BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

riez · April 2003

joes230... A key issue with sunroof involves whether or not you trade your car in. Many people will trade their BMW back to a BMW dealer. The dealers in my neck of the woods want cars that they think will sell fast. They want cars with the options they believe likely buyers want. Try trading in a non-sunroof, non-leather, manual tranny 3 Series. You won't get anywhere near what any book says, least not in my parts.

Of course, a used car is only worth what someone will actually pay you for your specific car on a specific day. Too many people wrongly equate trade-in as being the value. Only way to know the "real" value is to sell the car yourself directly to a buyer (you become the retailer). You will nearly almost always get more if you sell your car yourself.

But you'll likely get more if you have the kind of options that are popular in your area or your car is optioned in a way that appeals to a specific target market. For example, the smaller BMW enthusiast crowd might pay a premium for a manual tranny, non-sunroof, non-leather, with Sport Package and Xenons. And if it has some rare color combination. But that person is trying to optimize the car for a specific purpose.

The general buyer likely wants the "goodies" like automatic, Premium Package, leather, sunroof, stereo upgrade, etc. The average BMW dealer is going for the general buyer, not the enthusiast market. The three BMW dealers nearest me nearly always have Premium Pkg, leather, sunroof, metallic paint, and automatic on all the cars on their lots. Everyone else has to special order or attempt an inter-dealer trade.

nyccarguy · April 2003

Reiz: Excellent points on the value of a used car.

Has anybody on the board driven a 330i equipped with the Performance Package & a 330i equipped with SP back to back to give us some sort of insight on it other than BMWs marketing mumbo-jumbo?

bmw323is · April 2003

I think dealers have cars on the lot with all the "goodies" because they make more money on those cars. It seems the car buying public these days like to buy 'em loaded (partially because the dealers like to sell 'em loaded). For instance, I just picked up a brand new Toyota 4runner today with as few options as I could find (about $1,300 worth). Mine truck cost about $15,000 less than a fully loaded one (trucks are famous for non-stop options). The thing is, it's a fantastic vehicle in it's base form, just like a BMW.

brave1heart · April 2003

Automobile mag on the Saab 9-5 Aero

'Ditching the front-wheel-drive is priority number one-there's no point in having even 250 horses if you have to wait until you're in third gear to floor the throttle, lest you lay more rubber than a Trojan factory.'

brave1heart · April 2003

I think you should get a pardon for 'Hardon & Kardon'

)

$1,200-1,500 over invoice would be a great deal. You may be able to get that but it would be very hard, esp. for someone still in college. Go in on the last day of the month - that's when you can sign the best the deal.

brave1heart · April 2003

The manual will give you much better acceleration, better control over the car, more fun to drive, better fuel economy, less expensive, better longevity, fewer ridicules from enthusiasts. Need I say anything else?

brave1heart · April 2003

I don't believe the sunroof has any impact at all on structural rigidity. Split rear seats - more likely but maybe too little to even notice. However, there is nothing like driving at high speed with the roof and all four windows down and your favorite music blasting from the speakers. It's like adding a few other senses to complete the overall driving experience...

walter12 · April 2003

I completely agree with all who are encouraging one to buy what you want, not what you think it will bring in resale value. I am a case in point. Two years ago, I bought a fully loaded 325Ci with Steptronic. I just traded this car in for a 325Xi this past weekend with a manual transmission...and put the smile back in driving.

If I had made a better decision two years ago, I could be driving a fully loaded 330I or more for the amount of money I just exchanged. I'm lucky that I have a supportive wife who puts up with my emotional needs.

By the way, in my neck of the woods, it is very difficult to find a manual transmission 3 series. They all seem to come with Step.

mg330ci · April 2003

I know, this is not a BMW related questions (sorry Pat), but you know what they say "Great minds think the same" so I'm seeking the opinion of the great minds ;-) in this forum, past experiences and some real life data. particularly since most of you guys are also married with kids.

Any of you guys have a motorcycle?

Do you enjoy it?

Am I going crazy thinking about becoming a Cycle-donor?

My wife thinks I have lost it! perhaps she is right. However, motorcycles are such beautiful machines (I particularly like sport bikes!) I can't help admiring them and wondering what would it be like riding one (Weekend drives, stuff like that, perhaps some track days!)

brave1heart · April 2003

I swapped my 325 with a colleague's slammed '99 Honda Accord for a day today. He has plunked ~ 10 grand in mods - Neuspeed shocks, springs, sway bars, strut bar, CAI, lightweight wheels, size 2+ Kumho MX tires, and many more. He has a great web site dedicated to his car that details all the mods he's put in. Anyone who still thinks that a BMW can not be justified under any practical terms after driving both back to back should have themselves checked by a medical professional.

brave1heart · April 2003

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2- - 7154

I don't agree with some of the analysis but it's a good reference point.

joes230 · April 2003

I don't have a bike now but have had several in the past. A modern liter-class sport bike has unimaginable power. You have never experienced anything remotely like it on four wheels. E.g. a Suzuki GSX-1300R can do 0-60 in about 2.6 sec, and the 1/4 mile in about 9.8 sec. The raw power you feel, the acceleration force is just mind-bending.

Beyond accelerating fast, it's also pleasant to ride on roads and distances appropropriate for the type of bike, weather and your equipment. Some bikes are better for cruising, others for long trips, others for "canyon carving".

Of course nobody should start with a super bike but even a mid-range sport bike feels much faster than a car. Start with a modest bike, not a super bike. If you haven't ridden before be sure to take a safety class: http://www.msf-usa.org/

kyfdx · April 2003

Just one point.. The person that started this particular discussion WAS concerned about resale when he sold the car. If he didn't care about that, then obviously, the answer is... don't get the sunroof. It WILL negatively affect the value of the car on resale without it.

regards,
kyfdx

white6 · April 2003

I seem to feel a trend here... buy what you want now and enjoy it! I guess my real question, in terms of the moon roof, is not whether it will decrease trade/resale value (I know it will) but how much (more than the $1,050 price up front?) and whether it will make it a "white elephant," when and if I go to trade/sell. If you can still sell it and it decreases resale value by $1,000 to $1,200, then you haven't really lost anything, financially, since that is how much you saved to begin with (including the additional interest you would pay on that extra $1,050!). The "white elephant" is something I am dealing with now in relation to my "trade." I have a 01 Firebird Formula that I bought new; fortunately, I got a really good deal with all the rebates, etc. $26,000 sticker price; paid $20,800. Thing is, it doesn't have t-tops or leather and it's an automatic. I wanted a hardtop car and it took me a lot of searching to find it. Seems the hot setup with a car like this is the 6-speed manual transmission and t-tops with leather being mentioned by several callers. In fact, the local BMW dealership all but told me they aren't interested in trading at all! Called it an albatross. The car is flawless and only has 7,400 miles on it! So, perhaps I'm being a little over cautious about optioning the bimmer correctly; but at least now you know why.

joes230 · April 2003

I don't see the difference between deleting the moonroof (negatively affects trade-in) and deleting the automatic transmission (also negatively affects trade-in.)

On BMW discussion groups you frequently hear people say "get the manual", "it's not fun without the 5-speed", etc., etc. Yet this negatively affects trade-in. At my dealer they have zero e46s on the lot with manual transmission -- none. Obviously if you trade-in your manual transmission e46, it's an "odd beast" relative to the cars the dealership usually handles.

Despite this many enthusiasts willingly embrace the manual transmission, even with the negative trade-in factor.

The situation seems similar with deleting the moonroof (for those who don't want it). In both cases you save over $1000 at purchase price. In both cases you decline a nice feature that the majority want, but that you for personal reasons don't want. In both cases you take about the same hit at trade-in time.

If +/- $500-1000 at trade-in time is that important, then don't buy the car with the features you want -- ask the dealer what features *he* wants at trade-in and order that. If those options cooincide with what you want, you're fortunate. If not, for the next several years while you drive a car not equipped to your liking, you can console yourself saying "at least I'll get another $500 at trade-in time"

shipo · April 2003

I just noticed that this "3-Series" discussion was on the "Most Active" list, and yet I have not seen any activity in my subscription list. When I checked, I found that my 3-Series and my 5-Series discussions had been deleted. I thought this problem had been cleared up about two years ago. Anyway, I am about 150 messages behind. Sheesh!

Best Regards,
Shipo

dave330i · April 2003

I ended up buying an Acura TL over the weekend (it's not for me), and noticed a few things after driving it for a few days. It's a nice, boring car. A great commuter car. No idea why anyone would cross shop between it and a 3 series. Two totally different cars.

div2 · April 2003

Well, look at it this way: there are some idiots who drive the 3er and TL back-to-back and honestly cannot notice any difference. So they buy the TL. Acura has therefore prevented one moron from purchasing a BMW. Thank you, Honda!!!

Crevels · April 2003

I completely agree. I had a 2000 Acura TL and now have a CPO 2002 330Ci and you are right, the Acura is a great boring car. Two different cars, two different purposes.

pat · April 2003

Shipo, the original cause of that problem has indeed been fixed. If it happens again, drop by the Ask the Town Hall Hosts discussion in News & Views and report it.

Very odd.

jb_shin · April 2003

I had the same problem as Shipo did, with the 3-series and the 5-series board.

seivwrig · April 2003

When I started shopping for a car. The TL-S was on my list but never got to test drive stage. Though loaded, it just seemed boring. I test drove in the following order: M-B C240, Audi A4 1.8T (no 3.0 Quattro was avaiable at the time), BMW 325i, BMW 530i. Never test drove the Volvo S60 5T, Acura TL-S or Infiniti I35. After test driving the BMWs, it seem like a waste of time to test drive anything else. I went out looking for a luxury car but went with fun to drive. The TL, I35 and ES300 are commuter cars, not sport sedans. The major automakers in the entry luxury or sport sedan range have cute commercials, but the goods are not always delivered.

pat · April 2003

jb_shin, shipo, anyone else affected - please go to that discussion I mentioned and give as much detail as you can about when was the last time you had new messages, etc.

ddblue · April 2003

Hello fellow Bimmerites/philes/geeks. It's been a little while since I posted here. I've been stuck on e46fanatics.com for a few months. I wanted to post an update on what's going on w/ my 325Ci.

1) 29,795 miles and each one driven w/ a big smile.
2) At about 25K (2nd oil change) BMW of Sterling, VA found the front brakes to be under spec, so they replaced the rotors and pads under warranty.
3) Upgraded the ECU with Autothority in Fairfax, VA. Added 12-16 HP and 14 lb ft. of torque. VERY noticeable and the car pulls like a 328. Sweet. With my Autothority CAI, I'm just over 200 HP.
4) Purchased 18x8 M-Parallel wheels and Kumho Ectsa MX 235/40YR-18s for the summer. Auto-X here I come!
5)The engine note now is absolutely beautiful. Music to my ears. It has a pronounced growl (not Honda/Acura-like in the least) that is just intoxicating.
6) Engine is smooth and power is consistent throughout the torque band.
7) No major complaints about anything, and I have easily gotten over the lack of storage space.
8) I still shut off the radio to hear the inline six.
9) Using Meguiars Paint cleaner and Klasse All-In-One, coupled with Mother's Quick Detailer has been the magic combo. Son of a Gun and Lexol on the interior--perfect.
10) I'm still in love.

nyccarguy · April 2003

dave330i, did somebody slip something into your drink? LOL! As long as you've still got your 330i!

Brave1heart, The link you gave me came up as it cannot find server.

max63 · April 2003

I helped a girl friend lease a 325 in 2001. Ever since that time the car has been constantly going into the shop (I've had a 330 for two years with no problems). Anyway, the car had been making a weird noise and she brought it in again. They told her the tires were bad and all four would need to be replaced (18k miles) at her own cost. They told her she was responsible for checking the tire pressure even though they gave the car a clean check up two months ago (Including tire pressure). I guess she called the NJ number for customer service and that guy gave her the business. Do anyone know who she could call and do you think she should have to pay for tires? Let me know!

max63 · April 2003

I forgot to mention, they told her the tires over inflated.

sirtiger · April 2003

I was considering buying a TL-S and a few other makes. Though it has a lot of hp, there was a lack of excitement inside & out.

Then I remember driving my uncle's brand new 1992 535i in Hawaii. There is no car like it in terms of sportiness and refinement. I went to visit him last year and his car has 8K miles on it (no place to build high miles on a island & he has many other cars); it is still as great as I remember it 11+ yrs ago! I have to admit, since driving my baby for the last few months, I may be a BMW lifer.

zhangqj · April 2003

Shipo, I was wondering where you have been (not travelling to Taiwan again?). I have the same problem, got dropped out of 3 and 5 series boards. No biggie, just re-subscribed.

I want to add a little to the options/re-sale value discussion. Personally, I would choose Navigation over sun-roof. Currently we have both (TL). I have found that the sunroof has been open on about 5 out of 365 days even in California, whereas the navigation system is used on about 360 out of 365 days. I also use to hate leather back in Jersey (cold in winter burning hot in summer), but not feel too bad now in CA. Still I could care less about leather seat on a used car, price is the most important. Manual transmission does seem to sell less well. Seems old. I once had a conversation with a BMW salesman about manual vs auto. He seemed to blame women, claiming that he had seen "many guys who told me they wanted manual, then as soon as wives showed up, they wimped out. Nowadays, family decisions are made by wives, etc. etc.." :-)

sirtiger · April 2003

I have to admit, I am one of those people. I was leaning on the 5 speed until the wife... now I have the step... sniff sniff....

I think I need to get rid one or two of my toyotas first and get a M5 so I can pass the 5er to my other half..... hmmmm.....

kdshapiro · April 2003

Generally tires are never the auto makers responsibility. Generally with all auto makers warranty claims on tires have to be taken to the tire manufacturer. If in fact the tires are at the end of their life due to over or under inflation there is not much you can do with getting BMW to pay IMO. Even at the point of time the car was taken in and the tires were deemed to be within normal pressure. Even if the tire issue was due to misalignment, I don't think there is much you can do. I suspect your only chance would be to prove a defect in the suspension contributed to the tire wear.

Maybe chalk this up to experience, and keep your next set inflated properly, if that is indeed the issue. Go to one of the discount tire shops or even on-line to tirerack.com for example.

shipo · April 2003

zhangqj,

Nope, not this month anyway, although I did Paris a couple of weeks ago. ;-) It does look like I will be doing Taiwan again in the June/July timeframe, and again sometime around October. Hmmmm, let's see, 4 trips to Taipei (4 x 16,290 = 65,160), a trip to Paris, another London, add in a handful of domestic trips, and I might have my first (and hopefully only) 100,000 mile year this year. Fortunately, Northwest/KLM flies everywhere I have needed to/will probably need to go this year.

Manual transmissions and wives...

Fortunately my wife LOVES driving a manual transmission, so much so that she is still threatening to break my other leg now that I am driving my 530i 5-Speed again and she is back in her Caravan. I am still trying to get her to opt for a new 525iT 5-Speed instead of a new Caravan, but I suspect that the space/utility of the van will win out in the end. :-(

Best Regards,
Shipo

nyccarguy · April 2003

You're a smart guy though. If anybody could figure out how to swap a manual transmission into a Caravan it is you:)

brave1heart · April 2003

Good to hear from you. I'm very surprised to hear about the chip - I thought that even Dinan and Jim Conforti couldn't eke out any HP gains and Authotority goes for double-digit gains?!?

leenelsonmd · April 2003

Unfortunately you will go nowhere with complaints about the tires. I doubt the tires are the cause of your problems, and it is very possible that they need replacement even at 18k miles. It is sortof one of those "true, true, and unrelated" facts. I also doubt that over-inflation ruined them, but I imagine it would depend on the severity of the over-inflation. It is highly unlikely that BMW checked the pressure at the last checkup. They probably said they did, and just eyeballed it -- if they look low they would have noted it. Checking tire pressure is something that every car owner should do at least once or twice a month, but no one does. At least 15% of the vehicles I see out driving around have underinflated tires that are obvious to the naked eye. Sorry to hear about all of the problems with the car -- that is a real shame.

FWIW: I have less than 12k miles on my car and already need to replace all 4 of my tires.

ddblue · May 2003

Brave. Good to be back. Thanks. Yes, I had been searching high and low for something to make up for my lack of displacement (Car Viagra, if you will). Autothority was working on an ECU upgrade last year, but they felt it wasn't up to par. So waited until this spring to release the new one. I talked to Ali there, and he said the ECU upgrade would definitely make a difference. True enough, it did. I can even make my Dunlop Wintersport M2s chirp between 1st and 2nd now and the car moves more quickly in 5th gear. From 70 to 100, it's even more responsive.

How's your car doing? Are you planning on keeping it long term? Get me up to speed on the latest.

dave330i · May 2003

"dave330i, did somebody slip something into your drink? LOL! As long as you've still got your 330i!
"

No, my parents needed a new car. The TL was the perfect car for them.

leenelsonmd - I check my tire pressure almost everytime I fill the car. I even account for the hot tire/cold tire pressure difference by measuring while the tires are cold, then again at the station.

dave330i · May 2003

I wouldn't worry too much about the resale. You're paying 35-40k on a car. Get the one you really want.

couples - it's been my experience that most couples drive their car most of the time (i.e. he drives his car, she drive her car). Rather silly to get a step for those rare occasion she wants to drive. It's the same logic people use to get a FWD vs. RWD.

Unfortunately, if you happen to be those rare couples who switch cars regularly, then teach her how to drive a manual (it's not that hard

), or get a step.

white6 · May 2003

You guys crack me up! I'm in the same boat! I may be using the old "but, honey, the 325 needs a manual since it doesn't have as much horsepower..." argument. She will like the $6-7,000 price difference, for sure. I've got my salesman searching for a 03 325Ci with 5-speed... we'll see what he comes up with. Otherwise, I may just opt for a 04 330Ci with the 6-speed and sport package! No, probably not. Wife will probably overrule. ;(

kdshapiro · May 2003

I check my tire pressure one a week.

As well as my fluid levels.

dave330i · May 2003

"As well as my fluid levels."

Would that be beer, wine, or mixed drinks?

kdshapiro · May 2003

All of the above.

jean7of9 · May 2003

The manual of my 03 330xi says that it is possible to adjust the tilt angle of the Passenger Side Mirror when in Reverse. But that same manual did not provide any additional detail. Trying adjustment by hand while pressing on the edges did not work neither because it always resets to the factory adjustment. An recommendation? Thanks.

tenet1 · May 2003

The mirror will tilt automatically if you have the premium package (or auto seats) and if the L/R switch for the side mirrors is to the drivers side, when you put the car in reverse.

blkonblk330i · May 2003

Move the switch for the side mirrors to the passenger side and you will be able to adjust the tilt angle when in reverse. If you leave the switch in the driver side, it will automatically tilt down when you put the car in reverse.

leenelsonmd · May 2003

I knew you two were going to say something about the tire pressure check. Some 20000 posts above you mentioned that you check it each time. I think that is the best way to go, but I am a little lazy and check it every couple of weeks.

I do check the cold and warm pressure ;-).

kdshapiro · May 2003

Seems to me the low profile tires are more susceptible to variations in air pressure than the normal "fat" tires. Air temperature has a big effect. A tire inflated to 33psi at 30 degrees will be overinflated at 70 degrees. Hence during temperature fluctuations I check the tires more frequently.

erickpl · May 2003

That CPU upgrade you mentioned... is it available on 2002's as well?

I wouldn't mind upgrading, but am not sure if a CPU upgrade is available for a 2002 325xi.

-Paul

chile96 · May 2003

I just bought a 325i SP,PP. What should my tire pressures be? I have bridgestones touranzas on it I think? Just do whatever it says on the tirewall or is there a BMW specification I should follow?

Thanks
fo

ddblue · May 2003

Go to http://www.autothority.com. You can choose your year and model. I plugged in 2002 325i (they didn't show Xi, but it should be the same). The ECU Upgrade came up as one of the products available. I would call them directly and find out. Depending on where you are, you can either go in and have it done in an hour or mail in your ECU and they will do it in a day.

BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

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