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BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

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Comments

  • drcrdrcr Member Posts: 87
    Just test drive them. I looked and drove them all.

    The TL - S was nice. Feels (and looks for that matter) like a fast accord. Not a very sporty feel. Type s has a Similar ride (feel for the bumps) to the 325 sport. Handleing feel more confident w/ the 325.

    The marble interior on the TL S is definitly a no no. In the TL I felt like it was a loaded Accord V6 and it wasn't as "driver focused" as the BMW.

    No doubt that the TL S will be reliable.

    Also read consumer reports. the 330 is the CR recomended lux sed buy. Both are rated strong for reliability. Depreciation is also very good on the 3 series. can't remember the TL

    In short, same as others suggested. Just drive both and the decision will be a simple one. For me it was a 325

    IMHO I felt that if I were to go the TL route, I would have saved the $ and just got a loaded Accord V6

    drcr
  • postoakpostoak Member Posts: 537
    Platypus - it occurs to me that you live in Austin, where it gets pretty hot, and you've got a couple of weeks experience now with the black leatherette interior. How are you living with it? Don't you go into meltdown when getting into the car in the daytime? Do you park in a covered garage for work? How is it on the drive home? I think you mentioned you had leather interiors before on a couple of cars so what has your experience with them been?

    Any other Texans out there who want to weigh in on the heat/leather/leatherette/cloth issue, please feel free to do so.
  • allanoallano Member Posts: 175
    I've owned both a BMW and a Honda product over 10 year intervals, although not at the same time, and found each to be quite reliable. Over those 10 years, the normalized (to the value of the dollar) cost of ownership was higher for the Honda because normal maintenance (i.e timing belt) and the pieces which failed on that car (i.e A/C condenser) were more costly than parts that failed on the BMW. Thus, I would personally not use reliability as a discriminate between the two cars.
    As far as resale value, check the price of used cars for each brand, relative to their new car cost, at Edmunds, kbb.com or nada.com and make up your own mind. My own unique experience is that I got $800 for a 10 year-old, 136K mile Honda (last year) but got 1/2 the purchase price of my 9 year old, 97000 mile BMW (back in the early 80s). It is hard to generalize.
  • postoakpostoak Member Posts: 537
    Platypus - it occurs to me that you live in Austin, where it gets pretty hot, and you've got a couple of weeks experience now with the black leatherette interior. How are you living with it? Don't you go into meltdown when getting into the car in the daytime? Do you park in a covered garage for work? How is it on the drive home? I think you mentioned you had leather interiors before on a couple of cars so what has your experience with them been?

    Any other Texans out there who want to weigh in on the heat/leather/leatherette/cloth issue, please feel free to do so.
  • drcrdrcr Member Posts: 87
    If you get a basic 325, the interior will be somewhat bland.

    I have the grey leather/wood/moon/sport(seats) and have received nothing but compliments on how nice it is. Wood goes all around through the rear. Oh. the interior lighting is nice. it has lights for the rear seats also standard now. the dim on/off adds a nice touch. The red/orange glow is spectacular. side note: the new Acura RSX (integra) has gone to an orange instrument back glow

    Nice feature on the TL is that the armrest height adjusts up and down.
  • erricksonerrickson Member Posts: 130
    Are you talking about a Honda lawnmower? lol....a Civic?...or did you mean $8000!

    I had a 1994 Accord EX with 125K that I just sold for $7800, and I probably could have gottem more for it!
  • postoakpostoak Member Posts: 537
    Platypus - it occurs to me that you live in Austin, where it gets pretty hot, and you've got a couple of weeks experience now with the black leatherette interior. How are you living with it? Don't you go into meltdown when getting into the car in the daytime? Do you park in a covered garage for work? How is it on the drive home? I think you mentioned you had leather interiors before on a couple of cars so what has your experience with them been?

    Any other Texans out there who want to weigh in on the heat/leather/leatherette/cloth issue, please feel free to do so.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Another factor for leasing a new car ever 3 years or so compared to buying every 6 years or so; statistically, you will have more downtime during the second 3 year period (regardless of whether you are driving a Lexus or a Trabant). My time is worth money, simple as that.

    In my case, I own a small business so the lease is paid for with pre-tax income, given that my wife and I pay WELL over 40% of our income in taxes of some sort (including FICA), that in and of itself pays for more than the difference in the "Extra Cost" of the lease. Factor in less time lost due to downtime for maintenance (even when "Free Loaners" are available, there is still time lost) and the growth of my (company) money not tied up in the form of a down payment and higher monthly payments, and I come out WAY ahead by leasing.

    Quite simply, when I lease a car, I put down the bare minimum and go from there.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo

    P.S.
    The Illinois lease tax thing may be one of the few reasons why I am glad I do not live there anymore.
  • erricksonerrickson Member Posts: 130
    I live on the other side of Houston from you, and can speak to the black leather interior / exterior. After having it a week, I can say that heat is not a problem, BUT I do park in a parking garage during the day - and home garage at night...AC keeps the car cool while driving, but last weekend we went to the mall, and left it out in the parking lot. I have to admit, it was a might bit toasty when we returned! (My 2 year old flat out refused to get in!)

    I tried to tell my daughter how great the car looked, but she didn't seem to be interested! :(
  • mule714mule714 Member Posts: 22
    Does anyone have comments on the navigation package? I'm looking at leasing a 330i 4dr auto, PP, cold weather, xenon. Is the nav package any good? Found a lease that's $2500 under MSRP. Another car I was comparing is the TL-S because it has all the extras I wanted. Certainly didn't drive like the 330i though.
  • postoakpostoak Member Posts: 537
    Thanks, that's just the type of feedback I was looking for. So you're saying you aren't aware of any sweating on the back of your clothes when you leave the garage after work? And you have black leather (not leatherette)?
  • allanoallano Member Posts: 175
    Yes, it was a 1990 Civic Wagon but it did not owe me anything. Originally paid $10,100 for it and might have returned $1000 to $1200 for a trade if you believe the nada and kbb sites. It was also at its next maintance cycle for the timing belt, tires and exhaust system. The inside fan stopped working at positions 1 and 2, the front-left spring was broken 3/4 turn from the bottom and rust was poping out at wheel wells and door panels (I live in the Northeast). The tape player had quit a long time ago and the right speakers cut in and out with heat and bumps. Air conditioner still worked. It also had a history of eating (Bosch) alternators (3 in 4 years). Although my fault, it left me stranded four days before I traded the car when the original distributor cap and rotor failed to deliver the hot stuff to the plugs. I liked the car a lot and have no ill feelings but now that both children have graduated from college, I can enjoy a BMW again.
  • drcrdrcr Member Posts: 87
    How many think Brave is begging his wife to stop at an Internet cafe so he can catch up?
  • midtowneastmidtowneast Member Posts: 49
  • hippo168hippo168 Member Posts: 115
    I agree with all of you, different people have different criteria, and should go for the one that's best for them... There are lengthy discussion on this topic in almost every car sites. So we dont need to go thru the details.

    My concerns on leasing are that the car is not YOURS, and more importantly, the mileage limit. For me, I travel around 300-350miles a week, that's 15000+ a year. That means I cannot go anywhere else but to work! :) Unless I want to pay for the extra miles.

    Anyway, I'm scheduled to pick up my car at the end of August, it is going to be a long wait...
  • mule714mule714 Member Posts: 22
    Digital tape is still heavily used in professional recording. Also, many people tape live concerts with DAT. I've got an old Sony DAT head unit. Thinking about putting it into my classic t-bird. Not easy to find, but here's one - http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1249096286
  • erricksonerrickson Member Posts: 130
    Nope, back has been dry thus far. The car is completely shaded all day, and the a cools it off real quick when I first get in... and I do have the black leather. Same is true in the morning in my garage (but obviously the hemp is much more comfortable).

    Also spoke to my salesperson last week. He had mentioned that leather was better than leatherette when it comes to sweating. He called and told me he witnessed it first hand the other day when he had to pick up a car in New Or leans (with leatherette) and drive it to Lafayette. He said he had to change shirt when he got to Lafayette I/I the back of his shirt was soaked.

    I know all this stuff gets subjective, because now we're talking about sweating, and that is DEFINITELY something that varies from one person to another. Nonetheless, I hope this info helps.
  • jk26jk26 Member Posts: 27
    I am looking at a 325i with a few added features and want to know what a fair price is. I know about $1500 over invoice is about right from what I have been reading. So here are my options

    invoice=$26,520 includes, cd, heated seats, and wood trim, met paint
    MSRP=$29,310

    Should I shoot for something around $27,800? How high is too high--28K?

    --JK
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Brad,
    I HIGHLY suspect that Brave1heart took a laptop along on the sly, however, he only has time for "Lurk Mode" while wifey is asleep. ;-)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • emerald1xemerald1x Member Posts: 1
    Hi all,

    Enjoy reading through the posts daily.... this is my first time posting. Firstly my new 325i should be delivered mid August.....

    White, SC, Leather, Wood, Premium sound & Xenon

    Quick question...... do I get the armrest with the sports package?? In one brochure I saw it looked like it wasn't included. Thanks in advance.

    emerald1x
  • aaron330iaaron330i Member Posts: 136
    Do any of you who live in Texas and have black interior have your windows tinted? I plan on having mine tinted as I think the UVA/B protection will keep the car a tad cooler while in the sun.

    Fortunatly...I go from garage to parking garage most days, so it's not as big a deal. It's those "other" trips that are the killer though.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    On the 325i, the only way to get an arm-rest from the factory is to order the Premium Package. However, it can be ordered from either Circle BMW or Pacific BMW online and installed by you or your dealer (for an extra charge of course). Your dealer can also provide you with said arm-rest, however they may charge you a premium price.

    You might try to negotiate the arm-rest and installation prior to picking up your car.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • platypusplatypus Member Posts: 192
    Actually, I've only had my car for a week as of today, but I'll offer my experiences.

    New 330i - silver exterior - black leatherette interior - parks in a garage all day except when driven to public places - no problems thus far with excessive heat

    Z3 - light blue exterior - black leather interior - when parked outside for extended periods of time (all day at work for example), and the seats were exposed to direct sunlight, I could not set my back against the seats until the car cooled down, especially when wearing a thin shirt such as a fine dress shirt - it was literally scorching - I expect the 330i would be the same given a similar situation

    Odyssey - dark blue exterior - grey leather interior - Car gets hot when parked outside, but not so much that I can't sit on the seats. I think grey makes a big difference vs. black.

    Integra - dark grey exterior - grey cloth interior - by far the easiset to sit in when it's hot outside - if you're really concerned about heat and like the look of cloth, then go for the cloth seats - they look pretty good from gurumike's pics.
  • jackbaronejackbarone Member Posts: 6
    I'm located in Atlanta and just got a lease deal for 36 om.; 15K miles/yr; 0 down; 330i - price of 635/month. Car includes premium & sport pkg, CD player, Xenon and metallic paint.

    Is this a good price? Also an identically optioned 325 was only $20 cheaper/month??????? Any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks!!
  • max93max93 Member Posts: 19
    A lower monthly payment leasing means I have that much more money to invest monthly. Knowing that I will give up the car after 30 months because I will move outside the U.S. after 30 months, on the surface makes leasing appear as the best deal. I wonder what negotiating room exists when closing on a lease and if leasing the BMW from other than the dealer is worthwhile. Thank for the responses!
  • jasonkureejiijasonkureejii Member Posts: 210
    At work, my car will be parked in a lot outside all day... any tinting experts here?... what would be the best solution in addition to some sort of tinting (green reflects more, does it not?) and the perennial windshield shade....
  • bmwwanterbmwwanter Member Posts: 1
    I am interested in buying or leasing a 325i sedan. I am just wondering what would be a good price for it with automatic transmission? The invoice price is 25095 and MSRP $27635 (add about 2000 for auto and CD player). Another question is probably most want to know but no one has asked. That is how much money you need to make a year to be able to afford a Bimmer like 325i. It came out in a conversation with my friend, he said that you need to make >3 time of the car cost to be able to afford driving that. Is that true?
  • trejos28trejos28 Member Posts: 93
    Living in Texas all my life, heat is heat. It's gonna feel hot regardless of the interior color or seat material when it's 100+ outside.

    P.S. Thanks for posting the pics...beautiful car.
  • bmwagonmasterbmwagonmaster Member Posts: 150
    Have to disagree with trejos. I live where it's as hot as Texas, and I find that the above formula works. The window tinting is especially effective. Check this link if you're interested in more info on tinting:

    http://www.autowindowtintings.com/main.cfm?action=home

    I had the Solarguard Quantum installed on all 7 windows of my wagon for about $200. My installer was the best and you can hardly tell its film and not factory tint. Also makes the car look even better--very tasteful, not "boyracer".
  • reubencahnreubencahn Member Posts: 102
    I live in Florida and when it's hot it doesn't matter what color your interior is. I think the exterior color does have some small effect. Tinting makes a major difference--more than any color choice. Go for the darker 28% on rear windows and the slightly lighter 32%(I think) on the front. I have Solarguard Quantum and am very happy with it.
  • bmwagonmasterbmwagonmaster Member Posts: 150
    You get the honor of being the first to post about the "official" fan recall! You can bet that we're going to be seeing and hearing alot about this in the press in days to come...
  • jasonkureejiijasonkureejii Member Posts: 210
    Thanks for the advice on window tinting.....
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    JackBarone,

