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I figure with all these oil company accountants or should I call them cooks, feeling the heat from the SEC and Dept of Justice. Buying a BMW in Houston should be getting easier. I guess the only jobs in Houston might be in the medical center. It seems to me the fastest way to get a M3 would be through European Delivery but you would not get a discount. But I guess MSRP would be considered a discount compared to what some people pay. I think this should circumvent the whole process of going on a waiting list.
Is the M3 available for ED? I did not think so.
I think MSRP is always the lowest price you will find on an M car.
I have a friend with a 2002 Audi A4 3.0 with Quattro, 6 speed, & Sport Package. He's closing in on 15,000 miles and his Z Rated Continentals are on their way out (Soft Rubber, He's somewhat of an aggressive driver, & Quattro). They may have another 2000 miles to go, but it is time for him to start doing his research. He leases his car and doesn't want to have to put tires on once a year. He loves how the Z rated tires perform & doesn't want to compromise with all season tires. He is willing to sacrifice some performance for the sake of longevity. Can anybody advise on a good set of V rated tires? Buying 2 sets of tires (Snows & Summers) with new wheels aren't an option. Thanks for your help. I'm also going to call tire rack, but wanted to see if anybody here has any suggestions.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
Nor am I; its the applied Mechanical Engineering principles of impact dynamics.
I started my premise on the facts. BMW 3 and 5 Series I6 cars have outstanding crash test results...
Which is an endorsement of their Engineering design quality. Avoid the temptation to over interpret your data.
There are far, far too many V6 cars with much poorer crash test results...
Yes, and some that have results equal and better than BMW's. Just shows that Engineering Quality is a major contributing factor.
Are you aware of any other real world results that contradict this?
The Mercedes C-Class has a V6 motor and in the IIHS tests, it outperformed the 3er.
-hh
PS: A good texts listing on the subject:
Here it is in case anyone else is interested. This link takes you to the coupe version, but they should have sedan versions also.
http://www.bimmian.com/e46coupe-europlate.htm
Do you guys think the NAV system is worth it?
Also, any idea if there are going to be any changes in the body style in 03? Has there been a release date set yet? I know...I am full of questions! Thanks again for the help/info!
I do not know about pricing. I do not think they have released that yet. BMW keeps a tight lid on stuff so they can continue to sell 2002 cars right up until the last moment.
Nav system?--Unless you are a realtor, why would you need one? It is a distracting useless toy IMO. Don't spend the money and add the extra ounces of dead weight to an otherwise beautiful car. Get a Valentine1 detector instead--it will provide hours of entertainment.
jcivitello - no changes to the body style for '03. As far as the NAV, I'd rather buy one that is portable so I could take it anywhere with me. The one that I am waiting for hasn't been built yet.
As mentioned in prior posts, there is a difference between crash test results in a artificially controlled setting (e.g., NHTSA and IIHS labs) and actual real world results (e.g., as reported by individuals who have been in crashes and by insurance companies that must determine premiums based on experienced data). The miniscule sample size for both NHTSA and IIHS tests does significantly limit some conclusions that might be drawn at a statistically significant level. Both testing agencies carefully caveat their results. That is where actual results in the real world (i.e., non-controlled setting) come into play. One needs to look carefully at the entire universe of relevant data, laboratory and otherwise.
Would be interesting to see NHTSA and IIHS each crash ten BMW I6 3 Series and ten MB V6 C-class and report the individual results, mean, and standard deviation.
Would also be interesting to look at the correlation between 6-cyl engine configuration and safety. My hypothesis: Since 1990 I6s in passenger vehicles show a significant positive correlation with front impact safety results in both laboratory and real world. Why? Unlike V6s, there aren't many and the primary users have been in safety-conscious marques like BMW (3 & 5 Series), Lexus (IS300), MB (pre-introduction of V6s), and Volvo (S80).
There are a tremendous number of factors that come into play regarding safety. Engine configuration is only one of a large set of variables. And engine configuration might only be a variable in a smaller sub-set of total crashes involving front end collision but is not likely any factor at all in all the other sub-sets of crashes (rear, side, rollover, and not even in some offset front impacts).
