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Lexus ES 300/ES 330

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Comments

  • s852s852 Posts: 1,051
    It looks like the deal was for an ES300 with VP, wood steering wheel, wheel locks and trunk mat.
    Those few options do not add up to the MSRP they listed at $36473.00, but it might be a good deal if it still is the cost they listed.
    If I can get it for the monthly cost they listed with no cap reduction, I may take it anyway.
    That still is almost $2K below invoice so it might not be possible. I'll know if this is a sleazy company that uses bait and switch in a day or two when they contact me with the price.
  • Has anyone found out when it will arrive on dealer lots? I know the official release date is Oct. 1st but usually cars arrive on the lots a few weeks in advance. Thanks.
  • godeacsgodeacs Posts: 481
    why not call your local dealer?
  • My dealer is in Portland, OR and they are getting cars over this weekend--
    they said to expect pricing of around $39K
    although here is what I expect
    32K--base MSRP with destination (32,050)
    This time it has moonroof standard
    $500 for HID, $400 for heated seats--$5000 for nav/mark levinson and atleast $1500 more for leather
    you can easily shoot to 42K with chrome wheels etc but my dealer says they are confident it will remain $40K or less to not compete with GS300 sales
    Two colors I a opting for are Mystic sea green and Black garnet--will let you know when I get either
  • lenscaplenscap Posts: 854
    The dealers by me say they don't know when the cars are arriving, that one day the trucks will just pull up.

    Are you sure about the moonroof being standard? I thought it was still optional.

    I saw both colors you are considering in person at the 2002 test drive two weeks ago. The Mystic Sea is a little dull but still sharp, although you almost never see an LS or GS in that color even though it's offered. The Black Garnet was REAL nice.

    I want mine in silver with a black interior.
  • godeacsgodeacs Posts: 481
    2001s ad an MSRP of $34,073 with Lexus value package on all cars at my local dealer. They said the 2002s would go for about $36K or so...anything higher and you are competing with the GS....
  • I have just received an invitation from JMLexus in the Ft Lauderdale area to view the 02 ES301
    at Town Center at Boca Raton- Nordstrom's Wing on Sept 12th at 7pm.
  • IMHO, the ES still looks too similar to it's Camry cousin. The two cars are indeed different from one another, but the differences seem very minor. Check out the pic:

    image


    Last note, Tokyo retail prices range from Y3.2-3.86 million (US$26,685-32,190)for the Windom. Also, if you want to see Toyotas that will probably end up being Lexus models, check out
    "auto-asia.com" and take a look at the Brevis and Verossa models.

  • lenscaplenscap Posts: 854
    Looks really are subjective. I actually think this is the first time the ES and Camry are vastly different. Only the headlights are similar, but that's expected from a Toyota product. The Camry has sharp angles around all windows, whereas the ES is very round like the GS. If you see the two cars together in a side profile you'll see they don't really look alike at all. Also, the Camry has much taller windows, while the ES closes in its occupants much more. And the back ends are totally different. Plus, the Camry has very flat sides and the ES has that thickly characater line. Having seen both cars in person, I can say the Camry is very boxy and upright like the Avalon and the ES has a fluid, steeply raked roofline.

    I doubt the Brevis or Verossa will be Lexus models any time soon. They are priced similar to the ES and IS, and there is no room in the Lexus lineup for four cars all priced about the same. That's my opinion, but I do agree those look like nice cars.
  • well lenscap-thx for supporting garnet black :)
    folks, I got the es brochure--it says moonroof is standard
    now for the price
    assuming
    base+ destination is still 32,050
    nav and mark levinson will be atleast 5K (actually it is 7k with leather on Gs 300)
    now heated seats =400
    HID are packaged with rear shade= 550?
    adaptive suspension=1000
    trc and brake assist with VSC=600
    chrome wheels =1700

    so that could be lot of moolah
  • lenscaplenscap Posts: 854
    I didn't know the 2002 brochure was in. I'll have to stop at my dealer tonight. Thanks for letting us know.

    I realize now the moonroof is standard. My dealer gave me a small guide on the ES which was meant for dealers only. It didn't say anymore than we already know, but it said the moonroof was optional. It was printed in June, so clearly Lexus changed their mind.

    As for the price, my dealer sticks to his guns that the car loaded will be $38,500. The NAV/ML option on the GS at $8,000 actually includes the moonroof, heated seats and HID lights, so you need to subtract those out.

    Also, the adaptive suspension should be $620, same as it was for 2001.

