Lexus ES 300/ES 330

toyo_z · January 2002

lotusfla --
My ES300 has the premium package + HID lamps;
Edmunds TMV was $33,674; Countyline gave it to me for $33083 + tax&tags

I was more than happy with the price, and I didn't have to kill myself to get it. The buying experience was really easy, just like buying any other major appliance. (go figure!) Ask for wayne, the Internet Sales manager.

I was told by the folks there that they are getting retail for all the ES300s that come in, except for internet sales. So stress that you are an internet buyer. Good luck!

joker2108 · January 2002

Would you know what a Lease goes for on that Es 300 you got? From 36 to 39 months with 12k miles a year

thanks

dbor · January 2002

Have now put about 1000 miles on our new ES-300. Question I have for other owners is relating to the gas mileage you have been getting. On city driving we have been getting about 17 miles to the gallon and on freeway about 23 miles. These are substantially below the estimated gas consumption of 21/29. We have only put premium gas in the car. When we brought the car in for the 1000 mile checkup, one of the service administrators told my wife that they were aware that there was a problem with the gas mileage on the new ES-300's. When I told my wife to get something in writing from them, she went back and was told by another service person that for the first 5000 miles the car was still breaking in and not to expect great gas mileage. Any comments would be welcomed.

yon · January 2002

I'm seeing around 23-25 with a mix of town/highway. I was expecting higher, but it seems to be better than what you're getting.

afinegold · January 2002

dbor - why premium gas? ES300s are made to run on unleaded regular. Believe it should say that in your owners manual (by octane number), or check with a couple of your dealer's people -- salesman, two or three service personnel -- to get a consensus.

michaelf2 · January 2002

Where did you purchase your Lexus in Northern Va. The dealer in Richmond doesn't want to budge off MSRP. How much did you pay over invoice?

kreativ · January 2002

The '02 ES Lexus manual says to use premium (91 octane or higher), probably to help them meet the ULEV standard. So technically, the engine is tuned for premium but there's probably no harm in using regular, as the ECU will compensate for the reduced octane gas automatically.

lexrules · January 2002

My dealer claims that I have to do my services every 5000 miles on my 2002 es. I only drive the car on freeways in warm weather. The owner manual states that I can do services every 7500 miles. Who should I believe?

lexrules · January 2002

A stone hit my windshield (I can see a small spot). Do you know any ways of preventing the window from cracking?

alpha01 · January 2002

Basically, IMO, you can believe either source. The 5000 mile interval is recommended for heavier duty usage... such as city driving, varying temps, varying loads, etc. The 7500 mile interval is probably fine for you. Personally, on our 2002 Camry, which we just purchased in December, we will be following the 5000 mile interval, just to ensure that everything is always at tip top condition. The car is driven mostly by my mother, with a light to moderate load, under NJ weather patterns. Its really your call... but once you choose, maintain consistency, and just so Toyota (Lexus) can never dispute maintenence procedure should anything go wrong, I would have the car serviced at a Lexus dealership using Lexus "genuine parts" for AT LEAST the duration of your basic warranty.
Thats my take,
alpha

hk2la · January 2002

Lexrules: that happened to my current car right after I had the windshield replaced (due to another crack that got really big). There's some kind of clear stuff that they can inject into the crack to prevent it from becoming larger. That's what I had done and it's been many years, and no problems.

Kreativ: remember, I only got the VIN because my bank needed it for the loan. I also got the total price (incl. tax/license) through my bank and the dealer's total is slightly higher than my calculations, so we shall see. Got the VIN probably about a week or so ago. My car should arrive tomorrow--at last! Don't get me wrong, pretty much everyone I've spoken with at the dealership has been pretty good. I just don't enjoy the car buying experience. Btw, thanks for the exterior/interior upkeep tips.

