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BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

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Comments

  • kominskykominsky Member Posts: 850
    I'm in line with Dave.. ~26mpg average with one-way commute being 10 miles whoop-it-up farm roads and 32 miles relatively high speed highway driving. Like Dave, I have a manual transmission.
  • lokkilokki Member Posts: 1,200
    I'm in the Dallas area and spend a lot of my time at 75 mph, well, because it's Texas and people drive faster here. My average speed, from parking space to parking space is just under 45 mph, including all stops. Pretty fair, I'd say for 20 miles in Dallas.

    My gas milage runs consistently at approximately 24.5.

    My wife, with an identical car but who has strictly city driving, averages 19.5 regularly.

    FWIW

    Most of you have E-46 models so this won't tell you anything, but that's OK for me.. I think it's interesting data.
  • tenet1tenet1 Member Posts: 354
    The gas mileage is pretty good for the performance of this car. I get over 300 miles per tank with almost 90% spirited and "step-on-it" driving (10% is when the wife moans) in a mix of city and hwy driving.

    On a trip from DC to NYC, I recorded an average speed of 72 mph (very good for a 4 hour drive with several slow patches and tolls) and GAS mileage of 32MPG. IMPRESSIVE!! I was doing over a 100 mph on several open stretches.

    Either way, this car is too good not to push hard.
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    ...is largely psychological, if you are a person who drives near or under the national average of 15,000 miles per year.

    let's say regular 87 is $1.25 one day, and $1.45 for premium 91-93. a $.20 premium is probably high for most people-- but I don't care to have a gas price survey in this discussion topic.

    now let's look at that $.20 premium, for 15,000 miles using 3 economies: 15 mpg, 20 mpg, and 25 mpg.

    15,000 miles / 15mpg * $.20 per gallon = $200
    20 mpg = $150
    25 mpg = $120

    Even at the worst consumption you've got a fraction of anyone's car payment, 6 month premium for insurance, overall gas costs, even yearly services! Folks this is not a significant cost of ownership.

    But let's go to the extreme-- 50,000 miles per year at only 15 mpg. In that case you've paid $666 extra for premium, but again consider that against your overall fuel bill and the fact you're incurring major services 3-4 times per year (or paying BIG when you skip them and suffer later).

    -Colin
  • bobmid2bobmid2 Member Posts: 3
    Hi all, I have on order a 2003 330i Jet Black, sand, Step, xenon, PP, CW and power rear sunshade (the latter is holding me up until Dec. due to availability). I'm thinking about adding the sport pkg. My concerns are cold/inclement weather handling and tire life. How does this car handle in freezing temps. if roads are dry and clear? How many miles can I expect out of a set of tires? I live outside Washington DC and the winters are not too harsh. Any feedback or insight would be helpful.
    P.S. was able to purchase for $1,600.00 over invoice and got a set of floor mats to boot!
  • dave330idave330i Member Posts: 893
    To make things even more fun, you get a better mileage and performance using premium vs. regular. I believe someone posted while back that mileage drop off due to regular fuel negates the price diff/gallon
  • erickplerickpl Member Posts: 2,735
    WOAH! I've had my car 6 months and have already scheduled my first maintenance... :)

    I too have noticed my mileage has gotten much better. :) Maybe I'll squeak out another mile or so when I put the K&N air filter in and have it breathe a bit easier.

    -Paul
  • brave1heartbrave1heart Member Posts: 2,698
    The 16" Spiders are $119.
    The 16" Type 5 are $109.

    I cannot post the links here because the are too long so I am e-mailing them to you instead...
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    I drive 20 miles to work. Sometimes it takes me 20 minutes, sometimes and hour and 20 minutes. My computer tells me my average speed is about 20-25 miles per house. I usually reset the computer after I fill up. That's pretty dismal, but the car is used for commuting to work.

    My gas mileage on the other hand usually is 24.5. Sometimes I get to 25.5 While I can't beat the gas pedal in rush hour traffic, I do enjoy occasional hard acceleration. Not bad for a 3L engine. In addition, I've tried 91, 93 and Sunoco 94. I definetly notice a difference in pep as the octane goes up. The knock sensors do a great job in this engine.

    After the previous posts on sport mode, I slapped the shift lever right into sport mode for the way home. Clearly the car had more aggressive shifts accelerating. However, when I hit cruising speed and leveled off on the gas pedal I noticed the tranny settled into a normal rpm rate, which I took to mean 5 gear overdrive. I also noticed it took less pressure on the gas to downshift.

    Today drove a 2002 325i loaner. The dealer replaced a rim, which came in damaged when I bought the car. The 325 was definitely no slouch, but was a completely different ride than the 330i. The ride was softer and it didn't have as much low end get up and go as the 3L. Of course being a smaller engine it would have less low end torque, but I guess I was surprised at the big difference, the suspension, tire size and low profile tires, gearing and engine made to the whole package. It had all the hallmarks of a fine ride, except for the razor sharp acceleration and throaty sound of the 3L. In addition, I found the metal (titanium?) trim of the 330i to be much cooler looking. BTW, my dealer is great, I really look forward to going there and drooling over the M3s and M5s. This is the one car in all the years of owning that I've never had to bring back for any mechanical adjustment. In six months I've brought it back 4 times. Once for the alarm install, twice to attempt to fix the buzz with the radio, including replacing speakers, and this last time to get the rim replaced.
  • brave1heartbrave1heart Member Posts: 2,698
    It's not about having money (we don't have much at all) - it's just that as locke2c demostrated above, either way you slice it and dice it, gas a is an insignificant part of anyone's budget. I apologize if I were insensitive, though...
  • brave1heartbrave1heart Member Posts: 2,698
    I drove both the 325i SP and 330i SP manual before I bought my 325i and I did not notice any difference in the ride stifdness or steering response. The biggest difference was acceleration in the low RPM's - the 325 doesn't have much below 3K RPM's while the 330 had abundant acceleration at any RPM speed. Wondering if the 325 that you drove had the sport package. Also, the 325 manual is much faster than the auto especially with more aggressive gearing. Yep, the titanium trim looks very cool...
  • bmw323isbmw323is Member Posts: 410
    I'm not from DC, so I don't know the weather there. The SP certainly makes the car more fun and sporty from a cornering and braking standpoint. The tires will not do well in snow and ice. From what I've read, it does not seem that most drivers in the DC area switch to snow tires. The sport tires will likely last about 25,000 miles unless you are a aggressive driver or track the car.

    My advice always goes back to how you drive/use the car. All city traffic driving - don't spend the money on the SP (should have bought a Lexus or Infinity or Acura in that case). If you like handling and drive on country or mountain roads, get the sport package and use snow tires in the winter if you need to. I remember my first drive in the mountains on a BMW club ride. I would have paid $35,000 for the car for that DAY alone! What a thrill.
  • mike330xi2mike330xi2 Member Posts: 1
    To bobmid2: From what dealer did you get the 1600$ over invoice? Most of the dealers around me are not giving me a price close to that for a 330xi. I'd appreciate any help or tips to negotiate with these bmw dealers.
  • denkdenk Member Posts: 75
    Washed my new 325xi with only 700 miles on it this afternoon and discovered that some sob stole all four of my valve stem covers. And I am very careful about where I park the car. What are the names of the places that sell bmw parts at a discount. I recall that Circle BMW is one but can't remember the others.
  • kominskykominsky Member Posts: 850
    This is interesting... when I do a search for wheels for a 330Ci, the 16" X 7.5" Type-5's that come up are $155. when I do the search for a 325i, the 16" X 7.5" Type-5's that come up are $109. I guess this is because the ones that fit over the 330 discs are physically different from the ~normal~ ones. Or maybe it's a conspiracy... maybe they just don't like 330 owners. LOL!
  • kominskykominsky Member Posts: 850
    circlebmw.com and pacificbmw.com are my two personal favorites. I think a lot of people like cutterbmw.com, too.
  • twoof1twoof1 Member Posts: 308
    If there is any BMW documentation that says the step will does not shift into 5th in "S" mode, it is flat WRONG. I drive my 325 in "S" mode 80% of the time. The balance of the time it is in "M" mode. I don't think I have ever had it in "D" mode for more than 10-15 seconds total. Mine shifts into 5th in "S" mode as a normal course of action just like it shifts from 1st to 2nd. I don't understand the confusion. I don't understand why they even have the "D" mode except to get a higher avg. fuel economy rating for the window sticker. Off the line in "D" mode the car feels like a dog. Maybe it is the way the system has learned my driving habits but for me the choice between the two is a no-brainer.

    Brave,
    I had a set of 17" Mille Miglia Spiders on one of my previous cars pre Z3 and 325 (OK don't laugh it was a Mitsu Diamante. Actually a very decent car for the price). They looked great!! I would love to see some pics of your 325 with them on.
  • bobmid2bobmid2 Member Posts: 3
    Mike, I ordered my car from BMW of Sterling (VA) Michael Lee is my sales person. I actually got a lower price from BMW of Fairfax $1,450.00 over invoice but Sterling is closer to my home in Leesburg. I wish I could say the pricing was due to my great negotiating skills but I told both sales reps that I was a member of Navy Federal Credit Union. NFCU has a pre-negoated pricing program, many credit unions offer this. You can also try United Buyers Service, Costco etc. Good luck, Bob.
  • bobmid2bobmid2 Member Posts: 3
    Thanks for the response. My driving is city/country and I'm going to go with the SP. My main concern was how the Z rated tires would handle in freezing temps (I have an Isuzu Trooper to drive if it snows). I did some research at Tire Rack and found a couple of good choices in high performance all season tires. I know I'm going to give up a little performance though. Bob
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    I very rarely use "S" mode, I do use manual a lot though. I find the 3L has more than enough when I step on the gas.

    There's nothing wrong with "D" mode to raise the gas mileage. The way my commute is anyway, I would like to have better gas mileage as I don't go very fast.
  • brave1heartbrave1heart Member Posts: 2,698
    "Some of us, however, didn't care for the 3 Series' updated headlight design, preferring the neatly scalloped versions of last year to the droopy underline of this year's beams." I am glad I am not the only one that's been saying that.
  • twoof1twoof1 Member Posts: 308
    If I had a 330, I would probably use "D" more also. In my 325, it makes a world of difference. The 2.5 motor needs to be worked a little more to keep it pulling strong.
  • mschukarmschukar Member Posts: 351
    Some of us, however, didn't care for the 3 Series' updated headlight design, preferring the neatly scalloped versions of last year to the droopy underline of this year's beams

    That's an interesting observation since the turn lights clearly sweep up on the '02 models while the previous models sweep down. If anything, the older models look more like a droopy eyelid.

    I think they both look good, but I think the '02 looks a bit more refined if you compare them side by side.

    -murray
  • mschukarmschukar Member Posts: 351
    All the weight over the driven wheels allows the car to put more power down without slipping

    I agree, most FWD cars have more weight over the drive wheels, but the 3 series nearly equal weight distribution so the difference is negligible.

    I believe a 3 with winter tires will be better than nearly any car with all season's in the snow regardless of which or how many tires are driven.

    -murray

    p.s. I think Subaru is providing false advertising. I caught a commercial stating the advantage of "AWD for avoiding accidents". I don't know about others, but I've never been in a situation where lacking ability to accelerate caused an accident! If anything, being able to accelerate more easily gives me the confidence to drive faster when the conditions may impair stopping.
  • mschukarmschukar Member Posts: 351
    One point to locke's gas costs-that didn't take into account the increased mileage you will see using premium fuel. It may not completely pay for the $.20 difference, but it will reduce it some.

    FWIW, I keep a log of every gas fill up on my '02 325i manual. I have a 35 mile round trip commute on rural roads with several stop signs and one stop light. I usually hit red line a couple times each day and take the car into town which reduces the mileage. I've always used 93 octane fuel.

    I've averaged 25.7 overall with a minimum of 22.6 on the very first tank full and a maximum of 27.6 on a weekend trip. The first 5 fill ups all had better mileage than the previous.

    The OBC is always high compared to actual miles and gallons, sometimes by as much as 1 mpg.

    -murray
  • dave330idave330i Member Posts: 893
    DC doesn't get cold enough to warrant snow tires for winter, but you do want to replace summer to all-season performance tires.
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    quote: One point to locke's gas costs-that didn't take into account the increased mileage you will see using premium fuel.

    you're the second person to make that observation, and if I may comment I think the proper phrase would be "...the increased mileage you might see using premium fuel."

    if you see an impact in mileage running less than premium, that should be an indicator that your engine really REQUIRES premium. remember that a given engine needs differing octanes depending on environmental conditions (high altitude = less), terrain (hills = more), driving conditions and even manufacturing tolerances. using the knock sensor to keep things from getting crispy isn't what I'd call running OK on regular.

    if you get better mileage and yet there was no timing retard with regular, I'd say "huh". stranger things could happen I suppose but it's not too likely.

    -Colin
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    The manual recommends premium fuel 91 octane and above. It seems to me running the engine on fuel not approved for the engine, ie. octane 87 or 89, you risk whatever detrimental effects that occur for using sub-standard fuel in a high performance engine. What are those effects? I can only guess? But I would guess one big effect is a corresponding loss in performance, less efficient fuel utilization and maybe lower gas mileage, due to the engine working harder for the same amount of acceleration etc. Although I'm sure the car would run with no permanent damage.
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    I wouldn't be so sure.

    The knock sensor is reacting to detonation. Detonation being an explosion in place of normal fuel burn. Not a fast flame front, an explosion resulting in several times normal cylinder pressure and very high temperatures.

    Detonation melts pistons, valves, cracks rings, and so on.

    So why would you use low octane fuel and hope that a knock sensor will save your engine? After it pulls back timing as much as the ECU allows if you keep you foot in it then what? Melted parts.

    -Colin
  • mschukarmschukar Member Posts: 351
    Here's an article on using regular vs. premium fuel in a variety of engines. Basically, you'll see performance gains if your engine calls for premium, otherwise you'll be wasting your money. It doesn't say anything about mileage, but I guess I assumed that higher engine output corresponded to higher mileage. Is that not correct?

    http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/home.xml

    (go to Car & Driver and search for "octane")

    -murray
  • rogerabrogerab Member Posts: 29
    I live in an area where we receive a fair amount of snow and its very cold for 5 months. I am considering a 330i with winter tires or a 330xi
    without winter tires. I understand Dynamic Stability Control will be a standard feature and not an option on 2003 models.

    Any suggestions on which to purchase.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    DSC (dynamic stability control) comes standard on BMW models. As far as which model to purchase, only you can determine your comfort level with RWD vs. AWD. The AWD could give you a margin of comfort and performance on snow that RWD can't.
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    murray,


    here's a REAL analysis of the role of octane in gasoline engines:


    http://forums.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=54942


    set aside a good half hour or so, you'll learn a lot.


    -Colin

  • mschukarmschukar Member Posts: 351
    Simple facts:

    AWD only helps when your foot is on the accelerator and can hurt braking and handling due to the extra weight (200-300 lbs).

    Winter tires help in all driving conditions (accelerating, braking, handling, etc.) Winter tires add true safety by allowing you to avoid accidents.

    Winter tires cost about half to one third as much as AWD.

    You can change winter tires in the summer while you're forced to haul around the extra weight and drive loss of AWD all year long thus reducing your mileage.

    Personally, I don't see AWD as a replacement for winter tires, but a compliment; if I felt I needed AWD in the area I lived, I would certainly want winter tires for the added safety.

    -murray
  • joes230joes230 Member Posts: 94
    Car and Driver studied AWD vs 2WD and all-season vs winter tires in this article.


    As mschukar said, C&D found that a 2WD car with winter tires performed better than an AWD car with all-season tires. Of course winter tires on AWD would be best. But for those with (or thinking about getting) a 2WD car, winter tires make a huge difference.


    http://urlizer.com/00/1366/


    -- Joe

  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    I agree a RWD with good winter tires can do better in the snow than the best 4wd system with bald tires. The braking issue is an example of taking a positive (better traction) of AWD and turning it into a negative (worse stopping distances). Of course the upside to more weight is the added traction. Ever see a snow plow get stuck in deep snow?

    So if the question is: RWD with winter or AWD with all-season. To me based on my experience AWD with all-seasons, in spite of the mags.

    Of course, getting 4 winter tires on your AWD is realy the way to go. Without AWD, there is a limit to what I would take my car out in for fear of getting stuck. The extra height and weight and traction of AWD makes it indispensible if you have a critical need for getting places in conditions where you would not hesitiate to leave your RWD in the garage.

    Me I skirted the issue, because should I need it, my other car is a SUV appropriately equipped for bad snow conditions.

    edit - I just reread the article as I've read it before. I have one based problem with the article, in that it doesn't address how normal people drive when there is 14-16 incles of unplowed snow on the street at the end of your driveway.

    Gonna take out your RWD 330i with snows? Not me. But I would feel much more secure in an AWD vechicle with snows. The article talks about accelerating to 50 and stopping. It doesn't talk about the potential for getting stuck in deep snow and the fact most drivers in bad conditions, drive at 15 mph.

    I agree the whole point is moot if your talking a few inches or packed powder, but many inches of fresh powder is a completely different story.
  • mschukarmschukar Member Posts: 351
    Of course the upside to more weight is the added traction. Ever see a snow plow get stuck in deep snow?

    No, but would you want all that weight sliding towards you on a slippery road on tires not optimized for winter driving? Weight gives you traction, but it also gives you momentum which is a bad thing in terms of avoiding accidents.

    Without AWD, there is a limit to what I would take my car out in for fear of getting stuck

    I can't disagree, but in 20 years of Iowa and Wisconsin winters, I've never been stuck in snow nor missed a day of work due to deep snow while driving mostly RWD cars.

    I have one based problem with the article, in that it doesn't address how normal people drive when there is 14-16 incles of unplowed snow on the street at the end of your driveway.

    Normal people should stay home if there are 14-16 inches of unplowed snow! If that's typical in the area you live and you absolutely need to get somewhere, a 330 isn't the vehicle to be driving regardless of tires and how many wheels are driven.

    I totally agree that AWD with winter tires are necessary if you live in the mountains and/or get tons of snow. Most of us don't have to deal with that, though, and would be better served with winter tires alone.

    -murray
  • bimmer3ibimmer3i Member Posts: 48
    Do you install/use snow tires during winter? My tires are performance (SP) tires. I appreciate any input.
    TIA
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    Whats the average snowfall where you live. You are one of the rare few who can get by with RWD and winter tires in extremely deep snow. As I stated in my post, I do go out in extreme snow conditions, but I use my SUV. I have seen people limp by in 12 inches of snow with RWD. IT CAN BE DONE, but IMHO it's not optimal. As far as the weight issue goes, it's a non-issue since whatever is on the road is on the road. You can ban vehicles over 3362 lbs. Maybe when it snows, we should use our bicycles. BTW ever see a light truck even with RWD and snow tires in snow, it stinks. :)

    bimmer3i - Since 1985, I've either owned FWD or 4WD vehicles. This is the first time owning a RWD. I have never put snows on any of the cars and I won't start now. Even during the blizzards and ice storms of the 90's I used all-season tires. To murray's point, I limped along. But I plan on using the Continental all-seasons this winter. But that's me. As I previously posted I have a SUV as a backup vehicle in the family.

    Stay tuned.
  • mschukarmschukar Member Posts: 351
    Whats the average snowfall where you live

    I live in Madison WI. I'm not sure what the average snow fall is here, but we have snow plows so it's extremely rare to drive through 12 inches of snow. When that day comes, I'll stay home.

    You are one of the rare few who can get by with RWD and winter tires in extremely deep snow

    Where did you come up with that?!? I don't have any dilutions of driving through "extremely deep snow" in any vehicle.

    Where do you live where you routinely get 12 inch snows?

    I have never put snows on any of the cars and I won't start now

    Why not? The way I see it, it's cheap insurance. You really should give it a try so you can speak with some knowlege on winter tires.

    -murray
  • purchasingsoonpurchasingsoon Member Posts: 74
    i stopped reading this forum because the repeated snow tire talk IS DRIVING ME INSANE. but every few weeks i check back hoping its gone. sure enough, more tire talk. ahhhhh!!! it has been covered exhaustively. anyone else with me? can we stop?? please? pretty please?
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    I used to put snow tires on my RWD cars. I stopped though when all-season radials came into vogue. You might get less snow in Madison, WI than we do here in the NY tri-state area. I assumed you were in snow belt country.

    The weather here has been strange the last 10 years or so. In the mid-90s we had two years of horrendous snow and ice storms.

    Starting in 1999, we had only a few snow falls for the winter, but when it came it was dastardly.

    I have been driving on all-season tires since 1985 in the tri-state area. As I said, some years I limped along, but it could be done. My Jeep with Quadradrive had all seasons and could out-run and out-brake most other cars. (Since the Quadradrive works on acceleration and de-acceleration, 4 channel EDB brakes also helped). In other words, when braking, it finds the wheel with the most traction.

    Net-net we all have different views and there is not one right for anybody. The only caveat now is I'm concerned about the winter and we will see how the all-seasons and DSC works.
  • r0n1r0n1 Member Posts: 3
    A month ago I purchased a half year old BMW 330Ci executive car with 8K miles on it. The oil service lamp went on today and I had to add one quart of oil myself because the service department is closed. Probably the car would need more than that. The first scheduled oil service is at 15K miles, so does that mean that the engine has a leakage? that the first owner drove it hard? I'm surprised the dealership didn't check the oil level before they sold it to me.
    Does any one know if that's normal?
    Thanks
  • riezriez Member Posts: 2,361
    purchasingsoon... Completely concur. How many times can people ask the same question and get the same answer? If you can afford to buy a new BMW, then can't you afford to buy some snow tires if you live in an area with lots of snow? But if you live in southern CA, the south, or SW USA, then you probably can get by on the summer tires or all seasons. And it isn't like there isn't already a ton of information here, other sites, in automotive press, etc. on the subject of tires, in general, and snow tires, in particular.
  • ccotenjccotenj Member Posts: 610
    that others are coming around to my view on snow tires... :)

    -Chris
  • rhmassrhmass Member Posts: 263
    rOn1, A quart of oil after 8k miles is absolutely normal. In fact you might expect it to need oil added more frequently during break-in, as you car was obviously going through. Check the oil level more often, rather than relying the oil light to tell you.
    While BMW recommend oil change at 15k, they now actually cover the service annually, regardless the mileage. Take advantage of this practice.
  • dinanger1dinanger1 Member Posts: 5
    I have a 2001 330ci 5-speed with the works. I enjoy the car...it's rocket fast and handles well. I think the car is more than I need, though, and I've yet to be able to shift smoothly. My passenger's heads are always bobbing around, especially when I'm shifting in the lower gears. I'm contemplating trading to a 325i automatic. Can anyone offer an insight (financial or ortherwise) into this potential decision? Thanks.
  • sjmurray2sjmurray2 Member Posts: 65
    I agree as well, please no more snow tire chat!!
  • dinanger1dinanger1 Member Posts: 5
    I have a 2001 330ci 5-speed with the works. I enjoy the car...it's rocket fast and handles well. I think the car is more than I need, though, and I've yet to be able to shift smoothly. My passenger's heads are always bobbing around, especially when I'm shifting in the lower gears. I'm contemplating trading to a 325i automatic. Can anyone offer an insight (financial or ortherwise) into this potential decision? Thanks.
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    trent,

    regarding the head bobbing, how long have you driven manual transmission vehicles? have you ever really thought about what is happening at the various points of clutch & throttle engagement and asked questions about it?

    timing is everything and even after you know exactly what to do it takes practice. it's not impossible to learn to be silky smooth though if you're of average coordination and care to try...

    in other words, I think it's a dumb idea to get a 325 auto. :-D

    -Colin
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