Lexus ES 300/ES 330

cwdavis1 · April 2002

Thanks for that fine writeup. It is what I needed to hear to make my final decision. I have been vacillating between the Infiniti G-35 (which is loaded with power but less refined) and the ES 300 which I have been very impressed with but it is more expensive. I can get a loaded G-35 with Nav. for about 34K and it sounds like a similarly equipped ES 300 would run $37K.

kreativ · April 2002

Have you driven both the G35 and ES300 already? The rides are quite different between these two cars. The G35 has more of an IS-like feel to it (in quality of ride and interior appointments), which is what most ES buyers don't want.

lenscap · April 2002

kreativ makes an excellent point about the G35 vs. ES 300.

One reason I'd take the ES 300 over the G35 is the interior. I'm in no way knocking the G35 as it seems like a great car for those who want a sportier ride.

But most of my driving is done around town, not the race track. And the ES 300 interior is simply a treat to be in. The G35's interior, on the other hand, seems no different than many other cars.

The May Car & Driver tests the G35, and they question the interior also. They say "the whole interior is odd" with some cheap parts. They finish by saying the interior "takes not one styling cue from the accepted Euro-conservative idea of a sport-luxury interior."

Again, I don't want to take anything away from the G35 because it has a different mission than the ES 300. But the G35 interior reminds me of my old Honda Prelude with leather added, whereas the ES 300 makes me feel like I'm in an LS 430.

scoob2002 · April 2002

Hi I'm in the market for an ES300 within the next few weeks. What kind of deals are people getting in Houston? They don't seem to be willing to budge past the MSRP.
I even emailed Park Plaza Lexus in Dallas and may have to resort to that...

Thanks

lenscap · April 2002

While sales numbers do not mean much to a person buying a car, and many factors affect sales (such as production rates), it is interesting to note how well the new ES 300 is selling. The numbers for March, along with some other similarly-priced cars:

6440 - Lexus ES 300
5918 - Acura TL
5831 - Mercedes C-Class (includes wagons and coupes)
5460 - BMW 3-Series (sedans only; 325i/325xi/330i/330xi)
4037 - Audi A4
2730 - Infiniti I35
2147 - Infiniti G35 (on sale as of 3/11)
2003 - Audi A6

The buying public seems to really like the ES 300.

cwdavis1 · April 2002

First, thanks lenscap and kreativ for your comments. I have test driven both the G-35 and Lexus extensively and every time I come out enjoying the Lexus. So today I went to my local dealer to "deal" and I wanted to order the Blue Onyx Pearl with light charcoal interior. They said they can get black or ivory leather but they still have someone waiting over 6 months for a blue with the light charcoal. What gives here? Has anyone received a blue onyx with light charcoal? I do want one loaded with Nav and ML sound and they did offer to give me $3K off sticker but they said they just are not getting any in stock with the light charcoal and blue ext. Your thoughts please. Thanks.

modvptnl · April 2002

Your post sounds exactly like my experience....even the same color!!! I did get the rear shade, though.

Unlike some people that have sought out units without the NAV, I insisted on it. Not only is it a cool conversation piece but it has actually found destinations for us that we may still be looking for..j/k!!!

Except for a few minor annoyances, the wife and I still enjoy the ES.

Glad you like yours.

kreativ · April 2002

Is the ABS "clunk" still getting on your nerves?

lenscap · April 2002

The reason the dealer is telling you a six month wait is that is based on the cars he expects to be in his allocation.

If the blue/grey combo is rare, what you need to do is special order your car. The order is customized the way you want and sent to the zone manager and then on to Japan. The car is made specifically for you and put into your dealer's allocation. The dealer will ask for either a $500 or $1000 deposit.

I did this with my car because I wanted the AVS and they do not make that option available in my area. The process takes anywhere from 90-120 days. I got my car in about 100 days.

Hope this helps. Good luck.

taralc · April 2002

Hi, I have a 2001 Lexus ES300 and I noticed that when I drive for long periods of time and then I brake there is somewhat of a grinding sound, my friend has a 2001 GS 300 and his brakes are the same way....they grind...dealer said that it was "normal" ....anyone else experience this??

modvptnl · April 2002

Kevin, yea, it bothers me. I also complained about a "slight" wind noise at the B pillar. The tech says it's normal and I'll concede since the car is so quiet otherwise it may just be that I notice the little things.

