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Lexus ES 300/ES 330

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Comments

  • rebelskrebelsk Member Posts: 65
    I had to special order the car because I wanted the Mark Levinson system without the Navigation system. With the Nav, you have to flip it and the radio becomes more of a production to do all the adjustments. On my car, the Levinson system is what you view and has the standard radio conrols which is much easier. The Levinson system is more easily dispalyed and I think easier to use. If you would like to dicuss it further, drop me a line at pettyfeversk@aol.com.
  • lenscaplenscap Member Posts: 854
    For those interested, the ES 300 sold very well in January compared to its competitors.

    5173 -- ES 300
    4534 -- C-Class
    4447 -- TL
    3575 -- A4
    2569 -- I35
    1523 -- A6
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Where are you getting your numbers. No doubt to their validity, but I would just like access to that info as well. Thanks.
    ~alpha
  • rebelskrebelsk Member Posts: 65
    I have not seen it yet but apparently the March Edition of Consumer Reports magazine does a comparison of the Lexus ES 300, Audi A4, Jaguar, Acura TL, and the Infiniti I35. Has anyone seen the issue and how did the Lexus fare in the comparison ?
  • rnbesquirernbesquire Member Posts: 16
    Howdy:

    rebelsk asks: >>I have not seen it yet but apparently the March Edition of Consumer Reports magazine does a comparison of the Lexus ES 300, Audi A4, Jaguar, Acura TL, and the Infiniti I35. Has anyone seen the issue and how did the Lexus fare in the comparison?>>

    CR has a generally good review. They predict "much better than average reliability"

    They found it offers "a well-furnished, accommodating cabin, it offers a well-rounded package with very few flaws and scored highest overall in this group." They predict better than average reliability.

    Their comments pretty well track with my own experience in the black jet, which now shows 6,750 miles on the odo. I'm averaging 21.1 mpg, at an average speed of 31.5 mph. I'm alternating fillups between 89 and 91 octane.

    One of our members had a rattle in front of driver's dash where it meets the windshield, and I'm hearing it too. I'll have dealer look at it when I take it in to have the airbag replaced.

    Wish list: 1. Better cupholders; they don't hold standard travel mugs. 2. Place to stash or clip my cellphone.

    Still getting a lot of "oohs and aahs" from enthusiasts who see the car. The owner of a restaurant I frequent saw mine and went out and bought a black one with a wing and gold kit, and the stock wheels in chrome. I like the GS chrome wheels better.

    She's still the one...!!! Couldn't be happier.

    Cordially,

    RNBESQUIRE Phoenix, AZ
  • lenscaplenscap Member Posts: 854
    The numbers come from the own car companies' press releases. They can be accessed most easily here:

    1. Go to prnewswire.com
    2. Click on "industry focus"
    3. Click on "auto industry"

    Hope this helps.
  • hk2lahk2la Member Posts: 53
    Is anyone else experiencing a prolonged downshift at about 20mph? It gets very sluggish long enough so I wouldn't be able to initially outrun someone.

    btw, I averaged 15 mpg on my first tank of gas. According to the Lexus computer I was averaging 21mpg, but the reality, based on total miles and gas tank size, I averaged 15.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    lenscap.. thanks.. very informative URL!
    hk2la... how does fuel tank size matter in the calculation of MPG? shouldnt MPG be calculated Miles Driven/Gallons of Gasoline consumed... hence the designation "MPG"? I don't see how the "Lexus Computer" could be in error 6 MPG.
    ~alpha
  • kreativkreativ Member Posts: 299
    If you want to calculate MPG on your own, it's (Miles Driven since last fillup)/(How many gallons it takes to fill up the tank again). When the "low tank" indicator goes on, there's still about 4 gallons in the tank (from my experience on my first fillup with the ES).

