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Comments
How about a car off their lot? Should I expect to pay it then?
Can anyone tell me which dealer is giving a good deal? How much below or above invoice price?
Thanks, Charlie
Is this a good price. I see that there are others in southern california who seem to have done better than this. But I live in Atlanta, GA and this is the best that I have been able to get so far. Is there anyone in the southeast who have gotten a better deal. Let me know ASAP as I have to decide tomorrow. The van just arrived at the dealership today.
Thanks,
I am about to buy the XLE limited with the HO package ( Navigation + DVD Entertainment ) + carpet floor mats. The price I got was $37200 + $599 + 20 + 6% Tax.
Is this a good price.
My reply:
It's very high, IMO. Lets look at how I would structure an offer using Edmunds' pricing information:
MSRP
$34,480 base price (XLE Limited)
3,630 HO
196 CF
540 destination (to my area)
$38,846 total
Edmunds'invoice
$30,685 base price
3,018 HO
119 CF
540 destination
$34,362 total invoice
You need to substitute the destination charge for your ZIP code. Now,
3% x (Edmunds' invoice - $540) = $1015
4% x (Edmunds' invoice - $540) = $1353
Max offer (your goal should be to buy at less than this price):
$34,362 + $1,353 = $35,715 (Edmund's invoice + 4%)
(Use 3% if you want - your decision.) Plus sales tax, license, and documentation fees for your locality.
Note that I work from invoice, NOT MSRP. Your salesman will, too, if you do.
Your don't say what the $599 the dealer wants is for, but note that I don't include it or any other fees in my max offer computation; 3-4% above Edmunds' is a reasonable offer, even on a vehicle that's selling well (my opinion) and should be high enough that your saleman doesn't try to work you over miscellaneous costs, like a regional advertising fee.
If your salesman (or his sales manager) won't budge, increase your offer slightly, say $100, but only once. It doesn't hurt to remind him - regardless of how far apart you really are - that you are so far apart in price it seems pointless to continue and you don't intend to waste his time or yours with offers and counteroffers.
If he says he could sell the vehicle for more than your offer (very probably true), remind him that you are making an offer now. "If you don't sell it to me today, will you be the salesman who sells it tomorrow?"
If he says "Let's split the difference", refuse. He will in all likelihood sell the vehicle to you at your price.
You should be treated well. If you aren't, I suggest you take your business elsewhere.
Buying a vehicle can be fun. The pressure is really on the salesman. Good luck and keep us informed how you do.
My recommendation: Take the Edmund's invoice price for the package you want, add $1,000, and make an offer at Red McCombs in San Antonio via their website. They gave me a good price with little hassle. They will match it to the regional allocation, and you can take delivery in a few weeks. I didn't finish the deal with them, because I'm buying from Champion in CC at about the same price.
Let me give you a brief background...
I started off by asking for 3% over invoice to the dealers in my area and rather than me walking out, the dealers pretty much walked out and stopped even calling me. I guess, the Toyota dealers have become arrogant because the sienna is selling so well now. Most of the dealers around Atlanta area are now quoting a maximum of $200~$700 less than MSRP for the XLE Limited.
The only reason, I am able to get ~$1600 less than MSRP is because I am buying it thru a wholesale program relationship that my employer has with Toyota. There is only one Toyota dealer in the Atlanta area who is part of this program and their wholesale sales person was able to give me the $1600 less than MSRP price.
Before I was aware of this special program that my employer has with Toyota, I had gone to the same dealership and spoken to a sales guy and they were willing to give only $500 less than MSRP. I even tried to go thru a Auto Broker and he was also able to get only $300 less than MSRP.
Lastly, the destination charge of $575 is already included in the $37200 -- price. The additional $599 is the documentation/admin fees that this dealership charges ( pretty common for all toyota dealers that I have dealt with in Atlanta area -- some may charge a little less but generally in the same ballpark ) and I was told that that is standard and non-negotiable.
Thanks..
Motorworld of Wilkes-Barre did an awesome job of installing a 7" Eigervision monitor where the rear-audio sits. And they put a BOSS dvd player in the flip-down box below the dash. The install, I must say, looks as if was done at the factory. They even installed a port for the kids GameCube.
The Eigervision screen has a TV receiver and infrared port, so our three kids could watch their dvds -- with their headphones on while we listen to Albert King up front. The Eigervision monitor has a 3-yr warranty, and the quality is really good. It's a TFT LCD monitor, allowing excellent picture anywhere you sit. The Toyota installed monitor, I'm told, is not TFT.
