BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

jdbtensai · March 2003

how can one tell the difference between the leather and leatherette? visually? feel? is there a tag somewhere?
tia.

ultrarunner · March 2003

Everyone that has seen my car thinks the leatherette is leather.

bimmer3i · March 2003

I owned a 2003 330i with sport package and I read from the manual of different tire pressure settings (depending on the number of passengers and cargo/luggage). Almost once a week, I'm carrying 2 or 3 additional passengers.

Could you please tell me which is the best setting (psi) for front and rear tires?

Thanks.

Ron

vkwheels · March 2003

The dufuss at the car wash actually started arguing with me that my seats were leather (and therefore I should opt for their special leather treatment deal).

Just compare them side by side in the dealership, I'm sure there are appreciable differences despite it all.

jschmoe3 · March 2003

hail to "BLUEBEAST'.Must have been tired.Sorry about the 'Bluebeard' mistake.All the best,jschmoe.

imadrone · March 2003

Ordered a 2003 325iT last year for ED this April, but dealer graciously allowed us to defer order due to work conflict. Since we will be instead taking delivery of a 2004 in October, (steel blue, gray leather, SP, HK, PS), am wondering if the new standard 6-speed for the 330i might be available as an option for the 325iT. I would be happy to spend an additional $600-$900 to have an overdrive gear in the wagon. Any information or advice is much appreciated.

Many thanks, Richard

mfeldman · March 2003

I have a 330 with retrofit steering that was very heavy on center. WHen I got new tires, I got the alignment checked by an independent shop. They said that the tow in was heavy so they decreased it.

I think this has made the steering a little less heavy off center. But now after a couple months, it also seems that there is more "play" in the steering. With a slight turn from center, it does not immediately respond in the way I think it used to (or like a 2002 that I recently drove does).

Could the tow be affecting it? Will increasing the tow in Make the steering sharper and eliminate the play. Or could it be something else?

Thanks

shipo · March 2003

In the past I have had problems with even the most reputable tire shops performing an alignment on my cars, and yes, the amount of toe will affect the On-Center feel of the car. I would take it to you dealership and pay them for a factory spec alignment. They will also tell you if something else is wrong.

Good Luck.

Best Regards,
Shipo

mfeldman · March 2003

I hope your mending well.

I didn't have the tire shop do the alignment. It was an independent alignment shop. Unlike the dealer they measure things in inches and use gauges, rather than some computer setup. At first i liked the lighter tow because the car seemed to have easer turn in on 90 degree corners. It was only later and after driving another car that i sensed that there we more slack in the wheel than before. So the tow really does affect the amount of play and "linearity" of the steering?

BTW the 2002 that I drove seemed to have heavier steering than one I had driven a while back. It lends credence to the theory that there really is a lot of steering variance from car to car.

seivwrig · March 2003

During the car control clinic, I kind of envied you E46 M3 drivers. The music that come from those cars are absolutely amazing. I hate to say it the M3 music sounded better than that Ferrari 360 Modena (that driver had no skill at all). Also, the guy that was parked between us at the beginning of the day in the E46 Dinan 3 coupe, could really haul.
Seems like you can drive better than you figure or you learn very fast. I think the auto-x are always on Sunday, so that means that I will probably never get a chance to participate. I would like to go to the High Speed School at Texas World Speedway during Oktoberfest. I guess I will have to keep up with Oktoberfest since it will be in Austin, TX this year.

locke2c · March 2003

mfeldman,

not sure what to make of the play you're perceiving in the steering... check your tire pressure, perhaps?

but certainly, increased toe-in does make the steering heavier. it also returns to center a bit faster.

-Colin

dave330i · March 2003

I have a similar problem on mine as well, but in my case it was noticeable after the retrofit (steering was heavier, but some play at center). I had them check the play after the retrofit, and they came back with everything is within spec.

I'm due for 30k maintaince soon. I think I'll have them look at it again.

dave330i · March 2003

Since you have SP, I assume you have 225/45 ZR17 (front)/ 245/40 ZR17 (rear). The recommended pressure with normal load (4 people) is 30/35 (front/rear), and high load (5 people + luggage) is 35/42 (front/rear). How ever, many on this board play with their setting to suit their personal taste. I have mine set at 32/35 for example.

wayde · March 2003

Hey 3-series owners/fans - I've got a question for ya:

I've always loved BMW's... specifically the coupe. There is a used 2002 325Ci that my local non-BMW dealership just got in (bought at a BMW auction in CA... I'm in MN) that is mint. Black, dark tan leather interior, 5speed, Sport, Premium , SR, heated pkg, xenons, HK, 11,000miles.
30,900$ - seems to check out with Edmunds TMV.

1) Thoughts on the price?

2) Reliability/quality issues? (this is my biggest/only concern to be honest - I'm "used" to having Japanese brands) I called the dealer here and they ran the VIN - no warranty work has been done, including the first service. He said the 1st service was at 15k or 1 year, whichever comes first - and the in service date is 5/8/02.
--anything to "look" for?
--what are possible long term trouble spots, if any? any large maintenance items?

The car is sweet guys... just don't want to make a totally irrational decision.

Thanks!

leenelsonmd · March 2003

locke: Thanks -- I was surprised by the results. I had 5 runs through the course. I DNF the first and the next 2 runs I noticed I was clutching and braking at the turns even though I never shifted from second gear--sortof embarassing, but I was just so accustomed to shifting that when I hit a turn I would clutch it even without a shift. My last two runs I finally took my left foot out of the action and drove much better.

One thing I would say -- the autox certainly puts alot of wear on the tires -- this amazes me.

I am still running on about 38 front and 40 in the rear.

seivwrig: Yeah, the sunday thing is bad for me too. I was actually able to get my wife to skip church this week and come out to see me make a couple of runs -- it was well worth it IMO. Stick to your convictions.

brave1heart · March 2003

Lee - that's a great start! My first day at the autoX, I was barely able to find my way through the cones and I spun 180 degrees coming out of a fast sweeper in third gear ~ 65-70 mph. That was a sobering experience ;o)

seiv - there is no way the E46 M3 would sound better than the 360 Modena. The sound at WOT has metallic overtones that do nothing for me...

Going back to summer tires tomorrow. I am excited about it. I got a small forward-pointing wire brush that I'll use with the electric drill ot get rid of the dust over the hubs and and Permatex anti-seize compound (thanks, div2)

Every time I see one of the face-lifted E46 3-series (MY '02 and later models I guess?), I cringe - I am sorry but they almost spoiled the beautiful looks of the car. The grill is humongous and from a distance, it resembles an Oldsmobile an awful lot and the headlights take away from the sharpness of the pre-MY'02 and the E36.

locke2c · March 2003

regarding tire wear, it's impossible to say without seeing you in action... but it might be that you're overdriving the tires a bit. it takes a while to get into the groove and slide the tires just enough. you were probably doing more right than wrong if you won though!

usually braking late accompanies overdriving.

but even when you stay within the tire's proper slip angle-- yeah, they do get chewed up a bit faster than regular driving. the shoulders might look a little mangled after the first time, but if you have enough air pressure and don't overdrive, most summer tires will survive just fine.

-Colin

div2 · March 2003

You should have seen the front tires on the Pathfinder after my wife took it out on the wet skidpad at a Bluegrass Chapter Safety School. There was major league tread chunking. Of course, it didn't help that her coach was a crazy friend of mine who kept yelling "Faster! Faster!".

mithiral67 · March 2003

Does anyone know if the 2004 330i will have the new adaptive headlights. Also, does anyone know how much lower the performance package drops the 330i. Thanks

bimmer3i · March 2003

Thanks dave330i.
I guess the 35/42 (max) set-up will give you a (little more) bumpy ride but could increase the gas mileage and vice-versa for the 30/35 (min) set-up (softer ride with a lesser gas mileage).
So, I could play within those range depending in my preferences as long as the rear tire pressure is greater than the front.
Appreciate your input.
Thanks again.

mithiral67 · March 2003

Does anyone know if the 2004 330i will have the new adaptive headlights. Also, does anyone know how much lower the performance package drops the 330i. Thanks

ryoken · March 2003

Wow. Tucker invents this in 1950, and it's finally starting to make it's way into mainstream use.

kdshapiro · March 2003

There are many inventions that have taken literal decades to get into mainstream use. Color television is just one example. A technology that was invented in the 20s and took until the 60s to really be widely adopted. The first commercial color broadcast was Gunga Din in 1939. Fax technology is another example, invented in the 1920s.

denk · March 2003

I still have some Tucker Corp. stock certificates that were my father's.

seivwrig · March 2003

The Ferrari 360 liked great until I saw the trendy guy driving the car. I watched him on the skidpad and the slalom. Now given, you go to the car control clinic to learn but this guy was running over more cones than me. Also, his learning curve was bad too. By my fourth run through the slalom, I killed no cones and came thru the corner screaming (tires screaming) to the emergency stop. Ferrari was definitely beautiful but I just felt that the guys skills were lacking. But then again, If I was driving his car, I might have looked sorry too.

I prefer the engine sounds on the Tessarossa and 348 GTS.

After the car control clinic, I think that Z3s, Miata and Minis would make perfect auto-x cars.

memphis10 · March 2003

I'm in the market for a 325i sedan with manual transmission. I was expecting to catch a deal on the 2003 model but realized that from MY 2004 all manual trannies will be 6 speed. Can people who have driven both 330 5 speed and 6 speed comment on the pros and cons. I don't want to feel the same way as I felt about 4 speeds when 5 speeds were introduced. Also when can we expect to see MY 2004 325i and will they have the 6 speed manual. Also, any idea when they will introduce the SMG on the 325i sedan (I must be dreaming but ...)

shipo · March 2003

Ummm, maybe I missed it, however, it is my understanding that then only six cylinder cars that get the 6-Speed are the ones with three or more liters of displacement (330xxx, M3 & Z4 3.0), all cars with the 2.5 stay with the 5-Speed.

Am I wrong?

Best Regards,
Shipo

dave330i · March 2003

"Ummm, maybe I missed it, however, it is my understanding that then only six cylinder cars that get the 6-Speed are the ones with three or more liters of displacement"

I believe that's what it said in the Roundel.

robs328i · March 2003

""how can one tell the difference between the leather and leatherette? visually? feel? is there a tag somewhere?""

Smell and comfort! And yes....feel. No....there is no tag.

""Everyone that has seen my car thinks the leatherette is leather""

Hmmm....you can always tell people who have only had cloth interiors!

mg330ci · March 2003

""Everyone that has seen my car thinks the leatherette is leather""

"Hmmm....you can always tell people who have only had cloth interiors! "

Ouch, You are mean!

LOL!

brave1heart · March 2003

It is my understanding too that the 325 will not get the 6-spd. Frankly, it would be overkill for an engine that size.

I put my summer tires back on today. The steering is noticeably heavier and it also offers better feedback. Braking in the dry is also noticeably better and so is handling.

dan_bmw · March 2003

My younger brother and I used to drag race the classics back in the sixties. Being immature for our ages it is still in our blood and last fall I challenged him with my 2001 Acura TL against his BMW 330i (not sure of the year but it has a 225 HP 5 sp man). We were up at our family place in Vermont on a deserted highway with a one mile straight run which eases into a slight curve and then a few hairpins. From a dead stop 0 to seventy my TL beats him by a full car length consistently. He is a great stick driver and chirps those power shifts but the Torqy Acura jumps out too quick to catch up. Starting at a slow roll however, he beats me by about half a car length. Going from point A to point B on a twisty road is a different story. My poor TL (which is no handling slouch) always winds up in his rear view mirror. I can't wait for the summer to run him with my new 330i six speed. Wish I had the ZHP 3:08 rear. Hey guys how much would the dealer charge to swap me out? Anyone know?

Dan

nevcool · March 2003

Hi,

I'm looking at a 2001 330xi Auto. It has the Cold Weather and the Premium Packages, Leather, and Harmon Kardon. It has 56,000 miles, but is in excellent condition inside and out(It does have new 17inch tires. It is going for $25 thousand and I can buy a 4 yr 40 thousand mile extended Warranty for $1275.

I just want to see if this is a good deal? I may jump on it pretty fast.

riez · March 2003

Keep in mind that more and more cars are coming out with 6-speed manuals. Hope BMW takes note that the upcoming Acura TSX, which only has a 2.4L I4 engine, comes standard with a 6-speed manual. You can already get 6-speed manual in Nissan Maxima. And the G35 has 6-speed. Plus the forthcoming Mazda RX8. These cars have price points firmly in 325i territory!

If anything, the smaller 2.5L I6 needs a 6-speed more than the 3.0L I6. The additional gear and changes in spacing intervals can wring the most out of the smaller engine. But guessin' BMW isn't doing it for the E46 325i to hold down costs and to differentiate the lowly 325i from its much more expensive 330i brother.

riez · March 2003

You should read what AutoWeek wrote about the next generation 3 Series. In the 3/17/03 issue. AW claims "it goes into production at the end of 2005." They also state "Transmission choices will include a new standard six-speed manual (with available [SMG] shifting) and an optional 6-speed automatic."

Looks like all next generation USA 3 Series 6-cyl cars will have 6 speeds: both manual and automatic!

