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BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

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  • div2div2 Posts: 2,580
    I may just have to trade my Club Sport for this:

    http://www.newscom.com/cgi-bin/prnh/20021212/NYTH125
  • carnaughtcarnaught Posts: 1,610
    ....is this the BMW 3-series board?
  • mg330cimg330ci Posts: 162
    Probably too strong adjectives for our civilized forum.

    I have always believe that you should drive what ever you like and want, and hope I did not offend any fellow board participant who drives one of those..... things 8-D

    That being said... My neighbor just borrow our minivan for the 4th time in 2 months because his Ford SUV doesn't have the room to do the job ;)
  • kominskykominsky Posts: 850
    While I would love to credit my driving skills for catching up with that 911, once he saw me coming, he left me behind in a quick way. I'm just amazed he wasn't moving a little faster to begin with. The roads through Delaware State Park are amazing. Perfectly paved, very few off-camber turns (which are abundant through most of area) and loaded with switchbacks, decreasing radii turns, highspeed sweepers, etc.

    Div, I'll take my Performance Pack 330i in Topaz! Sounds sweet! According to my agreement with wife,, only one more year before I'm ~allowed~ to start shopping again. ;-)
  • brave1heartbrave1heart Posts: 2,698
    The 330i HP seems to be the E46 equivalent of the E36 M3. Note that it was put together by the M division of BMW AG ;o) It looks great but I suspect the package will be ~ 5 grand and its limited availability will command MSRP.
  • locke2clocke2c Posts: 5,038
    obviously they're trying to bridge the substantial gulf between the existing 330i sport and the M3.

    I doubt it'll perform overall as well as an E36 M3 though.

    -Colin
  • div2div2 Posts: 2,580
    Well, I own an SUV because I live at the end of a half mile of undulatind gravel road-that neve sees a snowplow(Satch calls it a "Private Pro Rally Stage"). Otherwise I wouldn't own one. What worries me is that a lot of the same criticisms such as "need" and fuel economy can be leveled at car enthusiasts as well- Do you really "NEED" a three liter engine? Of course not; all you "NEED" is a one liter engine. Don't you care about our children's FUTURE??? Don't laugh- the safety geeks and their enviromental nazis at Consumer Reports are already calling for horsepower limits as even base engines provide "adequate" power...
  • locke2clocke2c Posts: 5,038
    div2-- wait, that's logic talking. shush.

    it's a lot more popular to bash on SUVs than it is to drive an Insight. or even a Metro.

    -Colin
  • mg330cimg330ci Posts: 162
    Certainly, the huge escalate in HP we are seen lately,particularly in <25k cars reminds me of the 70s just before the oil crisis.

    It took 10 years for the 3 series to jump from 180 to 220 HP. Now, with the HP war we are witnessing, I wonder what will come next?

    To compete (by numbers only) and advertise 260HP like the G35, means the same 40H increase but in 1 instead that gradually in 10 years!

    The bigger heavier cars, on the other hand, need large amounts of HP to barely move, and the fact that the companies sale so many of those, is probably raising some eyebrows.

    10 years ago, a 7 sec 0-60 was exotic car territory, nowadays, the econoboxes easily match this, so the monster trucks.

    Live is good, but also cyclical. Venezuela is in strike, Sadam is playing cat and mouse with the world.= no oil... interesting

    Perhaps I'll be buying my car at the end of my lease if the HP curve turns around (scary)
  • seivwrigseivwrig Posts: 388
    All this talk of SUVs, econoboxes, exotics...reminds of the guy on Dream Car Garage. Driving (insert Dream Car here), "Do you need this car??? Hell No!!!, Do you want this car??? Hell Yes!!!)" I personally get a kick out of this, but this probably the thinking of the soccer mom that has traded in the trusty Toyota Sienna for a Texas size custom Ford Excursion with more televisions than in my entire house. Would I own an SUV, it depends. I find minivans to be more practical, especially when you remove the seats.

