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Lexus ES 300/ES 330

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Comments

  • brian42smithbrian42smith Member Posts: 14
    bielen, thanks for posting the InsideLexis link. On that site, a flash-plug shows the head-lights on a bright red 2002 ES300 (click on the lamp). That may be the right color for this car. It looks much better than the early photos with the silver-blue color.
  • jji7363jji7363 Member Posts: 33
    We've been looking at new cars and have narrowed the search down to the 2002 A6 and the ES300. The comparisons between the ES300 and the A4 are a bit perplexing, but the A6 and the ES300 seem very similar - feature for feature. We'll wait until both are available this fall then take a drive in each and decide. Dealers' willingness to discount (or lack thereof) may tip the scales in Audi's favor.

    The main flaw of the current ES is the lack of headroom. Any word of whether Lexus has fixed that problem? I haven't seen inside dimension figures.
  • mrrogersmrrogers Member Posts: 391
    www.lexus.com has several nice pictures of the 2002 ES300.
  • ripinrocketripinrocket Member Posts: 157
    jji,

    Gotta sit in it to see headroom. But the car has grown in height by about 3", if I remember right. That should translate to more headroom.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    As I have told several of you, extended comparisons belong on the Comparisons - Sedans vs. Sedans board. And as I have mentioned to two of you in a separate discussion, extended arguments do not belong in Town Hall, period. Either just agree to disagree, ignore each other or take it off-line, please.

    Thank you.

    Pat
    Host
    Sedans Message Board
  • gambhirgambhir Member Posts: 64
    I own a 200o paltinu edition with 15K miles--I installed my own alpine 7 inch DVD nav --being platinum it had all the wood goodies though not as much as the new one--I am not compelled to say hey this is a steal at 38K--two things--(a) i would wait for a coach or platinum edition-you really get a great value (b) I would wait for teh hp to go up--I have sneaky suspicion it will go up as earlya s next yr --maybe an ES330 with 225/235 hp--did someone compare the Lexus numbers on the site on 0-60? The 2001 sprints at 7.8 but 2002 is at 8.1 official estimates--HMMMMM
    Remember earlier also ES300 went up from 19o hp to 210--- I think it will be a better value at 34-35K loaded with 230+ hp and a platinum/coach exclusivety
    My personal advice is no need to rush--waiting will get a better bargain
  • raychuang00raychuang00 Member Posts: 541
    After looking at the new 2002 ES300, I've come to one conclusion: not my cup of tea.

    The car reminds me of a Dodge Stratus as styled by Toyota. :-/ And the fact they didn't really improve the output of the engine means the car will not compare well against the Acura TL.

    Now, if Toyota/Lexus had bumped up the engine displacement to 3.2 liters and likely got 235-240 bhp, -then- we're talking about a car worth having. :-)
  • lenscaplenscap Member Posts: 854
    Waiting for a car just gets you nothing. The only thing I would wait for is a redesign, which just happened.

    What if you hold out hoping for more hp and then it doesn't happen? Then you've waited for nothing. Or maybe a discount will come around, but it's offset by a price increase.

    And the Coach/Platinum editions, if they even have one, will only come out after several years once interest in the car declines as it gets further into its model cycle. By that time you might as well wait for the next generation.

    I say if you like the car now buy it.
  • s852s852 Member Posts: 1,051
    If you try to buy a new model within the first weeks, you pay more because of the novelty of the new model and the fact that production is not up to speed and supplies will therefore be low.
    If you wait for the initial rush to pass and factories to start pumping the cars out at full tilt, then there will be more choice and better price.
    You also get to see results of government and insurance crash testing before commiting to the purchase and are more likely to avoid the hassles of any recalls that may happen.
    If you wait a whole year, you get the benefits of any fixes and improvements to problems that turn up the first year. You also get to read hundreds of posts about problems owners discover that are not apparent on a 10 minute test drive and may not be fixed until the next year, if ever.
  • kjookjoo Member Posts: 27
    I LOVE IT BREATH TAKING
  • ruskiruski Member Posts: 1,566
    I'd forgive the exterior look if the engine made more HP.


    Also someone mentioned before that the exterior looked like a Peugeot 607. I think so too. Check out the Peugeot:


    http://uk.cars.yahoo.com/010119/3/27tw.html


    http://www.cars.ru/catalog/peugeot/607.html

  • ctrowland1ctrowland1 Member Posts: 31
    There is a resemblance to the 607. At least the front. I don't like it either.
  • 3pointstar3pointstar Member Posts: 45
    The design of the '02 ES300 has grown on me. If you've already seen spyshots of the '02 Camry, I think the ES300 design severs any discussion about it looking like the Camry. The Camry is edgy and rotund, the ES300 is sleek and refined.

    I get a kick reading postings about the ES300 not having enough power than a TL or I30. If that's the case, QUIT YOUR WHINING and go buy an Acura or Infinity! You'll get a cheap and gaudy interior with less than stellar customer service with both. I had and got rid of the current I30 and it screamed "cheap" everytime I looked at the circular analog clock in the middle of the dashboard. I also couldn't tell it apart from a Maxima.
  • rwong1998rwong1998 Member Posts: 38
    hmm, maybe you should not be so quick and hasty on your opinion (pro or con) of the ES300 and reserve your judgement on it until you actually see it in person and drive it. Maybe if you spent some more time doing research on a car before you made any rash decisions you wouldn't have bought your I30 in the first place.
  • ved3ved3 Member Posts: 43
    How's everybody doing?

    first off, thanks Edmunds for being one of the
    first to present the roadtest of the new ES.
    you guys are good!! can't find it in any
    competitor's site accept familycar.com

    I think the all new ES is a serious stylish
    statement by Lexus inside and out. Sure it
    may not be as revolutionary and groundbreaking
    as a MB, BMW, Audi, Bentley, Jaguars but it
    should compete well against other Japanese
    brands. right? As far as it being bland, Lexus
    cars have never been bland. perhaps only bland
    to those who wouldn't buy it anyway, regardless.
    and don't try to convince me that you're a lexus
    owner who thinks it's bland. how would I know?
    The corolla, camry, tercel, takoma and most
    other nonluxury, basic transportation cars of other brands are "bland". but luxury is a different league. Lexus showed some guts in
    this new ES design considering the fact that
    most ES buyers tend to be conservative whereas
    most other luxury makes, although may redesign
    their cars every few years, are very conservative
    in staying close to the previous designs. I give
    lexus at least this much credit.

    On the exterior, I would prefer a closer look to
    the previous generation ES. because that one
    really help personify the ES. Can't mistake it
    when parked next to other cars. Its elegance and
    a sense of luxury really stands out. does it look
    like a Peugot? perhaps a little but you can also
    say the Peugot looks like a Celica. you really
    have to see the whole picture to apreciate it.

    On the interior, now this is where lexus really
    excel. The ES truly moved upscale despite a price
    I suspect will remain competitive. It looks even
    better than most luxury cars costing thousands $$
    more. And it appears that lexus has raised the
    luxury standard "again" on smoothness and refinement. but we shall see.

    Overall, the competitions including MB, BMW 3
    series automatic sedan, Automatic A6, TL, I30
    don't have much to compete against the new ES.
    think about it. consider everything. look at the
    big picture.

    so the popular way to make oneself feel better
    and appear more in control is to try to downgrade
    a serious contender and that's the ES.

    3poinster,

    most of these people who think it looks bland or
    uqly wouldn't buy the ES regardless. The purpose
    of the whining may be to discourage those who
    are considering buying it. They're not the target
    audience. it shouldn't have any problem addressing
    the target buyers needs. especially after lexus
    makes some improvements like a chrome grille
    upfront.

    but seriously, it's great to see so many posts
    even from the competitors enthusiasts. everyone
    should be able to share their opinions and I just
    shared mine. that's democracy. everyone's presence here merely popularize the ES forum and
    ultimately the ES.

    Thanks again Edmunds.

    Take care everybody!
  • s852s852 Member Posts: 1,051
    Bland is an opinion. It is bland if a a buyer perceives it as bland. It does not require unanimous agreement.
    I think the rear looks slightly bland, but the front is beyond "bland." It is actually a a negative aspect to the car.
    A TL has bland styling that is kind of boring and too similar to an Accord, but it is not offensive or ugly like many view the looks of the the 2002 ES300's front end.
    The interior looks nice in the photos and, of course, being the newest design, it should be the smoothest and quietest in the class when it comes out. The aging design of the current 2001 ES300 has been bypassed in smoothness and driving feel by less expensive cars like the TL for the last few years.
    It would truly be shocking if the new 2002 ES300 would not be the smoothest and quietest since it will be the latest design and also the most expensive of the Japanese near-luxury cars when equipped normally.
    It is kind of ridiculous that leather seats and moonroof are still not standard equipment in a car like this. They make these features optional so that the base MSRP looks more competive against competing cars even though they know that 99% of the cars will be ordered with leather seats and moonroof at the very least.
  • bimmer4mebimmer4me Member Posts: 266
  • marcus216marcus216 Member Posts: 78
    Currently, I have a 1999 300M with about 50k. I will be looking to replace the car in the spring and the new ES 300 will be on by shopping list. I think the new design is looks fresh and elegant, in my opinion, much better than the old version. My objective for a car is an interstate cruiser because I log alot of highway miles annually. I want comfort, quiet and reasonable handling. My 300M is a good car, but lots of rattles and very noisy. More of a sports sedan versus a luxury sedan. Based on the limited reviews I have read on the ES, this car tilts toward the luxury side of the scale, which is perfect for me. Regarding the 210 horsepower engine, if it does 0 - 60 in around 8 seconds, that is more than enough power for 100% of my driving needs. The difference between 8.0 and 7.8 (the tested time for my 300 M)is negligible and I think the 300M is very powerful. If your main objective in a sedan is acceleration, than go buy a BMW or TL. You will sacrifice luxury for a bit more performance. Your call. I prefer the luxury of the Lexus.
  • ripinrocketripinrocket Member Posts: 157
    Good article in Motor Trend. There only real negative was the power *dificiency*.

    It looks good in Motor Trend though.
  • rogert3rogert3 Member Posts: 2
    Those who've been whinning about how ugly, bland, and hyundai-like, an so on... I think it just looks the most expensive of any japanese near-luxury models out there, and I don't see how this redesign is any bland/boring than the current model!! I've often heard that japanese cars are boring to look at or to drive and have no personality. Nevertheless, the 2002 ES300 is a REALLY FINE LOOKING automobile, in my opinion. No cars are perfect no matter at what price range, so buy what you can afford and feel comfortable with.
    Regards,
  • apakdapakd Member Posts: 2
    i am thinking of buying a lexus es 300 2002 but iam not sure if the new curtain airbag is safe for children who are sitting in the back .If anyone have this information please let me know.Thanks a lot.
  • brian42smithbrian42smith Member Posts: 14
    I haven't added up the comments on this forum, but it appears more people are disappointed with the styling on the 2002 ES300 than love it.

    I will reserve styling comments until I see the car in person. I was very disappointed initially, but have seen a few photos that show promise.

    My wife and I own two Lexuses (a 2000 LX470 and a 1999 RX300) and one Mercedes (98 E320). I couldn't disagree with you more ved3. I think everyone wants the same attributes in this vehicle - style, luxury, sport, quality, and value. That's what I want. I don't want a car that looks like every other boring car on the road or, as it relates to the ES300, like a Toyota Camry. I haven't seen the 2002 Camry, so I don't know if the ES300 looks like it or not.

    I assumed Lexus would design a car with stunning style. Since they haven't, in my opinion, I am less inclined to buy this car.

    Has anyone on this board seen this car in person. And, if you have, would you mind providing comments?
  • bcjacob1bcjacob1 Member Posts: 39
    I read the Edmunds article talking about the '02 ES300 nav sys stating this is 1 of the best systems out there....B/S

    We own a '00 TL w/ nav and '01 RX300 w/ nav. The TL nav system is mucheasier to use and has more info than the Lexus system. It's not even a close race.
  • tcpip1tcpip1 Member Posts: 121
    I know Acura uses the nav system made by Alpine. Does anyone know who makes the nav system for the new ES300/Camry?
  • fredvhfredvh Member Posts: 857
    Can anyone tell me why the prices for the ES300 have gone UP on carsdirect.com? I would think that now that the 2002 ES300 is out that the prices would have gone down. Their prices are approx. $1300 over invoice. Did a recent incentive expire or what?
  • s852s852 Member Posts: 1,051
    The 2002 ES300 is not going to be out until October.
  • ctrowland1ctrowland1 Member Posts: 31
    fredvh,
    I paid $500 over invoice for my Coach edition in March 2001. My dealer, Concord Lexus, told me invoice price was $30,600, not including destination. I called two other Lexus dealers to confirm invoice. Both said invoice was $30,600. So, I don't think they lied to me. I figure with the hold back, $600, I left $1,100 on the table. That's a little over 3%. I guess not to bad for a car in demand.
    The day I picked mine up, three other customers were picking up their new ES also. When I bought mine, end of first quarter, salesman was very eager to sell a car. I think the dealership was more concerned about moving volume rather than profit margin. They probably had ordered a "ton" of coach editions and wanted to move them so they could take advantage of "hold back".
    If the new design does not meet customer expectations, I suspect there may be a run on the existing ES inventory. Dealers may be less likely to deal. Don't know.
    I am glad I bought mine when I did. The new design does not appeal to me.

