BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

footprints · December 2000

I have taken many of the helpful advice from this forum and just sent 5-6 seperate email inquiries to dealers both near and far. I have received only two responses and only one began negotiations. "We are very close to a deal. I can't sell you the vehicle for $30900
with the sport package, the package costs $1500. I will sell you this vehicle for $31625 and this includes the sport package. Please contact
me at (***)." I have changed the vehicle from a 325xi w/PP to a 325i with both Premium & Sp pkg.
I figured a fair price would be $30,900 + tax
& tags. I believe I should stand firm!! (Oh, the cost of Sports pkg MSRP= 1,200/Invoice= $1, 020 correct?)

markjenn · December 2000

I don't have the inclination to look up the numbers for you, but the numbers at Edmonds.com are correct for MSRP and invoice, whatever they are.

On a 325i like you are buying, you are basically looking at about 10% from invoice to MSRP. Most folks in most areas, with serious bargaining, are able to split the difference and get the car for about 5% over. Some are doing a bit better, many worse. You can stand firm, but the dealer doesn't have to agree to your price if they don't want to. Local conditions of supply and demand are what sets the lowest price and they can change day-to-day. The best you can do is the best you can do. If you're in the ballpark, I'd get the car.

- Mark

dante6 · December 2000

Gentlemen and Ladies,

I am in the process of buying my dream car, the BMW 330I. However, I am trying to determine if AWD is necessary and worth the price which I am being asked to pay to add the feature. I wanted to get your feelings on having your BMW w/ AWD or not. What are the benefits? I live in the Seattle Wa. area, very little snow, but lots of drizzle.

steve1526 · December 2000

I just heard the difference between the HK vs in-dash CD and while the HK seemed superior, I am not sure if it is worth the extra money. For those of you who have been driving with one or the other, do you have a firm opinion? Thanks for any input.

markjenn · December 2000

If you scroll up fifty messages or so, there has been a great deal of discussion on this.

FWIIW, I'm in the Seattle area and didn't even consider AWD - better to save the money and get a quicker, lighter, and simpler car. But I've got a Mercedes ML SUV to use when I need to (which hasn't been often - a couple ski trips is all).

- Mark

beetlebug62 · December 2000

...doesn't need AWD. The DSC will be much more advantageous for you.

bobmrly · December 2000

I've just recently been shopping for a BMW 325ic and found the best price in the Miami area from www.greenlight.com. Most dealerships were only going to come down a few hundred from MSRP, but greenlight gave me a really good deal. I'm getting about $1900.00 off sticker. I ended up ordering a 325 coupe with metallic paint, leather, xenons, indash cd, and premium package. I've found it better than other car buying services because they actually tell you the exact price you will pay for the car as you are choosing the options, rather than getting back to you in a day or so with a dealer offer. I asked my sales rep and he said that they pre-negotiate with local dealers and can therefore offer the exact price of the car when you are specing it out.

However, I am curious about the leatherette seats. I got leather but I'm reading on the board that leatherette is just as good, if not better, than real leather. Does anyone have any input on this?

markjenn · December 2000

Another FAQ.

Highly personal decision, with a touch of political correctness debate with respect to animal rights. About the only thing that is universal is that people who have leather say it is worth every penny, and people who have 'ette say that it they wouldn't have gotten the leather if it was free.

Virtually everyone agrees that the 'ette looks almost like leather and is easier to maintain, while leather is the "real thing" and smells good. Lots of leather proponents also mention that it seems ridiculous to penny-pinch on a $35K car and get "fake leather". There is also a somewhat shaky concensus that 'ette seems to look better in black or dark colors. So if you get a sand or other light color, perhaps this might tip the balance toward leather.

You really need to look at both closely at the dealer before deciding.

FWIIW, I went with black 'ette in a white wagon. And to give you my stictly personal perspective, I don't view $1500 as 4% of $35K or another $20/month. I view it as a new carbon fiber mtn bike or $20K in my kids' college fund in ten years.