    From an earlier post, where I mention having a 330Ci as selfish. I think that maybe mg330ci asked if I might be jealous. The answer is yes. The 325i was as selfish as I could get. I have owned one coupe (when I was single). I also have a two seat pickup truck. When purchasing my 325i, I tried to justify to my wife that I have a truck with two seats, why can't I get a coupe? (I don't put the seat back for anyone, so a 325Ci/330Ci for me just as well have two seats. If you don't have any children, a 325/330Ci is a cool car to have. When you have children that as tall as yourself, having a coupe seems like a cruel joke. Hence the justification of the term selfish. O.K., let me have it. I think I have developed seal skin by now.
  • Driving the M3:

    with wife: "slow down Mario".

    with girlfriend: --no words, she just can't stop laughing and smiling.
  • hippo168hippo168 Posts: 115
    I just don't see why people want an SUV, even for soccer moms or whoever. Mini vans are much more practical, and much easier to get on/off. I guess it is because some people, esp in this country, think that bigger is better. (super size this, super size that, triple cheese burger, etc...)

    Now that Porsche has follow suit with the Cayenne, lets hope the Ferraris and Lamborghinis are not going to be next.

    And for all those HPs:
    Honda Accord V6 - 240HP
    Infinity G35 - 280HP
    Nissan Maxima - 255HP
    ...
    Porsche Boxster S - 258HP

    They are not in the same class, but something is still wrong.
  • locke2clocke2c Posts: 5,038
    leenelson--

    is that post supposed to read like it's *your* wife and *your* girlfriend?

    sounds kinda first person.

    if so what's up with that???

    -Colin
  • kennynmdkennynmd Posts: 424
    I'm in the market to buy a 2003 325i in steel gray with prem. package, xenon, auto, and leather. MSRP is $35,095.00. I jsut started to internet shop and the best they offered was $33,805.00. What's the best anyones offered for an equivalent package? Also, how are car seats in the back of a 4 door 325i? Is it tight or enough space even with the seat all the way back?
  • div2div2 Posts: 2,580
  • locke2clocke2c Posts: 5,038
    Most people would find it difficult to afford an M3 when your ex-wife has the house, the kids and more than 50% of your paycheck.

    I mean his message title was "jokes" but it wasn't really funny...
    ___

    Kenny:

    It is scary that you can option a 325i that high, but obviously here at edmunds and other places (like autos.msn.com) you have the numbers at your fingertips. I'd guess you can get another grand out of 'em if they've had a bad holiday season and want to score a bit before year's end. If not, find a dealer that does.

    Regarding your rear seat question-- um, have you been in one? Internet price shopping is a tool but doesn't replace getting your hands on and all over a car before buying. But to answer your question, nothing but a small child can fit comfortably in the back with the seat adjusted all the way rearward. It's pretty tight.

    -Colin
  • div2div2 Posts: 2,580
    LOL!!! Well, I dug through some of my back issues of Road & Track; I found a test of the 330i w/Sport Package in the July 2002 issue and a test of the E36 M3 in the 1995 Road & Track Specials issue. Now, I'll be the first to admit that test numbers will never tell the whole story, but I think we can agree that they can be useful when comparing a BMW to a BMW. Here are some test numbers, with the M3 result listed first:

    0-60 6.0 6.1

    0-100 16.0 15.9

    1/4 mi. 14.6 14.7

    60-0 120 ft. 129 ft.

    80-0 217 ft. 230 ft.