    About downshifting...not sure exactly what mean, but if you mean how the ES has a tendency to resist downshifting when you step on it, then yah, you're not the first one who has asked about that. Maybe the "intelligence" part of the ECT-i transmission will adapt to your needs over time.
  • hk2lahk2la Member Posts: 53
    alpha01, kreativ: calculation based on total number of miles from one tank of gas. Ergo, MPG. Dividing the total miles driven from the first tank of gas by the total number of gallons in one tank gave me 15 mpg. If I factor in the extra 4 gallons remaining when the light comes on, it still doesn't get me to the 21.1 mpg that the computer says.

    I saw some posts about some resistance at 55/60 but didn't see anything re 20mph. Well, still breaking in the car so I guess I shouldn't be gunning it just yet.
  • svier1svier1 Member Posts: 6
    Well my mom just received her new 2002 ES 300 (mystic sea opal/ivory) and I bought her 1994 ES 300 for my wife. It had only 30,000 miles on it and not a scratch, always Lexus dealer maintained. Well now that me wife drives it, she seems to feel that the brakes could be more responsive and less play in the pedal feel. I've driven it and seem to feel there is some lack of responsiveness when it comes to the pedal.

    Anyone out there know of any up-grades to a 94 ES's braking system. Does Lexus offer different brake pads or rotors to it's car line? It just had it's 30K service in which they flushed out and replaced the brake fluid. Any ideas if that might be causing the brake pedal play (approx. 2-3 inches before any reaction to the brakes). Does it sound like it needs new pads or is there an upgrade fix.

    Any help or advise would be appreciated, thanks.
  • parrowparrow Member Posts: 8
    While the ES 300 scored highest overall among the cars tested, the report scored it fourth overall in the entry level class. First was the BMW 3301, second the Lesus IS, and third the MBZ C320.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    about the Consumer Reports article is that they judged the 5 speed automatic (something along the lines of) "less responsive than the 4 speed it replaces". Also, I was rather struck by the emergency handling judgement on the Acura TL-S.. it only posted 49.5 MPH and they judged it to be tricky to keep the rear end in line, even with stability control.
    ~alpha
  • gambhirgambhir Member Posts: 64
    well I am an ardent fan of Lexus and this is my third one
    so I am not some disgruntled owner of another brand trying to downplay my darling lexus-but it is like a child to me and no "parent" would like their child to have flaws

    I love my ES but absolutely feel very dejected at the mileage I get--thereis no justification for the 21/29 and claims that mileage improved--I think that is all false marketing to get people to buy it and justify the status quo on horsepower
    I think teh ePA is more like 15/23 and Lexus should apologize and issue a correction like infiniti did when they could not meet the 260 hp claims on I and G-35
    Facts must be true
    from the mileage data on this board I don't think others are getting the 29 on 100% highway either
    my vaerage is usually around 20 with 80% highway and 20% city-On my 100% highway trip for 6 hrs I got 26
    any comments

    Can we hold Lexus own their mistake--is this a consumer misinformation?

    Experts here must know the answer
  • kreativkreativ Member Posts: 299
    I have to agree with you in that the biggest complaint about the '02 ES I've heard so far has been MPG. When a person gets much better mileage with his '01 ES than his '02 ES, there's something wrong...especially since driving patterns are the same. I don't know how Lexus can refute that, but they deny ever hearing about the problem.
    Someone here posted about a Lexus service tech saying that he knew that poor MPG was an issue with the earlier '02 ES cars. Of course, when the ES owner wanted it in writing and the service tech went to the service manager, you know what happened.

    I'm getting bad mileage, but I'm not going to know how things stack up against the 21/29 claim until I start using the '02 ES as a daily commuter.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    in the aforementioned Consumer Reports test, the ES 300 averaged 21 MPG and according to their testing (which I'm not exactly sure how they do it) about 14 MPG City and 34 HWY, both comparable to the competing cars. Check out the issue: March 02 on newstands now.
    ~alpha
  • hungrywhalehungrywhale Member Posts: 83
    Comparable my butt! My girlfriend has an I30. She's never gotten less than 19 mpg on a tank, and gets 25-26 all highway.

    How is that comparable to 14 mpg?
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    If you read the CR report, you will see that the numbers for the ES are comparable to those measured for the other cars, and since Consumer Reports is the reference to which I spoke, your girlfriend's I30 is irrelevant. Consumer Reports measures economy for all cars in the same manner, hence my direct comparison based upon the March 02 issue. Like I said, check it out. If you aren't experiencing numbers that match those, or numbers that are suggested by the window sticker, COMPLAIN, COMPLAIN, COMPLAIN, but not to me, and don't reference your butt, I could care less about it. Write a letter to corporate stating your disappointment under the circunstancias you do not see an improvement, and/or your dealer will not help or refuses to compensate. Wow I am really procrastinating writing my Spanish paper. Gotta go.
    ~alpha
  • lenscaplenscap Member Posts: 854
    My friend took his car in for a routine service and the loaner was a new ES 300. Just thought it was interesting they're using the car as a loaner (this dealer mostly provides RX 300s, with some 2001 ES 300s thrown in occasionally).
  • hungrywhalehungrywhale Member Posts: 83
    Don't try and drag the competition down with you. That's too bad that you only get 14 mpg in the city in your ES, but that doesn't mean that's what the competition gets, too. She has a 2001 I30, so it's most certainly comparable to the ES, and most of her driving is stop and go in the city.

    More HP for the I30, it's faster, (and especially now that it's the I35) AND better mileage to boot?

    Why pay $5k for the L on the hood? Tell you what - pay me just $2,500 and I'll get you an L to go on the hood of whatever you want.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    So actually, I never said I own an ES, because I don't, I am just a fan of the platform and its proliferations. Nor am I dragging the competition down "with me", I am simply referring to a press article in which the ES has comparable MPG specs to those of its competitors. READ the ARTICLE, I'm not making things up.
    ~alpha
  • svier1svier1 Member Posts: 6
    Well my mom just received her new 2002 ES 300 (mystic sea opal/ivory)
    and I bought her 1994 ES 300 for my wife. It had only 30,000 miles on it
    and not a scratch, always Lexus dealer maintained. Well now that me wife
    drives it, she seems to feel that the brakes could be more responsive and
    less play in the pedal feel. I've driven it and seem to feel there is some lack
    of responsiveness when it comes to the pedal.

    Anyone out there know of any up-grades to a 94 ES's braking system.
    Does Lexus offer different brake pads or rotors to it's car line? It just had it's
    30K service in which they flushed out and replaced the brake fluid. Any
    ideas if that might be causing the brake pedal play (approx. 2-3 inches
    before any reaction to the brakes). Does it sound like it needs new pads or
    is there an upgrade fix.

    Any help or advise would be appreciated, thanks.
  • hungrywhalehungrywhale Member Posts: 83
    You insinuate that if the ES gets well below EPA estimates that the competition will, too.

    Sadly for you, that's not the case...
  • kreativkreativ Member Posts: 299
    Dude, he was just referring to the Consumer Reports article. He has no personal stake in an '02ES. I don't think he really cares about how your GF's I30 stacks up to the ES.

    If you want a more entertaining argument, tell hk2la her '02ES sucks. Now that'll be interesting. =)
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    A major newspaper is looking to interview folks who learned how to drive stick in their adulthood, and either fell in love or hated it. Also welcome is any input on why people love to drive stick, and any unusual anecdotes about how you learned etc.

    Hope to hear from you before Feb 22 via the Talk to the Press discussion or at jfallon@edmunds.com with your thoughts and contact information.