-Chris
Yeah I have an idea how you drive, but isn't the Audi your wife's car? j/k
Thanks again for the help!
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
I'd be willing to pay the $200 difference, but you have to pay the insurance deductible either way. Who is your insurance company? My insurance company, USAA, has an excellent glass repair and replacement system. They have an extensive network. I've only had to replace one windshield in past 13 years I've had USAA. But have had at least a dozen good glass repairs during that time.
I'm not going to even try to summarize a 400 page copyrighted technical textbook. Take the listed ISBN and plug it in to Amazon and find a copy to buy. The few pages that you can read online hardly even breaks the surface.
I'd love to learn more about the specific subject we've been discussing.
The brief bottom line is that for the level of impact we're talking about, the engine block is for practical purposes a rigid object that's not going to significantly deform to absorb a significant amount of the crash energy. Think of it as a big brick that's more "in the way" than it is helping things. The I6/V6 generalization is that things that have to be "in the way" will be less "in the way" if they're a smaller package, and that this makes more room available for crash energy absorbing structures. The theoretical ideal is 0% engine and 100% crash structure, but in reality, that's not going to happen.
... there is a difference between crash test results in a artificially controlled setting (e.g., NHTSA and IIHS labs) and actual real world results ....
Yup. And unfortunately, the uncontrolled setting of 'field reports' makes statistical analysis quite hard; and downright impossible if it involves a self-selected sample. Ditto for the statistics on crash test sampling, although that's a topic ripe for test plan scope creep.
Would also be interesting to look at the correlation between 6-cyl engine configuration and safety.
Agreed.
My hypothesis: Since 1990 I6s in passenger vehicles ...
All of the US automakers used to have I6's, typically back before they adopted FWD for weight/packaging/cost savings, so if we looked back into this time period, I think we're going to find that MB & BMW were still better, which simply reenforces our position that the single most significant contributor is the manufacturer.
FWIW, keep in mind that in the Euro crash tests, the little MB A-Class got a 4 Star rating, the same as the 3er. Actually, the A was actually better in the front. Oops.
There are a tremendous number of factors that come into play regarding safety.
Which is why this is shouldn't get beaten to death as somehow being definitive. There's a technical basis to say that a V6 may offer a slight advantage for at least one crash mode, but that alone doesn't provide a compulsion to change: after all, look at how poorly GM does, despite having a theoretical leg up.
-hh
ES300 is transversely mounted FWD V6. Isn't the S80 I6 transversely mounted versus the longitudinally mounted IS300 and 328i I6s? Should an E-W configuration help or hurt versus a N-S configuration?
The MB did quite well. But so did the rest. All received a "G", the highest rating for "structure/safety cage" as well as all "Injury measures" (except one "A" for the 9-5).
The BMW fell down on "restraints/dummy kinematics" and "head restraint design", but neither is related to engine configuration.
The BMW is the oldest design tested of these 6 Best Picks. It is a MY 2000 328i. The C-class was redesigned in 2001. The Volvo S80 discusses differences in 2000 & 2001 designs/equipment versus 1999. The Saab 9-5 is a brand new 2002 design.
Look at the intrusion measurements for each. Not sure what conclusions can be drawn. The I6 328i beats the V6 9-5 and I6 S80 but loses to the V6 C320. Essentially a tie between the I6 328i and V6 ES300. And the I6 IS300 beats the I6 328i.
Anyone else have a similar problem?
Anyone know where I could find this digital push button part?
I had Dunlop SP5000's before and I liked them.
any "good name" (i.e. meguiar's, mothers', etc.) cleaning solution will do...
-Chris
While on this mundane topic, I was wondering if anyone has suggestions about
getting rid of scratches on the bumpers. Some of them are deep enough to require touch-up paint.
brave: Those SP5000 seem too good to be true. I'll have to read up on them. The stars aligned for me in that tournament. Rounds like that happen once every 10 years for me.
silverprincess: Keep alot of wax on your horizontal surfaces. When I use to wax my cars frequently (before wife and kids), bird droppings would dry up in the sun, and slide right off my car with just a flick. That said, I agree with brave - get it off of there the instant you see it. I keep an old towel and a squirt bottle in the trunk. Use alot of water so you don't scratch the clearcoat, and watch where you park. Birds are the enemy, when it comes to car maintenance.