I saw the Olympic torch! Or, as the publicity line goes, "I saw the flame!" Just thought I'd share with everyone.

hk2la · January 2002

I also noticed a lot of roll when I did the test drive, and I was very surprised. But I noticed quite a bit of that in the GS too. Anyway, I had already decided on Lexus (ruling out BMW, Mercedes), so I'll live with it. btw, there is a huge difference in freeway wind noise between the 2001 and 2002 ES. I guess that noise absorbing material really works.

kreativ · January 2002

dbor - I've only driven 200 miles locally, but I'm getting even worse: 15.x MPG. I ran into a lady also with an '02 ES who was extremely unhappy with the gas mileage - she was only getting 15MPG out of hers, and had gotten much better MPG from the 2000 and 2001 ES models she previously owned. The '02 ES should be getting BETTER mileage than the '00 and '01. I did hear an engine gets better mileage after break-in, but a jump from 15 to 25 seems unlikely to me.

kreativ · January 2002

lexrules - The dealer is interested in your money. Of course they're going to tell you to come in every 5000 rather than 7500 miles. They make more money if you come in more often to pay their ridiculous service charges. After all, that's how Lexus dealerships make the bulk of their money. To add insult to injury, all those "checks and inspections" you're paying good money for is pretty much BS:
1. Many of their mechanics won't even bother if it takes more than a visual glance.
2. They'd do it for free as long as you asked them to during a routine oil change, as these checks are very simple to do.

Follow the guidelines in your owner's manual, not what the dealer tells you. Lexus says 7500 mile interval unless you drive under one of the listed "severe conditions", in which you should follow the 5000 mile interval. Here is what Honda has to say about oil changes (cut and paste off their web site):
"Following the "severe conditions" guidelines won't help your Honda unless you really do drive under those conditions. Many vehicle owners waste time, money, and oil on unnecessary oil changes, for example. The quality of engine oil and filters has steadily improved to keep pace with the requirements of new engines."

The oil change industry would love for you to come in as often as possible, and they've managed to get most people to ignore what the owner's manual says (75% probably don't even know what the manual says) and follow the "3000 mile" oil change interval religiously.

As for servicing your Lexus, it's best to find a trustworthy local mechanic that charges fairly: you'll actually get the service and attention to your car that you're paying for. Ask around for recommendations. Otherwise, just take it to Lexus and pray you get a mechanic that actually cares, and the high school kid that drives your car to the back doesn't floor it over the speed bump for fun (not representative of all Lexus dealers of course).

As for the warranty, it doesn't matter where you take it for service as long as you make sure quality parts are used and keep all receipts of work done.

If you want to be good to your engine, use Mobil 1 synthetic oil. Far better than the Valvoline conventional oil that Lexus service centers use, and the money you'd save by taking it to a local mechanic and paying "labor only" will easily cover the costs of the synthetic oil and a Mobil 1 oil filter. The hard part is finding a local mechanic you can actually trust.

kreativ · January 2002

hk2la - I don't care much for the car buying experience either. Although I do like selecting what make/model to get.
I was at Universal Studios tonight too. I thought it was funny when they were rehearsing the "torch run" earlier in the day.

inky · January 2002

Look in yellow pages. Your insurance company may very well provide free repair for this regardless of deductable. Mine does. You can save yourself by repairing now and not cracking.
INKY

alpha01 · January 2002

I was very interested to read your post, I feel somewhat ignorant now, but I do have one major contention... despite that the dealer may charge higher prices, i think it is worth it to be serviced there instead of a local shop, regardless of its quality, at least until the warranty's end... why?
My father's 1994 Corolla experienced a transmission problem around 63,000 miles in 1998. Technically, we were over Toyota's Powertrain warranty by 3,000 miles BUT since we had always had the car serviced at the dealership, Toyota agreed to pay nearly half of the $1200 repair bill.
~alpha

kreativ · January 2002

Yes, what you said is very true. Lexus/Toyota is more willing to cover expenses after warranty if you've shown that you have faithfully serviced the car. To them, that means bringing it to a Lexus/Toyota dealer for regular service (i.e. "you spent 2x more money than you should have all along, so sure, we don't mind covering some of the right-after-warranty expenses for you")
You could see the higher dealer service prices as insurance for possible after-warranty problems. But I'm not sure how long after your warranty expired that they'd still cover you, as there are no set rules.