    It is not surprising that the 330i has a similar lease payment to the 325i given the fact that they have a higher residual value. As far as a zero down monthly lease payment of $635 on a car with the msrp of $39,910, it sounds a little high. As a point of reference, I leased my 328i (msrp of $38,710) with about $700 down for $510 per month (39 months). The one difference is that I leased mine through BankOne instead of BMW Finance.

    Max93,

    There is plenty of negotiating room when leasing; when I leased my car, there was a $70 per month swing between the various lenders that my dealership offered me. You can also arrange your own financing from MANY lenders if you have the time to compare programs.

    BMWwanter,

    I have never heard of the 3x multiplier as a requirement. All the lender wants to know is will your cash flow cover your normal monthly expenses plus the car and insurance. If not, you have two options, a larger down payment or a co-signer (I think that some lenders allow co-signers on leases).

    Heat and car seats...

    While it is true that if it is hot outside, your car will be hot inside, the darker the color of the interior, the hotter it will be inside your car. It is a fact that dark colors absorb light and get hot. Want proof, park a white car and a black car next to each other on a sunny day, then after a while; place the palm of one hand on the roof of the black car and the other palm on the white car. I guarantee you that your hand on the black car will HURT, while the hand on the white car will sustain the heat fairly well. The same principle applies to the interior of a car as well. If you have tinted glass, that will help reduce the amount of light directly hitting the surfaces inside the car, and consequently, the interior will be cooler. The fact remains, all else being equal, the darker the interior, the hotter it will get inside a car when parked in the sun.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • deepdarkbluedeepdarkblue Member Posts: 33
    I am calling BMWNA every day now. I must be driving 'em nuts. Well, the car is already on a transport headed to my dealership. The BMW rep told me that my car only spent a day at the VPC (VPC time is usually 3-4 days). Plus, it was pulled off the ship the very morning it docked. It should be at my dealership as early as tomorrow and at the latest by Friday! Yowzaa!
    Tchoo--have you heard the latest on yours?

    Other issues:
    1) My dealer said that I should go w/ the key wheel locks b/c the keyless ones have the wrench that doesn't always work. I'm wondering if she's trying to squeeze extra bucks from me. Anybody have any experience w/ these. I know someone said that the keyless type are better.
    2) Is it necessary to buy an alarm, or is that just peace of mind? Does the chip in the key ensure that no one can start the car w/out it? Is it true that the car cannot be hot-wired? Curious and would like some advice.
    3) Should I go w/ Meguiar's car care products or Mothers? Recommendations?

    Sorry if these issues have already been hashed out.

    BTW, I just found out that a good friend of mine went out and bought a brand spankin' new 540i Sport. Man, what a lucky dude. 282 mean horses w/ a 5.8 0-60!
  • mule714mule714 Member Posts: 22
    Found this online. 330i (mostly loaded) for a 36 mos. lease at $549. Think I'm gonna go for it!!!


    http://www.leasebynet.com/specials.php

  • max63max63 Member Posts: 76
    was your car stick or steptronic. I have the same car with steptronic, stickered for $41,500. My lease is $565 including tax, 36 months and 15,000 miles (I did put 1900 down for drive offs). I would say if you are really putting Zero down, its not a bad deal, since every $1,000 equates to about $30 extra a month. If the sticker is less than 40 you might be paying too much. Much better to lease a 330 than a 325 due to the low money factor on the 330.
  • tchootchoo Member Posts: 93
    Man, these guys are fast. My dealer on the other hand hasn't even called me yet. So far I've been pretty disappointed with him, he's not rude or anything, just aloof. And he doesn't even remember me, I had to tell him who I was on 3 separate ocassions. Guess he won't be receiving a top satisfaction rating from me.