I would highly recommend a good aftermarket install if you can't get a Sienna with a factory installed DVD system. It's one of the nicest things about our neat new van.
: )
Mackabee
I started off by asking for 3% over invoice to the dealers in my area and rather than me walking out, the dealers pretty much walked out and stopped even calling me. I guess, the Toyota dealers have become arrogant because the sienna is selling so well now. Most of the dealers around Atlanta area are now quoting a maximum of $200~$700 less than MSRP for the XLE Limited.
My response: Sorry to hear it. If it were my purchase, I'd wait until there were more dealer inventory to buy.
The transaction strategy I outlined in #2632 works. Since 1982 I've used it and Edmunds' pricing to buy four new vehicles from different dealers in the San Francisco/San Jose/Sacramento areas - two Volvos, each of which were selling well at the time of my purchase, a Jeep Cherokee (factory order), and now my wife's new LE 7 (see #2623).
I didn't run from one dealer to another and never tried to play one against another in any transaction. Most, but not all, of the dealers I contacted would take such deals and all treated me well.
I'm looking for a good deal in SoCal. Could you please pass on the Fleet Manager's name and location? Thanks
Anduril, in a perfect world your example would work fine. However, this particular vehicle (XLE Limited with the HO package is very rare to find) In my region only 10 a month are allocated to dealers in 5 states. You either have to be very lucky or be at the right time at the right place. We sold one last night at $1000.00 off MSRP as I offered all Siennas in stock for that discount to my internet customers. This vehicle had been reserved for another customer who got tired of waiting and decided to go a different way. Some happy Air Force Sergeant is driving it today.
My response:
And he overpaid. If a vehicle is in that much demand, I'd wait to buy (until the manufacturer's production matched demand better).
The transaction strategy I outlined in #2632 has worked well for me. I've used it in four different vehicle purchases since 1982, including the purchase last weekend of an LE 7 at 2% over dealer invoice (see #2623) - nearly $2100 below MSRP (far better than the $1000 standard discount you offer your internet customers).
That "deal" was not an aberration. That same day I offered it first to another dealer - the one closest to where I live - with a similarly equipped LE. The sales staff tried to work me with offers and counteroffers and TO'd me twice to different sales managers. I walked when I was already strong in my offer at $600 over his invoice price, we were $95 apart, and the second sales manager entered the "negotiations".
That dealer also tried to work me with the four-square system, which I consider unethical.
Within two hours my wife - at home with our two small children - got a phone call from one of the sales managers, who told her I could purchase the vehicle at my final offer if I came back that day. He also asked her for my cell phone number. She refused to give to him and I didn't return his call. I took my business elsewhere.
Steve, Host
: )
Mackabee
Some people have a car on its last legs and can´t walk, so to speak. But if you can wait, walking is often the best thing to do. There´ll be another car in the showroom in a day or so.
My response: Right and thanks!
I've used Edmund's price guides in every new car purchase I've ever made, going back over 20 years. I've generally had an easy time with each - perhaps because I live in a major metropolitan area (San Francisco/San Jose) where competition is keen - even when the vehicles I wanted to buy were selling well and inventory on dealers' lots seemed tight. Clean and simple transactions, no rounds of back-and-forth offers and counteroffers.
Kudos also to your "Confessions of a Car Salesman" on the Tips & Advice page at this Web site. Informative and fun reading.
If so, what is the correct invoice price? I am specifically interested in the Toyota XLE Limited.
One dealer also told me that the invoice price is typically $600 to $1000 more in the southeast based on the vehicles. For eg: on the Toyota Camry's the invoice price may be $600 more than edmunds price and on the popular Sienna's the invoice price would be closer to $800-$1000 more than the edmunds invoice price. Is that true?
I got a fantastic deal from Dry Ridge Toyota (in Northern Kentucky -- about 25 minutes south of downtown Cincinnati) on a FWD XLE with Package #14, mats and sill protectors, AND a 7" Rosen Clearvue II DVD all-in-one system with an input plate for RCA connection plus a 115V outlet. The sale price was $32,600....It is exactly what we wanted.....took about 3.5 weeks....I have bought many cars in the past, but this was by far my best experience....By the way, on Wednesday when I picked up the vehicle, they had about six Sienna's in stock and ready for delivery -- a few of each trim model if I remember right -- I would be someone could get a incredible deal on one of those vans.
My response:
I bet someone could, too, and congratulations!! Edmund's invoice on a comparably-equipped XLE with factory-installed DVD (pkg #16) to my area (San Francisco/Sacramento) is $31,083. Using that as a comparison, I estimate you paid about 5% over Edmund's invoice.