For an ES, you could take it to a Toyota dealer and get the SAME parts and service as at your Lexus dealer. That is because the ES and Camry share much of the same internal works. My local Toyota dealer charges $21.95 for an oil change and $15.95 for a tire rotation. Compare that to my local Lexus dealer's $50 for an oil change and $50 for a tire rotation. Don't ask me how they justify those kind of prices.
So anyways, you would still be getting Toyota service except at a much more reasonable price. As far as after-warranty coverage by Toyota/Lexus, this would be much better than if you went to a random mechanic.

lenscap · January 2002

Those oil change prices are high. The dealer near me charges $28.95.

teo · January 2002

I think the 1st and 2nd generation ES300 sedans were very sharp and handsome looking sedans. What happened with the new 2002 3rd generation? I am not sold to the new "bug eyes" look. The car has lost the fluid design it had in years past. The interior is very nice, but the exterior is a huge step back IMO.

I am not impressed by CALTY's design excercises of late.

hk2la · January 2002

kreativ: so who's your mechanic? local toyota dealer or someone else? btw, thanks for all the very helpful info you've been posting.
So you saw Arnold! I didn't go to City Walk; saw the torch in downtown. Could've seen it again this am, but didn't get up in time.

aggie76 · January 2002

Anybody come down to final decision between these two? I pulled both side-by-side yesterday and beside the obvious body/engine differences & about $4k in cash, the content seems fairly equal. I did notice real differences between dash heights & window viewing size. The ES dash rises so much higher and the windows seem smaller. Anyone bothered by the lack of view area? Also the ES wheel tilts out of the way much better when exiting. Has anyone noticed and dealt with these factors?

I drive a '98 GS300 now and need to down-size due to company auto policy change, another market casualty.

lenscap · January 2002

I don't believe CALTY designed the ES. They're in California, but the new ES was designed in Japan.

Anyway, to each his own. I love the new ES. I think it looks a million times nicer than my 1995 or my friend's 1997.

As for the ES 300 vs. I35, I personally think the ES is much nicer, but that's just my opinion. If nothing else, the ES is in it's first year, while the I35 is nearing the end of its cycle and will be redone soon (and possibly dropped altogether).

The smaller windows were done on purpose to convey a sense of more privacy. The GS is a great car, but so is the ES so don't worry about "stepping down" (if you can even call it that).

stevieb · January 2002

aggie76, I was very much like you trying to make the decision between the ES300 & I35. I believe both are excellent cars, intended to cater to somewhat different drivers. The ES300 is softer riding and quieter, the I35 is definitely firmer riding (especially with the sport package), more powerful, and a little noiser. The I35 shows much closer roots to its Maxima heritage in the interior, while Lexus has distinguished the ES300 much further away from its Camry cousin, as well as being one good looking car outside (very subjective since I know some people don't like the exterior styling). The ES300 comes at an approximately $3000 additional premium as compared to the I35. Additionally, I believe the Lexus name definitely carries some additional snob appeal than does the Infiniti name.

Bottom line, you need to drive both and determine what characteristics of both cars is more important to you. I ended buying an I35, primarily because:

-I liked the firmer ride, awesome acceleration, and more sporty handling. The ES300 felt more floaty. Perhaps with the AVS option (which was not even close to being available on any of the ES300's in my area back in Oct.) it may make more of a difference in the overall handling of the ES300.
-The ES300's were brand new at that time and the dealer in my area was not budging from sticker price. (Their allotments were being sold before they were even hitting the dealer's lot.) Although I did not get a spectacular deal on the I35 since it was a freshened model, I was at least able to get $1500 off MSRP.
-Realistically, to get an ES300 optioned the way I would have ideally wanted it would have raised the price close to $40,000 and it would have had to have been ordered. I did not want to spend that amount of money or wait 3-4 months for it to come in. With every option except the navigation system, the I35 only stickered a little over $35,000.

Am I happy with my decision? Definitely!! 3 months later, no problems, and still enjoying the driving experience. Either way, I don't believe you can go wrong as long as you are choosing the car based on what's most important to you. The ES300 is a great car; maybe with a few tweaks in 2003 it would sway my buying decision, if I had it to do over. However, based on the current offerings, the I35 ended up being the right car for me.

Happy car shopping!

alfaber · January 2002

aggie76: Like stevieb, I bought a new I35 instead of an ES300. I liked the styling and interior better on the I35, and it definitely had a stronger engine. Although I didn't get the sports package, I did like the feeling of being more connected to the road than I felt in the ES300 (same reason I bought a 535 instead of an LS400 back in 1989, BTW).
The I35 also is significantly cheaper, even more so than you would conclude by comparing MSRP's, since the I35 seems to go for about $1000-1500 over invoice.
I've had no troubles and love the car, particularly the heated steering wheel!
Either way, you will get a competent vehicle.
--Andy

aggie76 · January 2002

Well, took back the I35 today after spending over 100 miles in it last night and today. Great car for sure, especially responsiveness - amazing what 255 horses do for you. Will stop by Lexus tonight and do an overnight with the ES then report tomorrow. Concerns about I35 center on preference items vs content. Big guy that I am, steering wheel didn't really tilt up enough for entry and exit and dead pedal area was lacking in support/comfort. No filter on a/c for external air, spouse has real sensitivity for smog/exhaust/etc. Only one-touch windows in front, seemed noisy at speed (maybe tire issue), and the entire car just doesn't make my heart go pitter patter the way my GS still does.

More tomorrow.

mrrogers · January 2002

oil changes with highway driving in warm weather. Kreativ has a good idea concerning Mobil 1 synthetic oil also. In the Edmund's Maintenance and Repair section, there is a topic called Engine Sludge? A certifield lubricant engineer says the Lexus/Toyota 3.0 V6 can shear the oil in about 4,000 miles. One theory has the cam gears shearing the oil. Some people are paying $4,000 to get the sludge removed. It is a $40,000 car. I don't know what to tell you. Good luck!

dpcjdjdddd · January 2002

I recently purchased a '98 ES300. The car is great with one problem. When going over bumpy roads, I am hearing a rattle that seems to be coming from under the hood directly in front of me (the driver's side). When the road is smooth, the ride is extremely quiet and like riding on air, but the bumps are pretty loud. I previously owned a Toyota camry and never noticed a rough suspension noise like this. Do all the Lexus models have a tighter suspension, thus causing louder noise over rough roads? It almost sounds as if something is loose under the hood, but I could not find anything upon inspection. If you know anything about recalls for this model, or have any ideas on what this could be, please reply. Thanks

kreativ · January 2002

lenscap - Wow, that's a great oil change price for a Lexus dealer. Which Lexus dealer is it?

hk2la - Still searching for a good mechanic in the South Bay. You should have your car now! I hope you're really liking it!!

stevieb - Good ES/I35 comparison!

lenscap · January 2002

The Lexus dealer that charges around $28-29 is Arlington Lexus in Palatine.

Of the two other dealers near me, both Bredemann Lexus and Lexus of Highland Park charge around $40.

lenscap · January 2002

My process of ordering a 2002 ES 300 has gotten even more bizarre.

As you'll recall, I first ordered a 2002 back on October 5 (a Millenium Silver, black interior, fairly loaded including AVS). When the owner of the dealer lied about giving me a discount, I worked with some Lexus Corporate folks to have my order transferred to another dealer (one that has won the Elite award eight years in a row I believe).

My "new" order at the new dealer was placed on November 12.

All along the salesman has been saying the car is on order and should arrive late January/early February. To my shock, I was told last week that there was a mixup and somehow my order was never placed. Therefore, I am now not looking at getting my car until May.

Being extremely disappointed in the dealer at this, and losing out on being able to sell my 1995 ES 300 at a good price to a private party, made me upset enough to contact the Corporate folks again.

We'll see what happens. I hoping to get a car sooner than May.

bpdc · January 2002

Anyone know what the "AF" button does on the Navigation Radio screen? I couldn't find an explanation in the manual.

kreativ · January 2002

Arlington sounds like the place to go for those in your area. $40 is also the lowest I've seen for an oil change at the other dealers in my area.

AVS started coming in on ES cars this past November, in southern California. Do you still have to wait on a special order?

Get Lexus to give you an awesome deal on a full spec (w/AVS) for the trouble. Then you won't have to wait until May. The longer you have to wait, the less special that deal you got back in early Cctober will become.

hk2la · January 2002

It is home at last! It had only 9 miles on it when it became mine. Several family members have already been given rides

The purchasing experience at Santa Monica Lexus was generally easy. Bob, my salesperson, told me they just became an Elite dealership. He showed me all sorts of things about the car and pointed out not losing that wheel lock key! So did everyone else get the keychain? Just curious.

If you go there hope you get the regular financing person (actually, I wouldn't know since I never met that person). Anyway, I got someone who was filling in. Her name is Nina Golub and she is one little chickadee I would prefer never again to encounter. She said regarding the new ES I was about to possess: "That's a nice little car." I had some questions about a discrepancy between their number and mine for the license tax, and that witch was really put out.
With the exception of this Golub person and the internet sales manager, my experience at Santa Monica Lexus was generally decent. But there is way too much snot appeal there. They're really into appearance and show. Maybe I should have worn some of my diamonds. However, I suspect the mechanics are probably pretty good, and I'll probably take my car out there until I couldn't stand driving that distance for tune-ups, etc.
I still need to do a much more detailed, close look at the car. And read that manual!

kreativ · January 2002

hk2la - Congrats! Enjoy your new car.

lenscap · January 2002

Lexus Corporate called me on Friday. You're right, they said California is getting nearly all the AVS-equipped vehicles (and there are not a lot of them).

They say they found an inbound one on a boat and they should be able to get a car in 4-8 weeks, much quicker than if I special order one.

I've pushed the dealer (not corporate) for a better deal, but they won't budge. Here in Chicago the cars are going for list.

We'll see what happens. Thanks for your advice.

lexrules · January 2002

Can you post your statistics for gas mileage? Here are mine:

year: 2002
gas mileage: 23MPG
mileage: 1,300 miles
% highway driving: 90%
average speed: 43MPH

rebelsk · January 2002

Year 2002
Gas Mileage 25mpg
Miles Driven 1200
% Highway Driving 50%
Average speed 50

bol · January 2002

Year 2002
Gas Mileage 20 to 21MPG
Miles Driven 1100
% Highway Driving 50%
Average speed 28MPH

By the way, my car is in the dealership for them to fix the squeeking noise problem around the engine.

gambhir · January 2002

Okay so iwa shibernating for some time enjoying my black garnet pearl which got me lot of compliments
The car is a dream-I am impressed that the power seems more than what I thought it would be -definitely the engine breathes better

Got my airbag reacll fixed and they gave me complimentary gas fill up-so that is fixed

only gripe: not impressed with the gas mileage

Year: 2002
Mileage: 20 to 21
Miles driven: 3500
% highway : 50-60%
Avg speed: 31

I alos drove to british columbia-a 300 mile trip and I got 27 then but never 29
mostly in city I get 19.8 or so
Had higher expectations
I use premium but now experimenting with using plus sometimes

Lenscap-your experience is frustating
does it not make sense now for you to get the 2003 potentially with a power bump when you have suffered so much

Other issues-If you notice a small grrring noise in park it is your Nav DVD which tends to make a rotating sound

At 55-60 I briefly notice a gear hesitation as some people mentioned

paints seems very good
leather is very good
air conditioning and heating are terrific

Hey BTW where is the wheel lock key--no one gave it to me specially--where is it located

ruggedland · January 2002

Just test-drove a 2002 ES 300. Found one major problem: the back seats are way too high (or not enough hight back there). I'm less than 6 feet, and my hair is touching the roof sitting there, making it a somewhat hair-raising experience. The salesman explained to me this has to do with the new aerodynamic shape. Has anyone else complained about this? I don't think I want to sit back there during long drives.

yon · January 2002

Mileage here is 23-25, 2500 miles, with 60% highway. Highway speeds are usually >65 mph.

