BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

530ir1150r · May 2005

Asking about maintenance costs is a good way to start a discussion.

First, in 3 years and 50,000 miles, my "free" maintenance amounted to 3 oil changes, 2 sets of wiper blades, a micro filter and changing the break fluid. I paid for 3 additional oil changes, rotating and balancing tires every 7500 miles and I cannot remember what else. Additionally I just purchased my 2nd set of tires and had to get a wheel last year and had my original wheel repaired.

Secondly, Kipplinger several months ago listed expected 3 year maintenance costs for most all cars. I do not know if they are right or wrong, but I trust their numbers are relative. Again from memory I think they had different 3 Series from $2500 to $3000. Since your car is used I would expect it to tend to the high end.

Therefore, if $1000 per year fits your budget for maintenance, you should be alright; $1500 per year would be no problem. Remember a set of tires will cost approximately $700.

You will hear these numbers are way out of line. I'm just saying how much you should budget to keep from being surprised.

memphis10 · May 2005

I have '03 325 with sport and premium pkg and 29k miles. I have had the following maintenance issues. Wheel alignment, Driver door latch assembly replaced, front panel speaker replaced, flash light in glove box replaced. All these repairs were covered and I had to pay for out of schedule oil changes and tire rotations. This is my daily driver and it has been very reliable. I have checked with several other people who have the same car and they all have these minor issues. With free maintenance I don't mind it at all.

530ir1150r · May 2005

I've not had one issue with my 2002 530i Sport Prem., all maintenance service has been preventive and scheduled. BMWs are not maintenance free though and all services will generally run 1.5 to 2 times the cost on a Toyota. It is not a problem as long as you are aware.

The problem I see is that a large number of BMWs are leased and I am afraid the only maintenance during the lease will be the "free" services BMW performs. I believe these cars will be more problematic as they age and will hurt resale values of all BMWs.

CPOs have an extended warranty. Service II is not a warranty issue and is scheduled at 60,000 miles, post warranty and "free" service.

div2 · May 2005

I have a 96K mile 1995 E36 as well as a 120K mile E39. Maintenance/repair costs-including tires-average @$30/month for the 3er and @$80/month for the 5er. The E36 has only required one set of front pads, new drive belts/idler pulleys and a timing chain tensioner-FWIW, none of the parts failed-they were replaced as a precaution. The E39 has eaten several sets of pads and rotors as well as a water pump. The few other problems have been super easy DIY nickel and dime items such as the trunk lock actuator and windshield washer pump. Would a totally bland FWD appliance such as an Accord or Camry prove cheaper to run? Maybe-but the pleasure of driving a couple real world-class sport sedans more than compensates for their increased cost of operation. Oh yeah, and the BMWs are safer as well; if I had to drive some vanilla FWD grocery-getter every day I'd soon die-of boredom...

akv25 · May 2005

Hi all:

I have been thinking of buying a 3 for almost 2 years now. Finally saved enough money to get one - I am looking at 2003 330i w/ manual trans, xenons, grey leather and the usual options. The car has 16k miles on it. The dealer is agreeing to sell at $28k.

1. Is the price right? KBB and Edmunds price it a little higher. Am I looking at a car with problems?
2. I am assuming that the warranty is tranferable and so is the service deal (free oil changes).
3. Any particular problems that I should be watching out for.

I'd appreciate everybody's help. I plan to keep the car for at least the next 3 years if not more.

kyfdx · May 2005

1) Not that it is directly relevant, but here is what someone just paid for a brand-new '05.. amt7565, "BMW 3-Series: Prices Paid & Buying Experience" #3817, 11 May 2005 11:10 pm

Is the one you are buying CPO from a BMW dealer?

2) All warranty and maintenance plans transfer with the car.

3) Check for previous paint work or body damage... that will kill the re-sale value of a late-model BMW.

regards,
kyfdx

akv25 · May 2005

kyfdx:
This is not a CPO car, which is the reason for my anguish. The dealer sells a lot or premium used cars and I have been to their location but I haven't actually seen this car yet. Did all of the talking on the phone. I plan to see it this weekend.

Thanks for your input.

jimbres · May 2005

Folks -

It's almost time to replace the tires on my 330i SP, & I'd appreciate hearing your picks & pans. I know that some of you like the Michelin PS2, but I've also seen favorable reviews of the Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3 & the Kumho ECSTA MX on Tirerack.com. FWIW, I live in a suburb of NYC & I'd describe my style of driving as moderately spirited but far from crazy. I ride the train to work, so my 330i is for fair-weather weekend recreation. TIA for your thoughts on this.

grantchstr · May 2005

When I come to replace the tires on my 325xi (I live in the Tristate area and have winter driving and snow to contend with) I will do so with the ONLY tires which are rated all season AND snow tires - Nokian, the Finnish tires. I did a lot of research on this and I have them on my other car - they are great.

sunilb · May 2005

a few months ago, I replaced my tires (Potenza in the rear and Contisports up front) with Kumho Ecsta's. They are not as sporty as my previous tires, but they handle reasonably well... are much better in the rain, and are reasonably quieter. Oh yeah, they were much cheaper (~ $95/tire vs. $170/tire for the competitors) and with longer treadlife.

If you want more performance, I would probably get the Michelins but I've been pretty happy with the Kumho's (I was willing to make the small trade-off to save some money).

venture · May 2005

I'm looking for wheels for snow tires. Do you guys buy from the dealer or somewhere else?

I found these while looking on the net.
http://market.autopartsfair.com/bmw-wheels_rims/catalog-item-2832.html

Mine are the standard Star Spoke Styling 45 wheels. :shades:

jamesspot · May 2005

I bought my winter wheels on eBay. Many drivers unload stock wheels to go for a custom look. $500 for my four, including the stock Contis with 10k or so miles. Are they perfect? No, but they give me a decent look for those times when the summer tires are unsuitable.

jasond · May 2005

Hi guys, I'm ready to take my wife's BMW 330 xi in for it's annual oil change still under the 4-year free service program. As you know, BMW does not recommend rotating and balancing the tires as part of routine maintenance. I note that some of you do this after every 7,500 miles. Would you recommend that we do this at our own expense? Why do you think that BMW does not consider intermittent tire rotation and balancing to be necessary? Thanks, Jason

530ir1150r · May 2005

They do not guarantee your tires. Why should they spend money that will save them nothing. I have rotated every 7500 miles and also have the oil and filter changed (every 7500 miles) between recommended service. I do not know if it extends tire life, but it does ride better. Check your tread wear and definitely rotate if one axle is obviously wearing faster than the other.

venture · May 2005

I keep noticing, in my search for wheels for snow tires for my 2005 325i, that most of the ads say they fit up to 2004. This is for the standard Styling 45 wheels (16" x 7.0").

Do they also fit the 2005's and the ads just aren't updated, or is the 2005 different? Anyone know?

Thanks

kyfdx · May 2005

The wheels will fit the '05, as well.. No changes from '04..

I'm with jamesspot... check on Ebay or the classified sections of other bimmer forums (google that, and you'll find them)..

I'd just stick with style '45s.. They are plentiful, and plenty of people are upgrading and have them to sell... From your link, it looks like you could buy new ones for $720/set, so let that be your guide to prices.... I'm thinking under $400 for a set of used ones...

Alternatively, you can buy upgraded wheels from a 325i sport package (17 X 8), and use your current wheels for the snows... But, only if that is something you think you'd like to do... More money for tires, etc. with 17" wheels, but they will improve the look of your car...

regards,
kyfdx

venture · May 2005

Great! Thanks.

I'm looking on ebay right now. A guy with 100% rating has four for sale with the Continentals still mounted. I offered him $300 for two, shipped to my house and insured.

I'll Google in a minute.

paule · May 2005

One more option for you. These are brand new BMW knock off wheels that I think are of very good quality. Search for the "store" to see what they offer.
Here is the link to the set I bought:
BMW Wheels

venture · May 2005

Thanks. I'll check it out.

There are more and more of these popping up on ebay all the time. :surprise:

kyfdx · May 2005

Why only two?

Don't even think about only putting winter tires on the rear of your car.... That will not be a good set-up... Get four of them..

regards,
kyfdx

venture · May 2005

Really? :surprise:

I didn't know that either.

I just remember that people always put winter tires on the rear of their cars.

Is it because of the handling, or what?

I guess I'll change my strategy then and go looking for 4.

docky · May 2005

my wife's 2001 325i slips around like crazy in the snow/ice...better to get the xi for a $10K difference from her trade -- or just buy new winter tires? any suggestions for the best winter tires for this car?

shipo · May 2005

venture

Conventional wisdom these days are to put winter tires (which are in no way shape or form similar to old fashioned knobby snow tires) at all four corners. Think about it, why would you want good traction to "Go" if you don't have any traction to "Turn" or "Stop"?

docky

My 530i was essentially undrivable with even a quarter of an inch of snow on the ground, with the OEM tires that is. Once I mounted a set of four winter tires on it, the only thing that would stop it was when the snow would get deep enough to turn my car into a snow plow. ;-)

Save your money and buy a set of winter tires, which can be had fairly inexpensively. I just checked TireRack.com, and they have a set for your 2001 325i for $864 plus shipping and taxes. That set includes (4) Borbet Type T Silver wheels with a Machined Lip in the 16x7.5 size, (4) Michelin X-Ice Blackwall tires in the 205/50 R16 size, and twenty wheel bolts. Substantially cheaper than upgrading to an "xi". ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

venture · May 2005

shipo,

It makes perfect sense. Isn't it amazing how it becomes painfully obvious when explained?

I ordered the same wheels & tires from Tirerack,com that you recommended to docky except the tires are 225/50 QR16. They should be here in PA in a few days.

Thanks to you & kyfdx for the help

docky · May 2005

I appreciate your info, I just want the car to be safe enough to drive in New England snow with 2 young kids in it. If the 325i will handle like a champ with new winter sneakers, I can save myself about $250/mo in new car payments.

Great info, again, many thanks!

shipo · May 2005

You're welcome, any time. ;-)

I'm kind of a winter tire bigot who used to believe that a set of all-season rubber was "Good enough", however, since I moved my family (with two young children as well) up here to southern New Hamster I've discovered the error of my ways. The difference between a winter tire shod BMW and one that's not is almost unbelievable when you get into the white stuff.

Best Regards,
Shipo

bmwfrevr · May 2005

Hello,
Has anybody done the BMW CCA rebate after leasing a vehicle I mean the $500 cash back on 3 series, what are the procedures? and does anyone know if there is any reason the new E90 will not be included.

Thanks in advance.

grantchstr · May 2005

I believe that certain tire fitters have a service whereby they will switch your tires every year in the spring and fall (snow tires in the fall) SO YOU DONT NEED TWO SETS OF WHEELS.........Once you are finished with your OEM tires - get Nokians and keep 'em all year round!

dl7265 · May 2005

Long as you meet the requirments member for one consecutive year.I think there is a form to submitt from the CCA web site.

DL

beta23 · May 2005

Hey, does anybody know if its possible to change the wood trim of a BMW 325xi (2002) into the aluminum trim. I think the aluminum looks cooler, but I dont know if I could change that and i dont know how much it would cost.

Ne ideas??

shipo · May 2005

Uhhh, if you work out the cost of mounting and balancing twice per year, the buy back for a decent set of wheels is only about two years. Then again there is the time associated with making an appointment for the swap, driving your tires to the tire shop, waiting around for the actual swap, and then driving back home. If you have a complete wheel tire package, you can do the swap yourself in about a half of an hour. Combining the cost with the time and I decided that I cost justified my second set of wheels in less than a year.

Regarding using Nokians all year round, that solution is at best a compromise, trading off maximum performance in both hot summer conditions and wintery conditions. The fact is that there is no such a thing as a year round tire that performs equally well in the snow as it does on hot dry pavement.

Best Regards,
Shipo

derfo · May 2005

Right on!!
For winter tires, If you can afford a $35,000 to 45,000 machine, you should be able to afford a $400 set of wheels to put your snow tires on. If you can not afford the wheels, you should never of bought the BMW in the first place!! IMHO

grantchstr · May 2005

I went through the two sets of wheels and two sets of tires routine before - and learned from it. Its a hassle, I would rather have a pro change tires spring and fall - and that of course means rotation as well which apparently doesnt happen other wise. Cost isn't the determining factor.

div2 · May 2005

>I went through the two sets of wheels and two sets of tires routine before - and
>I learned from it. Its a hassle...
Let's see... it takes me all of @30 minutes to change all four wheels and tires on my 3er or 5er. Of course, I'm not a "pro", so instead of using an air wrench to tighten the lug bolts to 200 lb. ft. I use a calibrated torque wrench to tighten the bolts to factory specs(I've found that most tire shops don't even require their new hires to have opposable thumbs). I also don't get to flip through all the neat tire industry trade mags that lay scattered about the pro's customer lounge.
Silly me; I guess I just haven't learned enough about BMWs yet... :P

shipo · May 2005

"Cost isn't the determining factor."

Fair enough, but in my case, time is. I spend about an hour per year dealing with swapping my tires. If I only had a single set of rims I would spend several times that number.

There are other factors too, if you only have a single set of rims you must deal with the following issues:
1) Extra time messing around waiting for the shop to do the job (as previously mentioned).
2) Assuming wheels are sized for optimal summer driving (ie. greater diameter and width), you will then be forced into buying winter tires that will fit those larger and wider wheels, which are usually both more expensive AND less effective in the slippery stuff.
3) All of the mounting and remounting takes its toll on the tires, and even to a certain extent on the wheels, potentially shortening their useful life.

Then again there is the cost. In my case, I spent $1,007 ($500 for the wheels, the remainder was for the tires and the shipping) on my winter wheel set for my 2002 530i, which I had for exactly 36 months. In exchange for buying the set, I was able to avoid six trips to the local tire shop, at about $100 per trip for the mounting and balancing. I figure that I also saved myself between 5 and 7 hours per year dealing with the logistics of using a shop to remount the tires as opposed to doing it myself. Now that the car is gone coupled with the fact that my winter set will not fit on an E90, I have a perfectly good set of winter tires that I can sell to an E39 owner next fall for about $500. Speaking of the E39, when I had it inspected prior to lease end, the inspector told me that I wouldn't be charged for any new tires because the OEM Michelin Pilot Primacy tires all had more than enough tread on them. Had I not used the winter set for four months in each of the last three winters, I would have had to buy a second set of summer rubber at some point during the lease.

Said another way, over the three years I had the 530i, I had three options regarding the tires (using 2005 TireRack.com dollars):

1) Leave the OEM rubber on the car year round (replacing them when they wore out), and not drive the car when there was snow on the ground. Total cost: $930 (four new Michelin Pilot Primacy 235/45 R17 tires, plus shipping and mounting)
2) Buy a set of 235/45 R17 winter tires and have them swapped for the OEM rubber every Spring and Fall. Total cost: $1,284 ($684 for four new Michelin Pilot Alpin PA2 tires, and $600 for six trips to the tire shop for remounting and balancing)
3) Buy a complete set of winter wheels and tires (225/55 R16 tires and 16 x 7.5 wheels), performing the tire swap in my driveway, and then selling them when the lease on the car is over. Total cost $430 ($930 for four Michelin X-Ice tires mounted on Borbet Type H wheels, -$500 reselling the winter set)

Best Regards,
Shipo

gordonwd · May 2005

I agree. Plus, every time you have your tires remounted on your rims, you run the chance of having your rims scratched by the mounting equipment or clumsy handling.

div2 · May 2005

Excellent point; I don't want my rims to see a tire mounting machine any more than is absolutely necessary.

fmbman · May 2005

This just made me remember something... since I only have to go to the dealer once per year, how does this effect tire rotation. I'm used to having the rotation being done, what... maybe twice per year. Is this an issue or am I thinking too much? :confuse:

grantchstr · May 2005

All of the mounting and remounting takes its toll on the tires, and even to a certain extent on the wheels, potentially shortening their useful life.

This is true, however I reckon new snow tires can be used say for four winters before their effectiveness wears off (say 20,000 miles) - the question is will seven mountings/dismountings (you dont have to worry about the throwaway last one) result in an unsafe tire for that fourth winter?

Then again there is the cost. In my case, I spent $1,007 ($500 for the wheels, the remainder was for the tires and the shipping) on my winter wheel set for my 2002 530i, which I had for exactly 36 months. In exchange for buying the set, I was able to avoid six trips to the local tire shop, at about $100 per trip for the mounting and balancing

It costs me 11.95 for balancing - free mounting - and 2.95 for valve stems (are these REALLY necessary each time I wonder?) so that works out at an incremental $120 a year or $476 over 4 winters. And I reckon that I spend the same amount of time waiting in my car to get into the shop as I would jacking up the car four times for wheel changes (and it often works out that I cant get the friggen wheels off anyhow!).

kyfdx · May 2005

It might not... but, it sure raises the odds that you might have problems with it...

If you'd rather not get other wheels, that is your prerogative... As you said, cost was not a factor for you... I doubt it is a big deal other than cost and time..

I'm in the other camp... If I had to guess, I'd say popular opinion will be about 20 to 1 in favor of a second set of wheels..

regards,
kyfdx

seqlady · May 2005

Found a 325i 2005 RWD, premium pkg, sport pkg, heated seats. List 34,670; dealer is offering 3,500 off bringing total price to 31,170. Invoice is listed as 31,775.
Never bought a leftover new car before - what should we offer?

kyfdx · May 2005

There is a $2500 dealer cash incentive on the '05 325i RWD.... If the invoice is $31,775.. then a good price would be $30K even.... $30,500 at most..

regards,
kyfdx

erickpl · May 2005

Yes it can be changed. When we ordered our 2002 325xi we ordered the wood trim/Premium package. Since we had the nat brown leather, aluminum would look dumb. Well, it came with aluminum and no PP. We almost refused the vehicle, but they gave us most of the PP (except the sunroof that we don't miss) for free. They swapped out the aluminum trim for the wood trim wit hno problems whatsoever. Whether you can do it yourself depends on your skills and willingness to do it. I'd probably break every piece at least 3 times before I got it right I suspect.

-Paul

seqlady · May 2005

Will let you know if it's accepted

beta23 · May 2005

HA me 2... thanks alot... do you know how much that would cost though?

shipo · May 2005

"This is true, however I reckon new snow tires can be used say for four winters before their effectiveness wears off (say 20,000 miles) - the question is will seven mountings/dismountings (you dont have to worry about the throwaway last one) result in an unsafe tire for that fourth winter?"

Hmmm, I'm going to have to take issue with that one. My Michelin Arctic-Alpin tires have three seasons and probably 15,000 miles on them, and they still look practically new. I figure they're good for an easy 6 years and 30,000 miles.

"It costs me 11.95 for balancing - free mounting - and 2.95 for valve stems (are these REALLY necessary each time I wonder?) so that works out at an incremental $120 a year or $476 over 4 winters."

I have no idea where you are getting your tires done, but around here ain't nobody does free mounting, even if you bought the tires from them in the first place. The anomaly of your deal not withstanding, the "Real World" price for swapping tires on a set of rims is about $100 per set, twice a year.

"And I reckon that I spend the same amount of time waiting in my car to get into the shop as I would jacking up the car four times for wheel changes..."

Ummm, okay, but how long does it take you from the moment you walk out of your home to the moment you walk back in. In my case it's about a half an hour, twice per year. I'm having a difficult time believing that you can go out to your car, load the tires into it, fire it up and drive to the tire place, wait for them to swap the rubber, drive home and unload the car, all in a half of an hour, or even an hour for that matter.

"...(and it often works out that I cant get the friggen wheels off anyhow!)."

Ahhh, now we have another issue. As div2 touched upon yesterday, most (all?) tire shops in the world employ ham fisted mechanics who use a pneumatic impact wrench to mount your wheels. The effective torque on the lug bolts is often well over 200 lb-ft, which is almost two and a half times the torque called for in the BMW Owner's Manual. All of that extra torque can have a number of very nasty side effects, none of which I'm willing to live with. Side effects can include (but are not limited to):

1) Damage to the (expensive) alloy wheel.
2) Warping of the brake rotor, causing the pedal to pulse under braking (potentially dangerous, and expensive to fix)
3) Inability to remove a wheel with the lug wrench in the event of a flat tire (annoying, time consuming, and potentially life threatening)

If you absolutely insist on having someone else do your tire swap (and since you only have one set of wheels, you have no choice), please, do yourself a favor, buy a torque wrench and re-torque the lug bolts to 88.5 lb-ft, and of course remember to use the "Star Pattern".

Best Regards,
Shipo

jim1395 · May 2005

since the topic is snow tires, i bought 4 brand new dunlop winter sport m2s for my 325i sport pkg. with only 4000 miles on them all 4 have bubbles on the inner side walls. bought them from tirerack and the size is the recommended 205/55-16 mounted on new 16 alum borbet wheels. i didn't get the raod haz ins. and the tire rack won't replace them. they say its road hazard, i say manufacturers defect. anyway not very happy. i also contacted dunlop and they had me bring it to a dealer who also said its due to road hazard. i think they told dunlop that just because i didn't buy them from him. what do you guys think road hazard or defect. 4 brand new tires on 4 brand new wheels on a brand new bmw.

grantchstr · May 2005

Ahhh, now we have another issue. As div2 touched upon yesterday, most (all?) tire shops in the world employ ham fisted mechanics who use a pneumatic impact wrench to mount your wheels. The effective torque on the lug bolts is often well over 200 lb-ft, which is almost two and a half times the torque called for in the BMW Owner's Manual. All of that extra torque can have a number of very nasty side effects, none of which I'm willing to live with.

You are right about that, but are dealers any different? I wonder whether they use pneumatic impact wrenches as well.

shipo · May 2005

Thinking that since you got 4 out of 4, that other folks most likely have had the same problem. With that in mind, I queried the web every which way I could, and came up with nuthin, zip, zero and nada. Like you I'm having a very difficult time believing that you somehow managed to blister four different tires from road hazards and not know about it. That of course leads me to believe that it is the tires themselves that are at fault. Unfortunately, without lots of other voices claiming the same problem, it is going to be a very steep uphill battle to prove the tires are at fault. :-(

Maybe it would be best if you just bit the bullet and bought some new Michelin or Pirelli winter tires (anybody but Dunlop/Bridgestone/Firestone). Annoying? Truly. End of the world? Nope, it might just be one of those times when you need to move on. I feel your pain none-the-less.

Best Regards,
Shipo

shipo · May 2005

"I wonder whether they use pneumatic impact wrenches as well."

To be perfectly honest about it, I have no idea, and I'm not willing to find out any time soon. Having said that, my bet is that they too use a pneumatic impact wrench on the wheels. The sad fact is that the mechanic can turn more cars per hour that way, and that is how he/she gets paid. :-(

Best Regards,
Shipo

BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

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