5-speeds are dying, just like 4- and 3-speeds before them!

watever · March 2003

I am thoroughly enjoying my new 325 coupe (Manual, moonroof, Xenons, Sport Pkg) I picked up this week. I was wondering if there is anyone out there from the Delaware Valley (Southern NJ, Eastern PA, Delaware) that have a favorite country road where you can wind it out and appreciate that great handling. thanks in advance.

brave1heart · March 2003

<<< But guessin' BMW isn't doing it for the E46 325i to hold down costs and to differentiate the lowly 325i from its much more expensive 330i brother. >>> I think this is the more likely reason.

The 325 manual already has a pretty aggressive gearing. The only advantage of a 6-th gear as I see it would be for fuel economy but considering I can already get 30 mpg on the highway, that's not an issue for me at all. You're probably right that the 5-spd is a dying breed but I would not want a 6-spd in my car just because most competitors' models have it. It's still a marketing gimmick more than anything else.

mschukar · March 2003

Cruising at 75mph on the highway, my 325i runs over 3000 rpm which seems quite high and loud to me. Yeah, I've got good acceleration if I stomp on it, but I would definately prefer a 6 speed to lower the RPM's for the noise alone.

-murray

imadrone · March 2003

I can appreciate the various points of view regarding the 6 speed for the 325, but I for one, would gladly pay a $600-900$ premium for an optional 6 speed on the 325iT. Having an overdrive gear is not to me "gimmicky" at all---especially here in the west with long, straight stretches with minimal traffic. Dropping one's RPM by 15-25% at 70-80 MPH is not only more economical, but certainly practical for engine longevity. So why not simply make it an an extra cost option? I do think, however, that a final drive of .75-.80 would be more advantageous than the present .85.

Richard

riez · March 2003

Properly geared 6-speed should increase acceleration (by having numerically higher first and second gears) and facilitate fuel- and noise-efficient high speed cruising (by having an overdrive 6th gear, numerically lower than the direct drive 5th gear). If I'm going to cruise at 70-90 mph for long periods of time, I'd much rather have an overdrive to reduce engine RPMs, boost fuel economy, and lower engine noise.

This should hold true for 325i as well as 330i, as it already does with the 540i6. Thus it should be a win-win! Too bad BMW is waiting so long for the 325i.

And this is likely one reason why Acura, Infiniti, Mazda, MB, Nissan, etc. are using 6-speeds in this price point and target market. Not to mention that now these marques and models will have a marketing advantage over the 325i.

nyccarguy · March 2003

Well, those of you who subscribe to autoweek read the great article about being the car guy and other who ask for your advice and then do exactly the opposite of what you advise them to do. Here's kind of an opposite senario:

My buddy in SoCal leases a 2001 Range Rover (I know, totally unecessary) is way over his mileage (but he writes it all off anyway) and owns a 1996 Audi A4 2.8. Needless to say, he hasn't driven the Audi in about 2.5 years since leasing his Range Rover. He took the car out for a drive an noticed there was lots wrong with it. He took it to a dealer and they diagnosed more than $3000 to get it running again in perfect condition. He said to himself that he would rather trade the car into a dealer and get something new (the dealer is obviously going to just send the Audi to auction) rather than try to sell it.

His favorite car that he's ever owned was his 1995 E36 325is (5 spd, SP...). He considered a CPO 330Ci, but they sell so ridculously close to original sticker in SOCal. BMWs are somewhat ubiquitous in Orange County, so he was looking for something a little different.

He liked the G35 Coupe (don't worry, I'm not going into the whole G vs. 3 discussion), but wouldn't get one due to the "holier than thou attitude" of the Infiniti dealer who told him they're leasing the cars at MSRP and you have to order one with a $2000 deposit. He told the Infiniti dealer where to stick it.

He then went to his local Honda dealer thinking he would get something just to get him back and forth to work. The EX V6 Accord w/ a 6 speed looked nice and stickers for $28K w/ Navigation. The Honda dealer told him that they are only being allocated 1 per month and the selling price is $4k above MSRP. He walked out laughing.

He asked me what he should do. I told him that he's always complaining that nothing is like his BMW, so why don't you just get another BMW. He had a friend who bought a car at Long Beach BMW with a positive experience and headed there.

He wanted a 330Ci with SP, Leather, Sunroof, & Bi-Xenons. He spoke to the salesman and the salesman told him all about the '04s with the 6 speed and such. My friend needs a car now (due to his dying Audi and high mileage Range Rover) and asked what they had on the lot. He said, they have a 2003 330Ci sitting on the lot that they're willing to part with. The car has a lot more options than he wanted. It is Black with Black Leather, SP, 5 Speed, PP, Xenons, 18" Wheels, Navigation, & CWP After some negotiations, he and the dealer agreed to $1000 over invoice. He's picking up the car on Monday.

Sorry for the long post folks. Everybody's probably out driving anyways. What a gorgeous day outside!

brave1heart · March 2003

<<<Properly geared 6-speed should increase acceleration (by having numerically higher first and second gears) and facilitate fuel- and noise-efficient high speed cruising (by having an overdrive 6th gear, numerically lower than the direct drive 5th gear).>>> All generally true but same goes for a 7-th gear, 8-th gear, etc. Why stop with 6?

mschukar · March 2003

Hmmm, good point. Perhaps a continously variable transmission would be the best bet :-)

I have 18 speeds (2x9) on my road bike and I wouldn't mind more.

-murray

sedanorcoupe · March 2003

That seems like a nice price for an '01 xi. I recently had my eye on an '01 at a local dealership which was priced at about 33K (I live in the Philadelphia suburbs). It did not move and the last time I saw it was marked down to around 30. I believe that it does not have the PP or the Sport by the way, although it does have some goodies (moonroof).

Of course, that car also does not have the mileage on it that the car that you are considering does. I forget the miles but I think that it was in the low 20's.

Here is a recommendation: go out to the bmwusa website and do a vehicle search for 3 series sedans in your region (you can vary the radius of the search around your zip code). That should give you a reasonable idea of the deal that you are being presented with.

I am tempted to say that it is a nice price, but am not expert and you need to do a bit more homework. (The other thing that is interesting is that it seems the dealership is not willing to put it in the 'certified' program; that makes me wonder if there is something in the car's history that scares them off. Perhaps it is simply that the mileage is too high.)

riez · March 2003

brave1heart... Isn't MB working on their 7-speed transmission? Not to mention that Audi and Nissan have their CVTs.

Yes, in most cases, more gears are "better" (i.e., promote efficiency and improve performance). How many times do you hear people moaning the unavailability 3-speed and 4-speed manual transmissions?

This also holds true for automatics. Must be one reason why BMW and others are moving to 6-speed automatics. Don't think anyone wants an old 3-speed automatic. Or ancient GM 2-speed.

sedanorcoupe · March 2003

That seems like a nice price for an '01 xi. I recently had my eye on an '01 at a local dealership which was priced at about 33K (I live in the Philadelphia suburbs). It did not move and the last time I saw it was marked down to around 30. I believe that it does not have the PP or the Sport by the way, although it does have some goodies (moonroof).

Of course, that car also does not have the mileage on it that the car that you are considering does. I forget the miles but I think that it was in the low 20's.

Here is a recommendation: go out to the bmwusa website and do a vehicle search for 3 series sedans in your region (you can vary the radius of the search around your zip code). That should give you a reasonable idea of the deal that you are being presented with.

I am tempted to say that it is a nice price, but am not expert and you need to do a bit more homework. (The other thing that is interesting is that it seems the dealership is not willing to put it in the 'certified' program; that makes me wonder if there is something in the car's history that scares them off. Perhaps it is simply that the mileage is too high.)

shipo · March 2003

"Or ancient GM 2-speed."

Do you mean the old "Slip and Slide Power Glide"? I used to have one of those on my old Chevy Vega. :-/ Needless to say, I have become a little more discerning in my vehicle choices since then. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

pab5 · March 2003

My 2003 Ci convertible with Sport package has 5600 miles and the contis seem to be holding up and showing no wear. Any experiences out there?

leenelsonmd · March 2003

Keep on shredding the tires. You only live once.

seiv: Your assessment of the 360modena was correct. I would watch you in the slalom and then you would come out of the cones and you were driving right on the edge. Your car was screaming and everyone would turn and watch you as you came around the turn and then hit the brakes at the end of it. The Ferrari was a disappointment. He never really let go of it. He was babying the car too much.

He did better at the autocross though. His best time was about 1/2 second faster than my best time. That car was beautiful.

memphis10 · March 2003

Someone mentioned that the 6 speed manual will be only for the 3.0 liter engine or bigger and a 6 speed on a 2.5L will be an overkill. Lots of manufacturers are putting 6 speed manual trannies on their cars even for small engines: Mercedes C230, C240; Nissan Maxima (bigger engine, off course) ; Audi A4. I think that 5 speed will become obsolete by MY 05. Do you still think BMW will offer 5 speed on 325 for MY 04 ?????

BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

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