Last month after hitting a fair size pothole a rattle appeared. Sounded like something in the dash near the windshield. The first trip to the dealer didn't fix it, as all they did was put an insulaton kit in the dash. So I took a service tech on a test drive (of course the rattle decided to be elusive that day!) and once we got it to happen he decided that it was something hitting the windshield. At that point it was so hard to reproduce the rattle I decided I would bring it back on another day when the noise was more blatant.

On my way out, the tech wondered aloud as to whether it was the cowling under the wipers, which mounts against the glass and covers the vent intake that's behind the glove box. That would explain the plastic-against-glass sound and also why it sounded internal (echoing through the vents). His thought was to completely remove the cowling when I brought it back and see if the rattle went away during a test drive. If so, that would be the problem.

So this weekend I decide to futz with it myself. I manage to figure out how to get the cowling off (two plastic snaps for the cowling and two nuts to get the wipers off), and sure enough the problem went away. A combination of electrical tape along the bottom of the windshield and some sections of bicycle inner tube along parts of the cowling seem to have cured it.

So... if you have a plastic-sounding rattle that happens over bumps (especially potholes where one wheel dips---causes torque along the front), have them check the cowling even though it sounds like it's inside the car.

yon · January 2002

I'm 5' 11" and the rear seats seem fine to me. I would have no problem on a long trip back there. Rear leg room is noticably better than my 98 ES.

kreativ · January 2002

gambhir -
Wheel lock key is in trunk with the rest of the tools.
About the airbag recall, did you actually get a notice from Lexus about it, or did you go by the safety recall notice online?

I don't think Lexus is introducing the ES350 (3.5L engine) until 2005, maybe 2004. I think they're banking on the car selling based on the redesign and refined interior luxury until that time.

kreativ · January 2002

5'11", rear seats are fine for me too.

dcpep · January 2002

Anyone know what the "AF" button does on the Navigation Radio screen (bottom right corner)? I couldn't find an explanation in the manual and pressing it doesn't seem to do anything.

bol · January 2002

I picked up my car today. The mechanics were able to reproduce the squeaking noise this morning. It is so loud I don't think anybody could ignore it, especially when I step on the gas to accelerate. The service guys couldn't do anything except reporting it to Lexus and opening a case for the problem. I was told by the service rep that there were other reports of similar problems and Lexus was aware of it. What can I do now except waiting for a fix from Lexus? I am so disgusted by the car. It's the worst new car I ever had, even worse than the Chev S10 I bought years ago.

hk2la · January 2002

My salesperson also told me the wheel lock key is in with the tools, but I didn't see anything in there that doesn't look like a tool. Is it that cylindrical, er, thing that's attached to the spare tire insert?

Radio: "Type" button--how does it know?

gambhir · January 2002

my recall story is quite strange-I called my dealer after someone poste here about the recalls-they said my car was not affected and they would have called me if that were the case
But then two days later lexus sent me a notice regarding one of the two recalls-the air bag module--i obviously then confronted the dealership and they made upa silly excuse that my name now popped up in their recall listand they were going to call me (yeah right! like the check is in the mail kind of deal )
So it got fixed

I did not find the key so I will need to ask the dealer to give me one

same problem with my GS400--it never had it until one day my wife came back with a flat tire and we had a hard time fixing that :-(

So this time I wante dto make sure I knew how to get the key

Other buyers-pl. check your tool kit--key is not always there and it is pretty costly

kreativ · January 2002

hk2la -
Yup, that's the wheel lock.
Radio: It knows by the RDS signal sent out by radio stations. 105.1FM will send out an RDS signal that it plays music in the "classical" category.

gambhir -
Thanks for the recall info.
There should be a socket attached to the spare tire insert by a plastic retainer...that's the wheel lock. If it's not there, then definitely get one from the dealer.

Lexus ES 300/ES 330

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles