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Lexus ES 300/ES 330
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Comments
That being said, the Camry is a great car for its market. But I did not want to buy a $31,000 Camry when I could get an ES for a few thousand more.
The ES is NOT a sports luxury sedan. If you want one, I would buy an i35 or G35. They are both excellent cars with 255-260 hp, but they just lack the refinement of the ES. You can probably get a great deal on the i35 as it is being eclipsed by the G and its rwd platform. (I have not driven the TL or the 3 series lately so I cannot make a fair comparison.)
IMHO, this product doesn't work very well for it's intended purpose, i.e. scratch removal on metal surfaces. But it worked great for me on the ES300's wood surfaces.
Personally, I wouldn't let them "fix" the problem for you. They could get the scratches out as long as they're not too deep, but they're not going to care how much of the clear over-layer they're removing. As long as they remove enough so that the scratches and swirl marks "disappear" and that you're happy visually with it. And I doubt you'd want that.
Summing up, it really depends on what kind of ride a person desires most.
(fully equipped) Camry and the ES one after the other.
Do you think she would "really" notice the difference? Could she tell that the ES had the 5-speed and "evs" whatever that is?
That one feels more quiet than the other?
Maybe it's just the Lexus badging that makes you think so. Because she'd rather tell her friends
and neighbors that "yes" I drive a Lexus rather
than a Toyota Camry.
Car companies are clever indeed in their marketing ploys and strategies.
You should know the car without a special order is built in basically two configuration. One without the Nav/ML Audio and one with. In all cases the car comes with leather. The MSRP is about 34,xxx(No Nav/ML) or about 38,xxxx(no VSC) to a little over 39K(with VSC).
Telling between a Camry and an '02 ES blindfolded is too easy.
But why would you think of going blindfolded when the interior quality, luxury, and visual appeal help set the two apart?
It's like telling someone to not consider the power of the engine in a Porsche to make a comparison.
And yes, there certainly is a price to pay for the name brand alone...which applies to any luxury brand.
Better yet, instead of starting crap with people who overwhelmingly love their cars, why don't you blindfold your wife and compare the BMW to the much less expensive Japanese sport sedans and let us know those results.
I find it amusing that you tried to rattle the cage with the ES's lack of performance....the owners here agreed with you. Than you go after the price difference....think it was shown there is some extra content for the extra 6K (not the 15K like someone mistakingly(?) reported.
Now it's a challenge that lexus owners couldn't tell the diff blindfolded between an ES and Camry.
You sir are here for one reason.....and it's called being a troll.
Go buy the BMW, it's what floats your boat.
I test drove the two (basic ES, loaded Camry), back to back, and your supposition is completely ludicrous.
1. I am not married (have a girlfriend though), so nobody drives my car but me. Therefore, the only person that cares whether or not it's a Lexus is me.
2. I've driven the new Camry, and there is a difference. In particular, there is a huge difference with the AVS option, especially when it is set on the "sport" mode.
3. Why did I but the Lexus over the Camry? Here are just a few reasons:
- I much prefer the outside styling
- The Lexus interior in world's ahead of the Camry's in look and feel
- I wanted HID headlights
- Having owned a Lexus before, I love the service and treatment at the dealer
- I like being able to get a loaner car (a Lexus no less) for items as simple as an oil change so my schedule is not disrupted
I could go on, buy suffice it to say those are the major reasons.
4. As far as saying I drive a Lexus vs. any other car, I could really care less. I am not like that and really don't like people who are. You are dead wrong in inferring I would rather drive a Lexus than a Camry. That had NOTHING to do with my purchase. My life does not center around impressing others.
5. You're looking as the car as a nicer Camry. However, many people see it as a bargain compared to other luxury cars. My girlfriend's father has a 2001 BMW 740iL, and he actually likes my car better when the price is taken into consideration. Nicer interior, better NAV, better stereo, better dealer service, better build quality, etc. I'm not saying the ES 300 compares to a 740iL, but you get my point.
Anyway, I could go on, but suffice it to say I love my car, it was right for me, and that's that. If you don't like the car, that's fine too. But the car is selling well enough to prove that Lexus has hit the target with this car.
For one, I can see out just fine. Second, the seating position, with the high dash, imparts a more luxurious feel. Cheaper cars (and this is not a knock on any car) typically have lower cowls and superior visibility.