Not bad, not bad at all, and about $2600 below MSRP for an XLE with pkg #16.
Yes, you really can get a good deal on a vehicle that's selling well (exactly my point in #2623 and #2632).
Signed a thanksgiving deal for this vehical - XLE Limited AWD with HO (DVD+NAV) for $36924 that also includes $540 destination charge. My total price is
$36924 + $125 (doc) = $37049
alomost $4000 below MSRP.
Got a deal from a dealer in NH who was holding a 4 hr thanksgiving sale and selling Siennas at invoice prices.
I noticed their invoice for XLE lmt AWD is almost $700 more than Edmundss price, which he told me it was because it has extras included such as 2 wireless headphone, wheel locks, etc.
Is this true? But I think I got a good deal and my friend bought a LE for almost $2500 below MSRP.
I now have to wait for 10 weeks, and I have some concerns over delivery date. Is this deal too good to be true?
Signed a thanksgiving deal for this vehical - XLE Limited AWD with HO (DVD+NAV) for $36924 that also includes $540 destination charge. My total price is
$36924 + $125 (doc) = $37049
alomost $4000 below MSRP.
...I noticed their invoice for XLE lmt AWD is almost $700 more than Edmundss price....
...I think I got a good deal and my friend bought a LE for almost $2500 below MSRP.
...Is this deal too good to be true?
My response:
I also compute the selling price as $700 (less than 2%) over Edmunds' invoice. That's excellent!! And no NH sales tax?? Wow!! Why do I live in CA!
Your friend probably did very well, too (a few percent over invoice).
In any event, perhaps enough of us in different parts of the US have gotten sufficiently good concessions on Sienna prices that Edmunds should revise its TMV prices on these vehicles. TMV = MSRP is VERY misleading.
How about it, steve_HOST?
Here is what I was offered:
For an LE8 with pckg #1 and floormats (mudguards thrown in at one dealer as already prepped that way)
PRICES INCLUDED ALL FEES EXCEPT TAX and TAG
Stewart Toyota (North Palm Beach) - $24775 - Awesome Internet Sales - Bought here and would again. Agreed to price via email, p-up and pay in 1 hr, and no surprises. Bought my Sienna here from LW as it was in stock.
Gettel Toyota (Bradenton) - $25,092 - Clear communication via the web; price included delivery to my door (200 miles away); could have picked up and saved $100. Order needed; not in stock. Others in this forum have bought here with positive reports.
Maroone Toyota (W. Ft. Lauderdale)- $24,745 - Best response time and very straight forward and best Internet pricing. Would have bought from JR here but only had model in stock w/ more options than I wanted. Would have had to order and wait 2 weeks. Would have included lojack (tracks stolen cars) for $150 which retails for $600.
Toyota of Orlando - $24,900 - Big dealership; volume; recommended once on this forum. They had my model/color in stock (Internet sales group), but only had it with Toyogaurd. Quoted $24,400 until I asked if that was all fees. Then they said, must add $500 fee for I don't know or even care what for a total of $24,900. I would have driven 2 1/2hrs to get it from them if they could have come down to compensate for the unnecessary Toyogaurd, but that was their best price.
These were the four dealerships who were the most competitive and/or respectable in Toyota car sales in our SE Florida region that I found. Every one of these dealerships came down in price between $100 and $500 in price from their first quote. I followed up the first quote to my assigned Internet sales person with details call or email of recent pricing of members of this forum with similar outfitted models to get the further reductions.
Oh yeah...WE LOVE THE VAN !!!
; )
Mackabee
Thanks in advance..
The van doesn't have the DVD we want, but we will put that in after we close this deal (at cost, out of pocket).
I was feeling good about it, but after reading some of the deals here...I'm having serious doubts.
BTW - what's up with the $220 charge for the "special" arctic frost paint?? I asked at three dealerships and no one gave me a good answer.
Thanks in advance.
: )
Mackabee
I assume they are probably quoting you the price for an LE7 with the AM package (package 1) and floormats -- this seems to be the lowest priced LE that is commonly available. MSRP for this model/package (including the destination charge) is $25,806. Note that the AM package is relatively low frills (trip computer/homelink/rear seat audio).
So, if this the model we are talking about, your quote is about $1,000 under MSRP. Not bad, but not the lowest folks have quoted on this board. I was able to buy that model for $1,500+ under MSRP here in the Boston area.
-Chris
Looking to see what current wait list is for a Sienna LE. Are certain models/options more readily available than others?