    Chip
  • dardson1dardson1 Member Posts: 696
    Go to your local shopping mall and notice most of the stores that remain year after year specialize in something..."Nothin' but Candles" or "T-Shirts by the Billions"...the ones that are really successful aim at one market segment and do it better than anyone else. Automobile makers (at least the ones that do well) all do it too. If you want the best no-nonsense basic sedan you buy an Accord or a Camry. If you want the same thing for a bit more $ with more power and sport, you buy a Maxima. If you want the biggest, most beefy, nine passenger hauler, you buy a Suburban. Lexus is known for an absolutely smooth, plenty quick, very quiet automobile with great reliability, good resale, best-in-the-business customer service, and a prestige nameplate. They have a large customer base who wants just what they have to offer. I'd be surprised if they changed direction in 2002. The name of the game is finding your audience and doing whatever it is you do better than anyone else...exactly what Lexus has done so far with the ES300.
  • fredvhfredvh Member Posts: 857
    Thanks for your information. I suspect we will see better prices as the introduction nears for the new ES300(October according to s852).
    I too do not like the new styling but then again I do not like a lot of the new styles. They seem to grow on you after a while though.
    How do you like your new Lexus? Have you had any problems? What kind of gas mileage are you getting on it?
  • ctrowland1ctrowland1 Member Posts: 31
    So far it's everything you hear about the Lexus experience. Dealer is top notch. 4200 miles, nothing has gone wrong. Checked mpg only once with about 1,000 miles on odometer, avg. 21.5mpg combined driving. That number should go up when engine breaks in.
    Couple other web sites you may want to check for invoice pricing. Autobytel.com and Carprice.com.
    Good luck!

    Chip
  • ripinrocketripinrocket Member Posts: 157
    tcpip1,

    Nippon-Denso makes the Nav system.
  • rwong1998rwong1998 Member Posts: 38
    it includes a few pictures I have not seen elsewhere


    http://www.canadiandriver.com/previews/02es300.htm

  • jimxojimxo Member Posts: 423
    If you don't care for the styling cues on the ES, consider the 2002 Camry XLE with Navigational system.


    http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=3971&n-156.178&sid=178

  • lievliev Member Posts: 93
    the es 300 2002 styling has the sporty look to it. but i somehow think the old style though boring but has more class in its look.

    anyways, i got a question. i had a 5K maintenance service on my car. do i t need to follow the schedule maintenance at every 7.5K (i prefer at least an oil change at 5K)? i could just have an oil change at 10K and then major routine maintenance at 15K, right? anyone has any idea?
  • ctrowland1ctrowland1 Member Posts: 31
    Don't know if this is proper board to discuss maintenance, but lets try until host tells us different. Lexus includes 1,000 and 7,500 check ups free. So take advantage of it and keep your Lexus under warranty.
    I to questioned the maintenance schedule. I change the oil on my cars every 3,000 miles, give or take a couple hundred. I called my Lexus service manager and asked about doing oil changes myself. He said that was fine, don't even need receipts. I'll keep mine anyway. He said the 15,000 marks were important to have done. (15,000, 30,000, 45,000 etc.)
    Does anybody else have comments on this?
    Thanks,

    Chip
  • mrrogersmrrogers Member Posts: 391
    I used to think oil changes at 3,000 to 5,000 miles were a good idea. Then I started reading Edmund's Town Hall topic,"Engine Sludge". Now I think oil changes at 3,000 to 5,000 miles are a GREAT idea. Every car, no matter how good, seems to have an achilles heel, and the RX300 is no different. The engine really needs clean, fresh oil!
  • hayabusahayabusa Member Posts: 26
    All the reviews I've read till now said nothing about the styling of 2002 ES being ugly or bland... In fact they call it daring, sleek, and stuff. I think you have to see the ES in person before judging it.
  • ctrowland1ctrowland1 Member Posts: 31
    I too have read the "sludge" board. Only seems to have happened to several Lexus's. I know the people it has happened to feel it is a Manufacturer problem. I think somebody, oil change shop?, did not change oil or put sub par oil in engine. I have had several bad experiences by these oil change places. I do not trust anybody to touch my car. I do all my own oil changes. Only submit to dealer at 15,000, 30,000, 45,000 ect.
    How do you like your RX? I have a friend who owns one. He loves his.

    Chip

    P.S. Host, I know we have digressed to sludge and maintenance on this board. Will try to stop. Did not intentionally take conversation this way. Just kind of went that direction. Thanks for your understanding.
  • ripinrocketripinrocket Member Posts: 157
    You're just seeing things.

