BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

bartalk2 · November 2003

What's that plastic protuberance on the roof of the new '04 3 (& 5) series, just above the rear window?

kdshapiro · November 2003

kandian45 - I found the 3 series not to be expensive in terms of insurance. I got a quote for about $800/year. Less than some people are paying for G insurance in my area. True there may be other costs associated with out of warranty repairs, but I can't speak to them on a 2002 model at this point.

But at least in my area I wouldn't say the 3 series is more to insure than other cars.

bmwseller · November 2003

KANADIAN,
You'll miss your 'bimmer.

andergtr · November 2003

i didn't dump my BMW but instead added a second car (a scion xB) because the maintenance cost of the BMW is pretty high. at 45,000 miles, i had to pay for my first maintenance outside of scheduled, and i got hit for rear pads, front pads, front rotors, rear tires, and the regular oil change/inspection. total bill was $1400. i just about had a heart attack.

now the BMW sits in the company garage, where i drive it once or twice a week. the scion xB gets better mileage and will cost nothing to maintain in comparison.

however, it sure doesn't drive as fun as the BMW does!

div2 · November 2003

<total bill was $1400. i just about had a heart attack>

Sorry, but that's what can happen when you use the dealer for routine service-especially without a CCA discount. As I've said before: Find a GOOD independent BMW tech. Here's why:
My local shop recently performed an Insp. II on my wife's 528i. In addition to the scheduled service the shop replaced the front pads, the fuel filter(another "lifetime" component-yeah, right), and a tie rod. They also had the sled aligned. All parts used were OEM and all lubricants used were Mobil 1.
Cost:$440
As for tires? Two words: Tire Rack. I haven't bought a set of tires locally since 1994. They drop ship the tires to my shop where they are installed at a nominal cost.
You can get excellent parts and service at reasonable prices if you do a little research. It's worth the trouble.

motenor1 · November 2003

The protuberance on the 04 3s is for sirius satellite radio.

i test drove 03 325i last weekend and i am not impressed with the steering. it is quite stiff. i would think it will be power steering. the sales guy explained that it was due to variable power steering which i did not quite understand. what is it by the way?

jfedor1 · November 2003

I have a question about the new universal bluetooth BMW offers for 03'. Has anybody used it? and does anybody know if it can be added to my 01' 325i?

Thank you

Josh

andergtr · November 2003

i got the local place, just tires, to match the tire rack price.

as far as the dealer...i'm going to find an indy mechanic pretty soon, because i'm about 5K miles from being out of warranty.

chosen12b · November 2003

We are reveiving our new 04 BMW 325ci in mid january and we would like to get a bluetooh system installed. can we get it for this car through the manufactuer?

trmichaels · November 2003

Just curious..... didn't see any mention of this feature in the Assist literature, but it would be a nice plus. Might steer me towards actually paying for the service when the free year runs out.

And to answer an earlier question, I think the shark fin on the roof of the 04s might also be for BMW Assist and/or GPS navigation.

kennynmd · November 2003

I believe the variable power steering is that when you are going over a certain mph, the steereing gets stiffer. If I'm wrong, anyone please correct me.

lawdawgfl · November 2003

How dependable will a 3 series be? Can the car go for 150k miles like a Toyota or a Honda? Can an extended warranty be purchased for the 3? I was able to buy a warranty that took my Nissan Xterra to 100k miles and was suppose to be as good as the factory warranty, it would be nice if the BMW was the same way. Thanks for the help.

andergtr · November 2003

that BMW's are not as robust in the reliability department compared to toyotas and hondas. that doesn't mean the car is unreliable, but certainly BMW's require significantly more maintenance and upkeep. the servicing is significantly more expensive, as well.

having said that, many cars can easily make it to 150k miles these days if you are willing to follow scheduled maintenance and not skimp out on things that need to be replaced.

you can purchase an extended warranty, though i'm not sure how far BMW or the warranter will go out.

the thing that i've noticed in terms of reliability figures with BMW through publications like consumer reports is that most of the problems are electrical. the drivetrain and powertrain seem to be non-issues, but little things like indicator lights and power gadgets seem to have issues.

if you are looking for honda-like reliability and durability (and worry-free maintenance), you probably won't find it in a BMW. having said that, no honda or toyota drives like a BMW, either!

bmwwife · November 2003

Durability is what allows a driver to operate a car for long periods (200,000 miles plus) and a 'bimmer is more durable than any japanese product.

div2 · November 2003

Over the last eight years and 84000 miles the service and repair costs on my 1995 3er have averaged @$37 per month. This figure includes the cost of two sets of 225/50-16 Z rated tires. The car has seen track use as well as autocross competition. It uses 1 quart of Mobil 1 15W-50 every 3500 miles. My wife's 1997 528iA work hack was a BMW CPO car with 46000 miles on it when we purchased it. Over three years and 48000 miles repairs and service have averaged $77 per month. Included in this figure is the $642 cost of dedicated winter tires, steel wheels, and BMW wheel covers. After 94000 miles it still uses no BMW Synthetic 5W-30 between 9000 mile changes. Note that a new BMW will cost somewhat less to run due to the fact that service up to the 36 mo./36K mark is free. As for longevity, my old 1987 535is is now on it's fourth owner. At 300000 miles the engine was opened up for the first time to replace a seeping head gasket. Would an Asian FWD transportation appliance cost me less to run? Probably, but I'd run the very real risk dying of boredom whenever I was behind the wheel.

andergtr · November 2003

i've seen many more examples of acuras, hondas, toyotas, and lexuses that cross the 250,000 or 300,000 mile mark compared to BMW's. i love my BMW, but if i have to sink a grand every single time to replace parts while i only have to change the oil in a japanese car, which car is more "durable"?

there is simply no comparison between the costs of owning/maintaining a toyota or honda relative to a BMW. i love my bimmer, but it is not a cheap car to maintain.

andergtr · November 2003

i wonder if putting 84,000 miles over eight years gives you a different result than putting on 35,000 miles in one year.

kdshapiro · November 2003

From your profile you live in Southern California. In the northeast cars will start an early rust cycle after 5 years due to volumne of salt used on the roads. The German cars seem to stand up better to the punishment of sand and salt year after year.

Places like Pheonix or SoCal a Pinto could go 500,000 miles. But in the northeast it seems to me that older Japanese cars are more prone to rust to older German cars and therefore will fall apart sooner. German vehicles seem to age much more gracefully than Japanese vehicles.

div2 · November 2003

Well, as you can guess, I don't drive the 3er on a daily basis. That said, I drove the car on both of the vacation trips we took this year- over 3000 miles total. I usually drive it to work once or twice a week. It doesn't see a lot of stop and go traffic either. I don't drive it in the snow, mainly because there's not much point in buying a set of dedicated winter tires for it when the 5er already has a set and my other vehicle is a Jeep Wrangler. I also have horrible visions of it being rear-ended by some idiot in a Navigator... I wouldn't think that putting more miles per year over a shorter time span would have any significant effect, but who can say? I did have a BMW M6 that was fairly expensive to run; I probably averaged $150-$200/month for maintenance. However, with a Conforti chip and a Euro exhaust(@310 bhp at the crank) I humiliated dozens of Mustang GTs, Z28s, ZX Turbos, etc. Best of all, I drove it for three years and then sold it for $500 less than I paid for it. If I had bought a new Accord or Camry for a similar amount I would have had very low maintenance costs, but in all liklihood I would have lost at least $10000 in depreciation if I sold it three years later.

bmwwife · November 2003

I'm thinking that these are two different things.

ksoman · November 2003

err, grammar/language topic in edmunds townhall?

:-)

bmwwife · November 2003

in a vehicle means that it will last a long time. Reliable means that it has few repair needs.

What's your point, K?

kdshapiro · November 2003

bmwwife - absolutely a car can be durable with many repairs. Or have few repairs and not be durable.

bartalk2 · November 2003

Only BMW can get away with not including homelink on a $40,000 car. Although it's prewired, this is a dealer-installed extra, right? Where do they mount the homelink and how much do dealers charge for it?

kdshapiro · November 2003

I find that crazy myself, and actually one of the few things that really annoyed me about the car. You can buy the part on-line. Search for circle bmw for one on-line dealer. The homelink is mounter in the panel that has the sunroof control. It's a very simple installation, taking no more than a couple of minutes.

nyccarguy · November 2003

"I also have horrible visions of it being rear-ended by some idiot in a Navigator..."

well said! you forgot to add that the said Navigator has 24" wheels and Z rated tires driving around in the snow:)

We've discussed this on the board so many times, that yes a BMW will cost more to maintain, but your costs will only escalate if you continue to bring the car to the dealership once the warranty has expired. Find a good independent shop who specializes in BMWs, you'll oay less for parts and servicing the car. Join BMWCCA (well worth the $35 price of admission), it gets you discounts on parts, BMWs (after 1 year), and gives you access to information.

One of the advantages of a company having cars on a 6 year life cycle like BMW is that if there is a recurring problem or glitch that they will not only fix it in the latter part of the first year of production, but it will be non-existant at the start of the second year of production. The 2003 or 2004 3er that you buy today has been on the streets since MY '99. The free maintenance for 4 years/50K miles will definitely help. I would have no trouble stepping into a BMW as far (as ownership costs go) if something were to happen to my beloved '01 Honda Prelude Type SH.

bluegray330 · November 2003

I am thinking of buying a 2001 CPO 330i, wondering how many months of free service comes with the car. I know that BMW increased from 3yr/36000 to 4yr/50000 at one point, but don't know which year. thx

andergtr · November 2003

i don't know what the salt does to cars in the northeast, being that i'm from los angeles and grew up in northern cal/bay area. while i don't get salt/rust in so cal, i drive a fair amount of hard, stop/go traffic that a primarily-weekend-only car doesn't see. i think that's something to consider when you look at maintenance costs. certainly that beats the tar out of the brakes a lot more quickly, which was a big part of my maintenance costs at 45K miles.

as far as durable vs. reliable...well, i think we've established that BMW's can last a long time if you continue to sink money into them. the only question is whether you do that at the dealership or through an indy mechanic, because there is a big difference in cost between the two options. having said that, i would stand by my point that the cost of ownership over a 100,000-mile is cheaper with a honda or toyota than with a BMW--EVEN with the included maintenance to 36,000 miles (which BMW has now upped to 50,000 miles).

rpadilla · November 2003

bartalk -- I totally agree! Seems rather odd, but, whatever. Here's the DIY link to installing the UGDO:

http://www.bmwnation.com/ARTICLES/diy/bmwut/bmwut.html

Good luck!

mrl11777 · November 2003

Using the instructions from bmwnation it is really a 15 minute job. The unit is about $125 from CircleBMW.

white6 · November 2003

The November 2003 Car and Driver had the long-term wrap-up of their 2002 Toyota Camry. In 40,000 miles they spent $750 on manufacturer-recommended routine maintenance, including a $479 30,000 mile service that included new oil and coolant, air and A/C filters and automatic transmission fluid. $0 on repair. No new tires were required. While compared to a BMW it may or may not be less expensive in the long run, but it doesn't really sound that cheap to me. A lot more than just an occasional oil change.

andergtr · November 2003

if you are looking at the 40,000-mile mark, the BMW is going to win every time, because maintenance is included in the price of the car. that's fine if you turn your cars pretty quickly or lease them.

if you hold onto them for the long haul like me, the japanese cars seem to be significantly cheaper. in my situation, i can put 40K miles on the car within the first 18 months, so i realize that i am in a different position than the guy who can stick within the mileage caps on a lease.

kdshapiro · November 2003

I have a friend who puts 40,000 miles on the car in a very short timeframe and he goes American all the way.

kyfdx · November 2003

4 year/50K mile free service didn't start until 2003. The 2001 has 3 year/36k mile free service, and is likely up on that car, depending on the in-service date.

regards,
kyfdx

vkwheels · November 2003

Wouldn't the local tire/brake shop have an attitude about installing tires you bought somewhere else (Tire Rack)? The local place has always given me good service in the past.

kyfdx · November 2003

of local shops that will install their tires.

regards,
kyfdx

bartalk2 · November 2003

Thanks for the tips for the Homelink installation on the 3 Series. It should be included! It is on a $26,000 Accord.

gordonwd · November 2003

OK, color selection is highly subjective, but I'm just looking for basic pro/con opinions. I went by the local dealers recently to check out color combos since it's always best to see them on an actual car in natural light, but every one of the 3's on their lots was either black, white, silver, or gray. Geez!

My current car (A4) is a dark metallic red, which looks great when clean and polished, but of course it shows dirt and scratches easily. My last two cars have been shades of red, and my last new blue car was my '72 Datsun 510 (the BMW-killer of its day!), so maybe blue would be a nice choice this time.

But I'm going back and forth between Steel Blue and Mystic Blue. I've seen a couple of Steel Blue cars on a lot in another city, but I haven't seen a 3 in Mystic. BMW also uses this color on their K1200GT motorcycle, and I like it as an m/c color, but don't know how it looks on a car.

Any owners of these colors have any pro/con comments? Would you choose it again? Please, no comments on the order of "color X is ugly...", which only starts flame wars :-).

bmwwife · November 2003

oil changes......BMW no cost up to 50,000 miles. After that, 3 oil services will take the car up to 100,000 @ about $60 per oil service. That's $180 for oil services.
On a Toyota it would be, say every 5,000 miles, say 20 oil services @ $30 a pop, equals $600 dollars.

Plus, all that time. I hate waiting.

That leaves a $420 difference to spend on miscelaneous repairs for the 'bimmer to get to the same # as the Toyota.

kyfdx · November 2003

Yup.. That BMW will be a lot cheaper to maintain over 100K than that Toyota. Just ask anybody. Thats how BMW's got their reputation as being inexpensive to maintain, don't you know?

Now, back to reality......

andergtr · November 2003

the scheduled maintenance portion of my BMW at 45K miles was $300 alone. the other $1100 was the pads, rotors, and tires.

i don't know anyone who has gotten out of the dealer for anything less than $150 each time, and that is for an oil change and resetting some indicator lights.

how do you get $60 per oil change on a BMW?

andergtr · November 2003

BMW's are hardly inexpensive to maintain if you are keeping the car beyond the warranty period. the guys who say they are inexpensive are the guys who lease them and who sell them before the warranty is up.

well, if scheduled maintenance is included up to 50K miles and you dump the car before then, of course it's cheap to maintain. but for the group of us who keep the car for 100K miles or more, it's not a cheap car to maintain.

now...that doesn't mean we don't love our cars. i love my BMW and had a blast driving it to work at 90 mph this morning--i start work at 5 a.m., so there is no traffic at that time, even in los angeles! but i'm fully prepared to cough up significant money to keep driving this thing.

ksoman · November 2003

gordon, my wife has a 3 convertible in mystic blue with dark blue top. Personally, i still prefer the oriental blue, but its not my car and i've to say, the car stands on its own like nobody else. There has not been one day gone by that people will not double glance at it... it is a TOTAL chick magnet... However, I should say, I've seen one mystic blue 3 coupe and it doesnt look as effective as 3 cabrio, but that's my presonal judgement. I have not seen a mystic blue sedan.

Despite my excessive travel, i make time to detail her car every 2nd weekend on my own because the color shows dirt FAST...

Personally I'd still go with the color because everybody is buying white, silver (or variants of gray and blue) and black and i'm not a big fan of red...

ksso

ksoman · November 2003

<eom>

ksoman · November 2003

did you mean cough up money for tickets for speeding?

:-) Just kidding

ksso

kdshapiro · November 2003

andergtr - the 30K and 45K service for my Japanese vehicles were estimated in the range $300-$450. You know what, I never payed that as I skipped most of the non-essential items. When my BMW is beyond the free maintenance period I will skip the non-essentials as well. My Jeep probably was the cheapest vehicle ever to own as over the course of three years I payed for two oil changes, one alignment, one rotate and balance.

My one Japanese vehicle (Toyota) that I stuck it out with, 2 radiators, 2 alternators, batteries, water pump, power steering pump, master cylinder, 2 brake jobs, shocks, 2 sets of tires, multiple alignments etc. I have no delusions the BMW will be cheaper, but it can't be more expensive....

kyfdx · November 2003

I've seen this on a 2003.. It really doesn't look that different from the topaz blue to me. And I know you didn't ask for this, but I personally really like the steel blue. It is the only blue I would consider...

regards,
kyfdx

nyccarguy · November 2003

Some really hot broad (I mean attractive young woman) has a Mystic Blue M3 Coupe that I see fly by me every week or so on the westside highway during my commute home. It is a great color for the coupe, especially with the new LED rear lights.

Truth be told I've only seen the Steel Blue on 325i sedans and 325Ci coupes (w/o SP). Personally I like it much better on the 325i than the Coupe.

My vote is for Mystic Blue!

eve123 · November 2003

I love that color. I saw it on the 2004 M3 with black interior and it looks real sharp...real elegant. I think it's fairly new color ...about 6 months old in the 3 series.

brave1heart · November 2003

My car was due for Inspection II at 56K miles, so I called the dealer. They all quoted $350-390. I called an independent and they quoted $475. I asked why the difference and do they do anything extra? They said they replace the spark plugs. I said they are platinum and should be good for 100K according to BMWNA. They said they've never had a customer say they didn't want the spark plugs. At that point I realized that the vast majority of customers have no idea and do not care to know about car maintenance, so they just pay for whatever the dealer/independent tells them to. I compared Inspection I and Inspection II's items covered in BMWNA's Owners' Circle - the only difference that came up between the two is an air filter. I don't need one anyhow since I already have a cold air intake with a K&N filter. The difference in pricing between Insp. I and II was $150 or so. That is one very expensive air filter!! We got together with some of the guys from the autoX events and did an oil change with a MityVac fluid extractor (product code: MIT7201). Total cost: $30 for synthetic oil and filter. I went ahead and ordered an oil extractor for myself: $60 shipped. BMWs are wonderful cars and I'll always choose one over a typical Japanese fridge, I mean car... But I won't contribute to the $350 per oil change racket that BMW dealers are running. Next time a dealer/independent sees my beloved 325i, it will be for spark plugs at 100K miles. I am sure I'll have to buy tires and brake pads again but with 15 track/autoX days a year, that's a tiny price to pay. And no, I don't expect any problems with the car even with all the hard driving that it is subjected to.

BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

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