I have a lease that ends in March, so want to potentially plan for placing an order if wait list is long.
Thanks
Rick
...We have decided to go for it and buy hopefully a Sienna. Reading all the posts the past few months I have found the availability in NY/Nj to be sparse. I know Fitzmall has LE7's for 24,745 and LE 8's for 25,777 (plus taxes and tags). Are these reasonable prices?
My response:
Please reread my post #2632 on how to structure an offer for a new vehicle. You should be able to buy what you want - even something with limited dealer inventory and selling well - for only a few percent above Edmund's invoice (not including sales tax, license, and documentation fees). I was able to (post #2623).
When you work from invoice (as you always should, rather than MSRP), you may need to reconcile some charges on the dealer's invoice that Edmunds' pricing does not account for, like an advertising fee. Here's what Edmunds says about these charges (in Step 8 of "10 Steps to Buying a New Car" on the Tips and Advice page at this Web site):
"In some areas of the country, dealers have costs that don't show up on Edmunds.com invoice prices. This means the Edmunds.com invoice price of the car you are researching might not exactly match the dealer's invoice. Don't panic — and don't begin making accusations. Edmunds.com can't track all regional fees, such as advertising costs. So, as a rule of thumb, consider the charges on the dealer's invoice to be nonnegotiable. However, if extra fees are written into the contract (such as "D&H" or "Administrative Costs") which seem bogus or redundant, ask to have them removed, or say you will take your business to another dealership."
I ordered the XLE in Arctic Frost Pearl/Fawn Leather with option package 16, wheel locks, floor mats and auto-dimming mirror. MSRP for this configuration is $36,019 (including special color $220, mats $196, wheel locks $59, auto-dimming mirror $199), and my purchase price was $33,086. Total price will add in VA tax (3%; $998.22), Dealer’s business License Tax (.017% or $56.25), tag fee ($54.50), and the dealer processing fee of $188.
I normally negotiate the dealer processing fee out, but got the dealer to add in the auto-dimming mirror with installation and let the proc fee stand. This was a fair compromise for me, especially since this dealer’s previous offer was $1900 above our final agreed amount, and I am getting the exact vehicle I (and my wife) wanted with no compromises.
Invoice on this set-up is approximately $31,400 (figuring ~ $30 for the wheel locks). Adding the purchase price and doc fee together, I figure that I paid 6% over invoice ($1874), and $2745 below MSRP.
I wasn’t looking to fight down to the last dime, but was firm on a couple points in arriving at a deal that the dealer and I could both walk away from satisfied. I lost the opportunity to get the same vehicle in Blue Mirage (our second choice color) a few days before from another dealer when we couldn’t iron out the auto-dimming mirror add-in, and I thought I’d missed an opportunity over a “lousy” $200. It all worked out in the end as we ended up with the vehicle we wanted at a price we felt comfortable with. I haven’t worked that much over invoice in the past, but I’ve never tried to get such an in-demand vehicle.
Our Sienna is scheduled to be built next week and delivered either Christmas week or the week after. A little schedule slide would be acceptable now that the major hassle is over.
One extra benefit is that the dealer that came through with this deal is 2 miles from our home, so we can take advantage of the “Dealer Appreciation Plan” which includes:
“Six-Lube, Oil and Filter Change services for $8.95 each, $15 Parts Center Gift Certificate, Two-Free VA State Inspections to use anytime, Four-Overnight Rental cars for $9.95 each to use anytime, Two-Free Rental Cars for major services, Two-"$50 Off" coupons for your 30,000 and 60,000 mile services, Plus, on your next vehicle purchase, make your very best deal and after the paper work is completed, present the Vehicle Discount Coupon and receive $200, Plus, on your next vehicle purchase, make your very best deal and after the paper work is completed, present the Trade-In Coupon and receive $200 more for your trade, Plus, on your next vehicle purchase, receive a $200 Discount on any Vehicle Service Agreement, and Five Coupons for 15% off any Over-The-Counter-Parts purchase.”
Lynch Toyota in Manchester was pretty arrogant on pricing in July (pre-recall) when I spoke with them. Basically MSRP, _maybe_ we can get you a few hundred off MSRP....
Hartford Toyota I didn't deal with much on pricing, but they seemed more willing to deal. Just as I was getting ready to start working on them, another dealer (Toyota of Norwich) accepted my offer (850 over invoice). Don't know the availability there.