    Skidpad .87g .86g

    Slalom 62.8 mph 65.4 mph

    Fuel Econ 24.6 mpg 25.9 mpg

    These two cars are VERY close in overall performance-and that is before you factor in the extra 10 hp, the six speed tranny, lower final drive, and the more aggressive suspension/rolling stock of the 330i Performance Package. Methinks the Performance Package car will show a stock E36 M3 the fast way home. Is the E36 M3 a more entertaining and visceral type drive? Probably; much as the E30 M3 is slower but-IMHO-more beloved then the E36 M3. Of course you can always buy a clean 1995 M3 and really pump up the hp and nail down the suspension for considerably less than $30K. So you pays your money and takes your choice. And-since we're dealing with BMWs-neither choice is a bad one...
  • kominskykominsky Posts: 850
    Does it seem likely that the weight of this car will go up? If for no other reason, the larger tire/wheel combo would likely add a few pounds and possibly the heftier suspension could also add a couple. Wouldn't it be nice if they somehow managed to add all these goodies to the car AND knock a couple hundred pounds off?
  • nobeenobee Posts: 194
    Appears over 2900 vehicles including BMWs, bound for the U.S., are resting in the english channel...a moment of silence please..


    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/134596287_sink15.html


    -nobee

  • yeah, not too funny.

    I will keep the day job.

    HP:
    There certainly is a HP war going on. Cars are becoming awfully quick. I like that as much as everyone else, but it probably isn't that great for society as a whole because of safety and environmental concerns.
    I even wonder how much is enough. I can get to 60 in about 5 seconds, a 330 can do it in 6 seconds. That is pretty quick and after that moment is over you think to yourself -- now what to I do--I am cruising at 60-70mph, do I set the cruise control, or do I repeatedly brake and accelerate just to get a fix (or do I keep going till I hit 120mph).
    I had this conversation with a friend 2 days ago (he has a NOS equipped Corvette) and he thinks you can never have too much. What is the value in decreasing your 100mph to 150mph times? It is fun, but it may not be healthy.
    As HP increases exponentially we asymptotically approach the 3 second mark for 0-60mph. Does a car that goes 0-60mph in 3.2 seconds really feel that much different from one that does it in 4.5 seconds? -- At legal speeds, both vehicles probably create similar sensations for the driver. It is at the illegal speeds that the two cars will begin to diverge.

    Don't get me wrong--I am not trying to blaspheme the McClaren F1. The trend towards outrageously fast mass production cars comes with a high price tag--it may not be one that we are willing to pay. I would not be surprised at all to see HP limitations in the future.

    I the meantime I will continue to drive the most powerful naturally aspirated 3.2liter engine on the planet.
  • seivwrigseivwrig Posts: 388
    Lamborghini has already created a jeep like vehicle. People tend to forget that Lambo creates tractors and farm equipment. Ferrari on the other hand is a race outfit first, a producer of cars second. They use the cars and gear to help fund the race outfit.
  • brave1heartbrave1heart Posts: 2,698
    "10 years ago, a 7 sec 0-60 was exotic car territory, nowadays, the econoboxes easily match this, so the monster trucks."

    I can't think of any econoboxes or monster trucks that do 0-60 in 7 sec flat. Any examples? I still think that 7 sec flat is very respectable and faster than a good 95-98% of the cars out there in the real world (by the number of cars, not number of models that can do it).
  • brave1heartbrave1heart Posts: 2,698
    The McLaren F1 gains 10 mph EVERY SECOND - can you imagine that? 100-150 mph in ~ 5 sec. Still not as good as good rollercoaster as far as excitement, though ;o)
  • I just wanted to add that the hp war is entertaining considering the huge increases in power vs price i.e...220-255hp in mainstream cars under $30K, but what is scary to me, cars are faster today, but most drivers are not getting smarter. It scares me each morning and afternoon on the freeway to see so many SUV's swerving in and out of traffic traveling between 70-80 plus miles per hour.
    I've noticed that most drivers that own decent to real nice cars (BMW's,Infiniti,Vette,Benz,Lexus..etc) tend to drive closer to the speed limit, more cautious, and rarely seen as major victims in car ascendents. Most of the cars that drive recklessly on the freeway or at excessive speeds tend to be the SUV drivers,trucks,beat up old cars, and econoboxes. Maybe I'm wrong, but it's just my observation.