    We can only see how this price thing plays itself out.
  • lenscaplenscap Posts: 854
    I see Lexus has just announced the price of the 2002 LX 470. While the price is exactly the same as the 2001, the NAV is now standard. In essence they have lowered the price of a NAV-equipped vehicle by $2,000.

    So, hopefully there is a little surprise with the price of the ES.
  • I agree that impressions can change substantially when you see the car in person. I remember seeing pictures of the IS300, and then seeing the real thing. Honestly, the pictures don't do it any justice(well, at least the ones used in advertisements and thumbnails). I've seen the Camry in the flesh(or should I say metal?), now I'm just waiting to see the ES300. Oh yeah, my local dealer also estimated $38,000 target(like what lenscap has said in the past) and that it shouldn't be competing with the GS300. Which edmunds TMV shows $42950 with Mark Lev/Navigation package.
  • Lenscap
    You are right on-there may be surprises
    My dealer says $39,500 max but it will be great if 38K is the limit
    will be nice
    I know that the sunshades come packaged with HID and that may remain at 550.
    Who knows maybe nav/mark levinson may cap at 4K or so
    Even sc430 has nav standard now-will let you know as soon as I find more
  • Is a dangerous place for the ES to play, IMO.

    Would you rather have an MB C320, a BMW 330i or 525i, an Audi S4 or A6 or an ES300 for the same price?

    The ES will sell, no doubt, but IMO the sales numbers will be down from where they would be if Lexus kept pricing constant.
  • lenscaplenscap Posts: 854
    I was at my dealer yesterday evening. He said Lexus has not formalized prices yet, but that they are now being told a loaded ES will be about $37,500. We can only hope that's true.

    Keep in mind when I bought my 1995 ES new the sticker was $35,800.

    As for mmcbride1's comment/question, I do agree that coming close to $40,000 is a bad move just to keep the exclusivity. Clearly Lexus does not want the volume that Acura gets with the TL. Obviously the higher the price the less the car will sell.

    As for other cars (MB, BMW, Audi), if I spent $40,000 I'd be tempted to get a GS 300 without the NAV/ML. They can be had for that price. I believe all of the other cars mentioned are over $40K with comparable equipment like NAV (sticker, don't know about discounts), so even at $40K (which I doubt will happen) the ES would be less expensive. I've seen loaded C320s and 330i in dealer lots for $43-44K.
  • You made a good point. Why get the ES when you can get a GS for a little more?

    And yes, if you put every single option on the MB and BMWs, then the price would be over $40k. But I think most people get well equipped, but not loaded, MBs and BMWs. That would put them right around $40k.

    And at $40k, a couple thousand either way won't be a major consideration. People will get what they like best (or at least they should).

    But why wouldn't Lexus want to sell 60,000 ESs? I think they would love it, provided they have the excess capacity.

    There's a lot more competition at the $35-40k level now than there was 6 years ago, too.

    $37,500 for a loaded ES is better than $40k, I'll give you that.
  • lenscaplenscap Posts: 854
    I love it! We're starting to agree on things.
  • I really hope you guys are correct--I wish you were on the lexus pricing department :)
    my only apprehension is:
    base with destination=32,050
    you are then talking chrome wheels, hid package (with r/s wipers), rear shade, heated seats, air suspension, brake assist, VSC and TRAC bundle--assuming moonroof standard--as additional options
    For the price to be 37,500 which I agree is the fair price, all these options would hav eto be within 5,500--which may be tough
    But who knows--miracles are possible
    Comments
  • All I was saying is that the competition gets a lot tougher at the $40k level than it is at the $35k level. At $40k, you bring in the BMW 330i (instead of just the 325i), the BMW 5-series, the Audi A6, the MB C320 and the Audi S4, not to mention Lexus' own GS300. IMO, I'd rather take any of those over an ES for the same price. That's why I think the ES needs to stay at $37k or so max. If they keep a $5k or so cushion under those other cars (selling prices, not necessarily MSRP), they shouldn't have much of a problem.

    I also think Lexus wants to sell as many ESs as they can.
  • s852s852 Posts: 1,051
    Chrome wheels, VSC, air suspension, brake assist, etc are very expensive options that add little value to the car.
    Even the $2,000 navigation system only adds a few hundred dollars to future resale value.

    What is the expected price of a more commonly equipped car that would be just leather, CD changer, moonroof and maybe heated seats and sunshade and few, if any, additional options?
  • lenscap
    I agree with you completely
    s852--the answer to your question will be around $35K
    I am not ruling out a $39K sticker with everything
    selling price eventually will be $35k
    i will know this week
  • lenscaplenscap Posts: 854
    As an aside, my friend's 1997 ES has the Adjustable Variable Suspension. It seems they didn't make too many 1997-2001 ESs with it, but IMO it is a great feature and really works well. It definitely changes the personality of the car depending upon the setting.