This is of particular interest to me, since I still don't have my 2002 - and the 2003's are ready for order!!!! My reaction, as somebody who probably could have waited for the '03, had I thought it necessary:
Nav System DVD: Who cares? This option is still WAY too expensive in most cars, and probably two cars from now for me.
Head Unit Aux: Again, who cares? The unit is already setup to take the 6-disc in the trunk. What else are you going to add?
3rd headrest: These look neat when you look into the car, but I agree with others - they obstruct vision, are generally useless, and I'm glad my 2002 won't have it.
Rain Sensor and Auto-headlight: More decisions being made for me. I'll decide when to use my headlights, thank you. Although it is probably switchable?
Armrest/Console: FINALLY!!! It warms my heart to know all that complaining was not in vain. If this had been standard in 2002, I might have passed on the PP - but probably not, since I'm glad I got a sunroof and power seats. Now, if they would just make the sport suspension standard on the 325 sedan, like on the coupe and the 330 - some of us could have it w/out SP tires.
Moonroof on the Wagon: Irrelevant. Has anybody here ever seen a 3-series wagon? That concept is more ridiculous than the X5.
330 Options: Don't care. Not in 330 league, now or for a long time. I think a 325 will be enough car for me for a while.
All in all, it looks like I didn't miss anything with my 2002.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
it makes it look brand new (well, other than the couple scratches and dings) for about 3 days... then it gets back to it's "normal state" for the next 5 months and 28 days...
dunno on the bumper scratches... probably the best bet is to try to fill them first, before you use touch up... a lot of times, the touched up area ends up looking worse than the scratch did...
-Chris
For less than the cost of your 6-disc changer, I could get an iPod that holds 200 hours of music and isn't limited to the trunk of your car. Granted it isn't CD quality, but I doubt you could tell the difference through your car stereo.
Anyone want to trade head units when they get a '03 model?
-murray
I've got my sights set on a Passat W8 wagon with 6-spd manual transmisson. 0-60 in 6.2 seconds (est.), 270hp, 273 ft-lb of torque at 2750 rpm, AWD, 20/27 mpg (est.), and 36 cubic feet of cargo capacity, all in a package for under $40K.
Throw the kids in the back seat - strollers and other gear in the cargo area and you've got a vehicle that will run circles around any SUV. Would be a nice complement to the 330, which is still BTW at the body shop awaiting a new roof from Germany. :-(
Wagons kick [non-permissible content removed]!
Wagons - I really like them too, esp. the Avant and the iT. I'd seriously consider one when we need more room for the family.
I was initially looking at 3 series wagons but opted for the sedan due to the added cost, the rack mounts standard on the sedan and I liked the looks of the sedan better.
Our next vehicle will likely be another wagon or a minivan.
-murray
http://bimmer.roadfly.org/bmw/forums/e46/forum.php?postid=954053&page=1
and on Bimmerfest, go to the General discussion area for pricing
http://www.bimmerfest.com/pdf/my2003orderingguide.pdf
Have fun!!!
By the way, is a Subaru Forester a wagon or SUV?
Disagree on the wagon. I think it looks cool. I will look to get one of those or a used 5er wagon sometime in the future.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
Also is it possible that Canadian and USA 3's are assembled on two different lines. While USA 3's come pre-wired for the Homelink module (BMW's own garage opener)Canadian 3's are not pre-wired. This option is neither provided by BMW Canada nor it is possible to retrofit the USA module. Only the the fivers are indulged with this.
Jean
Our people hauler is a 2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited with the Quadradrive to take us skiing. I'd rather take the BMW though. But it just doesn't have the storage for 4 people's ski equipment (including clothing).
Maybe if just me and wife go...
-Paul
Talk about charges for bmw coolant! I took my 325xi in for my first oil change (15k miles)and was advised to have the tires rotated. When I asked what the charge for that service was, I was informed, $100! The local tire store charges $40
-Paul
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD