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Comments
I looked at the IS300 but didn't drive it. Why should I? How can I take it seriously as a real sports sedan if I can't buy it with a stick? I know that the '02 model will be available with a 5-speed manual, but Lexus screwed up badly by not offering a stick from the beginning.
In the longer term, though, BMW should worry. The Toyota organization has enormous cash reserves & can easily afford to spend whatever it takes to whip the IS300 into shape. As car manufacturers go, BMW is a small company, & Toyota/Lexus could spend it into the ground. I wouldn't dream of buying an IS today, but I might sing a different tune in 2005.
Yes, every person has his/her opinion--and the Town Hall is where we can express them, but my suggestion to you is--go to an IS300 or Integra forum, and join the loyal hordes who might actually enjoy hearing what you have to say. You aren't going to get a whole lot of support here.
I hate to admit this, but IMO the Japanese are better at designing interiors and, for some reasons I couldn't explain, I just feel like their cars are easier and simpler to drive and I can also attest to their excellent long-term endurance.
European cars, on the other hand, are simply in a league of their own. The main and most noticeable differences on European cars from Japanese cars are the superior handling and that overall "balanced" feel. This is not a secret as most people have talked about it, but unless you drive an European car yourself, you probably wouldn't know and understand what I'm talking about. Of course, my bimmer cost me about $40 K and I know that that's a lot but do I think it's worth the $5 K extra over an IS300 considering what I'm getting in a 330xi? Hell yes.
Are there cars out there who can outrun a 3er? Yes, and there are quite a lot of them.
Although I think the 0-60 time may have played a factor in everyone's decision when buying a 3er, I'd be surprised if that is ultimate deciding point.
Personally for me, I didn't buy a bimmer just for the 0-60 time. If that was my main worry I would've bought a $18 K Civic Si and dumped about $5-10 K in modifying the engine and car.
Just my 2 cents.
Your posts also indicate that you have done an "on-paper" analysis only. Good start, but about 10% of the picture -- have you actually DRIVEN a BMW or any of its would-be competitors (imitators) to get a feel for the other 90% of the equation??? See my post #2182. I DROVE the products from Acura and Lexus, thinking I would end up with one of them. When I drove the 325i, however, I realized that the "on-paper" is only 10% of the equation, not the other way around as I had originally thought. It's the unquantifiable togetherness and harmony of the machine that easily won out over the others, not the raw data in the form of hp, 0-60 times, redlines, etc. And I "merely" test drove the 325i! I hadn't anticipated spending over $30k, but those "unquantifiables" made it a no-brainer. And while I was at it, I never wanted to say "what if", so I went all out and got the 330i.
The moral of the story, v_tech, is to do your homework before coming to a board and blaspheming blindly/unjustifiably. And if you're still unconfinced, go out and get a used Z28 -- the most "on-paper" bang for the buck without a hint of the unquantifiables that true enthusiasts value so dearly.
Can't wait to hear Mr. Brave1heart's spin on all of this...
Well, I did get to drive an IS300 last fall. The car felt slow and totally unexciting to drive. The engine noise sounded like it was generated by a Nintendo game. The suspension is stiff but not exactly comfortable and a few times I bottomed it when I hit bumps on the road. There is a severe understeer problem and every time I cornered I felt like I had to correct my corrections. The exterior says Honda Civic more than anything else. The triangular clear lens lights may appeal to a 12-year old but they show no class at all. The exterior lines are busy. The interior felt cramped up and there was severe lack of legroom. I was sitting in it like I was wearing a short skirt during an important job interview. The dash is so tacky it could have been a K-Mart blue light special. I liked the steering wheel and the seats - those were great. Everything else was screaming Nintendo generation boy racer car. Oh, and does anyone from the Nintendo generation even know how to drive a manual these days? Judging by the lack of a manual in the IS300, I'd be guessing no. I am not the least bit worried about Toyota ever catching up with BMW or any other German automaker any time soon. Maybe Japanese Nintendo games will be better, though. :O)
Drove the IS300 last year when they were the rage, couldnt find one easily in Sacramento. Finally got to drive one, and in a word, boring.
Very unresponsive off the line, I could have slept through the test drive. Numbing steering, pretty harsh suspension feedback, one would have to get used to the interior and exterior look. They were overpricing them to the extent that a new '01 325I was barely a few thousand difference. The dealer was annoyingly smug about their product and didnt even want to talk about dealing, when I told them they were pricing it up to close to the 325i. Now, today they have 2 0 0
of them and can barely give them away !!
I bought the 325i for all the reasons written above by many and can say , there is absolutely no comparison between the Bavarian and the Japanese makes here.. I have yet to see 2 0 0 new BMW cars on any lot waiting to be sold, so what does that tell you ?? The BMW stock or F1 and everything else in between, is still years ahead of the closest competition.. Nothing yet compares to that BMW Symphony at high rpm !!!
DanF '01 325i Sedan, 5 speed, black, black leather, SP, PP, Xenon, HK upgrade, 6 cd changer
I think, the new models typically come out in September and you should be able to pre-order them some time in June. I keep up with the automotive press and I can say for sure that BMW is not planning any major changes for next year's 3-series. I suspect there may be a minor facelift to keep it looking fresh but the rest of the car should be very much the same. For 2003, BMW is coming up with improved (didn't think that was even possible!!) engine management technology that is supposed to offer extra creamy smooth engines with improved fuel efficiency.
wailea - I've read that the wagons in general offer pretty good weight distribution and I'm not surprised to hear that the 3-series wagon handles well. Oddly enough, Audi's fastest car in Europe (the RS2) is an A4 Avant on steroids. It's something like 360 hp and you can only get it in wagon trim.
Ive been so busy with work, Ive barely had time to check in, but did this am and saw that IS300 trash going on.. They have always had one of those "detached" feelings when you drive them, totally isolated from the road, which may be very good to some but not this guy..
Thanks for taking good care of all of us, Ill be around periodically to see whats happening, I started posting on the old site believe since mid year of 2000 or so.. Seen alot of good and then alot of not-so-good happen, this new forum is one of the best things to happen, and seems to have helped get things calm again..
Take Care !!
DanF
I also am looking to modify my 01' 325i but havent found anyone that sells one yet for it. I would also like to investigate a cold air box, etc.. to go along with it. Havent found any software either, but still looking.. Guess Dinan may have some soon, I need to check out their site again.. Ill let you know if I find any and hope you can do the same..
Thanks
DanF
I can tell you there's no way I am spending $2000 on sport seats. I wish I didn't hate the M aero styling.
Then I drove it again, and realized why BMW can get away with bad customer service. The car sells itself and people (me included) will ultimately overlook the bad service until something else comparable comes along. Right now, though, there is NOTHING on the horizon that even comes close. Nothing drives like a BMW...it really is an awesome machine. Wow...I wish there was something else close, but I've decided I can't part with the car.
I test drove a C Class on Saturday, again, and realized that it's just a BMW wannabe that really doesn't compare at all. As for the Japanese cars, that's a whole other market. Those cars, IS300 included, are not for true driving enthusiasts. Brave1heart...I felt like you did when you picked up your new car last week...it's a feeling you only get in a BMW. I just hope nothing else major goes wrong with this car.
So, back to the trip. My wife and I picked up the car (330i, 5-spd, titanium silver, black leatherette, SP, MR) in Munich on April 25. We took the subway from Marienplatz and rolled our luggage for the 10-minute walk from the subway station. Arriving at the delivery center was very cool - bimmers everywhere and a sign at the gate that said simply, "BMW European Delivery." We went inside, had a great lunch on BMW, and after about an hour, were called to pick up the car. Can't believe how excited I was to see it - this 32 year old felt like a 10-year-old kid in a toy store. My delivery person spent about 30 minutes going over the car with me. I purchased wheel locks for $20 at the center and they installed them for me. Then she sent us off with a reminder to keep the speed below 80mph and the rpms below 4000. I was quickly amazed by the power in the 3-liter six. My others cars are 4-bangers and a couple of times I applied a bit too much pressure on the accelerator and we were thrown back into our seats. Wow!
Our first stop was at a large (largest perhaps in Munich) BMW dealer about 5 minutes from the delivery center - blows away every US dealer I've been too. Every make and model imaginable was on display, including the Z8. Lots of cool accessories also, and in the back, they had on display all the optional wheel designs offered by BMW. A great place to go for someone looking for OEM modifications to their car.
We then headed out to Dachau, Germany's first concentration camp. I had visited previously, but it was the first time for my wife - you cannot go away without being moved.
Finally, we put the car on the autobahn and headed north for Nuremberg. It was tough to stay below 80mph as cars going upwards of 120mph were passing us. They passed us like we were standing still. But I kept my willpower and followed the instructions of my delivery person. We spent the night in Nuremberg and visited the old town the following day. On the way out, we stopped at Room 600 of the courthouse where the infamous Nuremberg trials were held. (We were actually able to go into the room as a trial was currently in progress, although since neither of us spoke German, we didn't understand anything.)
The next stop was to the west - Rothenburg ob der Tauber - a medieval town that no one should pass up. With its walled inner city, it has the ability to transport you back into the past (despite the tourists). Leaving Rothenburg, we drove for about 60 miles on the famous Romantic Road, passing the other medieval towns of Nordlingen and Dinkelsbuhl.
From there, it was southbound to Fussen, which stands at the foot of the Alps near the Austrian border. On the way to Fussen, we had a little incident with the local authorities. I was driving along at about 75mph, when a VW Passat wagon passes us and then pulls in front of us. There is a display in the back window of the wagon that begins to flash to us in red letters, "Police, Follow." However, the display was in German. Police I understood - Follow I did not. I thought the car might be trying to tell us that there were police up ahead. I followed the car for about 2 minutes, until finally another car passed both of us. I figured, hey, that guy passed the Passat so I guess I can do the same. As soon as I moved to the left lane, the Passat swerves to cut me off. Now I'm thinking, "What the %&@!" I move back into the right lane and the guy in the passenger seat turns around and flashes a badge to us. Then it dawned on me that they were police. (Remember, the car had no markings to indicate it was an official police vehicle.) Needless to say, I really felt like an idiot. I followed him at the next exit into a service station. Both men get out (one dressed in typical Tyrolean attire) and approach us to ask for our papers (passports and vehicle registration). After seeing that the car was indeed mine, they let us go. I asked them why we were pulled over and they said they just do periodic checks looking for stolen cars and drugs. Guess my wife and I have that suspicious look about us. Or perhaps it was because we were the only ones on the autobahn doing 75mph. ;-)
Eventually, we found our way to Fussen and holed up in this beautiful little inn at the foot of a lake. King Ludwig's castle of Neuschwanstein awaited us the following day. If you don't know it, this is the most photographed castle in Germany and is the one that Walt Disney modeled his castles after.
After visiting Neuschwanstein, we headed into the Alps and crossed the border for Innsbruck. I was skeptical about going to Innsbruck, thinking that it was going to be a typical ski town. I was definitely wrong - Innsbruck is very charming, and surrounded by the Alps, is one of the most beautiful cities in Austria. A definite must see IMO. From Innsbruck, it was back through the Alps into Germany again to visit the alpine village of Garmish-Partenkirchen, where the winters Olympics were once held. We had a superb plate of pasta at a trattoria in Garmisch, and then headed to another of Ludwig's castles: Schloss Linderhoff. Then it was back through the German countryside and into Austria and the city of Mozart, Salzburg.
Salzburg was probably my favorite city on the trip. The fortress that overlooks the city and the old town with its cafes and music were simply wonderful. We spent one evening at the fortress and dined at a restaurant with a table overlooking the Alps, and followed it up with a chamber music concert listening to Mozart. (I can't do that in Austin!)
We spend two days in Salzburg and then headed to Vienna. A beautiful city in its own right with a very rich history. Vienna reminded me a bit of Paris. It had more of that big city feel to it where people are generally more hurried. The palaces of the Hapsburg dynasties were phenomenal, as was a visit to the Spanish Riding School to view the training sessions of the Lippizaner horses. And the desserts... We could have eaten desserts in the cafes all day long, so sumptuous they were.
Finally, our trip was approaching its end, and we began the 300-mile drive back to Munich, stop
Finally, our trip was approaching its end, and we began the 300-mile drive back to Munich, stopping on the way at the Melk Abbey and the Austrian concentration camp of Mauthausen. I realized at this point that I would surpass the 1200-mile break-in point, but it would not be until we were quite close to Munich. So perhaps I could get a taste of really driving the German autobahn after all. This happened about 20 miles outside of Munich. I was able to push the car up to 134mph (per the speedometer) before the governor kicked in. It felt like I had suddenly let up off the accelerator; too bad because the car was still pulling even at this speed. Furthermore, as I was blowing by cars in the middle lane, there were cars in front of me and behind me who were traveling the same speed!! I can see why the best cars in the world are made in Germany. BMW, MBZ, and Porsche all have those wonderful roads to drive on - places where the cars can really live out their full potential. We dropped the car off in Munich at E.H. Harms the following day (May 4), and the folks there were very courteous and expeditious, calling us a cab to take us to the airport. (Fortunately we were able to leave later that day because the Lufthansa pilots were on strike through noon). All in all, 9 days with the car and 1245 miles.
Let me touch briefly on the roads. The German autobahn is just amazing. People can drive at those speeds because they keep the roads in such good condition. Hardly any imperfections or inconsistencies. No dirt or rocks on the road that get thrown up by the many trucks. Just smooth, wide-open lanes that invite you to go faster and faster. Of course not all the autobahns are in pristine condition, but a majority of the ones I drove on were. This was in stark contrast to the roads in Austria. Frankly, they paled in comparison to their German counterparts. The 200-mile trip between Salzburg and Vienna (which we did in both directions) was painful. So much construction where the speeds were limited to 80kph (about 50mph). Driving on the back roads wasn't any better because the speeds were limited at 70kph, and for the most part, Austrians don't speed. The back roads in Germany were lots of fun though. Sections on the Romantic Road and in the Alps that invited me to test the perfect balance and agility of the 3er. What a wonderful car to drive on those roads.
And finally, let me highlight the car itself. IMO, the titanium silver with the sports package is stunning - I can't get enough of looking at it. (For right now I have to settle with my pictures since I left my car behind.) Silver shows the superb lines of the e46 better than any other color. Yes there were lots and lots of silver e46s in Germany, but that still doesn't tire me from the color. Plus, I am completely satisfied with the black leatherette. It looks and smells great, and saved me about $1200. The aluminum trim provides a stark contrast to the all-black interior - very sharp. However, it tends to streak easily and will require constant effort to keep clean. The moonroof is also a must-have option IMO because it is so large. When fully open, it extends way beyond the back of your head. Engine, as I said before is excellent. I love the exhaust note when the car is started - you know this car means business. I was able to pass cars effortlessly, even when ascending hills in the Alps. Handling and balance are very crisp. The sport seats are very snug, but I think I will need to work on the seating position. There is so much side bolster support, that it was difficult for me to get used to, especially as a passenger. (And for those of you thinking I need to lose weight, I'm 6'1" and weigh 150 lbs.) The shifter also took some getting used to. The throws are very long in comparison to my Z3 and my GS-R. I may look at getting a short shifter kit. And the clutch is a completely different animal. I will certainly not be drag racing anyone off the line until starting in first gear becomes second nature to me.
There were only two things that stood at as deficiencies IMO. First, I believe there is excessive wind noise at freeway speeds, especially when conditions are gusty outside. I think BMW can do a better job in this regard. This however is more of an annoyance and I can live with it. The other deficiency is - you guessed it - the steering. My car is a week 14 car. It has a stamp of 4/01 production on the vehicle. Rumors were that all April production and beyond cars would have the old 99-00 heavy steering from the 323/328. I don't know what steering my car has - only that it is too light - noticeably lighter than both my Z3 and GS-R. The steering does not mesh with the rest of the car's sporting character. It's a shame that BMW doesn't offer the wonderful heavy steering from the e36 when cars with sport packages are ordered. This would be a great way IMO for BMW to satisfy both markets - sport and luxury. I'm undecided as to what I am going to do about the steering. I've read posts from several owners that the retrofit helps, but is not fully satisfying. (Furthermore, I may already have the retrofit - who knows.) I'm more inclined to wait until the 2002 models come out and see if the steering from those cars can be retrofitted. Supposedly, the steering in the new compact (ti) is superb. Apart from the steering issue, I would rate the car as a 9 out of 10. However, given that the steering plays such a significant role in how a car feels, my overall rating has to drop to 7.5 out of 10.
Below is the link with some pictures from the trip for those of you that are interested. Most are captioned I believe. Be warned that there are lots of pictures of cars as I am an auto enthusiast. Most of the touristy pictures are not there since they were taken with our 35mm camera.
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1673915&a=12838045
Enjoy, and for those of you that made it all the way to the end, thanks for reading my post.
As far as CAI (cold air intake), Dinan has a 325i upgrade kit for $300 that improves air flow thus resulting in an 8 HP gain. I just downloaded some stuff from their web site and I can’t wait to read it in more detail when I get the time. I want to find out if you need a chip mod for the CAI. I wouldn't want to change the software for my car.
Please keep checking the board. Sharing our knowledge will help all of us.
That being said, I'm desperately trying to convince my wife that I NEED a Dinan Cold Air Intake for the BMW!!!
That's the price I pay for a Euro Delivery I guess. I was told unofficially that it should be 4-5 weeks before I see my car again. (The official BMW position is 6-8 weeks.)
Waiting once again in anticipation...
platypus - I read your posts from cover to cover :O). Very narrative and informative. I think we are all in agreement on the steering. I'm not sure if you've had the time to go through the hundreds of posts since you left for Europe but basically, my car was came off the assembly line the same day as yours - 4/1. I compared it back to back with a '00 323i - read my posts from Sunday night. I will be contacting BMWNA and getting on their case soon. BTW, great pictures from the trip!!!
Well, I can't take my eyes from this board but it's getting very tough to keep up. What a great collective wisdom!!
This is my first BMW also. I can't wait to drive it tonight!
PS: I was able to bargain. I got $760 below MSRP. Yeah, there are tough to bargain with in Bloomfield but it is doable.
Enjoy the car!
RE the steering, I tested a 323 whille waiting. In short, not enough of a difference to make me want to change.
Finally, do you know why BMW recommends less air pressure in front than in rear tires? THe dealer just put 35 all around.
Take care. Marc
thedeepdarkblu; my understanding is that any Dinan part installed by an authorized (BMW) mechanic will not only NOT void the warrenty, but will be covered under the factory warranty...
RE the steering, I tested a 323 whille waiting. In short, not enough of a difference to make me want to change.
Finally, do you know why BMW recommends less air pressure in front than in rear tires? THe dealer just put 35 all around.
Take care. Marc
I'm surprised you didn't notice much of a difference in steering compared to the 323. When was your car produced? I'm wondering if you have the April '01 and later models, which are supposed to have the original 3-series steering.
My rears get inflated higher (36psi vs 32psi) than the fronts, but I don't know if thats because of them being the drive tires or because of the different size.
If there are any unanswered questions on air intakes/software etc, that's a forte of mine and I'd be delighted to share thoughts.
Tire pressures - aside from racing, I like to stay within the limit thats stamped on the side of each tire, when hot. The Z rated tires at 17" and bigger tend to be able to handle more tire pressure I notice.. Perhaps some of the racing guys, ccotenj or div2 can enlighten us further?
Thanks !
DanF
DL