    Thanks as always,

    Jeannine Fallon
    PR Director, Edmunds.com
  • hungrywhalehungrywhale Member Posts: 83
    But I think it's terribly overpriced vs. the competition.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    thanks amigo. I thought maybe I wasn't making myself clear, so I kept restating my argument, but apparently I was, thanks for the confirmation.
    on to more interesting ES arguments.
    :)
    ~alpha
  • mjs4mjs4 Member Posts: 8
    This is all very interesting... I'm getting 21 mpg, mostly in the city. Maybe it's not that important to me . I just like the car . It's not a sports car ,but an entry level luxury car and it's all of that. It's dependability is outstanding and also great resale from what I've seen from past Lexus's. I have 1600 miles on the car now. I think it is real smooth and pretty quite. I'm sorry , but the Infinity does not compare in my book. Not nearly as quite. It is cheaper tho. I kinda like that L in my Lexus. I love to read this site. Everyone has an opinion and thats how it should be. If you do have complaints about your car , you should definately tell Lexus . That's the only way things will change. If WE don't tell them about our concerns they will never know. I recieved a survey from them the other day and told them I thought they should have made more cars that offered the upgrade to the ML without the nav. instead of having to special order them. Well have a good day and keep me smiling.......mike
  • clarkramclarkram Member Posts: 7
    Okay, I now have 750 miles on her, latest mileage info: average speed 50.4 mph, avg mileage 25.5 mpg. The best I've been able to get is about 26.7 doing about 65 mph. I think this is very good. Love the ride and looks. my 99 I30 avgs about 25 mpg in same driving conditions, although the I30 will get an honest 30mpg on road trips, non stop doing 75 mph with ac on. No buyers remorse here, I love the Lexus.
    Clark
  • kreativkreativ Member Posts: 299
    In answer to "Why pay $5k for the L on the hood?"

    The ES is priced higher than the I35, yet is outselling the I35 by more than double.
    If Infiniti made the I35 more appealing:
    1. They could raise the price to the ES level without fear of not being able to sell any cars.
    2. Lexus would lower the price of the ES to better compete, and we'd all win.

    I drove both when shopping for a new car.
    I35 had a power advantage. I liked the feel when I floored it. And I could've gotten the I35 for below invoice.

    ES had the advantage in: Luxury (higher quality leather and interior), noise isolation, ride quality (fully independent suspension, AVS option. I35 still uses outdated rear beam suspension), 5-speed automatic (vs. 4-speed in I35), reliability rating, design longevity (first year in new generation, will stay current for the 5-year design cycle), the design itself (the ES stands out, the I35 blends in), brand appeal, and supposedly better mileage (21/29 vs. I35's 20/26...can't determine true mileage in a test drive).

    I expect the next-generation I35 to be a great car. That's probably when Lexus will release the ES350 to keep pace.

    The upcoming Infiniti G35 looks to be a winner. It's the only Infiniti model so far that I would purchase over the Lexus equivalent (IS).
  • gambhirgambhir Member Posts: 64
    I think except for Kreativ, everyone else sidetracked the issue by entering into the famous comparison game- where is lenscap--our wise Oracle of Lexus:)
    again I adore my Lexus--I think the issue is they claimed a number-the reality fell far short of it
    and the car has worse mileage than my 2001 which I also owned so I can compare accurately.
    with premium gas I get avg of 19-20 with 65% highway-that is not what was claimed

    All I am saying is this may be consumer misleading case and maybe as consumers we can make a stronger case to lexus and have ourselves heard

    Lexus did not pay much attention to my claim and said I should wait and watch--For lower grades of fuel, no mileage impact-slight decrease

    So I bought the car, paid a damn good price for it-but my issue is just the principle of the matter
    How can you as a billion dollar ( I think!) corporation make a claim, boast total quality management and then fall so short of your claim
    So any car manufacturer ca start doing this and ethics will be at stake-you can lie about 0-60, slalom, etc
    What is the recourse

    what can we as current and potential consumers do to help each other as a group
    Let us address the issue at hand tahn digressing

    Lexus wants us to digress so we do not bother them
    Let us not fall in this trap and ask ourselves-if I am getting 20% less mileage than promised, did I not get misled
  • kreativkreativ Member Posts: 299
    I'm not able to accurately gauge mileage on my '02 ES yet (local only, low avg. MPH), but the most extreme MPG cases I've heard of seem to be from those who purchased their cars early on (10/01 production and earlier).

    I don't know if this means it only affects early production '02 ES or not.

    When was your car made? (It says on the sticker located on the driver's side door jam).
  • antiosamaantiosama Member Posts: 62
    Any good deals in the New England Region on 2002 ES300s? A friend of mine has been looking for a 2002 ES300. So far both dealers he went to are willing to give a discount of $0 off of MSRP. Would like to know if anyone has bought one in the Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island area for lower than MSRP. Dealer name, and salesperson contact info. would be appreciated.
  • mrrogersmrrogers Member Posts: 391
    Over in the Edmund's Townhall Maintenance & Repair section, there is a topic called "Engine Sludge?" Over the last several days, it appears that Toyota may be admitting a bit of a problem.
  • lenscaplenscap Member Posts: 854
    I've read before that the 1997-01 ES 300 shared about 15-20% of their parts with the Camry, not 60-70%.

    Also, the powertrain is different now since the ES 300 has a 5-speed and the Camry only a 4-speed. Further, on cars like mine with the AVS the suspensions are different (they may different without AVS but I'm not sure).

    Speaking of ads, Lexus actually ran one about 10 years ago that was great re: BMW. It said something like: "Owning a BMW is a once in a lifetime experience. For most owners, once is enough." The ad referred to the fact BMW had one of the lowest loyalty (repurchase rates) in the luxury car class, while Lexus was the highest.

    I'm not knocking BMWs. I think they're great for people who like sportier cars. But that ad had a fantastic headline.
  • toyo_ztoyo_z Member Posts: 47
    Had my 2002 ES300 for a couple of months now; it's been fantastic, until today.

    When I tried to start it this morning, I couldn't turn the ignition key. I jiggled the steering wheel, as the 'roadside assistance' folks suggested, but still, the ignition key wouldn't turn. Finally, after jiggling the wheel some more, it totally locked up. And i still couldn't turn the ignition key.

    I gave up. They are coming to tow the thing tomorrow morning. Not a good sign. In my 20+ years of car ownership, i've never had a problem like this before :-(
  • vmaturovmaturo Member Posts: 71
    Well I just pulled out the past four years of the April issue of Consumer Reports. It seems that the I35 has the better reliablity record(in the years that they are both included). It was better than the ES300 in 1998,1999 & 2001. It was not included in the results for 2000.(due to new model)

    I guess perception and reality aren't always the same.

    I wonder if that Toyota/Lexus engine sludge problem has anything to do with it???
  • djmarrdjmarr Member Posts: 3
    My factory warranty on my 98 ES will expire within a few months and I would like to hear opinions on whether I should purchase an extended warranty if I plan to keep the car for
    2-3 more years? They can be had for approx $800-1200 range. I have already had the
    A/C compressor replaced under warranty, speaking of which, the dealer put in a re-furbished
    unit...is this normal?
  • gambhirgambhir Member Posts: 64
    I had one of the earliest batch of cars made late Sep 2001 so perhaps that explains--lucky me:)
    well don't know what Could do unless it becomes a known issue
  • toyo_ztoyo_z Member Posts: 47
    See my post above about problems with the 2002's steering column locking.

    I had the car towed to my local lexus dealer. The techs were stumped, they've never seen anything like that before. It may be a design flaw.

    if anyone else has had the steering column lock up, and subsequently couldn't turn the ignition key, i'd like to hear about it. It looks like my car will be out of commission for a few days.

    As an aside, they gave us a 2001 ES300 as a loaner. There's no comparison between the two cars -- the new ES300 feels much more "luxurious", and a bit larger/boatier. I can see why old ES owners felt a bit perplexed by the new model. They are radically different machines.
  • bitnoj1bitnoj1 Member Posts: 17
    There are no less than eight lexus dealers in the Chicago, Il. area. Who's offering the best deals
    on the es300 in Chi? Should I wait until the 2003s arrive in showrooms to get a reasonable price on the 2002s? I consider a reasonable price as $500-$700 over invoice. This price is still $3500 more than the Acura TL which I'm also considering.
  • antiosamaantiosama Member Posts: 62
    bitnoi1,

    I don't think you will ever see a ES300 for $500 over invoice, except maybe in it's final year of production. Is Acura going to sell you a 3.2TL for $500 over invoice? I doubt it.
  • modvptnlmodvptnl Member Posts: 1,352
    Got my ES for a $1000 over(I know that's not 500) and could have got a CL S with NAV for $100 over.
  • antiosamaantiosama Member Posts: 62
    modvptnl, I doubt you have a 2002 ES300.
    And the CL-S is different from the TL. The CL has been a sales dud(compared to what Acura's projections were).
  • kreativkreativ Member Posts: 299
    antiosama - modvptnl does have an '02 ES...the fully loaded one, meaning he got quite a few $$$ off MSRP. But he did have an insider contact with a SoCal dealership. hk2la got the mid-level package and also got $1000 over invoice at a SoCal dealership, without any special contact. This kind of pricing applies only to southern California though (or any other area where there's strong competition amongst dealerships)

    gambhir - maybe it's just because those who got the car earlier have driven more miles and have been able to better determine that mileage does stink with this car. But for what it's worth, I do remember someone posting here who said a Lexus service tech told them that bad gas mileage was a known problem with the (earlier?) ES.
  • lexus1lexus1 Member Posts: 14
    Im getting a bit more than tired of hearing about the great deals on ES 300 in S. California. While you guys are getting 1-2k over invoice, most of the rest of us are getting $500-1000 under MSRP! Things are still very tight in the Southwest as you can see by plugging in a Texas/LA/OK zip code into Edmunds market calculator. My local Lexus dealers each (4 of them) get 60 ES300s a month and more than 45 are pre-sold!
  • antiosamaantiosama Member Posts: 62
    OH, South Cali. Out East we don't have those deals. A friend has been searching for about 2 weeks in Mass. and has gotten -zero- off of MSRP so far. He's still looking though.

    $1K over on a 2002 is fabulous.

    I wonder if they'll ship a car to Mass.
  • kreativkreativ Member Posts: 299
    If coming to southern California to buy the ES means saving a few thousand and being able to get the color/config you want a lot faster, it might not be a bad idea to fly out here and arrange to have the car shipped back home. If you don't live too far away, then you can drive it back.

    Shipping the car on a flatbed usually runs from $500 to $1000. My friend who shipped his car coast to coast said it cost him $1000.

    And if you're from one of those snowy areas, you get a short vacation in sunny southern California. I was out playing golf in 76 degree weather today.

    Search for dealers in southern California through lexus.com and deal exclusively through the Internet/phone.
    What I would not do is to buy the car and have it shipped without having inspected it first.
  • lexus1lexus1 Member Posts: 14
    I've just purchased a 02 ES300 Starlight Pearl (pick it up Friday) and was wondering what the salesman's cut of the deal is. Here, I was lucky to get $500 off list! So the margin is over $4,000. What part of that goes to my salesman?
  • syluisylui Member Posts: 5
    I was told by my Salesman that Starlight Pearl has already dropped out from production as this color is very close to M. Silver and Alabaster. About the deal, my quote is $34887.26 including premium package, VSC; heated seat, xenon hi-light, wood steeling wheel, trunk mat and wheel locks. I figured is about $1,400 off from MSRP. Not too good or bad.
This discussion has been closed.