    This week I had to drop off my M3 for service. As I walked in, I noticed a wreaker backing up into the service area with a new 7 series on the back. The front end was completly smashed. I asked my little buddy in the service dept what happend to the new 7. He told me that the driver ran off the road trying to make a simple adjustment using the I-drive system. Next thing he knew, he ran off the road not paying attention. The owner only had 3,000 miles on it. We both agreed that we hope BMW does not try to implement the I-drive system on other BMW's in the future.
  • P.S.
    Wanted to update the room that my sister and I will travel to Germany in Jan to pick up her 540i sport. We're looking forward to it. I've heard the weather in Germany has been above avg in temp this fall/winter. Anyone have any tips, ideas concering the trip there? Would love to hear.
  • div2div2 Posts: 2,580
    "I can't think of any econoboxes or monster trucks that do 0-60 in 7 sec flat. Any examples?"

    Well, the V6 Altima is a bordeline econobox. The SVT Focus and the upcoming Neon SRT are 7 sec and under cars. As for trucks, the SVT Lightning and soon to come Ram SRT are under 7 sec trucks. Heck, I went to college in the mid-late seventies and the fastest domestic cars were the Corvette and Trans AM-and you had to really flog them to get them into the sixes. The holy grail of acceleration was the Turbo Carrera, which did 0-60 in the fives. And the fastest US spec BMW? The E12 530i- which did it in the low eights...
  • but what is scary to me, cars are faster today, but most drivers are not getting smarter.

    Too true. Some people on the Mazda6 thread are calling 220hp too little, citing more power as a safety feature when merging. Rediculous. It's only there for thrills or weaving like an jerk.
  • seivwrigseivwrig Posts: 388
    I guess we should be glad that the Focus RS or Nissan Skyline is not sold in the U.S. As well as the slew of British track cars like the Ariel Atom, Caterham 7, Westfield Megabusa and Lotus Elise Exige. What the track cars lack in HP, is made up in exceleration and handling. Europe has a love affair with the speedy, 4 banger econoboxes. Life is definitely going to be different once the Suburu Impreza WRX STi and Mitsubshi Lancer Evo VII shows up on our shores. People say they will not pay $30 for a compact size BMW, but at least it has refinement. More than I can say for the new Mitsu and WRX. I cannot see paying $30K for a street ready rally car.
  • getz2getz2 Posts: 7
    I'm ecstatic about the boost in horsepower, and hopefully bmw will up the ante in the next iteration of the 3-series. Yeah, refinement is great, but getting blown away in the straights by an altima is not a reassuring feeling, especially when you forked out considerably more cash for the 2.5l pushing around the 323/325i. I traded in my 323i for a new maxima with the 6-speed, and that thing flys in a straight line (hits 60 in six seconds flat, 1/4 mile in 14.6 per C&D).

    I am very excited for the next run of the 3er, and have no doubts that BMW will more than outmatch the straight line hustle that the japanese manufacturers are providing. A turbo inline six would be pretty sweet.

    -Getz
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    How is the handling of tne Maxima compared to the 3 series. It's not even in the same league. Straightline acceleration is one thing, but it is not a precise driving instrument. (At least that was my impression when I test drove it, the Maxima that is). Which car can you have more fun with? Tossing the Maxima around the road at 60 is going to be a bit different than tossing the 325 around the road at 60. Two completely different cars.

    I say bring on the Lancer EVO, according to the review, if you want to blow everything away, but dont care about accutrements that's the car for you. It's not the car for me however. BMWs mission is to produce an all-around top notch drivers car. The mission of the Lancer is a top-notch handler without the sophistication of the BMW. Add that sophistication in and you now have a car that will sell for much more.

    The boost in HP and the trend toward bigger engines is disturbing overall. We need to come go grips with pollution and oil as an energy source.
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