    Check out alot of other cars, the front wheel wells usually have bigger openings than the rear wheels due to the greater up and down travel the front suspension makes as opposed to the rear. Why does it do that? When braking a FWD car pushes all weight forward dropping the front suspension, and when accelerating, the weight lifts off of the front wheel. Second, it also looks like the front end wheel wells are much higher because front to back, cars typically gain height. By that I mean, the side glass has a higher ending point at the end of the rear side doors, and the mouldings and so on rise also as they go backwards across the car.
  • ripinrocketripinrocket Member Posts: 157
    My wife's BMW has the bigger front wheel well opening also, but only slightly as compared to the rear.
  • ctrowland1ctrowland1 Member Posts: 31
    You are right. I have deleted my message.
    I'm just trying to figure out what it is about the style that does not appeal to me.

    Chip
  • skeewb_4287skeewb_4287 Member Posts: 17
    Disclaimer: The following is subjective OPINION based on the limited knowledge of some nitwit who just wants to get his two cents in. If you have a problem with opinions other than your own, KEEP SCROLLING, DO NOT read the following.

    What were the Lexus designers thinking when they were designing the rear of the ES. I mean, were they tired or sleepy or something. It looks ripped right off the hind quarters of the first-gen Avalon. I mean, come on, the plebeian rear doesn't match with the haute front styling.

    Furthermore, i always thought that that luxury version of a car was supposed to look better than the everyday midsize version of it. The '02 Camry looks WAY better and far more balanced (Remember the disclaimer if you disagree with me)than the ES.
  • domettgdomettg Member Posts: 55
    Looking at the spy photo of the '02 Camry, I think the side view around the 'C' pillars looks like the current generation (1997-2001) ES300. I think it looks more sporty than the '02 ES300.
  • rickc5rickc5 Member Posts: 378
    I so dislike the style of the new ES.

    It looks like Chrysler designed it!

    I especially dislike the window treatment on the back doors, with the curved C pillars.

    That's my $.02.
  • shus226shus226 Member Posts: 9
    I have a 95 ES300 w/120,000 miles. I may need a rebuilt transmission soon. Right now it is running fine. Has anyone have their transmission rebuilt? At what mileage and how much? thanks,
  • ripinrocketripinrocket Member Posts: 157
    Get the tranny rebuilt when it falls apart. Don't rebuild it just because of mileage.

    I'm sure a rebuilt tranny for a Lexus is expensive, somewhere in the $4K range.

    2002 ES300,

    I think people need to wait to see the actual car in person. I didn't find the ES300 to be good looking at first in pics either, but it's grown on me. And the magazines have all basically said the car is good looking and distinctive.

    I think one of the reasons alot of people don't like it right now is because the 2002 ES300 is a big styling departure from the 1997-2001 model. Alot of you people were expecting evolutionary styling like what happened to the ES300 from 1996 to the 97 model year.

    I welcome the new big headlights, it adds alot of character to the styling and those headlights create a family resemblance with the GS, LS, and SC430.
  • ctrowland1ctrowland1 Member Posts: 31
    I agree with you, ripinrocket, on two points. Car will look different in person and "it" is starting to grow on me also. But, you can't deny first impressions are important. When I saw the spy photos of the new 2002 Camry, see post #1184, I liked what I saw. Granted the views are very limited. But, from what I can see, I like it. First impression was good. Not so with the ES.

    Chip
  • ripinrocketripinrocket Member Posts: 157
    Personally, it's just a car, so if in real life the car looks good, the first impression means nothing.

    The 2002 Camry looks pretty good too, but from the pics, the rear overhang looks too long and the rear Maxima-Neon-ish tailights don't do it for me. But again, I'll wait to see that in person also before passing judgement.
  • dardson1dardson1 Member Posts: 696
    For years the automotive design trend was to larger windows, lower "belt-line". That tends to make cars look lower and lighter. Now, it seems, the trend is to raise the "belt-line" with taller doors and smaller windows. It's very retro and things are beginning to all look like a 1951 Mercury. There are certain "truths" in design (and I happen to be in the design business) and something called the golden-mean (around since the Greeks) that describes visually pleasing proportions. Raising the visual center of gravity on the new ES300 makes it appear a little over-weight in need of a six-week low-cal diet. Glad I bought my '01.
  • ctrowland1ctrowland1 Member Posts: 31
    Could not agree more. Also glad I bought mine in 2001.
This discussion has been closed.