school at the Glen in upstate New York this month?
  • ttdudettdude Posts: 4
    I'm considering purchasing a 2002 330xi. It is a little surprising to me that these don't come with an alarm. However, I do think that it really should have one. I'm just wondering what opinions are of the BMW alarm versus other aftermarket alarms?

    Thanks
  • kominskykominsky Posts: 850
    "Anyone going to the driving school at the Glen in upstate New York this month?"

    I was supposed to, but we recently learned that my kids go back to school on the 30th (that's a Friday with Monday being a holiday... go figure!) and my wife thought if I was taking their last two days of summer vacation off it would be better to spend the time with them. So it looks like I'm gonna be going horseback riding in the Pocono's instead. I haven't been on a horse in about 20 years... hopefully they're air conditioned these days. :-)
  • On the front page of today's WSJ, there is an article on third-world factories that are building cars for sales in developed nations. It mentions the BMW plant in Rosslyn, South Africa and how the quality is on par with the German plants. BMW also gains a significant price advantage in exporting these cars to the US because of lower tariffs to encourage trade with African nations. A lot of these plants in Brazil, China and South Africa were built for anticipated growth in these markets that never materialized. So now, to keep these plants from becoming white elephants, they are working on improving quality so the cars will be competitive in developed markets.

    On a different subject, I just got back from driving around the Colorado rockies. All I could think of was how much fun the drive from Leadville to Aspen would have been in an E46. It would have been the ultimate test drive. Wasn't quite as much fun in a rental Hyundai Sonata. It wasn't too bad, until it started losing power and the Check Engine light came on halfway up Vail Pass on I-70. The light went out on its own later in the drive and everything seemed fine after that. I was even a nice guy and checked the oil every morning. I didn't want to be stranded. Good thing it has a nice long warranty. The poor guy that buys it from Hertz is going to need it.
  • Need help. My '99 CLK320 Cabriolet was stolen from valet attendant at gunpoint and I am looking to replace it. Must have convertible and need trunk space for 2 sets of golf clubs and couple of small pieces of luggage. Considering replacing with BMW 330Ci, but can't get past the different way the BMW 330Ci holds value over first 3 years compared to Mercedes 320CLK. The '99 Mercedes is still retailing at near original sales price and the 2001 BMW has lost quite a bit in depreciation. Can anyone give a logical explanation? I know there is a difference in ride between the two. I also know the BMW is rated better by all the experts. I replaced Mercedes M320 with BMW X5 this spring and the BMW is head and shoulders better, but just can't get past the differences in how they hold value. Any ideas?
  • brave1heartbrave1heart Posts: 2,698
    I am afraid you can only get 225 air-conditioned horses in the barn but you can't get them one at a time ;o)

    I went to sign up this morning but I was disappointed to find out that it's sold out. I signed up for the NHIS Sept. 6 school instead. If you have not yet cancelled your registration, I'll be happy to buy it from you.
  • Need help. My '99 CLK320 Cabriolet was stolen from valet attendant at gunpoint and I am looking to replace it. Must have convertible and need trunk space for 2 sets of golf clubs and couple of small pieces of luggage. Considering replacing with BMW 330Ci, but can't get past the different way the BMW 330Ci holds value over first 3 years compared to Mercedes 320CLK. The '99 Mercedes is still retailing at near original sales price and the 2001 BMW has lost quite a bit in depreciation. Can anyone give a logical explanation? I know there is a difference in ride between the two. I also know the BMW is rated better by all the experts. I replaced Mercedes M320 with BMW X5 this spring and the BMW is head and shoulders better, but just can't get past the differences in how they hold value. Any ideas?
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,782
    I'm sorry your car got stolen from a valet like that. At least he was smart enough to give up the car and nobody got hurt. Where do you live anyway?

    The MB CLK-Class (esp. cabriolets) is somewhat of a limited production car compared to the BMW 330CiC. The CLK (esp. cabriolets) have been in high demand (many dealers still have wait lists) since their introduction. I know the CLK sold at and above MSRP for a while. I've heard the launch of the new CLK was delayed due to the fact that the factory had so many orders to fulfill for the current CLK Cabriolet. High demand/low(er) volume vehicles like the CLK Cabriolet will command a premium on the used car market. BMWs actually hold their value quite well. If you're so concerned with resale value, have you considered the option of leasing?

    As far as the X5 vs. the ML320...enough said:)

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD, 2015 Subaru Legacy 2.5i Premium

  • kominskykominsky Posts: 850
    I never got past the webpage application. So I didn't have an actual reservation. As a New Englander, do you have any knowledge about Skip Barber's schools at Lime Rock Park? I'm thinking that would make a nice Christmas present from the wife and she's been wanting to get up that way anyhow (she lived in one of the Havens {New? East? West?} for a few years).
  • mg330cimg330ci Posts: 162
    Previous M3 last production year: 1999
    HP: 240, Torque: 236, 0-60: 5.6

    2001 330 HP: 225, Torque: 214, 0-60: 5.9sec

    Of course, the M3 was much lighter

    Anyway, just an information bit for the board and leenelsonmd

    (All values according to Edmunds)
  • locke2clocke2c Posts: 5,038
    Of course, the 95-99 M3 also made that rated 240HP at the back wheels.

    -Colin
  • brave1heartbrave1heart Posts: 2,698
    Skip Barber is on top of my wish list for any event at which I might be honored with presents. I've read articles about it and I have a pretty good idea what they do at the school. One of my colleagues' dad just did it a couple of months ago. A vendor paid for his whole department of a dozen or so to get out there for a day, can you imagine? That's my kind of vendor!! At any rate, a day is ~ $500 and I think they also have 3-day advanced/racing school events that are closer to 2 grand. At the 1-day event, you start out with a long-wheelbase pickup on wet surface to get an idea of over/understeer and they drive little Dodge open wheel racing cars in the afternoon. Oh, they also do Vipers but I heard that the little Dodge was a lot more fun 'cause it's so much lighter and nimbler. I really hope I'll get to do this some time next year...
  • kominskykominsky Posts: 850
    "Skip Barber is on top of my wish list for any event at which I might be honored with presents. "

    Well, I'll ask her if you can go too, but my wife is kinda tight with a buck so I think I'll be lucky if she agrees to send even me. LOL!
  • brave1heartbrave1heart Posts: 2,698
    You still have it easy if it's just the money. Mine will keep nagging me for spending the money AND being away the whole day instead of spending time with the kid ;o)
  • Keep on ranting. It sounds good.

    You are right about justification and rationalizations. I think this applies to any purchase, including the decision about options on the 3 series. If you crave the option and can afford it then go for it. You will be happier in the end. I have to agree that it is unlikely I would ever develop a stale relationship with a 330.

    HP: IMO we are reaching the wall on performance until a major paradigm shift occurs in transportation -- like computer controlled vehicles or the like. What is the difference in a street vehicle that goes 60mph in 6 seconds versus 5 seconds or even 4? Owning a Porsche GT2 is like window shopping without any money. You can almost never take advantage of its ability. I do not want to say that there is no advantage in being a little quicker, but does it really make that much difference? Each tenth of a second that you shave off below 5.5 seconds is going to cost you a fair amount of money and it is unlikely that the average driver like me will ever really appreciate it.
Sign In or Register to comment.