When we got the 5000 mile service I distinctly told the appointment setter that I had the recalls. When I got there, the service writer had no clue and said they'd have to order the parts.

No big deal waiting for oil change but now I'll have to come back again.... THEN she finds the recall parts but has no courtesy car. I'm waiting over 2 hours...but at least it's done.

Right now I have a slight shimmy when braking hard.......My only guess is overtorqued wheels from the last service which included the tire rotation.

I think the main difference in Lexus ownership is the treatment and attitude of the personal. It is above reproach ...so far.

I was going to e-mail you, but while I got you here and you are the paint care guru....neighbors tree sapped the car!!! We've washed it numerous times and have tried prying off the hard stuff with fingernails but there's just too many "spots"
also tried the sap/bug remover to no avail. Any suggestions.

If anyone cares, I've been running mid-grade lately and cannot tell any seat of the pants performance difference.

kreativ · April 2002

Jack, I agree that the quietness of the car tends to exaggerate small noises. Right now, a ticking noise coming from somewhere left of the steering wheel when driving is really annoying me.

I'd find another service writer the next time you go and in the future. She doesn't sound like she has things under control. But I'm under the impression that you have enough mechanical skills to not have to go back to a Lexus dealer and pay their rip-off service prices.

I'm a little surprised a Lexus service center overtorqued your wheel bolts. Around here, they charge $40-50 for just a tire rotation. You'd think if they did one thing right, it'd be correctly torquing the wheel bolts. If you have a torque wrench handy, torque them to 76 ft-lb.

Mineral spirits or denatured alcohol works quite well to break up and dissolve the sap spots, when commercial sap/bug removers aren't effective. Hardened sap can scratch your paint, so be careful. Hand-rubbing the sap spots with mineral spirits or denatured alcohol should allow you to remove the sap without damaging the finish. If there is a large amount of sap on the car or the sap's been left sitting on the car for a long time, it can be a lot of work to remove.

After you're done, spot-wax the areas. Or if you haven't waxed the car yet, go with one of the polymer sealants such as Klasse. A two-step application should give you almost a year of protection, vs. a couple months with traditional waxes.

lenscap · April 2002

I used Zaino Bros on my car last weekend. After some rain and parking under a tree with sap, I can tell you everything just seems to glide right off. It's my first experience with the product but it seems to be far better than the Zymol I used on my previous Lexus.

kreativ, have you ever used Zaino?

kreativ · April 2002

Zaino is good too. Klasse and Zaino are both polymer sealants, which means they'll provide better and longer protection than traditional waxes. It's really a toss up as to which one you go with, and some tend to think one or the other gives certain car colors a better look. Most important is in how you apply it. Following the directions on the Zaino web site whether you use Zaino or Klasse will get you the best results. For Klasse, you would ignore the Zaino-specific directions such as the use of Z-1 as a pre-spray. All the general advice applies, except for the part about washing the car with Dawn detergent to remove previous waxes (polymer sealant needs to bond with the paint surface). Alkaline products such as Dawn harm the plasticizers in the clear coat if used excessively, which will lead to a dull-looking finish. If you use the Klasse 2-step system, the 1st step has non-abrasive cleaners that removes any previous wax on the finish, thus negating the need for a Dawn wash. I tend to think of Klasse as the simpler of the two to use.

Many detailers think of Zymol as overpriced junk.

If you have a beater car that hasn't had a properly maintained finish, try NuFinish. It's also a polymer sealant, and is pretty abrasive so it'd clean the paint on a beater car quite well. I wouldn't use this product on a new Lexus or one that has had the finish well maintained.

laysmackdown · April 2002

Just left the NY Auto Show and the ES WAS the show to me! What an interior! AMAZING! The NAV display is so trick (should close a few deals with the ladies!), and the appointments are SO far ahead of the competition. It's just like an LS430 for $35k. The only thing missing is the power tilt/telescoping wheel. The rear end and front need a facelift, but once you sit inside, everything else is like a Chevy Cavalier in comparison!

laysmackdown · April 2002

Last year the Acura TL outsold the ES EASILY! 2 to 1! After 3 months this year, the more expensive ES has a 15% lead on the TL for the year! Talk about problem solved! Imagine if they put that new 3.3V6 in next year, and refine the styling in 2004! The car would be unbeatable!

kreativ · April 2002

The end of a design generation usually has the worst sales (2001 ES); The beginning of a new design generation usually has the best sales (2002 ES). I may be wrong, but the TL is closer to the end of the current design generation than the beginning.

They better not put that 3.3V6 in next year, because I wouldn't have minded waiting a year to have that engine instead.

I'm guessing it won't be for another 2-3 years until the ES330 comes out.

laysmackdown · April 2002

After the spring release of the new GS and RX.

orkinp · April 2002

Looking for the ES300 with just about all options, about $39,000 msrp. So far with $3500 drive off on a 36month lease, one dealer went from $600/mth to $500!! But this is same price as Acura RL-a $45000+ car! Just seems a bit pricey for the car. I believe the dealer is higher than retail. I DO like the car, but I DON'T like to get robbed. Anyone know of any good leasing prices (reliable dealers) in the Boston Mass. area? It would be much appreciated.

fredvh · April 2002

Here is a press release from Toyota:

http://pressroom.toyota.com/photo_library/display_release.html?id=20020403

It sounds like this applies to the new 2002 ES300 as well.

I remember reading several weeks ago a report from an engineer or a ASE certified mechanic of what he thought was the technical problem with the engines in question regarding the so-called "sludge" issue. He stated that there was an engineering change in the engine starting with 1997. It might have had to do when they went to certify their engines for the low emissions standard. Does anyone remember that and maybe that person could repeat his explanation for the change in the engine design and explain it to us. Was there, in fact, an engine design change in 1997? If so, has that design been changed?

jbrettz · April 2002

Just ordered the ES 300, don't know when it will arrive, the dealer said he might find out on Friday. The dealers get their allocations every other Friday. My wife ordered the car with the Nav system, the dealer thought she might receive the car quicker, as a lot of people don't want to pay the extra $ for the NAV system. We'll see. The list price was $38,843, we only have 2 Lexus dealers, one dealer offered (after a lot of hair pulling) $36,500 with $450 worth of service coupons and the other dealer came in at $36,000,(telling my wife that was the deal of the year on a Lexus) Both of their initial offers were $37,500. I don't believe they are use to people negotiating a lot. The one sales person had quite a few of thankyou notes from customers telling him how easy the car purchase was. Apparently they take the first offer from the salesman?????.

sliang · April 2002

rtorreca,

You bought the 02 ES300, but you wished you could return it because it does not fulfill your expectations on the car.

Here is my 2 cents,

"Not as quiet as I originally thought when I test drove it 3 times 3 weeks ago. The tires on my car is Michelin xv4"

Yes, the tires do make difference. My 02 ES came with Toyo J33 V rated summer tires, comparing to my Acura RL who also has the Michelin MXV4 energy tires, the ES is much quieter car. But the Toyo tires may not have better traction than the Michelin in the rain/snow, the thread wear rating is only 200 on Toyo v.s. 400 on the Michelin. I definitely will switch to a better tires after the Toyo tires are wear out. I heard that Yokohama AVS db is pretty good.

"Also noticed some rattles on the passenger side on some roads - roads that aren't even that rough. Sort of disappointed to hear 1 hour after picking up vehicle."

I think all car including M-B and BMW make little noise or rattles. It may be because you expected Lexus to be an extreme quiet car, any noticeable rattles will be treated as unacceptable in the ES. IMO, if you can not tolerate the rattles, bring the car to your dealer and have them fix it. In my case, I simply live with it because I always enjoy the M-L stereo instead of paying attention on any other noises.

"I am not happy at all with the transmission. Acceleration is weak and the shifting is not smooth."

The 5 speed new transmission does take time to smooth out. When I started driving my new ES, I was just like you, not impressed by the new transmission at all. As you said, I could feel the shifting and the downshift was slow. The passing power was not that good either. Now I have about 3500 miles on it, the transmission does feel smoother, although I still can feel the shifting from the first to the second gear, but it is smooth beyond that. The passing power is much better now than it was new.

I think you purchased a very fine car, and you will find you did a good choice when time goes by. By the way, I was also thinking about BMWs, but the reliability issues scared me away.

sliang · April 2002

Has anyone noticed that all four wheels of the 02' ES do not have the small metal block for balancing the wheels? My other cars all have the metal thing on each of the four wheels since new. I am wondering how Lexus is going to balance the wheels if needed.

kreativ · April 2002

I heard that enough people have complained about the '02 ES' 5-speed transmission for Lexus to acknowledge it and work on a fix (if any).

I noticed there isn't a ECT Normal/Power switch as in my other Lexus. Must have something to do with the auto-adapting "intelligent" transmission in the ES. Doesn't really suit someone who likes to drive aggresively in some conditions and non-agressively in others though.

mannymoe · April 2002

I have had my 2002 ES for about 5 months and have almost 11k miles on it. I have leased it for 12k per year; uh oh! This car is so wonderful that I don't use my company car at all.

Anyway, I am thinking of sporting up the exterior with the spoiler that is now available thru the dealership. Does anyone have any photo's of the installed spoiler? My car is blue onyx pearl and I would really like to see an example before I pay $600 for the spoiler and installation thru my dealer (Metro Lexus in Cleveland). Some after market shops have painted spoilers available for about $300, but I want the installation to be proper so I may pay a little more to go thru Mother Lexus.

FYI, I am getting about 25 miles per gallon with a 50/50 mix of city/highway. I have only used 87 octane so far and, based on the recent gas price surge ($1.48 for 87 today), will continue to do do. This car is a wonderful bargain at the MSRP. I have partners who own all of the competitors, and a 5 series really doesn't even compare with this car (a 3 series isn't even worth mentioning vs. the ES, think IS).

I hope everyone who makes the jump to this car is as pleased as I am after 11k miles.

tmart · April 2002

The wheel weights for balancing go on the inside of the wheel. Tmart

cwdavis1 · April 2002

Glad to hear you are enjoying your car. I am in the "hunt" for a blue onyx but with light charcoal int. (light grey) but am not having any success. Have emailed 40 dealers in the midwest and nothing positive. Most get it with black or ivory. What do you have? Isn't the ivory more like a tan? Thanks. Craig

kreativ · April 2002

You won't find a blue onyx/light charcoal on any of the dealer lots. The interior colors specified for blue onyx is either black or ivory. You can see which interior colors are matched with each exterior color by looking in the ES brochure.

You may be able to special order a blue onyx/light charcoal, which would take 3-4 months max.

jkim98 · April 2002

According to the Lexus dealer in San Francisco, only 3% of the interiors are in light charcoal.

I don't know if he was telling the truth since I wanted the light charcoal and they didn't have any.

rebelsk · April 2002

I was thinking of trying Zaino wax. It sounds like a two step process where you have to put on the cleaner first and then the wax. How easy is the wax ro put on as well as remove and how good is the shine. Is it better than Meguiars which is what I have been using? Thanks Stephen

trublu00 · April 2002

I have been using Zaino for over a year and have approximately 8 coats on my gold '00. It looks great, even when it is dirty. It is so incredibly easy to use and smells great. The first coat "can" be a 2-step process (I understand that there is a new formula that combines the 2 steps into 1). Neither step is hard at all. There is no white residue. It is the greatest and it can turn you into a wax fanatic like me. BTW I loaned my Zaino to my neighbor with a 3 year old white car, never waxed. She Zainoed and the car looks showroom new. She had no problem and she is 62 years old.

cwdavis1 · April 2002

According to the brochure I have, Blue onyx comes with "black, ivory or light charcoal" interior but so few actually get ordered that way that I believe the 3% quoted by jkim98 is probably accurate. (I even called Lexus and discovered that in the midwest, only 3 were delivered---among 40+dealers during the month of March!!) So I may just switch to Silver with the light charcoal. Hopefully that will not be hard to locate. Thanks for all your comments.

tmart · April 2002

By all means go with the Zaino. You won't disappointed. As Trublu00 mentioned, it is easy to apply and easier to remove, almost like dusting, no rubbing. They now make a ZFX additive which turns it into a one step process. However, the two step process is no hard.

kreativ · April 2002

Silver with light charcoal I hear is the most popular color option. Which made it hard to get last year since so many people were pre-ordering the ones coming into dealers weeks in advance. But I'm sure they stepped up production on those and they should be plentiful.

Sorry, I made a wrong assumption about the interior color choices for blue onyx. If you don't mind waiting 3 months, you could always special order the car. That way, you could also configure all the options the way you like it, not the way they're pre-packaged. And it beats waiting around for a blue onyx/light charcoal to show up at one of your local dealers, if ever.

rebelsk · April 2002

After you put the first coat of wax on , how long do you have to wait before you add additional coats. Thanks

tmart · April 2002

If you use ZFX, you can apply the second and a third one as soon as the prior one has been wiped off. If using Z1 and Z2, the Z2 is applied as soon as the Z1 has been applied. Do not wait for the Z1 to haze. After the Z1/Z2 hazes, the time for this depends on the temp and humidity, and it's wiped off, you should wait a minimum of 24 hours before applying the second coat of Z2 (no more Z1). Be sure to wash the car first with regular Dawn to remove the old wax. Tmart

lexus1 · April 2002

I bought my ES about 6 weeks ago from Westside Lexusin Houston. The cars are flying off the lots in Houston, so no (or meager) deals to be had. However, they did throw in window tint and pinstripe. At Westside, the first 2 years of maintenance are FREE, so you must add up the $60 oil changes to really understand what your price is. The salesman said it was worth about $2000.

micalene · April 2002

micalene · April 2002

Some time ago there were some comments re the lack of wood trim surrounding the window and door lock switches in the new models.Has anyone located these items in aftermarket sources? I,ve called Exotic wood dashes and gone into their web as they suggested, but only found complete kits(up thru 2001 models).Are they available anywhere?

kiiwii · April 2002

I'm curious to know if they are asking for MSRP or below MSRP + all the extra stuff. Thanks.

lexus1 · April 2002

Houston dealers are still asking MSRP but they will throw in the tint and stripe. The free 2-year service is only available at the dealer from which you bought the car and is available whether or not you paid list.

rtorreca · April 2002

I've had my 2002 es300 for 9 days now and the smell of leather is fading. I was hoping the smell would last a few weeks. Anybody know how best to make it last?

justfind6 · April 2002

How to keep your leather smell: Go to Needless Markup (aka Neiman Marcus) Last Call and get yourself a nice leather jacket marked down 80%. That's what I did last October, and my '96 ES 300 still smells like new when I bring that jacket along

kiiwii · April 2002

tmart · April 2002

Get some of Zaino's Leather in a Bottle. Tmart

kreativ · April 2002

The ES330 (ES with larger 3.3L engine) looks like it will be introduced in 2005. This is based off of the timeline for the current 3.0L engine ending in 2004.

lenscap · April 2002

I've been away for a few days, but wanted to get back to rebelsk on Zaino polish (even though others responded).

The polish goes on and off very easy. Plus, with the new ZFX (drops that are added to the polish), the process is just one easy step. I did my whole car in about one hour.

The shine is great, and nothing seems to stick to the car (rain, bird droppings, etc.).

By the way, while washing my car I saw first-hand the water-repellent coating put on the two front side windows. The water beads much more than on the rear windows. I wonder why Lexus didn't apply this treatment to all the windows.

fredvh · April 2002

Were there any changes scheduled in the ES300 for model years 2003 or 2004?
Is there anyone here concerned about the so-called "sludge problem" with the 3.0 engine? There has been a slight change in the valve cover by Lexus which makes oil vapor condense more efficiently than before.

lenscap · April 2002

No, there should not be any changes to the ES 300 for either 2003 or 2004. Typically Lexus gives their cars a mid-life update in year four (which would be 2005).

No, the sludge problem does not bother me at all. Toyota/Lexus has received 3,400 complaints to-date on the problem. If all of these complaints are legitimate, that represents less than .01% of Toyota/Lexus owners in the US (according to Automotive News). Further, Toyota/Lexus has said they will pay for any repair within eight years of ownership related to this.

kreativ · April 2002

I'd be a little worried if the car were going to someone who only changed their oil every 7500+ miles with no idea about the quality of the oil and oil filter (i.e. going to a gas station or quick lube place that uses a $1 oil filter and/or recycled motor oil).
Other than that, no.

I'm not sure whether this applies to the 2002 ES. I read in an article that this affects:
"Toyota models equipped with 3.3 million 1MZ V-6 and 5SFE inline 4 engines produced between July 1996 and July 2001"

When was the valve cover change made?

Lexus ES 300/ES 330

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