    1) I'm going ask for free mats and the keyless wheel locks thrown in. Feedback has been that its easy to lose the key.
    2) I'm not buying the alarm, but I'm going to try to get them to activate the blinking clown nose as a deterrent thing. I got Lojack installed, its well worth it ($595) and it lowers your insurance.
    3) I've been using Meguiar's shampoo and I like it. I also have their wax. They seem fine, but I have never tried Mother's.
  • postoakpostoak Member Posts: 537
    Thanks for everyone's input on this subject. Since I've taken the time to do the research and learn that cloth is available I think I am going to take Platypus' advice and go with the cloth. I admit I also talked to a friend who has just had leather in his and his wife's car and has gone back to cloth in both. He was pretty emphatic about it. I DO agree that an intermediate solution (over black leatherette) would be grey leather, but I am pretty sure the cloth will be better and $1400 cheaper.

    As for the window tinting, I almost hate to admit it but I HATE cars with tinted windows because it interferes with my ability to drive enthusiastically! I can't see through the car to see what is going on up ahead (no big deal these days with all the SUVs, but it used to be) and I can't get a good look at the driver's face to learn his intentions. For that reason, I would never go with the tinted windows, even though from all I hear, it really helps.
  • gurumikegurumike Member Posts: 442
    A 330i lease with no down (other than first & DMV) off an MSRP of nearly $40, $635 sounds about right for a 3 year
  • varigvarig Member Posts: 99
    Gurumike : I did not know that cloth seats are an option. I would prefer cloth to leatherette and I could also save a few $$ by not going leather. How difficult is it to order cloth? Do dealers have cloth samples so I can feel it. How would you describe the cloth seats? Also, at what point did the cars begin receiving new fans and the "new, new" steering?
    Thanks
  • gurumikegurumike Member Posts: 442
    Easy to order, if your dealer will do it for you. It's option code E3AT, in the case of my anthracite cloth. I believe it also comes in grey or sand. No samples of cloth are available but don't worry, it's about as good as cloth has ever been (remember, we're talking BMW here!).
    Some time in April saw the Bosch fan parts replace Seimans at the factory.

    New (new) steering in September, but I wouldn't let that one influence a decision.
  • aaron330iaaron330i Member Posts: 136
    ...distributor. Real nice guy, he spent about two hours going over all the various products and demoing many of them.

    He has a 6 year old black Dodge Viper in his garage that looks gorgeous. Man that Zaino stuff rocks.

    Anyway, I'm 90 dollars poorer, but I'm all set.
  • carpevinocarpevino Member Posts: 24
    330i TSilver, PP, HK, Step, HeatSeats. I picked this up over a week ago and so far it is everything I ever expected and more! I crave the 5 speed but I know the Long Island Expressway will make the step the better choice. Some questions?

    Holding down the music note button for a few seconds displays "FLAT" on the radio. What does this mean? The manual doesn't explain it too well.

    Can the step be used to downshift for engine braking? Can you drive the step hard like a manual?

    Anyone have pricing for lojack?

    It's hard to keep up with the posts on this board. Has to be one of the most civilized and informative around. Great job!!
  • aaron330iaaron330i Member Posts: 136
    You're selling so soon!??! Oh no! I hope everything is all right.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Selling already? Are you moving up to the 330i or maybe even an M3? ;-)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • gurumikegurumike Member Posts: 442
    Flat just means that the bass, treble, fader and balance are all set to the middle. Like a reset button; the 5 and 7 series actually have a button just for flat.
  • alpine325ialpine325i Member Posts: 209
    When "Flat" appears, it only means that the bass and treble settings are returned to their "center" positions, now you can add or subtract bass and treble. When a piece of music is recorded in a studio it is mastered and duplicated "Flat" because if they add any bass or treble during duplication it would sound muddy or distorted (over EQ'ed) when you add your own bass and treble to the music, in other words, you would be doubling the amount of bass or treble to the music and creating alot of noise.
  • alpine325ialpine325i Member Posts: 209
  • dl7265dl7265 Member Posts: 1,381
    I have Silver/Grey Leather in Dallas area, and NO TINT. Last summer when it was 113f i do recall a little wetness on the back after being parked outside a while. However, the last cloth car i had it seemed as hot and longer to cool off do to the wetness staying in the cloth and the leather cooling off quickly. My friend has a triple black 325i conv with tint and black ETTE, i would say its definatly hotter than the Grey leather, wether its the color or the ETTE. I did not have a choice as is they dont make Grey ETTE, and the invoice i only paid $1200.00 to me for a 30k+ car i think that is reasonable plus i just had the car apraised and got like $850.00 for real leather , meaning its net cost was $350.00. But i know everyone had their limits too.

    Loaners: got my service loaner today a 3.0i Blue Z3 not what i was expecting lol

    Regards,
    DL
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