- Mark

josephl526 · December 2000

I have the manual sport seats and love them. I am 6'2" and 170lbs. It did take me a few days to get the seats adjusted just right and I have never changed them since. I also have dead cow (leather). I never understand all the talk about the extra up keep it takes to care for leather. My guess is most of us spend a bit of time caring for the exterior of the car. What is another ten minutes a month? Everytime I condition the seats the interior smells brand new again. I personally like the feel of the leather over the leatherette. I have a thirty year old Jag with original leather and it still looks great. Just my two cents.

larryintn · December 2000

I'm sure you've seen what happens to leather that isn't well cared for. Everyone has to decide for themselves how much effort they're going to put into maintaing their car. If you know that you'll keep with the conditioning then that certainly would make leather more attratice for you.

I condition my vinyl a couple of times per year at best so that makes leatherette much more attractive for me.

I think Mark sumarized the situation very well. The leather is very nice but the leatherette is a very good alternative for those so inclined.

brislance1 · December 2000

I make at least two trips a year from my home in the northern plains to my home in Arizona. The AZ roads seem to have a lot of sand and small stones on them. Because of this, I bought a bra from the dealer when I picked up the car in June. I use it only for the long trips back and forth. I know that one should never leave a wet bra on a car for any length of time for fear of paint fade.

Question: How long can one keep a wet bra on the car without worrying about paint fade? If it should rain at the beginning of the trip, can it be left on for two days until I get to my destination?

I would appreciate a response from anyone knowledgeable about this problem. Thanks.

div2 · December 2000

If your SO insists on wearing a bra, ask her to make sure it is dry prior to removing it.

reubencahn · December 2000

I have the HK and I would get it again. It is a definite improvement over the stock stereo. But it's not great. The Bose setup in my wife's A4 is much, much better. If you're an audiophile, you won't be satisfied. On the other hand, if you want decent sound and can't be bothered with the time and expense of aftermarket stereo work, it's a decent option.

stokdgs · December 2000

I have used car bras for years and never had a problem. It would not be good to leave it on for extended periods of time, though, the dampness under it is the big prob to the paint over a period of time. Then there is the "fade" factor to consider between the newer unexposed, paint to the rest of the hood. If you only use it a couple of times a year, thats not bad at all. I had a heck of time with the BMW version on my '01 325 last night, pretty lousy fit, but I need it to go to Texas this weekend, so Im stuck with it. The best Ive ever had are from Beverly Hills Motoring, (BHMA.com) and believe that Colgan makes them. Same with their car covers.
Ill be passing through AZ and you are right about the rocks and sand, etc.. At times, it can be literally a sandstorm of major proportions out there on I10.
DanF

lechica · December 2000

The dealer is charging $499 for the dealer prep fee... I thought there was a law passed in the early 90's that the consumer did not have to pay for this anymore - they can waive this, right? I know of another BMW dealer in the Fort Lauderdale area which only charges $299 - What's the lowest I can get this - or not pay for it all.

reubencahn · December 2000

It's BS. Or more to the point, it's just dealer profit. On every car I've bought in the last 10 years, it's either been eliminated or after we agreed on a total price, it was backed out. It doesn't matter how you deal with it. Only the total matters.

larryintn · December 2000

I bought from Athens BMW in Athens, GA and didn't pay any prep fee. It's completely up to the dealer.

very_likeable · December 2000

Any "Fee" to watch out for is the "Doc" fee, often added on the the sales contract, but rarely explained. It is just more profit for the dealer. In Utah, they tried to add on a $249 Doc fee and I caught it. They said "we have to charge you that" and I said "then I can't by the car". They backed down this time, but not always. In California (much more civilized) the maximum Doc fee is $45.

louiepk · December 2000

This question is mostly a matter of preference. I am considering two issues: sport vs. non-sport and 325 vs 330. Obviously, for me, Sport package on a 330 is the most ideal. However, if I had to cut costs a bit and decide on a 325 sport or 330 non-sport, I'm wondering what will be better for me. Do you think the 330 non-sport is still sporty enough on the road that cutting out the sport package would be well justfied? What option would you choose, and why? Thanks.

xman18 · December 2000

i forgot to mention to some that when i was at the BMW dealership this week that i saw a memo on the salesperson table (which he hadnt read yet...cause i asked)...and it stated that effective January 1, 2001 that destination charge for BMW would go from 570.00 to 645.00. Not a big deal just wanted to give those who are shopping a heads up that they may start seeing this number.

markjenn · December 2000

Dealer Prep: Reiterating what others have said....Dealers are free to charge you anything you like. And you are free to walk out the door and take your business elsewhere. There are no rules or regulations on this sort of thing. What matters to you is what it costs you out the door and this is what you should be negotiating. If they want to tack on a $500 fee for this or that gets negotiated away later to make me feel more like a wheeler/dealer - I couldn't care less. If you're buying a car in reasonable supply (say a 325i sedan) you really should be able to get this car at a large discount off MSRP, with no extra fees.

On exception on the fees issue. Many markets do have an legitimate fee called "regional advertising" or something like this - it is a fee that the car dealer does pay to BMW for each sale to cover the cooperative advertising in the area. Now it is completely negotiable like everything else, but if you are attempting to bargain a dealer up from a hard-core invoice price, it is a fee that the dealer pays and this may make it a bit more difficult to get that rock bottom few percent over invoice deal. Good luck.

325 SP vs. 330 non-SP: Basically it boils down to whether you like a car to go like hell in a straight line or go like hell around the corners. I might add that it costs $3500 less to go like hell around corners than in a straight line. In my eyes, this makes the SP a bit of a bargain and the 3.0L engine a bit overpriced. But it is all in what you want the car to do for you. FWIIW, I went 325 SP. And good luck with your decision too.

- Mark

lechica · December 2000

Good Deal - gee that's a great deal your getting.
I'm getting CD/Metallic paint/moon roof, automatic,cruise control and ette,for $29,878 plus tax,title (still working on the prep fee) I'm not being charged a doc fee...

Thanks everyone for the information - I get my car on Wednesday. I'll let you all know.
Thanks

rascal8 · December 2000

Question: If I order a 325 next June for Euro delivery first week in September (yes, a long agonizing wait) I would be ordering a 2002 model, correct ? I think BMW's model year ends about June, so I would rather order a 2001 model and get a better price; however, it appears I would have to order a 2002 since the car would be built in July/Aug. Any thoughts ? Thanks.

stokdgs · December 2000

I recently took delivery of an '01 325I with SP and PP, 5-spd, and the ride is just wonderful! Not harsh, to one rider, it felt like "floating" over bumps, etc., on the freeway. But as Markjenn stated, when you hit hard cornering, the car tracks absolutely great through it and doesnt go through alot of body motion. To me, its the best of both worlds. I dont care to autocross, etc., where you would want more of the M3 ride which I hear is considerably harder. For the 17" wheels and tires, that are 8" wide on the 325, vs the 7.5" wide (front) and 8.5" wide (rear) on the 330, I decided to stick to the one-size 325I and not have to think about buying different size tires down the road. I also drove non-SP 325I and found the ride very stable too. Im a more performance oriented enthusiast, so the SP appealed to me more than say the normal enthusiast. Dont get me wrong, though, everyone who buys BMW seems to be very very happy and enthusiastic about their ride..
Good luck, you will not be disappointed !
DanF

footprints · December 2000

It was advised to me that the standard 325i has better handling on either snow or wet conditions than the 325i Sp. Is this fact? If so would it be best not to consider it as an option or are there ways that would make the 325i Sp handle better in these conditions?

david160 · December 2000

I would welcome comments from anyone who has chosen the Spartanburg SC delivery option. Is the "driving school" experience worth much?

telarium7 · December 2000

I'm considering purchasing a BMW 325xi within the next month or two. There are a few concerns of mine, however. First, I am fairly new to the car market - but am well versed with BMWs. I am not terribly versed with availability, though. Are there delays in getting a 325xi? (We'll say all standard options at this point) I've talked to numerous dealerships in and around my area and they don't appear to be concerned with availability. Should I be worried about the time-frame? Any answers appreciated!

Thanks,

Brad

david160 · December 2000

Thanks for your comments re: the Spartanburg experience and best wishes on a speedy, and full, recovery.

very_likeable · December 2000

Another alternate to the 325/330 is a used, low mileage M3. That's what I bought. There are a flood of M3's coming off lease now and can be had for around $30K. My 97' Coupe had 20K miles and was in showroom like condition and still in factory warranty. Once you drive one, you'll know what BMW is really all about.

pvanmaan · December 2000

I have the opportunity to by a low mileage 1990 325 (under 50K miles) in mint condition. What should I look out for?

driver36 · December 2000

I have been reading some of the post here and they are very helpful!
I am finalized on a 325i with sp/cd/leather. The salesman telling me that it doesn't include with cruise control on the above combination.
I must order the pp to get the cruise control. Is he correct? Your help would be much appreciated!

martin13 · December 2000

no, you don't need to have pp or sp to get cruise. My 2001 325i sedan's only option is the Cruise control (can you believe it?). I think it cost $475 (comes w/ audio controls, too).

Climate control, on the other hand, is only an option with PP, from what I was told.

mtbh2oski · December 2000

Has anyone installed an aftermarket CD changer that can easily connect to the stock system ... without paying the dealer to do it?

bmwdoc · December 2000

I am in the process of ordering a 2001 325xi and havent yet decided on a few options. I am considering purchasing the Xenox low beam headlamp package(which requires the fog light package(including heated side mirrors and washer jets)) and the upgraded Harmon Kardon stereo. If anyone has an opinion on the quality and/or value of these I would appreciated hearing from you.The MSRP for Xenons and fog package totals $760, and the MSRP for the HK stereo is $675.

boontan · December 2000

I am new to this forum and I would appreciate any feedback on the BMW328i which I am considering of buying. I have test driven the car and I like its handling, sporty performance and safety features. However, I heard from my friends that BMW328 is quite costly to maintain (as compared to Japanese cars such as Nissan Maxima, Camry V6, etc.). I know it is a different car but low to moderate maintenance is one of my criteria as well. Thanks

markjenn · December 2000

Yes, on average a BMW 3-series will cost more to maintain than an equivalent Camry or Accord. But not that much more and certainly while the car is in warranty, maintenance costs are very, very low so the difference vanishes in the noise.

Beyond warranty, a BMW will run a bit more due to higher parts prices, higher labor charges, and the fact that BMWs cater to a more exclusive audience with more money. I'd judge the increase to be perhaps 25-40% more but this is just my seats of the pants guess.

So if low to moderate maintenance is your #1 priority in a car, I'd judge you can do better in a Camry. But a BMW isn't that much more and if you work out the numbers over the life of the car, it may be a very small cost for driving a car you like much better. And if you are buying used, your selection of the right car may be far more important than whether it is a BMW or a Toyota.

- Mark

breeze5 · December 2000

I am considering buying a BMW 325xi but alas, i took a test drive on a Passat GLX and was left gaping at the option.

1)Passat Road handling is as good as a BMW.
2)More roomy and lot of trunk space, compared to a BMW which is rather cramped.
3)Fully loaded and just 31,500 (MSRP), costs 6,000 less than the BMW.

So am i just paying 6000 more for the brand name.. or is there something i am missing about BMW ?

mtl3 · December 2000

I had the same quandry last year. However, the subtle differences in handling(mostly from the rwd) tilted me toward the Bimmer. Also, VW has a persistant quality control issue.

But, if you get a good one, it's an excellent choice. Enjoy.

hwijaya · December 2000

Hi. I am new to this forum. I am considering to buy 1999 323iA. The dealer told me that it is "Certified Pre-Owned". However, the mileage is quite high (53K). The price is S26K. The car is not a premium or sport, just basic. May I know any opinion about the price? Is it a good deal? And, how much is the maintenance for 60K miles? Thank you so much in advance for the response. I really appreciate it.

breeze5 · December 2000

Hmm.. thats what all the people told me. Go for the BMW ! whereas i personally feel i wil be more comfortable in a Passat. No doubt the RWD sure has a Peppy ride and feel to it. But just wondering if i should shell out that much money for a small car.. i aint rich enough

pvanmaan · December 2000

I have the opportunity to by a low mileage 1990 325 (under 50K miles) in mint condition. What should I look out for?