    Plus, they improved the system for 2002 by having it work for each wheel independently.

    So, if any of you wind up buying the 2002 I recommend this option (I think it is $620).
  • If a loaded ES300 prices at $37,500, I'll buy it. If it comes in at $40,000, I won't. It is a matter of principal. Lexus can easily sell this for car for a very profitable $37,500.

    A price beyond that is pure greed and sends a message that Lexus thinks its customers are stupid, or in love with the car regardless of price. I don't think either apply.

    Acura has proven that an auto company can package a luxury sport vehicle at a "value" price. I like what they've done. I think they've cut dealer profitability a bit, but I like that nearly everyone pays the same price for their cars.

    It is a bit ironic that Lexus may be making the same mistake that Mercedes and BMW made ten years ago by assuming that customers will pay nearly any price for their cars. A 10K premium for a ES300 versus a Acura TL S is a bit much.

    I have two Lexus autos and will buy the 2002 ES300 if it is REASONABLY priced. If it isn't, I'll buy something else.

    Hope someone from Lexus' marketing department reads these forums.
  • What do you think the pricing will be for the car with all the options excluding the nav system but including Mark Levinson? 36,000?
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    I really can't imagine any sane person screwing up the look of their Lexus by adding cheap, ghetto looking chrome wheels (or gold trim for that matter) ESPECIALLY at 1700 frekin dollars.
    The new ES is a fine looking car. Don't fall into the options trap by getting the yucky chrome rims.
    ~alpha!
  • s852s852 Posts: 1,051
    Since there are no official prices available, it is early to be getting overworked about the price.
    If the MSRP is too high for what you get, people won't pay and the dealers will have to discount it.
    If the MSRP is too low, then there will be a stampede to get the car creating a shortage and dealers will mark up it to take advantage of the situation.
    So MSRP is not really going to matter that much in the long run because the market will decide what they are willing to pay for it or they will just go buy something else instead.
    There are plenty of other nice cars in the same price range from Mercedes, Acura, BMW etc. if the car is released with an overpriced MSRP.
  • Remember also, Lexus has had this strange habit of prebundling different options together. Dealers usually receive pre-arranged combinations where customers don't really have much choice in choosing a desired option without getting another premium. An example is with the GS300. If you want the HID lamps, you gotta go with at least the Mark Levinson audio. For the IS300, if you want heated seats, you have to get the luxury leather package, which only is combined with certain colors(can't get'em on the yellow IS). Right now it's wait and see, but if pricing did come to $40k+ fully loaded, I would not go with the ES300.
  • lenscaplenscap Posts: 854
    I agree Acura has some wonderful products at a lower price point. But the new ES will not be $10,000 more than a TL-S. That car is about $32,500 w/NAV. By the way, who here remembers the previous generation TL that stickered for $38,000 loaded?

    As for Lexus doing strange pricing things, think about the 2000-01 ES models. Loaded they were around $37,000, but the window stickers always subtracted $2,000 for the Luxury Options Package. So the car was now $35,000. I think they do the same thing with the RX. Perhaps that will happen with the 2002.
  • I received a small (preview?) ES 300 brochure from Lexus today. For those of you who haven't seen it, here's some information it supplies about the car that you might find useful.

    ** There are nine available exterior colors: Alabaster, Mystic Gold, Starlight Pearl, Blue Onyx Pearl, Millennium Silver, Black Garnet Pearl, Mystic Sea Opalescent, Crystal White, and Black Onyx.

    ** Three colors of leather are available: black, gray, and ivory. The gray is not available in fabric, but I believe that this is essentially irrelevant (see below).

    ** The moonroof is standard; just about everything else you'd expect to be optional (including leather) is optional. However, my *guess* is that the Premium Package (leather, CD changer, and seat/mirror memory), which is required for both nav and mark levinson, will come on every ES 300.

    ** Other options are: brake-related features (VSC, TRAC, and EBD), AVS suspension, HID lights, rain-sensing wipers, rear sunshade, and heated seats. (I apologize for the acronyms, but my fingers are getting tired.)

    The brochure, of course, makes no mention of price, and the pictures and text yield nothing you probably don't already know.

    BTW, my closest dealer says that no dealer will show the car before Oct. 1. True or false?
This discussion has been closed.