I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. If you are very particular (colors, packages), you probably will be better off ordering ahead. Just negotiate with every dealer in a reasonable radius (fax/email your offer). Don't expect anything radical, they're not desperate... But you can certainly pay less than MSRP (though I don't doubt that some will try to convince you to pay MSRP). Also look across state borders. Some Mass. dealers were also VERY willing to deal, I just dropped the conversations relatively early.
Hartford Toyota - have many Sienna's in stock, mostly LE's. Willing to negotiate under MSRP, just not sure how much. Their website's inventory is kept up to date.
Middletown Toyota - have many Sienna's in stock, mostly CE & LE. Still asking MSRP, however, many of the CE's & LE's have been on their lot a while so may be able to negotiate.
Stephen's Toyota (Bristol, CT) - have limited Sienna's in stock. Will give you their low internet price which is about 600 - 750 below MSRP.
Lynch Toyota (Manchester, CT) - seem to have LE's and CE's in stock. Still firm on MSRP.
Gale Toyota (Enfield, CT) - not many in stock. Won't deal on the in stock vehicles, but were willing to negotiate on ordered vehicles with a wait of 6 - 8 weeks. Never found out how much they would discount as I wasn't willing to wait 6 - 8 weeks.
Toyota of Wallingford - not many in stock. Firm on MSRP and above (I would stay clear of this dealer...dealer said I was luck they would only charge me MSRP and not the market premium)
Toyota of Colchester - not many in stock. Willing to negotiate on ordered vehicles, but not sure how much. Again, I didn't want to wait 6 - 8 weeks.
Toyota North (Mt. Kisco, NY) - not many Sienna's in stock...Tell you over the phone to come in and they will deal, however, when you get there, it is strictly MSRP.
Motorworld (Wilkes-Barre, PA) - not many Sienna's in stock because of the business sent to them via this message board. Were offering $1,500 off MSRP, but may be less now. Very nice people at this dealership, just too far away for me.
Hope this information is helpful.
All-in-One DVD System with Inverter
Nightvision Mirror Upgrade
Running Boards
Rear Mudguards
Carpet Mat Set w/Door Still Protectors.
Paid $29,300.00 total (does not include tax, title, registration) the price we paid is $1,600.00 over the *dealers* invoice amount.
What are your thoughts?
Rick
The Dealership with the $26,900 quote is Sport City Toyota in Dallas. Other Dealers will not go under $28,000 for this vehicle.
Has anyone had a dealer treat them like the other dealers are warning of?
Should I be worried about this possibility or are the other dealers trying to use scare tactics to win my business?
Your input would be appreciated
"I have recieve a quote for an XLE Package #1(CP) for $26,900. Other Dealers are saying this deal is to good to be true and are warning of a bait and switch game or unexpected add on fees when it comes time to make the deal.
The Dealership with the $26,900 quote is Sport City Toyota in Dallas. Other Dealers will not go under $28,000 for this vehicle.
Has anyone had a dealer treat them like the other dealers are warning of?
Should I be worried about this possibility or are the other dealers trying to use scare tactics to win my business?
Your input would be appreciated "
My response:
I compute Edmunds' invoice price, including a $540 destination charge, as $26,390 (XLE7, FWD, pkg#1), so the dealer's offer to sell the vehicle to you at $510, or approx. 1.9% above that price, is excellent (for you), in my opinion...and certainly not out of the question.
I paid $500 over dealer's invoice (which included some non-negotiable charges above Edmunds' invoice pricing) on an LE a week and a half ago in Sacramento. See my post #2623 for details. Yes, you should be wary of additional charges the dealership might attempt to add into the transaction once you are back in the showroom. Some, like an advertising fee, might be and your salesman might not budge on them. In fact, he may not be able to. I'm not certain what I'd do in that case, although I'd definitely be very annoyed.
Also, be certain that the vehicle is truly brand new (i.e., is not a rollback or demo), and has no damage.
And be wary of add-on charges put into the contract AFTER you have an agreed-on price. See my post #2668.
Re bait and switch, you can always walk - and probably should - if your salesman tries it.
Good luck and let us know how you do...could be a fantastic deal if it's the vehicle you want!!
P.S. I would consider a selling price of $28,000 to be excessive. That's more than 6% over Edmund's invoice. Ugh. Generally I expect to pay less, and perhaps much less, than 4% over invoice for a new vehicle, even one selling well and in limited supply. Some dealerships will not take such deals, but a surprising number will when you make a firm offer and stand your ground on price. If you need to, simply say you believe your offer is fair and reasonable, it leaves no money on the table, and you have no intention of going back and forth with offers and counteroffers. Doing so makes the transaction a simple one for you and your salesman.