It may all be what you're used to. When I get an RX 300 for a loaner I'm thinking how can someone drive this? But if I had one for a while I'd get used to it.
~alpha
Revisions added to the 2000-01 models included:
1. Wood trim on the entire center dashboard
2. Revised tailights w/clear turn indicators
3. ES 300 badge moved from the trunklid to the taillight
4. Revised front bumper and grille
5. Newly optional HID headlights; if the car has them the headlight cluster is different than non-HID cars
6. Newly optional 16" wheels with a design different from the 15"
7. New-style rear seat headrests
There may have been more minor stuff but these changes were the more noticeable ones.
Hope this helps.
As for mileage, I've only driven about 350 miles with the 2002, so I can't comment on that yet. I never calcualted the mileage with my 1995, but I think it was around 20 in mostly stop-and-go driving.
I'm not sure about the mileage of the 5-speed vs. 4-speed, but the new transmission is smoother.
As for the other cars you're looking at, here's what I think (just one man's opinion):
1. Acura TL is a great car that is sportier than the Lexus and a little less expensive. My only hesitation would be that the car will be redesigned in a year or two. If that does not bother you this is a great car.
2. I would not buy an Infiniti I35. First, the car is being dropped in a year or two. Infiniti even states in their full-line brochure that all their cars in the future will be RWD or AWD, meaning the I35 is gone. That will kill the resale value. Second, I am just not impressed by this car. Remember, it was designed and built when Nissan was in a financial crisis, and the cost cutting is evident. Sales numbers give a good indication of what the market thinks of a car, and the I35 doesn't sell nearly as well as the ES 300 or TL.
3. I also love the Toyota Camry. The only thing you're giving up is the luxury-division image and service. If this is okay with you, you can't go wrong here.
4. The 2003 Accord will no doubt be a great car and probably sportier than the Camry. As with the Camry, if you're okay with the non-luxury dealer this is one of the best cars you can buy.
From a mileage standpoint all of the above cars should be close to each other. It just depends what excites you.
Good luck and let me know if you have any other questions.
In response to an earlier post about driver position, I don't find it to be a problem myself. In fact, I find it a lot better than that of Acura TL. It provides ample headroom for a 6' guy like me.
This is my first Lexus, and so far I'm pretty impressed with the Lexus services.
IMO the Lexus service department gives excellent service much better than the Toyota dealer with a previous Camry.
Here is my dilemma: I prefer the ES300 but that will run, at least for now, around 35K and will include higher maintenance and higher insurance costs than the TL. The TL will cost approx. 29K, has slightly lower insurance and maintenance costs but the warranty is only 4/4 whereas the ES300 has 4/6.
Then the new Accord comes out in the fall of this year which certainly will be a worthwhile choice too since it will probably be better than the current Accord, which is still a fine automobile. Any opinions?
I'm getting pretty lame MPG...15.x, at an avg. MPH a little under 20MPH. No, I don't drive like an old fogie. It's just been my local around-town car.
In the regular 40%city/60%hwy commute of mine, my 2000 TL returns 22-25mpg depending on how aggressive I was with the throttle. In all-highway trips with speeds ranging from 65-90mph, the car nets around 32mpg. On a certain all-highway trip with the speed kept at a steady 70mph (which I rarely do), the car returned 36mpg,which is phenomenal for such a large car with a powerful V6 engine.
Later...AH
Document Preparation Fee (not a governmental fee): $45
State fees (In Cali, the dealer takes care of registering the car. Plates are sent by mail to the car owner.) -
License Fees: $260
California Tire Fee: $5
My window sticker shows a "Delivery, Processing, and Handling fee" of $575, but that is almost always assumed to be included in the negotiated price of the vehicle (since it's part of the "sticker price"). If you settle on a price and then they tack on a "processing fee", that's just their way of getting some more money out of you.
All my friends love it. Wife is very happy, but me - not so much. I wish I could return the damn thing.
Not as quiet as I originally thought when I test drove it 3 times 3 weeks ago. The tires on my car is Michelin xv4 - same as the accord coupe I traded in. These tires are noisy!
Also noticed some rattles on the passenger side on some roads - roads that aren't even that rough. Sort of disappointed to hear 1 hour after picking up vehicle.
I am not happy at all with the transmission. Acceleration is weak and the shifting is not smooth. Even though this car has 10 more horses than my previous accord, it does not have the same passing power as the accord - takes too long to downshift and can feel it shifting. Not quick off the line either.
Another thing - steering wheel. The reset and mode buttons are useless. Why couldn't they just make it a skip and volume buttons for the cd?
In retrospect, I decided to buy this car because IMHO, it is the best in the entry-level luxury class. Acura TL: rattles; Infiniti: feels cheap; Benz and BMW: overpriced. I settled for the es300 because I can't afford a BMW 330xi (325xi is underpowered).
Sorry for the long post... I had to vent.
Today, at an independent garage, while in for my NY state inspection, I'm told the same wheel bearing is 'shot'. There was some noticeable 'left to right wiggle' or play in the wheel.
I called the local Lexus dealer and have an appointment @ 11 A.M. tomorrow (Tuesday). I told the service manager about the recent repair and felt that a bearing should last longer then 17,500 miles and some 13 months. Normal warranty on this part, I'm told, is 12 months/12,000 miles. As an added twist, my 3 yr/100,000 mile warranty expired about a month ago. Talk about timing. Assuming the bearing needs replacing, I was told by the service manager that they would 'work out a deal'. To you Lexus experts out there, what do you think an equitable deal should be? A no charge replacement, which is what I'm obviously hoping for; or,some sort of shared cost responsibility?
Finally, what would would cause 2 bearings on the same wheel to go bad? I'm told that this is very unusual.
My wife and I really struggled between the Acura TL (which is a very fine car), the Mercedes C320 (which is also a fine car, but pricer). In the end the Lexus won us over, and we just couldn't justify picking the two other cars over it. Here are my impressions:
Ride: Smooth as my other car the LS400. I went for the AVS suspension, and that's a real treat. Dial in sport, and it handles equal to the Acura TL, set to comfort, and its got the ride of the LS400. So smooth, you almost seeks out bumps to drive over just to feel the car soak them up. The handling is there, especially in sport mode, but this is no sport sedan and does not like to be rushed.
Acceleration: Average, I guess I'm use to the power surge in my LS400, but this is no V8. After driving the car for awhile, I realize that it has plenty of power, it just doesn't seem to go very fast because its so smooth. Mash the gas pedal, and you're at 40 so smoothly. I only wish the car had alittle more power for highspeed highway passing.
Transmission: A slight disappointment. The 5-speed is great to have for a smooth quiet ride with very good fuel economy (I've gotten average 25mpg in a mixed city/highway travel). Upshifts are smooth and go unnoticed. Come out of a turn, and accelerate and the car hestitates before downshifting. You really need to dip into the pedal to create a downshift. It's nothing major, and really my only quibble with the car.
Interior: Creamy, buttery leather (I've only felt leather better in the highest end Jaguars). Beautiful wood finish throughout the interior and steering wheel. I really like the combination of the dark exterior with the ivory interior. Also, I've noticed that Lexus has included leather on all door panels and door handles (a nice touch not seen in competition). The navigation system is a real toy, and seems to draw the most attention from guests. The 3D instrument gauges are a Lexus trademark, and serve the car well, however they slightly wash out with polarized sunglasses.
Stereo: If you are considering purchasing this vehicle, the Mark Levinson system is a must! It beats out the Nakamichi in the previous LS400. I honestly, am whipping out old CD's to listen to in the system, just to hear new instruments and vocal quality that have not been heard (not even in my Bose Acoutimass home unit!). ML is the best audio system on the market, period.
Dealership: The nicest and most professional sales staff. Lexus goes above and beyond the call of duty. My wife received a bouquet of flowers today thanking us for the purchase, you just can't beat Lexus customer service.
Overall, I love the car if you haven't already figured out. The funny thing is that the car is for my wife! That means I won't be driving it much Maybe she'll let me drive it, and she can have my LS400. I know I'm praising the Lexus, but I'm now the converted, do yourself a favor if considering this market, and test drive the car for yourself, if you're like me...you'll be very satisfied.
-Tom
Please keep us informed as to mpg, problems, etc. as the miles roll on. Where do you live? Thanks again for sharing your buying experience.