and931917 · December 2000

I am considering buying the 2001 or 2002 Audi A4 or the BMW 325i. What is the advantage of the BMW to the A4

pinking2 · December 2000

While in Florida over the weekend, BMW dealers were running a television promotion on a 325i Lease. With $2500 down, 10k per year and a 36 month term, the monthly payment was $319. Is this their normal lease term on this car? I was considering a 3-year old 528i, but something new, with minimal investment leans me toward this (my first BMW) Any thoughts?

jimmalo · December 2000

Sales person at a local BMW dealership told me that the Sahara beige metallic has been dropped. Has any one else heard this news?

ronmendel · December 2000

Leasers beware! Today I leased a 325Ci for full list (Silver/Gray Leather, SP, PP, Xenon, Heated seats, Steptronic, CD) MSRP 43,860. BMW quoted a BMW N.A. lease factor of .00459 (11%) and a 60% residual. As a "tier 1" customer (strong credit) I deserved a much better rate, but BMW said that was the best they had. I contacted RobertR@autoleasedirect.com and he gave me a MUCH BETTER lease, saving me about $4,000!

.00344 (8.25%) and 56% residual lowered the monthly payment by $50 and the residual by $2000. They FedEx'd the check to the dealer in one day.

It wasn't enough that I was paying BMW full list, but the dealer wanted another $4000 in pure profit besides. Learn the details about leasing and always check with a thirdparty Lease Company.

-Ron Mendel

ron@superiorsoftware.com

steve1526 · December 2000

BMW is subsidizing this lease deal in the NYC area as well, until the end of the year. It is an inviting lease number, but the car they are offering has none of the packages most people prefer to get with the 3 series such as cruise control, heated seats, climate control, Harmon Kardon radio, steptronic transmission etc. Also, many leasing "experts" recommend putting $0 down on a lease, which, in this case would boost the price to around $394/month. Good luck!

crikey · December 2000

Check out the most recent issue of Car and Driver. They had a comparo on 6 sport sedans: Saab 9-3, Lexus IS300, Audi A4, BMW 325i, Volvo S60 T5 and MB C240. BMW 325i won. Here are their results:

6 - Saab
5 - MB C240
4 - Volvo S60 T5
3 - Lexus IS300
2 - Audi 2.8 A4
1 - BMW 325i

This might give you a good idea what the Audi and BMW are like.

holeinone · December 2000

Before I embarrass myself at the dealer, can someone tell me whether it is commonly acceptable to cancel an order? Would there be penalties?

A separate question: can one tell black leather and leatherette on the 3 Series? My dealer showed me the supposedly black leather on an exec car and to me it's identical to the leatherette I saw in the showroom. How can I tell if the dealer is telling the truth or he just want me to buy the car that is on its way in?

dhanley · December 2000

Well, IMO, the 325 is quite a bit of a better handler then the passat, but it might be hard to discern from a short city test drive. But it's not a thing you can argue.. Good handling is very subjective. But i recently took my 328i over some windy mountian road, going a mite fast, and it was the most fun behind-the-wheel expereience of my life, better than when i drove a winston cup car.

I think if you spend considerable time with, and carefully examine each car you will see where the extra $6000 goes. But you might not, and that's ok too. The passat is surely a fine car, and if you think it's a steal, you should get it and be happy. I partially got the 328 because i knew whatever else i'd get i'd always look at the 328's and think "if only."

and391: a4 vs 325. Tough, i thought about it a lot. The a4 is cheaper, has a nicer interior, and has quattro. But the BMW seems better put together, more reliable ( less complexity ) and is a lot more fun to drive.

holeinone: i can tell the difference between leather and leatherette, and i like the leather more, so i got it, but if you can't tell, might as well save your money, and lower your maintenence ( leather requires more care ). If it's a money limit issue ( not that you might not have it, but have a top $ figure in mind ), i might spring for cruise/sunroof/etc instead.

dave

mtl3 · December 2000

Well, there you go. You've answered your own question. If I didn't have the concerns regarding the make, I'd be on a Passat like stink on somthing.

They have a lot of amenities, handle well, roomy and if you're a performance person, the engines and chassis are easily upgraded.

It's like the folks who don't feel the Passat's worth the difference between it and a well dressed Camry or Accord. If it's not there for you, you shouldn't spend the money. You just won't enjoy it.

Good luck with your purchase.

BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

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